Posted on 01/29/2014 1:39:54 AM PST by MacMattico
To the contrary, there are many do-overs in life, and everyone knows it, including you. As well, we are not talking about life, we are talking about jackass school administrators who need to be confronted with their refusal to follow their own policies. And finally, go shout at some kids to stay off your lawn, adults are trying to have a discussion here.
Such things do not happen in Glorious Peoples’ Republic. You must be enemy of State. Expect visit from KGB ... er, I mean ... IRS.
The way I see the problem, there are two separate issues.
The first is administrative. If the school will permit the girl to drop without negative consequences, then that is definitely the way to go. A full semester is probably too far behind and would be inconsistent with a true success by years end.
The second issue is one of preparedness.
The lack of a textbook I consider an academic felony. Math hasn't changed enough in the last century to justify denying the student a compact and precise presentation of the principles being taught along with numerous worked-out examples and problem sets consistent with the presentation.
The girl's capabilities must be assessed with an eye toward whether she possesses the prerequisite knowledge and skills.
I disagree vehemently with the poster who emphasizes memorization. My very bright daughter was able to progress through to algebra in high school by applying some memorized techniques to new problems. She hit a wall in algebra and suddenly was struggling as she had never done before.
It only took me about 30 minutes to see what her problem was. She didn't understand the arithmetic of fractions. She could apply some rules that she had memorized but she didn't really understand what was happening. She couldn't find her way to a solution because she was missing key concepts.
Though she later changed focus, she was on a scholarship and completed the first two years in a bio-medical engineering major at a well-known university.
The time to find out where this girl's math deficiency is now; the sooner the better. IF you can find an enginner or mathematician to sit down with her for just a few sessions, it could reveal a lot.
Did I mention how much I hate technical classes taught without a textbook? What an awful thing to do to students. I can't understand why teachers today think it is so clever to invent a new way to present concepts that haven't changed in their lifetimes.
Had there been a concerted effort earlier in the semester, the possibility of successfully getting through the year's course would have still existed.
Somebody made an error in not seeking help sooner.
Lots of really good advice here, but most all turn on the facts concerning learning, etc. At this point, it has nothing to do with the girl, learning or her capabilities... it’s all about the school policy/rules and following them.
Sit down and plan out exactly what the girl wants to do and what her mother wants. Work it out on paper and get a hard copy of the school rules and policies that apply to go with your plan. You might do a little research online regarding the laws governing schools and school districts, and have them printed out to take with you just so you’ll have them (As a prop to refer to, if nothing else. But definitely let them know you have the printed laws with you. It shows them that you’ve done your homework, along with the presence of the atty.)
By all means, schedule the meeting with the school admin and teacher, but go find either a super bad ass, junk yard dog, ambulance chasing lawyer or a really hungry one- The bad ass who has sued the school/county or local gov’t and has won is the best possible.
The lawyer just goes with you all to the meeting. He doesn’t have to do anything and you don’t have to refer to him or introduce him at all. Just let him introduce himself at the beginning by saying, “I’m attorney xxx, and I’m here representing Miss Y.” Then he sits down and doesn’t have to say a word further. Also make a big deal of taking the biggest recording machine with you to the meeting. Make a show of putting it on the table or some central focal point and turning it on, while saying “This is just a recording to memorialize everything for everyone’s benefit.”
Then go over your step by step plan for the girl and her argument that she should be allowed to drop the course (according to THEIR OWN school policy, which you HAVE a copy of) and take it next year after the tutoring during the summer. At any point when any of the school personnel object to what you want, make a very pointed look towards the attorney, have him nod his head or shake his head “no” or whatever, then reiterate your demand/request and don’t back down.
It’s all theater of the absurd, but the second the school authorities hear the lawyer introduce himself, the whole game reverses and now they’re on the defensive and have to sweat to justify EVERY tiny detail they bring up - or be sued by the nasty looking atty sitting there taking it all in.
I know this sounds like way too much overkill, but the school admins today MUST be stood up to and shown that they are not the power holders, that the students and parents are. At no time are you threatening a lawsuit, you’ve only brought the attorney into the room with you. But it will work wonders as an attitude adjustment for the admin, who are completely used to totally getting their way and lording their “power” over both the students and their parents and the taxpayers. When you play the “supplicant” to their Lordship Powers, it only energizes them to lord it over you. Walking in being on the offense changes their game and you and the student are no longer their “supplicant”, begging for scraps of their good will.
If you think of this more as doing it for the rest of the students and parents who would just be steamrolled over by the school admin bullies, it makes it more worth the efforts. If you know an attorney friend who can go with you and just play the role, that will do. He doesn’t have to say anything or give any legal advice at all. Just introduce himself and then sit there, looking sour and ready to tear some new @$$holes if need be.
Or you can just let the student (a worthy one from the sounds of it) and her mother get steamrolled by the asinine bureaucrats with their petty power plays and strutting shows of authority.
I’ve actually done things like this and it is really an entertaining thing. It’s fun watching the so-called “powerful” bullies start stuttering and measuring their words very carefully so they won’t be listed on the ‘defendant’ side of a lawsuit— even if the lawsuit threat is only in their own mind. But it is fun to watch them. No matter what, make a big deal about recording the whole session, “so it can be transcribed for ‘legal purposes, if needed’”. And DON’T BACK DOWN!
While the average of 0 and 70 is certainly 35, I wouldn’t consider the result a failure. I would see that practically as a D.
“And finally, go shout at some kids to stay off your lawn, adults are trying to have a discussion here.”
Oh, boy, I must have touched a sore spot...
Which is it, you studied and still flunked Algebra or flunked it because you didn’t study?
This is my way of telling you that your attack was uncalled for. If you read my other posts I suggested checking on what the policy really is — if there are no restriction in dropping the class, she can do it, but it appeared that you can drop some courses, but you cannot drop core courses.
And why did she wait until the last possible week when you can still drop the class, maybe, to have this great revelation that she is going to flunk the class — not to mention her Mother should have been following the situation.
Sounds to me, you are another lovely person with no sense of responsibility — and it appears you feel a strong kinship towards her, so perhaps you are recognizing yourself.
And now as an adult you are still throwing temper tantrums.
In Algebra I: (by quarter and regents exam): A, B-, B-, C-, C-
NY
While they want the parent to sign off it was against Guidance and Principal recommendations, I also got the impression it has never been done before and they were interested in seeing the results and might even agree with it, but if it was a miserable failure could say “see we told them not to do that” to the Superintendent.
Now I have a nervous mom asking “should I sign the paper?”
Yes, Algebra II/Trig is required of all students in NY state. I agree with what you are saying. NY schools, though, offer no credit for on-line courses but they could catch her up to restart the course next fall.
Thanks, let me try to figure out their plan and get back to you.
I did fine in math, thanks so much for asking. And as for why she waited so long, maybe she was trying to pass the class by studying harder, and not ask for favors.
You buy the administrative position, I don’t. Which is obvious by the level of comparitive vitriol we each suggested to each other. Mine was a slap, yours was repeated napalming. Yep, you’ve definitely got an admin background.
I think I see part of the problem here.
But the mom needs to just tell the school that her daughter is with in the rules to drop the class and that is what is going to happen.
Never argue with these types of people just tell them how it is going to be politely but firmly and then proceed.
Now as to the problem, some people are visual learners. You can give them as many verbal instructions as you want and they are not going to get it. Since the teacher is teaching without a text book (which is rather odd for math) then the young lady is not able to read the instructions and so it is not sinking in.
I stayed with it and graduated with a Math Major, wow did it provide a great return on the investment. I was rated an Engineer equivalent and actually did rocket science.
But looking back at it years later, I would change 2 things:
1. I would do all my Math homework (I instead partied).
2. I would read ahead to the next section to prepare for class.
Might sound like a DUH!!!!, but being the 1st college graduate ever from family (aunts, uncles, etc.), there was no one to coach me.
Also amazing to me how many teachers cannot do mid level Math, but there is no additional pay for hard degrees with teachers.
“I asked to see the text book and they don’t have one! No online materials assigned. Just what the teacher provides.”
That’s ridiculous and one part of the problem.
Buy the Saxon Algebra II textbook and Home School Packet, used on ebay. Those books are so well written you can teach yourself. (The older versions, not the newer common core ones).
The girl got the teachers signature, although the teacher seemed shocked that the Principal was allowing it. She begged the girl to stay in the class and promised extra help, knowing this would reflect on her. The girl told her that after all her help, she was still lost.
When the form came home the mother was shocked by the small print that said the girl would not have to attend the class, but would receive a 50 for all of the remaining quarters and the final! What? It says “drop form” but they're giving you a failing grade fir a dropped class?
I knew that this wasn't normal protocol because I remembered my daughter had dropped a class before because it was “boring” and her grade first quarter was taken off the report card, there is no record of her being in the class. I went with the mother to the school and they removed that line from the form and the drop was approved.
Report cards came out and her grades for the first two quarters are still there. The Principal himself had said they couldn't give any grades for the full year dropped course because there is no such thing as a half year Trig course. The girl went down to guidance and explained what had happened. Guidance said nope, the grades stay. Nowhere is this in the school handbook, and it doesn't make sense.
BTW, NY is so rigid in it's curriculum program. Is there any way this course can be taken outside of school? Mom was told by the school NY does not accept math without Regents exam so no online or other courses accepted. But I can't believe this! I am really upset because this is my daughter's school to, and it seems like they make up rules as they go along. They have some stupid program where kids that are in trouble or can't graduate "normally" can attend school from 3-5 in the afternoon, do some stuff on the computer and still graduate with their class! My daughter tells me kids that aren't thinking about college and the druggie crowd love this. They party all night, sleep all day, show up for two hours and that's it! Yet they can't figure out how to let one girl drop a class?
Actually, I can. I had the very same problem in high school. I will bet my bottom dollar what is wrong here is she is not applying the order of operations correctly. I know it sounds way, way over simplified to say such a thing, but I struggled all the way through high school math 'pre-calculus.' Tutors and all as well.
The only reason I got a passing grade (D) from my pre-calc. teacher was he spoke to my advanced physics teacher (A). They determined together that I could apply the math skills, but for some reason when given a direct math problem I got lost. No one could figure out why that was.
Of course in college I had to take several semesters of remedial courses, but in the first semester the professor introduced the "order of operations" in such a way as a literal 'light' went on in my head. After getting a grip on that, it was off to the races for me and my 'math' classes.
It is not that she is not studying, she is missing a key foundational component. She likely does not need to start over, she needs someone to unlock the door.
So what did finally happen?
Was she able to drop the class or is she studying diligently to try to pass it this time?
Sorry to just reply to your question on this old thread, but there’s an update.
The student was allowed to drop the class and was told the grade would be completely removed. The mother waited patiently for a new report card to arrive and the girl started a new half year course.
She is now 3 weeks into the new course and a letter arrives telling the mom and student the grades will remain on an “unofficial” transcript but
removed before college applications. The school says this policy has been put in place to help those that retake the courses, and if they keep these grades on an “unofficial” transcript, the grades can be used in the future. It goes as far to say even if she retook Trig next year and had 3 good quarters, if she had a bad fourth quarter and one of her previous grades from this year (first and second quarter material) were higher, that grade could be used. And in order to keep it on her unofficial transcript, it has to remain on her report card. Absolute insanity!
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