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Progressives and The Second Amendment
Roderick T. Beaman

Posted on 02/13/2014 12:56:58 PM PST by crazylibertarian

The Second Amendment to The United States Constitution reads thus: “A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.” A Jacksonville, Florida progressive has stated that this means the right belongs to the militia, not the people as stated in the second part of the sentence.

This has been an argument from Leftists for decades, including the American Civil Liberties Union, which has never given up its goal of placing this country under an economic dictatorship. ACLU sponsors leftist talk shows but has NEVER give a penny, that I know of, in sponsorship of any libertarian talk show despite their devotion, at least as strong, to The Constitution. You see, true libertarians are proponents of freedom, ACLUers and progressives are proponents of enslavement to the government which they think of as them.

A logically parallel statement to the Second Amendment would be: A good cake being necessary to a wedding celebration, the right to buy and have an oven, shall not be infringed. What is the goal and who would have the right, the people or just the wedding celebrants?

No progressive will address this because no progressive can.


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: banglist; secondamendment

1 posted on 02/13/2014 12:56:58 PM PST by crazylibertarian
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To: crazylibertarian

If the liberals felt about gun rights the way they do abortion or obamacare, we’d be required to pay for other people’s guns whenever they wanted one, and we’d have to buy one ourselves or pay a fine (err tax).


2 posted on 02/13/2014 1:02:29 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: crazylibertarian

Not a single one of the Bill of Rights refers to a group right. They are all rights of the individual.


3 posted on 02/13/2014 1:05:09 PM PST by mkmensinger
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To: crazylibertarian

Everyone is part of the militia whether you join one or not. It has been on the law books for well over two hundred years and was slightly modified to split the difference between the organized militia (National Guard) and the unorganized militia (everyone else).

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/311

10 U.S. Code § 311 - Militia: composition and classes

(a) The militia of the United States consists of all able-bodied males at least 17 years of age and, except as provided in section 313 of title 32, under 45 years of age who are, or who have made a declaration of intention to become, citizens of the United States and of female citizens of the United States who are members of the National Guard.
(b) The classes of the militia are—
(1) the organized militia, which consists of the National Guard and the Naval Militia; and
(2) the unorganized militia, which consists of the members of the militia who are not members of the National Guard or the Naval Militia.


4 posted on 02/13/2014 1:07:18 PM PST by Blood of Tyrants (Haven't you lost enough freedoms? Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: crazylibertarian

Even so, if in fact it did mean militia, militia’s are not traditionally the equivalent of the countries army, standing or otherwise.

If true, we could actually form civilian militias and actually push the agenda towards allowing more powerful weapons to actually be a viable militia.

But I like the current interpretation better.


5 posted on 02/13/2014 1:09:04 PM PST by Usagi_yo (Standardization is an Evolutionary dead end.)
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To: crazylibertarian
A logically parallel statement to the Second Amendment would be:

A well regulated Militia Internet, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms Modems, shall not be infringed.

6 posted on 02/13/2014 1:10:17 PM PST by MosesKnows (Love many, trust few, and always paddle your own canoe.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

...except that the militia is variantly either the whole of the people; or all male citizens from 17 and 45, or older if they previously served in the military.


7 posted on 02/13/2014 1:12:07 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: Blood of Tyrants

Thanks for posting the text.


8 posted on 02/13/2014 1:14:55 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: mkmensinger

It’s a asinine argument, if the Second Amendment was solely direct to militias why would it even mention the right of the people to keep and bear arms? It would be the same as me arguing that the First Amendment was directed solely to the press and not ordinary citizens.


9 posted on 02/13/2014 1:16:55 PM PST by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: lepton

thanks for missing my point.


10 posted on 02/13/2014 1:19:11 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

I didn’t miss your point. I missed post#1.


11 posted on 02/13/2014 1:20:54 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: crazylibertarian

The argument you are making was the main thrust of the Heller decision. The first phrase (why they thought it was a good idea) CANNOT modify the protection laid out in the second phrase. It is simply no logical that it would.


12 posted on 02/13/2014 1:24:04 PM PST by thorvaldr
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To: Secret Agent Man

There were several early laws which required just that: that the militia be fully armed, that they be regulated by minimum standards of personally owned firearms and sufficient personal ammunition on hand, and provision for the poor to have arms and ammunition purchased for them.


13 posted on 02/13/2014 1:24:34 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: All

Progressives and The Second Amendment....

I am sick and tired of this “progressive” BS!!!!!!!!!!
Call ‘em what they are...Socialist liberals....


14 posted on 02/13/2014 1:26:47 PM PST by JW1949
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To: Secret Agent Man
If the liberals felt about gun rights the way they

If liberals regarded the 2nd Amendment with the same regard they have for the 1st Amendment they would demand that everyone be armed … all the time.

The liberals view the ACLU's defense of the 1st Amendment as a good thing and at the same time they view the NRA's defense of the 2nd Amendment as a bad thing.

15 posted on 02/13/2014 1:27:42 PM PST by MosesKnows (Love many, trust few, and always paddle your own canoe.)
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To: All

These people have nothing to promote “progress” in this country...NOTHING!!!!!!!!!!

They have actually done just the opposite....

Maybe we ought to refer to them as “regressives”.....


16 posted on 02/13/2014 1:29:15 PM PST by JW1949
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To: Secret Agent Man
If the liberals felt about gun rights the way they do abortion or obamacare, we’d be required to pay for other people’s guns...

OK, I think I understand the whole progressive temptation a little better now, because I just flashed on Dianne Feinstein being made to buy me an AR...and the idea felt good...

17 posted on 02/13/2014 1:32:31 PM PST by Billthedrill
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To: crazylibertarian

I support 2A, but I think they could have worded it better.

The commas seem to be placed at random.


18 posted on 02/13/2014 1:32:45 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: Billthedrill

HA! Great thought. I hadn’t actually thought about how they’d feel having to do that. But in my scenario they’d enjoy it because they would feel just as strongly about 2A as they do about abortion/obamacare.


19 posted on 02/13/2014 1:36:20 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: crazylibertarian

Progressivism is based on a circular argument.

Progress is defined as what progressives work for, and progressives as those who work for progress.

Always left out of the discussion is what direction society should move towards for it to be progress.


20 posted on 02/13/2014 1:36:47 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: MosesKnows

exactly.


21 posted on 02/13/2014 1:37:11 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: lepton

Made sense as they would all be the ones comprising the army (if pressed into service) at the time.

Swiss still have this idea. Israel too.


22 posted on 02/13/2014 1:39:11 PM PST by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Our second amendment was put forth after our Founding Fathers studied the Swiss model. They did quite a bit of review on the subject. They’d seen the powers the Swiss had stood up to for centuries, with militia, and many feared a standing army.


23 posted on 02/13/2014 2:31:51 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: crazylibertarian; All

If y’all want to read a really good book about this subject and it’s history, check out, “That Every Man Be Armed,” by Stephen P. Halbrook. I listen to the audiobook when I’m at work. Excellent stuff.


24 posted on 02/13/2014 2:40:58 PM PST by RandallFlagg ("I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it." --Quigley)
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To: lepton

I’ve always thought that the phrase “well regulated” meant “efficient/proficient/skilled/accurate.” Re: “Regulator clocks.”

Regulated” by your interpretation has the meaning of “...bound by law/required.”

In context, using my understanding of the word regulated, the law reads “a skilled militia, being necessary to the security of a free state,....”

Try inserting your definition into the 2nd Amendment.....

Note I resist any interpretation of words that believes that the 2nd Amendment refers to any of limitation or requirement on the People.


25 posted on 02/13/2014 2:46:25 PM PST by Forty-Niner (The barely bare, berry bear formally known as Ursus Arctos Horribilis....,I')
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To: crazylibertarian

bkmk


26 posted on 02/13/2014 3:20:46 PM PST by Sergio (An object at rest cannot be stopped! - The Evil Midnight Bomber What Bombs at Midnight)
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To: Forty-Niner

Regulated” by your interpretation has the meaning of “...bound by law/required.”


No. By my definition, it means it be kept in good working order, with maintained functionality. The referenced laws were what made it mandatory.

On a related note, early court rulings also said that substantial state restrictions on firearms were unconstitutional on the grounds that the states and the union could not deprive each other of a functional militia. I haven’t seen where that was overturned...just ignored.


27 posted on 02/13/2014 5:23:36 PM PST by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: crazylibertarian

Since all males at the age of 18 are required to register for selective service, I’m thinking that pretty much constitutes a militia.


28 posted on 02/13/2014 10:24:08 PM PST by mikefive (RLTW)
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To: Mastador1
It’s a asinine argument, if the Second Amendment was solely direct to militias why would it even mention the right of the people to keep and bear arms? It would be the same as me arguing that the First Amendment was directed solely to the press and not ordinary citizens.
. . . and you actually think that journalists respect the right to freedom of the press for anyone other than themselves?

29 posted on 02/14/2014 4:50:01 AM PST by conservatism_IS_compassion ("Liberalism” is a conspiracy against the public by wire-service journalism.)
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