Posted on 01/26/2014 9:47:40 AM PST by EinNYC
Any FReepers have any idea why the radiators in my home are just sort of warm to the touch but not toasty? Or, even stone cold? Enough to cause 60-66 degree temps in the house, which is decidedly NOT comfortable? Is it bad valves? Bad boiler (but there's plenty of hot water from the sinks)? A bad pump? When the maintenance guys bleed the non-functioning radiators, hot water pours out, but the radiator was not radiating heat. Just as cold as stone.
The maintenance guys told me that a "second pump has just been installed", but I am still forced to wear double everything INSIDE my home. Everyone sits down to dinner wearing their winter hat, double everything and heavy socks, right?
Thanks for any information about what you think is ailing this non-functioning heating system.
Expansion tank may be waterlogged. Drain it down, purge the air, go from there.
CLR in the system won’t hurt either. You can add it via the expansion tank.
Three right on the money suggestions. A plumber could work through the problem pretty quickly. An apartment or condo maintenance guy, who knows.
To check for air and bleed the system, you need to find a bleed tap that is higher in elevation than the radiators. Open it up all the way to see if there is full water flow or air burping out. Do this with the thermostat set to max. This will also flag if the radiator tubes are plugged based on if a lot of water is flowing out or a trickle. Also, determine if the water is hot or not. The outlet side water needs to be greater than about 90F with full flow. I started to say the hotter the better for the radiator outlet water but the water will have temperature versus pressure ratings and I have no Idea what these are.
You probably don’t want to do this yourself because of liability if something fouls up. It’s not complicated troubleshooting but a misstep can cause some damage.
I don’t know what that is. I’m sure I do not have one.
I suggested this might be the problem. When the maintenance guy bleeds the radiator, steaming hot water spills into his bucket.
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The radiators have been bled like 3 times in the last 2 weeks. They work well for a day or two after the bleeding, then go cold.
it bleeds air out of the line when bubbles pass by it
this will explain them and what to look for to see if you have one, or as stated above there might be an inline expansion tank that’s full of water
I just called a heating/cooling guy. He told me, upon hearing of all the conditions and symptoms, that it sounded like a non-functioning pump. Funny, because they claim they just installed a second pump so that there are supposedly 2 pumps pumping hot water up now. For his time and kindness in answering my query, I volunteered to help his 5th grader with suggestions for a science fair project. That will be a pleasure for me to help out with!
It’s a co-op. I’m an owner. But I still wouldn’t put it past them to pull something. I wonder how much money they’ll save when I call the city tomorrow and get an inspector in. It’s a $500-1,000/day fine for each day the temp is not 68 degrees between the hours of 6 a.m. and 10 p.m., and 55 degrees for the nighttime.
All water contains various dissolved gasses. The amount of dissolved gas varies primarily with temperature. Cold water will hold more dissolved gas than hot water.
When you initially fill the system with cold water and begin to heat it, the dissolved gas leaves suspension and collects in the highest point in the system or sub-system. This is why radiators have vent taps. It allows you to remove air from that part of the heating sub-system (your radiator). Removing the air allows more hot water to come into contact with the sides of your radiator improving heat transfer from the boiler system to your room air.
No boiler is a perfect closed system. Water must be added from time to time introducing more dissolved gasses to the system. (Time to bleed the radiator.) This is why naval boilers have a De-airating Feed Tank. At very high pressure and temperature (1250 psi & 975F) any oxygen will cause the piping to rust, FAST.
The clanging you hear when the system turns on after being off for a while is due to thermal expansion of the piping. Hot pipes are bigger than cold pipes (a little). You might also hear a large pocket of air being displaced.
Hope this answers your question.
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It handles cat food very well.
Find the highest drain valve and let the air out of the system.
Sounds like you have an air leak into the system. If it is sealed, you should not get any air into the system. If air is leaking in without water getting out good luck finding it. You might want to get a expert who have been doing heating for 30 years.
All good answers here. If it a closed system there should be no build up in the pipes. Air in the lines or radiators is a very good possibility.
I think that balancing is more important for steam radiators than for hot water radiators. I am beginning to believe, from posts here, that there is a leak which is letting air into the lines.
We have a house built in 1907, we had a new boiler installed in 1982, but we don’t have an electrical pump.
In 2009 we started having the same kind of problem you described and it turned out that the automatic refill valve had failed and was not letting water into the system. See comment #32 for a wonderful explanation for why water needs to be added occasionally. We replaced the automatic refill valve and had no more problems with cold radiators. Our neighbors, who had a different radiator system put in at the same time we did, had the exact same problem and solution, the same year we did.
We had a problem with the blow-off valve continually dripping water, sometimes 2 gallons a day. We received lots of guesses until we happened upon a plumber who had done his journeymen training working with old residential boilers in the city. Even though the system was supposedly drained, the vapor lock was in the expansion tank and he removed the plug to better drain the expansion tank and then replaced the blow-off valve, problem solved.
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