Skip to comments.Will You Owe Debt After Death? The Medicaid Surprise
Posted on 01/27/2014 8:25:49 AM PST by rktman
This was not in the fine print of the Affordable Care Act (that no one read), and there was nothing in it that changed the existing law from 1993. The ACA however, did expand the number of people who are eligible for Medicaid, so now there are more people from the ages of 55 to 65 whose estates could be on the hook for Medicaid expenses after the beneficiary dies.
This sounds like a cash grab to me. Many states have not changed the law to limit the amount of expenses the government can claim are owed for Medicaid, but Oregon and Washington have issued emergency rule changes.In Washington it now says that the state can only recover the cost of nursing home care for the 55-65 age groups.Oregon followed this path as well.However there are 23 other states that have expanded Medicare under Obamacare and they have not changed their estate recovery policies. This could end up with the deceased persons heirs losing homes, property and other assets.
(Excerpt) Read more at finance.townhall.com ...
death tax via fiat
You haven’t already? LOL!
If someone is going to require me to pay their medical bills while they’re alive, I see no reason not to ask for repayment from their assets after they pass on.
Democrats, communists (redundant?), and union members (redundant again?) excepted, of course.
Great post. Thanks. Socialism Is Legal Plunder - Bastiat
TOTALITARIANCARE (force) is a Pandora’s Box of deception, lies, plunder & death the likes of which this republic has never seen.
He has erected a multitude of New Offices, and sent hither swarms of Officers to harrass our people, and eat out their substance.
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happines
This is what happens when you PASS THE BILL FIRST, then find out what is in it next
I agree — IF those people are given the option to have insurance and pay for it beforehand. In some of these cases, they are being forced on it, or their children are, etc.
This is really just a trick by Obama to increase the entitlement rolls to ‘beyond-reach’ proportions and finally force this country into abject socialism.
DEPOPULATE socialists/totalitarians of both parties from the body politic.
CONFISCATE all of their assets for the unparalleled comprehensive damage they have done to the republic.
After all, it isn't really accumulated wealth unless one has paid their bills along the way.
I agree with you but the same principle should apply to wall street welfare crowd.
“This could end up with the deceased persons heirs losing homes, property and other assets.”
Heirs losing inheritance. Not their own assets they’ve earned.
I think you mean medicaid”-that is what the masses think is “free” to everyone with no or little income, and obamacare has expanded that definition.
Absolutely. One of the outrages is execs at failed banks and corporations that the fed bailed out were paid not just exhorbitant salaries, but bonuses too.
Doctor “I have some bad news, you only have six months to live, and you’ll owe taxes after you die.”
Patient: “But I can’t pay those taxes.”
Doctor: “Ok, I’ll give you another six months.”
-With apologies to Henny Youngman
I meant Medicaid....thanks for the correction.
If you incurr the costs why shouldn't you be liable for them? The alternative is that someone else pays for your health care through their taxes.
Could someone explain: I thought you had to be penniless and have NO wealth other than the maximum $2,000 to qualify for Medicaid.
I’ll wait till I’m about dead, get a government backed reverse mortgage on my house, give the money to the kids and when I die, the government can repossess a house from a bank they backed the mortgage on.
In California they will recover anything they spent on welfare or medical.
I had a deadbeat cousin that my aunt wrote him out of her will because the state would have taken every cent.
Expanded Medicaid has no asset restrictions, just income which is below 138% FPL. A bunch of states decided not participate in expanded medicaid, so their rules are still in effect.
So, if you don’t want to give your estate to the government, you must not accept medicare. Or obamacare. Or any kind of care you don’t pay cash for.
Eventually they’ll close that loophole too because, in the end, you and your estate belong to them.
This article is not very clear - and indeed, Medicare/Medicaid rules are a hairball of confusing regulations.
I am going through this now with an elderly relative, who is in Medicare. Medicare insurance is covering hospital stays now, but when we reach the limit, we will need to draw down her assets. After those are gone - she will then be eligible for Medicaid.
The point of this article, I believe, is to point out that some elderly who have signed up for Obamacare may be forced into Medicaid, even if they did not intend it - meaning that the government will want all their assets before treating them. Surprise!
“If someone is going to require me to pay their medical bills while theyre alive, I see no reason not to ask for repayment from their assets after they pass on.”
Because the government is involved the price is inordinately inflated. In a recent example a private doctor charged $10 for a blood test to a cash patient. The same test done by a different office and charged to Medicare was $78. Not only will the service be slow and substandard, but it will be overly costly too.
The two forms of medicine that are forever decreasing in cost and increasing in quality are cosmetic surgery and Lasik surgery. Those are not reimbursed by any third party payer so the market is in force.
This is why I intend to let nature take its course and refuse to be a burden on my family. I’ve worked hard my whole life and a big part of that is to secure a future for my family after I pass, especially my wife.
I saw my grandparents and father given a death sentence diagnosis then spend months and months letting them suck their insurance dry. How many times we heard “Medicare will cover “x” treatments” or “x” therapy or “x” tests, always the maximum number and no further. It was a system they had down pat to milk everyone as much as possible before they died, and I really want no part of it.
If they can give me quality of life then I will do it, but if they are only looking to give quantity then let me say goodbye, give me something to ease my going, and let life go on.
Of course people have said “You talk like that now, but wait until it ever really happens and see how you feel,” I really don’t think my mind will be changed though, I truly believe that when your time has come then bowing out gracefully and under your own terms is how it should be done.
they don’t go after medicare, but they do medicaid (welfare medical care).
Nope!In NJ you can even get a cheap auto insurance policy if you are on Medicaid. It only covers bodily injury. That means if you are the policy holder and have an accident the insurance will not pay toward damages of the auto you hit.That means the other guy is going to be left with out of pocket expenses for his damages with no way to recover.
This happened to my wife. Both the husband and wife that ran into my wife’s car were on Medicaid even though they were only in their thirties.(Still can’t figure how they qualified for Medicaid) We got stuck with a $500.00 bill .She was even driving on a suspended license and left the scene of the accident before the police showed up!
I’ll bet 95% of people who live in NJ don’t even know about this “special kind of insurance policy.
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You have no choice on not getting Medicare.At 65 you must be enrolled in it( if you are getting Social Security) even if you have adequate insurance to cover yourself without it!Then they automatically take your payment out of your Social Security check.Double whammy for you.
The state considers it a loan by the taxpayers. Therefore, the state a put a leon on anything of value when she passes on.
They are interested in real property, coins or even collector cars. Incidental property of little value really doesn't concern them because of the hassle to turn that type of property into cash.
Yup. That paid off mortgage you have sure feels good cause the house is now finally yours. Well, not so much. Stop payin’ the property tax and find out who the house belongs to. Hey, at least it lowers your monthly outflow right? :>)
I keep tellin’ my better half to just take me up in the mountains in some remote area and drop me off and let nature take her course. :>) She no likey that idea.
nasc.... Some folks go through all sorts of legal manipulations to protect their assets. Will Zerocare make them invalid if heirs will still be responsible to pay off the incurred debt?
Can any other Freeper answer this question?
Some states have a “filial responsibility” law. A guy just a lost a case in Pennsylvania recently where he’s on the hook for his dad’s bills.
Couples do have the provision for division of assets so that when one spouse goes on Medicaid the other is not impoverished. There are provisions for gifts also but they may delay or defer qualifying for Medicaid if they occur in the previous five years.
The best idea is to consult an attorney specializing in this field because penalties for ineligible distribution or hiding of assets can be severe.
The provision that seems to get people upset is that the home is not exempt if unoccupied by a spouse or the recipient is not returning within 6 months, as with a long term nursing home resident. In that case the home will be sold to recapture previous paid expenses.
That’s what kids are for. When you die, your debts live on.
What did Medicare actually PAY for that claim?
On mine, they typically are similar to what you quoted.
You’re lucky, mine already has which sheets she wants me to use. :-)
Not necesarily. My father went into a nursing home after he had a catastrophic stroke that was beyond my ability to manage. It was paid for by Medicare, and he by that time no longer had any assets. Nevertheless the home came after me for eighty thousands dollars in charges. They were not successful but only because I was a divorced mother making a pittance and did not have any chance of paying such a charge. I inherited nothing to speak of from my father, so this was not losing an inheritance.
Very thoughtful of her. No sense in wasting the 600 count egyptian cotton ones. LOL!
No, what you should do is set up a trust for all your assets right now that will go into effect the moment you die. You will die penniless but the trust will disburse your assets to your kids or whoever.
“...but when we reach the limit, we will need to draw down her assets. After those are gone - she will then be eligible for Medicaid.”
Just a warning...depending upon the state you live, they may go back and “claw back” assets that were transferred in the preceding 5 - 7 years.
I thought it was illegal to attach the debts of a parent to a child? We’re venturing down the road of indentured servitude.
Medicare and Medicaid are different. Medicaid is a pure wealth transfer program. Medicaid patients have done nothing but exist and get sick. Medicare patients usually have paid into Medicare for decades.
“Ill wait till Im about dead, get a government backed reverse mortgage on my house, give the money to the kids and when I die, the government can repossess a house from a bank they backed the mortgage on.”
Gifts less than 5 years before you incur the expenses are considered fraudulent transfers and can be recovered from your kids.
Abathar, I agree with you 100% and have made that very clear in my pre-need planning documents, and I’ve relayed it to my spouse and children as well. Apart from some busy-body bureaucrat, there should be no questions, if/when the time comes.
If my time is up, let me go. Do NOT extend life if quality of life cannot be assured.
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