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Will You Owe Debt After Death? The Medicaid Surprise
Townhall.com ^ | 1/27/2014 | Morgan Brittany

Posted on 01/27/2014 8:25:49 AM PST by rktman

This was not in the fine print of the Affordable Care Act (that no one read), and there was nothing in it that changed the existing law from 1993. The ACA however, did expand the number of people who are eligible for Medicaid, so now there are more people from the ages of 55 to 65 whose estates could be on the hook for Medicaid expenses after the beneficiary dies.

This sounds like a cash grab to me. Many states have not changed the law to limit the amount of expenses the government can claim are owed for Medicaid, but Oregon and Washington have issued emergency rule changes.In Washington it now says that the state can only recover the cost of nursing home care for the 55-65 age groups.Oregon followed this path as well.However there are 23 other states that have expanded Medicare under Obamacare and they have not changed their estate recovery policies. This could end up with the deceased person’s heirs losing homes, property and other assets.

(Excerpt) Read more at finance.townhall.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Health/Medicine; Society
KEYWORDS: medicaid; medicare; nocare; obamacare
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They'll keep you alive til the drain every red cent from you to pay back your costs. I guess you should dump all your assets before jumping in if you're under 55. I did hear/read somewhere that you can keep $2,000.00.
1 posted on 01/27/2014 8:25:49 AM PST by rktman
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To: rktman
Pretty soon we can all start calling each other "Comrade."
2 posted on 01/27/2014 8:29:11 AM PST by SkyPilot
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To: rktman

death tax via fiat


3 posted on 01/27/2014 8:31:38 AM PST by longtermmemmory (VOTE! http://www.senate.gov and http://www.house.gov)
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To: SkyPilot

You haven’t already? LOL!


4 posted on 01/27/2014 8:31:42 AM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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To: rktman

If someone is going to require me to pay their medical bills while they’re alive, I see no reason not to ask for repayment from their assets after they pass on.


5 posted on 01/27/2014 8:31:55 AM PST by nascarnation (I'm hiring Jack Palladino to investigate Baraq's golf scores.)
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To: rktman

Democrats, communists (redundant?), and union members (redundant again?) excepted, of course.


6 posted on 01/27/2014 8:33:06 AM PST by Da Coyote
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To: rktman

Great post. Thanks. Socialism Is Legal Plunder - Bastiat

TOTALITARIANCARE (force) is a Pandora’s Box of deception, lies, plunder & death…the likes of which this republic has never seen.

He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.

That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happines


7 posted on 01/27/2014 8:33:55 AM PST by PGalt
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To: rktman

This is what happens when you PASS THE BILL FIRST, then find out what is in it next


8 posted on 01/27/2014 8:34:28 AM PST by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period.)
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To: nascarnation

I agree — IF those people are given the option to have insurance and pay for it beforehand. In some of these cases, they are being forced on it, or their children are, etc.

This is really just a trick by Obama to increase the entitlement rolls to ‘beyond-reach’ proportions and finally force this country into abject socialism.


9 posted on 01/27/2014 8:34:29 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: rktman

DEPOPULATE socialists/totalitarians of both parties from the body politic.

CONFISCATE all of their assets for the unparalleled comprehensive damage they have done to the republic.


10 posted on 01/27/2014 8:35:34 AM PST by PGalt
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To: FReepers

Click The Pic To Donate

Support FR, Donate Monthly If You Can

11 posted on 01/27/2014 8:35:52 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: rktman
I have absolutely no trouble with people having to make choices. Why should a person get a government subsidy and not pay it back? These people won't lose their assets for being on Medicare, they'll lose them for having Medicare pay their bills.

After all, it isn't really accumulated wealth unless one has paid their bills along the way.

12 posted on 01/27/2014 8:37:21 AM PST by grania
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To: grania

I agree with you but the same principle should apply to wall street welfare crowd.


13 posted on 01/27/2014 8:43:45 AM PST by freedomfiter2 (Brutal acts of commission and yawning acts of omission both strengthen the hand of the devil.)
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To: rktman

“This could end up with the deceased person’s heirs losing homes, property and other assets.”

Heirs losing inheritance. Not their own assets they’ve earned.


14 posted on 01/27/2014 8:43:48 AM PST by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: grania

I think you mean medicaid”-that is what the masses think is “free” to everyone with no or little income, and obamacare has expanded that definition.


15 posted on 01/27/2014 8:46:54 AM PST by Texan5 (" You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: freedomfiter2
the same principle should apply to the wall street welfare crowd

Absolutely. One of the outrages is execs at failed banks and corporations that the fed bailed out were paid not just exhorbitant salaries, but bonuses too.

16 posted on 01/27/2014 8:49:05 AM PST by grania
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To: rktman

Doctor “I have some bad news, you only have six months to live, and you’ll owe taxes after you die.”

Patient: “But I can’t pay those taxes.”

Doctor: “Ok, I’ll give you another six months.”

-With apologies to Henny Youngman


17 posted on 01/27/2014 8:49:30 AM PST by dfwgator
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To: Texan5

I meant Medicaid....thanks for the correction.


18 posted on 01/27/2014 8:50:06 AM PST by grania
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To: rktman
They'll keep you alive til the drain every red cent from you to pay back your costs

If you incurr the costs why shouldn't you be liable for them? The alternative is that someone else pays for your health care through their taxes.

19 posted on 01/27/2014 8:51:00 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: longtermmemmory

Could someone explain: I thought you had to be penniless and have NO wealth other than the maximum $2,000 to qualify for Medicaid.


20 posted on 01/27/2014 8:56:26 AM PST by NotTallTex
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To: rktman

I’ll wait till I’m about dead, get a government backed reverse mortgage on my house, give the money to the kids and when I die, the government can repossess a house from a bank they backed the mortgage on.


21 posted on 01/27/2014 8:58:27 AM PST by maddog55
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To: rktman

In California they will recover anything they spent on welfare or medical.

I had a deadbeat cousin that my aunt wrote him out of her will because the state would have taken every cent.


22 posted on 01/27/2014 9:05:00 AM PST by dalereed
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To: NotTallTex
Could someone explain: I thought you had to be penniless and have NO wealth other than the maximum $2,000 to qualify for Medicaid.

Expanded Medicaid has no asset restrictions, just income which is below 138% FPL. A bunch of states decided not participate in expanded medicaid, so their rules are still in effect.

23 posted on 01/27/2014 9:05:07 AM PST by EVO X
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To: rktman

So, if you don’t want to give your estate to the government, you must not accept medicare. Or obamacare. Or any kind of care you don’t pay cash for.

Eventually they’ll close that loophole too because, in the end, you and your estate belong to them.


24 posted on 01/27/2014 9:05:39 AM PST by marron
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To: rktman

This article is not very clear - and indeed, Medicare/Medicaid rules are a hairball of confusing regulations.

I am going through this now with an elderly relative, who is in Medicare. Medicare insurance is covering hospital stays now, but when we reach the limit, we will need to draw down her assets. After those are gone - she will then be eligible for Medicaid.

The point of this article, I believe, is to point out that some elderly who have signed up for Obamacare may be forced into Medicaid, even if they did not intend it - meaning that the government will want all their assets before treating them. Surprise!


25 posted on 01/27/2014 9:06:02 AM PST by PGR88
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To: nascarnation

“If someone is going to require me to pay their medical bills while they’re alive, I see no reason not to ask for repayment from their assets after they pass on.”

Because the government is involved the price is inordinately inflated. In a recent example a private doctor charged $10 for a blood test to a cash patient. The same test done by a different office and charged to Medicare was $78. Not only will the service be slow and substandard, but it will be overly costly too.

The two forms of medicine that are forever decreasing in cost and increasing in quality are cosmetic surgery and Lasik surgery. Those are not reimbursed by any third party payer so the market is in force.


26 posted on 01/27/2014 9:06:21 AM PST by Gen.Blather
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To: rktman

This is why I intend to let nature take its course and refuse to be a burden on my family. I’ve worked hard my whole life and a big part of that is to secure a future for my family after I pass, especially my wife.

I saw my grandparents and father given a death sentence diagnosis then spend months and months letting them suck their insurance dry. How many times we heard “Medicare will cover “x” treatments” or “x” therapy or “x” tests, always the maximum number and no further. It was a system they had down pat to milk everyone as much as possible before they died, and I really want no part of it.

If they can give me quality of life then I will do it, but if they are only looking to give quantity then let me say goodbye, give me something to ease my going, and let life go on.

Of course people have said “You talk like that now, but wait until it ever really happens and see how you feel,” I really don’t think my mind will be changed though, I truly believe that when your time has come then bowing out gracefully and under your own terms is how it should be done.


27 posted on 01/27/2014 9:08:18 AM PST by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: grania

they don’t go after medicare, but they do medicaid (welfare medical care).


28 posted on 01/27/2014 9:08:39 AM PST by dalereed
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To: NotTallTex

Nope!In NJ you can even get a cheap auto insurance policy if you are on Medicaid. It only covers bodily injury. That means if you are the policy holder and have an accident the insurance will not pay toward damages of the auto you hit.That means the other guy is going to be left with out of pocket expenses for his damages with no way to recover.
This happened to my wife. Both the husband and wife that ran into my wife’s car were on Medicaid even though they were only in their thirties.(Still can’t figure how they qualified for Medicaid) We got stuck with a $500.00 bill .She was even driving on a suspended license and left the scene of the accident before the police showed up!
I’ll bet 95% of people who live in NJ don’t even know about this “special kind of insurance policy.


29 posted on 01/27/2014 9:10:35 AM PST by Renegade
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30 posted on 01/27/2014 9:13:16 AM PST by RedMDer (Happy with this, America? Make your voices heard. 2014 is just around the corner. ~ Sarah Palin)
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To: marron

You have no choice on not getting Medicare.At 65 you must be enrolled in it( if you are getting Social Security) even if you have adequate insurance to cover yourself without it!Then they automatically take your payment out of your Social Security check.Double whammy for you.


31 posted on 01/27/2014 9:14:47 AM PST by Renegade
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To: rktman
We have a relative who is on dialysis and in poverty and the treatments are being paid by Medicaid. Poverty through her own life's choices. Medicaid is in reality medical-welfare, with this exception.

The state considers it a loan by the taxpayers. Therefore, the state a put a leon on anything of value when she passes on.

They are interested in real property, coins or even collector cars. Incidental property of little value really doesn't concern them because of the hassle to turn that type of property into cash.

32 posted on 01/27/2014 9:17:00 AM PST by Parmy
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To: marron

Yup. That paid off mortgage you have sure feels good cause the house is now finally yours. Well, not so much. Stop payin’ the property tax and find out who the house belongs to. Hey, at least it lowers your monthly outflow right? :>)


33 posted on 01/27/2014 9:17:14 AM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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To: Abathar

I keep tellin’ my better half to just take me up in the mountains in some remote area and drop me off and let nature take her course. :>) She no likey that idea.


34 posted on 01/27/2014 9:19:39 AM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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To: nascarnation

nasc.... Some folks go through all sorts of legal manipulations to protect their assets. Will Zerocare make them invalid if heirs will still be responsible to pay off the incurred debt?

Can any other Freeper answer this question?

Thanks


35 posted on 01/27/2014 9:20:41 AM PST by willibeaux (de ole Korean War vet age 84)
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To: nascarnation
"If someone is going to require me to pay their medical bills while they’re alive, I see no reason not to ask for repayment from their assets after they pass on."

No one can indefinitely afford the govenrment-connected medical rackets and insurance middlemen of today and the near future. The U.S.A. cannot afford them.


36 posted on 01/27/2014 9:32:38 AM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: rktman

Some states have a “filial responsibility” law. A guy just a lost a case in Pennsylvania recently where he’s on the hook for his dad’s bills.


37 posted on 01/27/2014 9:33:40 AM PST by voicereason (The RNC is like the "One-night stand" you wish you could forget.)
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To: willibeaux
Under original Medicaid rules, to qualify you can have only a few exempt assets. These include a home if occupied by a spouse, a car for the spouse, personal belongings and household goods, burial space, life insurance if face value is 1500 dollars or less, and 1500 dollars cash. Nonexempt assets include all financial assets, real estate, more than one car, boats or other RV's, land contracts or mortgages.

Couples do have the provision for division of assets so that when one spouse goes on Medicaid the other is not impoverished. There are provisions for gifts also but they may delay or defer qualifying for Medicaid if they occur in the previous five years.

The best idea is to consult an attorney specializing in this field because penalties for ineligible distribution or hiding of assets can be severe.

The provision that seems to get people upset is that the home is not exempt if unoccupied by a spouse or the recipient is not returning within 6 months, as with a long term nursing home resident. In that case the home will be sold to recapture previous paid expenses.

38 posted on 01/27/2014 9:34:39 AM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: voicereason

That’s what kids are for. When you die, your debts live on.


39 posted on 01/27/2014 9:43:26 AM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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To: freedomfiter2
"I agree with you but the same principle should apply to wall street welfare crowd."

Yes. The Federal Reserve has been buying stocks (reportedly without controlling influence in companies' decisions) and bonds for a long time. And yes, there were the bailouts, ongoing regulations against productive domestic competition and many other connections between private investors and government.

Now, lobbies are more intense in their political efforts as evidenced in hysterical speech, increasing scandal, crime rates and generally, the fights over the pile of debt. An economy can't run on piles of debt for foreign products and overproduction of U.S. dollars for long. So really, the medical racket and insurance debacle won't matter much longer for most of us.


40 posted on 01/27/2014 9:47:19 AM PST by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: Gen.Blather

What did Medicare actually PAY for that claim?
On mine, they typically are similar to what you quoted.


41 posted on 01/27/2014 9:49:46 AM PST by nascarnation (I'm hiring Jack Palladino to investigate Baraq's golf scores.)
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To: rktman

You’re lucky, mine already has which sheets she wants me to use. :-)


42 posted on 01/27/2014 9:57:27 AM PST by Abathar (Proudly posting without reading the article carefully since 2004)
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To: wiggen
Heirs losing inheritance. Not their own assets they’ve earned.

Not necesarily. My father went into a nursing home after he had a catastrophic stroke that was beyond my ability to manage. It was paid for by Medicare, and he by that time no longer had any assets. Nevertheless the home came after me for eighty thousands dollars in charges. They were not successful but only because I was a divorced mother making a pittance and did not have any chance of paying such a charge. I inherited nothing to speak of from my father, so this was not losing an inheritance.

43 posted on 01/27/2014 9:58:58 AM PST by ottbmare (the OTTB mare, now a proud Marine Mom)
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To: Abathar

Very thoughtful of her. No sense in wasting the 600 count egyptian cotton ones. LOL!


44 posted on 01/27/2014 9:59:58 AM PST by rktman (Under my plan(scheme), the price of EVERYTHING will necessarily skyrocket! Period.)
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To: maddog55
I’ll wait till I’m about dead, get a government backed reverse mortgage on my house, give the money to the kids and when I die, the government can repossess a house from a bank they backed the mortgage on.

No, what you should do is set up a trust for all your assets right now that will go into effect the moment you die. You will die penniless but the trust will disburse your assets to your kids or whoever.

45 posted on 01/27/2014 10:01:56 AM PST by ottbmare (the OTTB mare, now a proud Marine Mom)
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To: PGR88

“...but when we reach the limit, we will need to draw down her assets. After those are gone - she will then be eligible for Medicaid.”

Just a warning...depending upon the state you live, they may go back and “claw back” assets that were transferred in the preceding 5 - 7 years.


46 posted on 01/27/2014 10:04:06 AM PST by mouske
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To: ottbmare

I thought it was illegal to attach the debts of a parent to a child? We’re venturing down the road of indentured servitude.


47 posted on 01/27/2014 10:08:40 AM PST by wiggen (The teacher card. When the racism card just won't work.)
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To: grania

Medicare and Medicaid are different. Medicaid is a pure wealth transfer program. Medicaid patients have done nothing but exist and get sick. Medicare patients usually have paid into Medicare for decades.


48 posted on 01/27/2014 10:11:08 AM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: maddog55

“I’ll wait till I’m about dead, get a government backed reverse mortgage on my house, give the money to the kids and when I die, the government can repossess a house from a bank they backed the mortgage on.”

Gifts less than 5 years before you incur the expenses are considered fraudulent transfers and can be recovered from your kids.


49 posted on 01/27/2014 10:12:46 AM PST by ModelBreaker
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To: Abathar

Abathar, I agree with you 100% and have made that very clear in my pre-need planning documents, and I’ve relayed it to my spouse and children as well. Apart from some busy-body bureaucrat, there should be no questions, if/when the time comes.

If my time is up, let me go. Do NOT extend life if quality of life cannot be assured.


50 posted on 01/27/2014 10:22:35 AM PST by PubliusMM (RKBA; a matter of fact, not opinion. 01-20-2016; I pray we make it that long.)
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