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Britain entering first world war was 'biggest error in modern history'
theguardian.com ^ | 30 January 2014 | Maev Kennedy

Posted on 01/31/2014 11:47:48 PM PST by Berlin_Freeper

Britain could have lived with a German victory in the first world war, and should have stayed out of the conflict in 1914, according to the historian Niall Ferguson, who described the intervention as "the biggest error in modern history".

In an interview with BBC History Magazine, Ferguson said there had been no immediate threat to Britain, which could have faced a Germany-dominated Europe at a later date on its own terms, instead of rushing in unprepared, which led to catastrophic costs.

"Britain could indeed have lived with a German victory. What's more, it would have been in Britain's interests to stay out in 1914," he said before a documentary based on his book The Pity of War, which will be screened by BBC2 as part of the broadcaster's centenary season.

(Excerpt) Read more at theguardian.com ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: milhist; wwi
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To: Berlin_Freeper

I think Germany winning WW 1 would have avoided WW 2. The Kaiser was far less imperialistic & evil than the Nazi’s. Had Germany not been financially decimated in the 20’s. Hitler would have never rose to power.


21 posted on 02/01/2014 3:46:58 AM PST by pithyinme (Oh great 3 more years of crap to wade through....)
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To: Southack

There is a new book out called “The Sleepwalkers. How Europe Went to War in 1914” by Christopher Clark. It is a detailed study of how European diplomats and government officials basically stumbled into the war. No one and no country comes out looking good, even less looking innocent. One of the most interesting parts of the book relate the political and economic advances of the Austrian and Slovak parts of the Austo-Hungarian Empire. It was an astonishingly modern state. It will probably be the definitive work on the subject from here on out. It’s available on Amazon and well worth the read.


22 posted on 02/01/2014 4:01:38 AM PST by Kolokotronis (Christ is Risen, and you, o death, are annihilated)
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To: Southack

We made pretty much these points in “Patriot’s History of the Modern World, vol. 1” The thing is, everyone, including the Brits, wanted the war. They were perhaps the least enthusiastic, but each nation saw advantages to a war, since none thought it would go on long. There is a good book on the German way of war that argues the Germany’s central position and lack of defensible borders dictated all strategy since Napoleon and emphasized the offensive.


23 posted on 02/01/2014 4:26:23 AM PST by LS ('Castles made of sand, fall in the sea . . . eventually.' Hendrix)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

The U. S. made a huge mistake getting involved. WWI changed the world for the worse in most every way.

It’s hard to imagine German dominance over France ending worse than the post-war history did.


24 posted on 02/01/2014 4:49:15 AM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Southack

Excellent summation.


25 posted on 02/01/2014 4:52:38 AM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Olog-hai

1914 France was not benign. Germany would not have taken France as a new territory.

Second, France also should have stayed out of the Balkan conflict. France making a mistake is not good reason to follow.


26 posted on 02/01/2014 4:56:14 AM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

The big error from which everything else flowed was the progressives’ “captive nations” fantasy. Many examples abound.

Who can doubt the the Turk knew how to sort out the Arabs? How can the Eastern European microstates compete with Germany and Russia? Even today, in the Western fantasy of a unitary, imaginary “Ukraine” within its present borders there is nothing but smoke and bloodshed.

We need an Emperor in Vienna, and a Sultan in Constantinople, along with a Czar in St. Petersburg.

And the Dodgers in Brooklyn.

Then, there will be peace.


27 posted on 02/01/2014 5:04:01 AM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: Olog-hai
And what justification was there for violating Belgium’s neutrality?

What was the justification for a "Belgium" to begin with?

28 posted on 02/01/2014 5:05:28 AM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: SampleMan
The U. S. made a huge mistake getting involved.

116,000 dead in less than 18 months.

29 posted on 02/01/2014 5:07:11 AM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

!


30 posted on 02/01/2014 6:09:29 AM PST by skinkinthegrass (The end move in politics is always to pick up a gun..0'Caligula / 0'Reid / 0'Pelosi)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

It left a permanent scar on the British psyche: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PQm3qfjhGB4


31 posted on 02/01/2014 6:34:25 AM PST by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: Southack

Evrerything you said is true and rational, but the powers that be insist that moloch be fed. Even now.


32 posted on 02/01/2014 6:38:31 AM PST by Sirius Lee (All that is required for evil to advance is for government to do "something")
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To: Jim Noble

As bad as that sounds, it is roughly 1% of the overall death toll of that war.


33 posted on 02/01/2014 6:40:50 AM PST by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Berlin_Freeper

Prof. Ferguson fails to address the Treaties in force in 1914 where Great Britain was a signatory.In a rewrite of history Great Britain gets the blame and the fun loving Germans get a pass.

Remember:-Letter from Kaiser Wilhelm II to the Emperor of Austria in the early days of the war, in which the German Emperor wrote:

“My soul is torn asunder, but everything must be put to fire and blood. The throats of men and women, children and the aged must be cut, and not a tree or a house left standing.

With such methods of terror, which alone can strike so degenerate a people as the French, the war will finish before two months, while if I use humanitarian methods, it may prolong for years. Despite all my repugnance, I have had to choose the first system.”

The Germans learned from Shermans march to the sea.


34 posted on 02/01/2014 6:51:12 AM PST by managusta (The first sign of maturity is the discovery that the volume knob also turns to the left.)
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To: pithyinme

It’s slightly tangential but, per a book about the 1918 flu epidemic, if Wilson had remained healthy he would have been able to continue to deter France from vindictive terms imposed on Germany. He fell ill so France got their way, hence Hitler.


35 posted on 02/01/2014 6:59:53 AM PST by pa_dweller (Extremist tea-party-driven hostage-taking legislative arsonist without a life)
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To: DuncanWaring

Of course, I didn’t post that as a comparison with the catastrophic losses of France and the UK. I’ve been to the public school chapels in London, I understand the scope of the disaster - a disaster that we are still paying for, IMO.

I was surprised that the waste of young American lives was so high in such a brief time, that’s all.


36 posted on 02/01/2014 7:02:45 AM PST by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise.)
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To: Rich21IE

I would have loved to been a fly, or several flies, on the wall back then. It’s almost like someone was pulling the strings to get everything in place, then light the match so they could bring about that complete change in the world order.

Basically after that all of the major monarchies fell and we started this dance toward the One World Govt thing. I really truly wonder sometimes if the whole thing wasn’t orchestrated for exactly that.


37 posted on 02/01/2014 7:22:56 AM PST by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead...)
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To: Rich21IE
An entire generation of men were all but wiped out in France which explains their inability to field an army of substance for WWII.

Not exactly. At least by itself.

German suffered very nearly the same percentage losses, and seems to have been able to field an army of substance quite nicely.

38 posted on 02/01/2014 7:26:57 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Berlin_Freeper

I’ve a lot of respect for Mr. Ferguson, but this one is a little silly.

Since at least the Glorious Revolution of 1688, it’s been THE cornerstone of British foreign policy to prevent the Continent being dominated by a single power.

This is for the fairly obvious reason that Britain is an island. It’s historically been protected against invasion by its fleet.

The fleet-building capacity of the Continent, if united, was much greater than that of Britain. But as long as the Continent was divided, Britain could defeat any likely invasion fleet.

Unite the Continent, spend five years building a fleet, and the RN could be utterly overwhelmed.

Solution, prevent the Continent from uniting. Thus Britain’s traditional opposition to Philip II, Louis XIV, Napoleon and Kaiser Bil.


39 posted on 02/01/2014 7:37:34 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: managusta
The throats of men and women, children and the aged must be cut, and not a tree or a house left standing... The Germans learned from Shermans march to the sea.

Except, of course, that Sherman did no such thing.

The notion that Sherman invented total war is really, really silly.

Read up on the chevauchées of the 100 Years War. Not to mention the 30 Years' War and most other early modern wars.

40 posted on 02/01/2014 7:42:04 AM PST by Sherman Logan
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