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Start-up purchases controversial cold fusion nuclear reactor E-cat - Let's see if it works
FutureIsTech.Info ^ | 01/26/2014 | Admin

Posted on 01/31/2014 5:44:59 PM PST by Kevmo

Start-up purchases controversial cold fusion nuclear reactor E-cat - Let's see if it works

01/26/2014

A North Carolina based company called Industrial Heat LLC has come out and admitted that it now owns Andrea Rossi’s ecat low energy nuclear reaction (LENR) technology. Industrial Heat has put out a press release in which it confirmed rumors that it had spent $11 million to purchase Rossi’s device.

The press release also confirmed speculation that Tom Darden of Cherokee Investment Partners a North Carolina equity fund is a principal investor in Industrial heat. It stated that one of Darden’s associates J.T. Vaughn is the manager of Industrial Heat LLC. Industrial Heat LLC is based in the Research Triangle region around Raleigh, North Carolina where many technology companies have operations. Cherokee’s website describes Vaughn as a Senior Analyst at the firm.

Vaughn said that his company had acquired the intellectual property rights to the Ecat in the press release. Vaughn and Darden were convinced of the Ecat’s authenticity by a report prepared by physics professors Guiseppe Levi, Hanno Essen, Ronald Petterson, Torbojorn Hartman, Bo Hoistad, Roland Pettersson and Lars Tegner. The scientists tested the ecat in December 2012 and March 2013 and observed its operations. Vaughn and Darden also had an unidentified independent expert exam the ecat before investing their money in it.

The press release stated that Industrial Heat has prepared numerous patent applications to protect ecat technology but wouldn’t’ elaborate. The release didn’t say if any of these applications have been filed or not.

“The world needs a new, clean and efficient energy source,” Vaugh said of his reasons for acquiring Ecat in the press release. “Such a technology would raise the standard of living in developing countries and reduce the environmental impact of producing energy.”

The press release stated that Industrial Heat wants to enter into partnerships with other companies, universities and nongovernment organizations (NGOs) to develop LENR technology. It didn’t identify any of these partners or mention any specific uses for Ecat technology.

Predictably and sadly the cold fusion skeptics have already started attacking Industrial Heat. The Gizmodo blog is claiming that Darden and Vaughn were bamboozled and bought a reactor that might not actually work. Typically the skeptics provide absolutely no proof for their accusations they just make them and hope nobody questions their statements. Those who criticize Rossi for not verifying claims turn around and do exactly the same thing.

Tom Darden

Vaughn and Darden seem like hardhead and sensible businessmen who have done their homework. They actually looked into Ecat and got the facts before investing. Gizmodo mentions Rossi’s criminal conviction but doesn’t mention the involvement of distinguished professors such as Guiseppe Levi in the ecat project.

Industrial Heat’s confirmation is very good news, despite the skeptics. It’s the biggest investment so far in cold fusion and it proves there are far sighted businessmen interested in commercializing this important technology. Hopefully Industrial Heat will be able to commercialize the Ecat and looking into other LENR devices such asthose at Brillouin.

I also hope that Industrial Heat’s brave stand will inspire other investors to put their money behind low energy nuclear reaction. We need massive investment in this technology now.


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Science; Society
KEYWORDS: bollocks; canr; coldfusion; ecat; lenr
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AlainCo link 01/27/2014 9:04am

Thanks to relay that important news.

This news get even greater when to match it with the signed partnership of Industrial Heat LLC/Cherokee with Chinese officials in Baoding HIDZ about this new clean "Nickel Energy". http://www.icebank.cn/news/detail_2.php?id=113

When you observe the number of companies, http://www.lenrnews.eu/lenr-summary-for-policy-makers/ more or less involved, startup and corps, with results or ambitions, you see that the probability of Cold Fusion being a scam as is the "official theory" is below anything realist.

The big question is why we are stuck in the beliefs that Cold Fusion is voodoo science.

Charles Beaudette in Excess Heat gives his clear vision :

http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/lenr%20home%20page/acrobat/BeaudetteCexcessheat.pdf

"The upshot of this conflict was that the scientific community failed to give anomalous heat the evaluation that was its due. Scientists of orthodox views, in the first six years of this episode, produced only four critical reviews of the two chemists’ calorimetry work. The first report came in 1989 (N. S. Lewis). It dismissed the Utah claim for anomalous power on grounds of faulty laboratory technique. A second review was produced in 1991 (W. N. Hansen) that strongly supported the claim. It was based on an independent analysis of cell data that was provided by the two chemists. An extensive review completed in 1992 (R. H. Wilson) was highly critical though not conclusive. But it did recognize the existence of anomalous power, which carried the implication that the Lewis dismissal was mistaken. A fourth review was produced in 1994 (D. R. O. Morrison) which was itself unsatisfactory. It was rebutted strongly to the point of dismissal and correctly in my view. No defense was offered against the rebuttal. During those first six years, the community of orthodox scientists produced no report of a flaw in the heat measurements that was subsequently sustained by other reports.

The community of scientists at large never saw or knew about this minimalist critique of the claim. It was buried in the avalanche of skepticism that issued forth in the first three months. This skepticism was buttressed by the failure of the two chemists’ nuclear measurements, the lack of a theoretical understanding of how their claim could work, a mistaken concern with the number of failed experiments, a wholly unrealistic expectation of the time and resource the evaluation would need, and the substantial ad hominem attacks on them. However, their original claim of measurement of the anomalous power remained unscathed during all of this furor. A decade later, it was not generally realized that this claim remained essentially unevaluated by the scientific community. Confusion necessarily arose when the skeptics refused without argument to recognize the heat measurement and its corresponding hypothesis of a nuclear source. As a consequence, the story of the excess heat phenomenon has never been told."

in fact there is more than that, big problem with epistemology for Nuclear Scientists (who forgot theory was subordinate to evidences, and that replication was a slow and hard job for chemist and for most other scientists).

He describes well the media cascade when sanctified scientist make strong claims based on his own physicist ego and is superior incompetence in a foreign domain (calorimetry), despite the fact that his claim were quickly dismissed as unfounded... Errors can get viral when launched by influential individual in community where trust and dependence on peer-opinion is the rule.

When this affair will be cleared we will have to open the archive and find where are the errors. They are like for subprime crisis or Enron, in group-think, which is as Roland Benabou explains, derived from the inter-dependencies and hierarchy in academic society.

1 posted on 01/31/2014 5:44:59 PM PST by Kevmo
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To: dangerdoc; citizen; Liberty1970; Red Badger; Wonder Warthog; PA Engineer; glock rocks; free_life; ..

The Cold Fusion/LENR Ping List

http://www.freerepublic.com/tag/coldfusion/index?tab=articles


http://lenr-canr.org/

Vortex-L
http://tinyurl.com/pxtqx3y


2 posted on 01/31/2014 5:46:16 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

I need an LENR Stove to heat my house this Winter.


3 posted on 01/31/2014 5:48:11 PM PST by Paladin2
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To: Kevmo

Dang $11 million huh...

Somebody must know something a lot of folks here don’t.

If this takes off, there’s not going to be enough pies for the faces of those who shot their mouth off here for years.

Perhaps the rest of us who were patient and urged folks to wait and see, had the right idea all along.


4 posted on 01/31/2014 5:49:11 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Amnesty is job NONE! It isn't even the leading issue with Hipanics.)
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To: Kevmo
$11 mm? This seems like BS. $11 BILLION for a new energy source would be cheap. This is chump change in the energy world.

I really think this proves there is no 'there' here.

5 posted on 01/31/2014 5:51:19 PM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: FatherofFive

11 Million is still 11 million.

They saw enough to at least take a bet on a long shot.

DARPA probably spent a lot more research hafnium. Not to mention what has been spent on hot fusion.

Hope it works, but I will remain on the skeptical side until it’s proven.

But I am willing to remain open minded about it and enjoy these posts.


6 posted on 01/31/2014 5:56:54 PM PST by crusher2013
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To: FatherofFive

Not necessarily. Big energy companies will spend $11 million just to see how something will work, which implies they do believe in the plausibility of the idea.

They won’t spend $11 billion until they know they have something viable.

I wish Rossi luck and hope it all works out for him.


7 posted on 01/31/2014 5:57:08 PM PST by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: Kevmo

Rossi Confirms Position at Industrial Heat LLC
Posted on January 27, 2014 by admin • 2 Comments

Here’s a final confirmation about Andrea Rossi’s official position. Last week when I asked him what his reaction was to the press release from Industial Heat, he responded, ‘no comment.’ Today he was asked another question on the Journal of Nuclear Physics about about his official position:

“Dear Andrea
You always say you’re chief scientist at your new partner. Since the press release from Industrial Heat, LLC, I wonder, are you now chief scientist at Industrial Heat, LLC, or is there another comp. involved?”

Rossi’s response:

“Regarding the so called Rossi Effect, I am the chief scientist at Industrial Heat.”
http://www.e-catworld.com/2014/01/rossi-confirms-position-at-industrial-heat-llc/


8 posted on 01/31/2014 5:57:19 PM PST by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: Kevmo

In before the “this is just a front for the oil companies, who bought it so they could bury it” comment...


9 posted on 01/31/2014 5:58:24 PM PST by bigbob (The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly. Abraham Lincoln)
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To: saganite

So basically Rossi sold it to himself?


10 posted on 01/31/2014 5:59:07 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Paladin2

It will be a while. In 1976 I needed a computer to do my homework on. I couldn’t afford one until 1982 when I bought a used Apple//e with 128K memory and 144kbyte drives for $3500. Now we can get Gigs of memory & speed for $400 in a laptop.

It takes a while for the affordability/homeUse curve to come our way.

And this is related to Power, not How Many Bits a CPU can process. We all knew that there would be tremendous increases in transistors/mm on wafers because there was vast room for improvement, but the process technology had to improve.

When you’re pushing bits on silicon, their mass for a trillion of them is still less than an amoeba. But when this Power technology is in full production and you divide the smallest unit by a trillion, the mass being pushed will be maybe 7 or 8 magnitudes higher than bits on silicon.

Here’s another way to look at it. If you were to increase the mass of these bits being pushed by electricity by 20 orders of magnitude, it might weigh as much as a tennis ball. Let’s say you had a material to build a car that weighed as much as a tennis ball but had the same strength as Carbon Fiber. You’d have a lot of room for improvement, wouldn’t you? It might take a few decades, but you’d be flying in outer space by that time. You can see why pushing bits across silicon is easier than pushing mass or generating energy.

Admittedly, this is just a handwaving analogy because I don’t have the time to check how many orders of magnitude makes sense in each scenario. But the overall point is easy to see. One technology was easier to push and make progress on.


11 posted on 01/31/2014 6:02:23 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo
Call me skeptical still BUT not because I think the tech can't be done or is scientifically impossible etc. Call me skeptical because I still have not seen a public test showing it works.

I keep hearing about such I've also keep hearing aliens have landed and Bigfoot is real.

If the tech works looks hook her up and let it run.

I guarantee you if it works there is a market.

But damn it unveil it and lets roll.

America needs new cheap energy. If this is it WTF are they waiting for?

12 posted on 01/31/2014 6:03:51 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: FatherofFive

Mike Markula bought a sizeable chunk of Apple for $250K. You would have been among the critics who would have said that for such a small amount, “ this proves there is no ‘there’ here.”


13 posted on 01/31/2014 6:04:15 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: crusher2013

DARPA probably spent a lot more research hafnium.
***Thanks for posting that earlier. It was fascinating reading and I’ll need to read up more.


14 posted on 01/31/2014 6:05:33 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: cripplecreek

He didn’t sell it to himself since he doesn’t own the company but as chief scientist he still has control over testing and implementation and if you’re familiar with his record that means there’s no possibility this company will get to see what the ECat will do.


15 posted on 01/31/2014 6:06:32 PM PST by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: saganite

Interesting. The reason why I don’t often go to his website has been his track record. Maybe now that some things are out in the open, he will prove more trustworthy on his public statements.

Maybe I’ll even post a “Rossi says” article on Free Republic, which I have not done for at least 2 years... not that you’d know that from the invective thrown my way by the skeptopath crowd.


16 posted on 01/31/2014 6:08:13 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: saganite

Good enough to squeeze a few more years of promises out of it.


17 posted on 01/31/2014 6:09:43 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: Kevmo

Ah, more “green shoots” in the E-Cat world!


18 posted on 01/31/2014 6:09:59 PM PST by RetiredTexasVet (Stalin is smiling in Hell at how well Obama has copied his communist organization.)
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To: Kevmo

I wish them the best. We will find out in the end. If it goes LENR’s way then don’t forget that skeptics make us sharper and better at what we do. If it goes against LENR then don’t forget that dreamers scientist and inventers gave us all we have today. And in the face of sceptism.


19 posted on 01/31/2014 6:14:52 PM PST by Nuc 1.1 (Nuc 1 Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789!)
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To: Mad Dawgg

Call me skeptical because I still have not seen a public test showing it works.
***By that time it won’t matter. If you had $20M to invest, you’d have gotten a private demo. Same thing happened with the Wright brothers. They refused to demo to anyone who wouldn’t agree to buy airplanes if the demo were successful. That period lasted 5 years.

I keep hearing about such I’ve also keep hearing aliens have landed and Bigfoot is real.
***Look at Scientific Instruments, the leaders in Measurement. They looked at over 150 replications and said There is a REAL Anomaly here. Both Toyota and Mitsubishi have generated LENR replications. Has any other multi$Billion company said aliens or Bigfoot is real? How many times have aliens or bigfoot been replicated? More than 14,700, like LENR?

If the tech works looks hook her up and let it run.
***It is extremely tricky.

I guarantee you if it works there is a market.
***There’s an obvious market. It’s just such a tricky phenomena that it took this long to get past the doubt stage. This didn’t happen to High Temperature Superconductivity (just as surprising results in 1989) because there wasn’t an entrenched industry readily willing to trash it.

But damn it unveil it and lets roll.
***I agree. In fact, I’m looking to invest but get stymied at every turn.

America needs new cheap energy. If this is it WTF are they waiting for?
***Patent protection for their IP. Relief from the Controlled-Hot-Fusion boys who have pissed hundreds of $billions down their rathole scam and still have the Defense industry behind them. Various other major hurdles. Bringing a new technology to market is difficult enough; doing it under these conditions is more hazardous than flying the first airplane.


20 posted on 01/31/2014 6:16:43 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: saganite

if you’re familiar with his record that means there’s no possibility this company will get to see what the ECat will do.
***So these guys are putting down $11M just because Rossi has such a sparkling personality... yeah right. Any normal person would look extra hard at the tech demo to find evidence of trickery. But no, not these guys, because they’re so deluded just like the 7 independent scientists and the others who have looked at Rossi’s tech and said favorable things. That would make Rossi the greatest con artist and magician in history. He’s worth following just on that account alone.


21 posted on 01/31/2014 6:19:33 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: cripplecreek

Good enough to squeeze a few more years of promises out of it.
***Maybe Rossi could take some lessons on how to conduct a Con from the Controlled-Hot-Fusion (CHF) boys. Their corner-turn is in 50 years, and always has been. They’ve pissed hundreds of $billions of TAXPAYER money down this scam. And absolutely nothing to show for it. Where’s your hot-fusion car?

But in contrast, Rossi’s supposed fraud amounts to about $20M, he’s forced to work on a corner-turn of 2 years, and he has had to turn over enough IP that his partners were able to generate excess heat by simply following his instructions in building the device. Yup — Rossi is a crappy con artist compared to those CHF fraudsters.


22 posted on 01/31/2014 6:23:52 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

When the ECat is running and Rossi is not in the room or anywhere nearby I’ll believe he has something. I’ve said that before as so many answering your posts have also. The fact that Rossi is attached to this company in any shape form or fashion raises a huge red flag.


23 posted on 01/31/2014 6:25:22 PM PST by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: saganite

When the ECat is running and Rossi is not in the room or anywhere nearby I’ll believe he has something.
***That happened with the 7 independent scientists. For most of the testing, Rossi was not even in the room. For a while, he wasn’t even on the same CONTINENT. Now, that’s a fantastic magician.

The fact that Rossi is attached to this company in any shape form or fashion raises a huge red flag.
***Then take a look at your red flag. Rossi OBVIOUSLY has character issues. So he comes and gives you a demo in order for you to front $11M to go into production. Would that make you MORE intent on discovering trickery, or LESS? These guys obviously have the ability to think critically, they saw the demo, they KNEW Rossi has a questionable background, and the result is... they reached for their checkbook. Rossi has overcome the character barrier. That is how compelling his technology is, unless he’s a super-duper magician, the best that has ever been.


24 posted on 01/31/2014 6:29:34 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo

Companies do incredibly foolish things with their money all the time. In fact, I work for a company that’s in chapter 11 for the second time in a year because of foolish purchases that swamped their core business. Waving that 11 million dollar flag does not impress me.


25 posted on 01/31/2014 6:32:30 PM PST by saganite (What happens to taglines? Is there a termination date?)
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To: Kevmo

Only gonna post once, Kevin O’Malley can flame to the end of time against, don’t care.

Kevmo doesn’t understand the difference between watts and Joules, even though he has a verifiable, if questionable, degree in electric engineering.

Kevmo does not have a degree in hard physics, but speaks the LENR mumbo jumbo in every post. I have admitted my lack of hard physics training, but I am not the only one.

Blacklight’s big feb 28th never made the news. Checked their website, and its the same junk as their original post reposted by Kevmo. Only mentions watts, never a joule. Which is absolutely useless.

Take care all, watch your wallets.


26 posted on 01/31/2014 6:34:52 PM PST by Aqua225 (Realist)
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To: saganite

So, you theory is that Rossi is generating heat with something concealed up his sleeve?


27 posted on 01/31/2014 6:35:29 PM PST by John Valentine (Deep in the Heart of Texas)
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To: Kevmo
"***It is extremely tricky."

Yep, and I hear the same when I ask the Bigfoot hunters why the haven't caught one yet.

Ditto for Nessie...

It either works or it don't. If it sorta works well its just a curious little tech that can't be used.

Electric generators work when you flip a switch. Its why they are viable. And even if they don't work sometimes 99.99999% of the time a technician can explain why and remedy the situation.

If they can't with this gizmo then its just a curiosity and they need to quit promising what they can't deliver 100%

So they need to get it back in the shop/lab and STFU and work till its right OR until they give up.

If they want to shut they naysayers up there is 100% surefire way to do so. Put a unit out in public and produce energy not for a few minutes but for weeks and months and if need be years.

Until you get to that stage its vapor ware and perpetual motion...

28 posted on 01/31/2014 6:37:24 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: DoughtyOne

No, nothing like that. It was purchased just to keep it off the market.

The plans are on the shelf right next to those 100 mile per gallon carburetor plans.


29 posted on 01/31/2014 6:37:53 PM PST by Balding_Eagle (Over production, one of the top 5 worries for the American Farmer every year.)
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To: Balding_Eagle

Heh heh heh..., well..., we’ll see. Stranger things have happened.


30 posted on 01/31/2014 6:47:39 PM PST by DoughtyOne (Amnesty is job NONE! It isn't even the leading issue with Hipanics.)
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To: Mad Dawgg

>>If this is it WTF are they waiting for? <<

Have you ever asked yourself, “Who absolutely does not want to see LENR on the market tomorrow?”

The opposition team carries a big stick and they are not someone you want to get upset at you. LENR will come out when EXXON, STANDARD OIL and the other MAJOR ENERGY PLAYERS give their permission for it to come out.

This will require their approval of your business and marketing plan.

Well it be as obvious as I have stated? No, it won’t but when your Wall Street banker approves your loan applications then you’ll know the other major energy players along with their bankers will have adjusted their plans and approved your plans.

This might just include an offer to buy out Industrial Heat LLC, Rossi and his team beforehand. This has the possibilities of upsetting major economic markets across the world and that is not going to happen until the banks are ready for it.


31 posted on 01/31/2014 6:51:49 PM PST by B4Ranch (Name your illness, do a Google & YouTube search with "hydrogen peroxide". Do it and be surprised.)
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To: B4Ranch
"This has the possibilities of upsetting major economic markets across the world and that is not going to happen until the banks are ready for it."

I got no problem with that.

BUT I keep hearing claims. Spouting off about something you can't or won't prove creates doubt and negative publicity.

What is the purpose of such? Ego?

If they can't reveal a working model of LENR or whatever is called then they should create the LENR club...

And guess what the first rule of LENR club is? [/Fight Club reference]

32 posted on 01/31/2014 7:02:20 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: saganite; Kevmo
The fact that Rossi is attached to this company in any shape form or fashion raises a huge red flag.

It's standard practice in acquisitions. Furthermore, often an acquisition hinges on the key personnel of the company moving into new positions under the purchaser's umbrella and working there for two years in exchange for money (see "golden handcuffs.") Nobody is going to buy blueprints of something, then have a trivial question about some mark or note, and having nobody to ask. Those years are required to fully transfer the knowledge about the IP to the new owner.

All this is entirely generic, and Rossi is not doing anything extraordinary by accepting a position with the purchaser. You could expect nothing less.

33 posted on 01/31/2014 8:27:21 PM PST by Greysard
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To: Mad Dawgg
The lack of public information and seeming slowness of development at this stage may be disappointing but it should not be taken as suspicious or negating the significance of the Cherokee Partners investment.

Apparently, although the LENR effect is real, issues with control of the reaction and with the intensity of the heat produced have impaired the development of a practical device that has commercial potential. Once such a device is created and proved up via prototypes, patent protection must then be assured and a manufacturing line developed.

Business issues must also be resolved: financing, marketing, pricing, promotion, and so on. A lack of disclosure is normal at this stage because Rossi and his device have competitors and investor protection laws can severely penalize ill-chosen disclosures.

Plausibly, what Cherokee Partners may even fear that LENR devices could end up being like solar energy and biofuels: technologically proven, but limited in application and so expensive that they provide but slight competition for fossil fuels. If that is the case, then Cherokee Partners is likely to lose their investment even though LENR and Rossi devices actually work in a technical sense.

34 posted on 01/31/2014 8:43:44 PM PST by Rockingham
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To: Mad Dawgg

The quest for LENR has a lot of parallels to the development of the transconductance varistor. First conceived in the mid 1920’s, suitable materials were not available for research until the mid 1940’s.

Pure and uniform crystalline synthesis for diode rectifiers enabled research into solid form amplifiers. The laboratory curiosities were fragile and misunderstood, prone to erratic behavior. Theories evolved, practical embodiments conceived, and considerable engineering around impediments achieved within a decade.

If the analogy is sufficiently accurate, then commercial practicality will occur within 5 years, and market driven development will take precedence. Though 60 years have elapsed since market viability for transistors, a much steeper application curve for LENR may be within reach, considering broad knowledge advances achieved within that time frame.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_the_transistor


35 posted on 01/31/2014 9:05:14 PM PST by Ozark Tom
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To: saganite

Of course it doesn’t impress you. You won’t be impressed until a LENR space shuttle crashlands on your lawn, and then you’ll just sue NASA because you never liked LENR in the first place.

If you’re honest, you’ll address this question: Does the fact that Rossi has some funding from verifiable, credible and ordinarily rational source mean that this forwards his claim?


36 posted on 01/31/2014 9:46:46 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Aqua225

Only gonna post once, Kevin O’Malley can flame to the end of time against, don’t care.
***If that were true then the multiple LENR threads that were pulled would have been allowed to stand. You only complain when I put up with dozens of Adam Henry comments and the mods leave the thread up.

Kevmo doesn’t understand the difference between watts and Joules,
***Horse manure. I asked on that thread where this was demonstrated. Crickets from all of you.

even though he has a verifiable, if questionable, degree in electric engineering.
***Like you said, verifiable.

Kevmo does not have a degree in hard physics,
***If that were the requirement to discuss science or LENR, there would only be 3 FReepers on these threads and 2 of them I would doubt their credentials. People with advanced physics degrees can’t even seem to get past freshman level critical thinking logical fallacies. Sheesh.

but speaks the LENR mumbo jumbo in every post. I have admitted my lack of hard physics training, but I am not the only one.
***I’ve admitted mine. I got an A in Nuclear physics but never used it. Most of the freepers (and certainly the vast majority of skeptopaths) do not even have that much training.

Blacklight’s big feb 28th never made the news.
***And we’ve been discussing that on the blacklight thread. Your posting behavior is as addlepated as your position on LENR.

Checked their website, and its the same junk as their original post reposted by Kevmo.
***Which we have been posting on the... you guessed it... Blacklight thread. Sheesh.

Only mentions watts, never a joule. Which is absolutely useless.
***And no doubt you will be able to explain that, since you went out of your way to suggest that I don’t know the difference but can’t show where that took place. Have you? No. Will you? Nope.

Take care all, watch your wallets.
***Oh, your thoughtful concern for fraud is duly noted. Concern troll is concerned. Isn’t that wonderful? Of course, the concern troll is silent when it comes to the hundreds of $billions pissed down the fraud rathole of Controlled-Hot-Fusion (CHF) and that was PUBLIC money rather than private money. So is the concern troll truly concerned about fraud? No. The concern troll has taken an AdamHenryBandWagon assessment and jumped on to the appropriate bandwagon. It ain’t concern that drives you or we’d see you on those CHF threads, loudly screaming about the fraud.


37 posted on 01/31/2014 9:56:27 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Mad Dawgg

Yep, and I hear the same when I ask the Bigfoot hunters why the haven’t caught one yet. Ditto for Nessie...
***Has Nessie or Bigfoot findings been replicated 14000 times like LENR? No. Are there multi$billion measurement companies saying that there is a verifiable Anomaly here? No.

It either works or it don’t.
***Wow, what a brilliant logical position you have stated. It just blows my hair back. /s, just for you.

If it sorta works well its just a curious little tech that can’t be used.
***Bowlsheet, bull$#!+, bullshiite. If it is a curious little tech that shows 10,000 times the energy density of gasoline then it CAN be used. You just don’t understand what it takes to get there from here.

Electric generators work when you flip a switch.
***Invalid comparison. How well did electric generators work when they were first being experimented on? Not well at all. How well did jet engines work in their first wartime encounters? More pilots were killed by malfunctions than enemy planes were shot down.

Its why they are viable. And even if they don’t work sometimes 99.99999% of the time a technician can explain why and remedy the situation.
***Geez, look at how incredibly ignorant such a statement is. Technicians 100 years later can do so, but when that technology was in its infancy like LENR is, very very very few technicians could do so. That you don’t know this is very telling.

If they can’t with this gizmo then its just a curiosity
***Almost every technology, including your precious generators, started out as a curiosity.

and they need to quit promising what they can’t deliver 100%
***Then we need to stop funding controlled-hot-fusion CHF technology RIGHT NOW. They’ve pissed hundreds of $billions down that fraud rathole, and they aren’t even at .0001%. The latest round of LENR experiments yielded about 50%.

So they need to get it back in the shop/lab and STFU and work till its right OR until they give up.
***I agree, not only should CHF guys STFU but they should start giving money to the cold fusion guys who have generated far better results with far fewer resources.

If they want to shut they naysayers up there is 100% surefire way to do so. Put a unit out in public and produce energy not for a few minutes but for weeks and months and if need be years.
***And exactly how does a lone inventor get to such a stage? Well, he sells part of his company to an investor (Let’s just use a name like Cherokee Investments, sound good to you) and then they go into production and sell units & give royalties to the inventor. Gosh, thanks for giving us that wonderful insight that you have on this process. It’s almost like you’re an oracle or something.

Until you get to that stage its vapor ware and perpetual motion...
***Like the Wright brothers. Until they had public demos it was vaporware. Yeah, right.


38 posted on 01/31/2014 10:07:58 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Mad Dawgg

BUT I keep hearing claims. Spouting off about something you can’t or won’t prove creates doubt and negative publicity.
***I’ve been involved with several projects that had to announce before they were ready. And those were relatively straightforward, mature technology.

What is the purpose of such? Ego?
***In Rossi’s case for 2 years it was loyalty to a friend, Focardi. They knew that Ecat wasn’t ready but Focardi had cancer and wanted his recognition before he was gone. So Rossi relented and produced the crappiest set of demos since , well, since the Wright brothers could get their machine to start in their attempted press conference in 1904.

If they can’t reveal a working model of LENR or whatever is called then they should create the LENR club...
***Why should he? He’s upgrading his design and showing it to investors and getting ready for production. That’s what you’d do, isn’t it? Would you have some reason to reveal your secret sauce to the world and forgo $billions in profit?

And guess what the first rule of LENR club is? [/Fight Club reference]
***Stupid reference. Might as well quote one of the Ferengi rules of acquisition. It would be just as profound and... you guessed it... just as fictional. The fact that you use fiction to prop up your argument is quite telling about how useful your argument is.


39 posted on 01/31/2014 10:14:37 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Wonder Warthog

I knew this was a free download.

Best book to get started on this subject:
EXCESS HEAT
Why Cold Fusion Research Prevailed
Free Download:

http://iccf9.global.tsinghua.edu.cn/lenr%20home%20page/acrobat/BeaudetteCexcessheat.pdf


40 posted on 01/31/2014 11:03:36 PM PST by Kevmo ("A person's a person, no matter how small" ~Horton Hears a Who)
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To: Kevmo
"The fact that you use fiction to prop up your argument is quite telling about how useful your argument is."

Well its extremely tricky you see.

But you confirmed my assumption Ego was the cause to talk about something before it was ready to be introduced to the world.

Doesn't matter who's ego...

When I can plug my Kindle into and charge it to full just like my wall outlet will do I'll get excited until that time it's just another Bigfoot hunt...

Here is hoping Bigfoot is finally caught...

BTW you get all bent out of shape in your earlier reply but you seem to do that when someone asks to see a working model that actually produces energy...

And you keep bringing up the Wright Brothers. Well here is an idea use them as your guide. Start the engine and throttle her up and start flying. Until the Wright Brothers did that they had a cool idea. Afterwards they were in the aviation industry.

If these guys want to move from cool idea to being in the energy industry then charge a kindle, light a light bulb, run an AC unit, make a fan work, power a computer etc.

Otherwise STFU and get back in the lab and get it done.

Edison demonstrated his system for the public to see. 134 years ago in Menlo Park New Jersey Tom hooked up a bunch of lights in and around his lab and lit up neighboring buildings as well to show off his improvements to the light bulb.

So if this guy has a working model he's got till December 31st 2014 to hit the 135 anniversary. What a hoot if he could recreate the atmosphere in the same spot with a new cheap form of energy and light up some of the replicas of the original Edison bulbs.

That's how you do it. Not claim shit and then say, "Its extremely tricky" when someone asks why you don't show it to the world.

41 posted on 01/31/2014 11:51:49 PM PST by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
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To: DoughtyOne

Exactly.


42 posted on 02/01/2014 1:44:43 AM PST by glock rocks (If you like your health plan, you're a racist !)
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To: FatherofFive
$11 mm? This seems like BS. $11 BILLION for a new energy source would be cheap. This is chump change in the energy world.

$11M seems reasonable, for something that shows promise, but still needs a lot of R&D spending to see if it will ever turn into a viable product, in an environment where most doubt it will ever work.

Now we need to see if they can come out with a demo of long-term operation under rigorous testing conditions.

43 posted on 02/01/2014 6:24:33 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: saganite
He didn’t sell it to himself since he doesn’t own the company but as chief scientist he still has control over testing and implementation and if you’re familiar with his record that means there’s no possibility this company will get to see what the ECat will do.

No, "chief scientist" means he's an employee who either produces results with the resources provided, or gets fired and replaced.

I'm guessing Rossi's been given a budget and a deadline for getting this the e-cat to work, with probably some stock options if he succeeds.

44 posted on 02/01/2014 6:29:36 AM PST by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: Kevmo
Mike Markula bought a sizeable chunk of Apple for $250K.

A sizeable chunk is not the whole thing. Venture capital always take a sizeable chunk. But the owners keep a good chunk. Steve Jobs and Steve Wozniak kept enough to become billionaires. You have to give up equity to raise venture capital. But you don't give up your whole position.

45 posted on 02/01/2014 7:41:37 AM PST by FatherofFive (Islam is evil and must be eradicated)
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To: DoughtyOne
If this takes off, there’s not going to be enough pies for the faces of those who shot their mouth off here for years.

Perhaps the rest of us who were patient and urged folks to wait and see, had the right idea all along.

I can't imagine how much courage it must take to sit on the fence, remarkable.

46 posted on 02/01/2014 7:50:13 AM PST by Lx (Do you like it? Do you like it, Scott? I call it, "Mr. & Mrs. Tenorman Chili.")
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To: B4Ranch

There are plenty of upstart/renegade ibankers to fund this sort of thing.

IF there is a working prototype - it would logically receive all the funding it needed.

iBankers want to get rich, and there are plenty of them that don’t give a hoot about what Exxon thinks.

That line of thought is just nonsense.


47 posted on 02/01/2014 8:07:24 AM PST by Triple (Socialism denies people the right to the fruits of their labor, and is as abhorrent as slavery)
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To: PapaBear3625
I'm guessing Rossi's been given a budget and a deadline for getting this the e-cat to work, with probably some stock options if he succeeds.

The e-cat doesn't work?

48 posted on 02/01/2014 8:10:22 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Rockingham
The lack of public information and seeming slowness of development at this stage may be disappointing but it should not be taken as suspicious or negating the significance of the Cherokee Partners investment.

What do you mean slow? Rossi sold a huge working e-cat to a mysterious military agent some time ago.

49 posted on 02/01/2014 8:14:15 AM PST by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: Lx

Well, for a while there it took more courage than some anuses here could accept. You wouldn’t be one of them would you?


50 posted on 02/01/2014 8:57:29 AM PST by DoughtyOne (Amnesty is job NONE! It isn't even the leading issue with Hipanics.)
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