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2 Die in Howard County Shoveling Snow
Washington-CBS ^

Posted on 02/18/2014 3:39:52 AM PST by sodpoodle

COLUMBIA, Md. — Two men in Howard County have died after suffering medical emergencies while shoveling snow, and a third died when he collapsed outside in the snow.

(Excerpt) Read more at washington.cbslocal.com ...


TOPICS: Local News; Weather
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In a statement Thursday, Howard County Executive Ken Ulman urged residents to help neighbors with shoveling if they need it.

“This is deep, heavy snow, and I implore everyone to take it easy. Please don’t over-exert yourself. Clear a little at a time. Or ask a neighbor to help,” he said. ---------------------------------------------------------- Probably felt compelled to follow a County ordinance that mandates homeowners clean sidewalks adjacent to their (private) property for which they pay taxes. Counties should be required to clear sidewalks - same as the roads. How do the local dictators expect seniors and disabled home-owners to venture out in these deplorable conditions and clear "their" sidewalks. Who is using them?????

1 posted on 02/18/2014 3:39:52 AM PST by sodpoodle
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To: sodpoodle

As a youth I bought a lot of cool stuff by shoveling old folks snow. Actually rooting for bad weather then.


2 posted on 02/18/2014 3:46:24 AM PST by vicar7 ("Polls are for strippers and cross-country skiers" Sarah Palin)
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To: sodpoodle
This is deep, heavy snow, and I implore everyone to take it easy. Please don’t over-exert yourself. Clear a little at a time. Or ask a neighbor to help

Scratches head, thinking OK you're asking your neighbor to have a heart attack for you. I guess that makes as much sense as anything government comes up with.

Probably felt compelled to follow a County ordinance that mandates homeowners clean sidewalks adjacent to their (private) property for which they pay taxes

One can only hope that those who died voted for the jerks who passed that ordinance

3 posted on 02/18/2014 3:55:12 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: vicar7

If the neighborhood has teens with shovels and the seniors can afford to pay them - that works great.

My complaint is with the regulations that counties impose on property owners who are burdened with fines for not clearing sidewalks within certain time limits. Especially stressful when there are multiple snow events.

My neighbor was intimidated by the police stopping at his home and warning him to clear his property - he had just moved in and was unaware there was a “law”. Stroke time!!!


4 posted on 02/18/2014 3:57:56 AM PST by sodpoodle (Life is prickly - carry tweezers.)
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To: sodpoodle; Tolerance Sucks Rocks

MD ping....


5 posted on 02/18/2014 3:59:55 AM PST by momtothree
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To: from occupied ga

I believe that rule is pretty common throughout the ‘snow’ States.

What bedevils me is that the “sidewalk” is public property - so how come any private citizen is responsible to ‘keep it clean’???????


6 posted on 02/18/2014 4:00:25 AM PST by sodpoodle (Life is prickly - carry tweezers.)
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To: vicar7

Can’t find a kid to do the job. I have a disability and a heart condition so I can’t shovel snow. I have to pay a guy $35 to shovel. He’s made some serious money this winter.


7 posted on 02/18/2014 4:00:51 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: from occupied ga

Clearing sidewalks of snow and cutting grass are two pretty standard requirements in snowbelt cities and towns. Since this can be determined before one moves there, where’s the complaint?

There are many organizations and individuals who will help out if one is unable or can’t afford to do snow removal.


8 posted on 02/18/2014 4:08:42 AM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: fatnotlazy

Are you required to clear a sidewalk under penalty of law? Or is this shoveling to free your car and driveway?

Most old folks are ‘hunkered” down and why should they be forced to shovel ANY snow for ANY reason - or pay for it???

Pedestrians are not even using the “cleared” sidewalks in my neighborhood, they are walking in the street.!!!! Must be scared of the tree limbs;)


9 posted on 02/18/2014 4:10:56 AM PST by sodpoodle (Life is prickly - carry tweezers.)
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To: sodpoodle

That would be a public access easement on private property.


10 posted on 02/18/2014 4:11:07 AM PST by RedMDer (Happy with this, America? Make your voices heard. 2014 is just around the corner. ~ Sarah Palin)
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To: jjotto
where’s the complaint?

Ask the ones who died from a heart attack.

11 posted on 02/18/2014 4:13:15 AM PST by from occupied ga (Your government is your most dangerous enemy)
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To: jjotto

The complaint is the threat of punishment or fines for non-compliance.

What happens if you are stranded at an airport? Hospitalized? And how do you contact all those charitable organizations if you are new to the community???

Why are some citizens forced to clear sidewalks or pay to have it done and others are not. How is that legal?
Property taxes should cover costs of a County clean-up.


12 posted on 02/18/2014 4:18:31 AM PST by sodpoodle (Life is prickly - carry tweezers.)
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To: sodpoodle

In Howard and Montgomery County, the law is you must clear the sidewalks within a limited period of time after a snow storm. Each county has different time periods for the removal. If, for example, a person is on a trip when the snow storm occurs, they have to have sub-contracted with a snow removal service or have a contract with someone to remove the snow. What annoys me about this is the county will demand it BUT the county doesn’t remove snow obstructing the walk to bus stops. About ten years ago, our neighborhood’s civic association tried to get sidewalks installed. Many of the residents fought the sidewalk initiative for this very reason (and won). “How is that legal?” Answer: It’s Maryland. The greater good, don’t you know.


13 posted on 02/18/2014 4:26:08 AM PST by momtothree
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To: fatnotlazy

I didn’t see a single teen looking to help out or make a little money this year.


14 posted on 02/18/2014 4:26:31 AM PST by RedMDer (Happy with this, America? Make your voices heard. 2014 is just around the corner. ~ Sarah Palin)
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To: momtothree

****the law is you must clear the sidewalks within a limited period of time after a snow storm****

I will put the Cochran Firm on speed dial;)


15 posted on 02/18/2014 4:32:49 AM PST by sodpoodle (Life is prickly - carry tweezers.)
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To: sodpoodle

Snow shoveling is God’s way of telling me that I’m getting old!


16 posted on 02/18/2014 4:34:11 AM PST by Dr. Ursus
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To: from occupied ga

Heart attacks from snow shoveling are much, much more common than most people think. Cold weather in general sees a much higher rate of heart attacks.

A healthy older guy I knew died while using his snow blower on his neighbors’ driveway.


17 posted on 02/18/2014 4:39:37 AM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: sodpoodle

Anyone living in or owning property in areas that get snow knows the drill.


18 posted on 02/18/2014 4:41:51 AM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: sodpoodle
Pedestrians are not even using the “cleared” sidewalks in my neighborhood, they are walking in the street.!!!! Must be scared of the tree limbs;)
_____________________________________________
I walked sidewalks to get to work for decades, so I know a thing or two about snow and sidewalks. While traffic is an issue when walking in the street, it turns out to be the safest alternative. You will hardly ever find an entire block where the sidewalks are all shoveled. Even if they are, most will not be treated for ice and some melting during the day freezes back at night and once frozen takes half a day or more to unfreeze. Additionally, light overnight snow makes things even more treacherous since you can not see the frozen ice under the snow. The streets get plowed and treated and worked on by vehicle tires so it is the only place you can find a surface to walk on that reduces your likelihood of falling and injuring yourself. Getting out every day and commuting, whether by car or walking, will always be a challenge in a winter with heavy snow.
19 posted on 02/18/2014 4:47:13 AM PST by iontheball
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To: sodpoodle

There are some things a society does to benefit others. Shoveling the walk benefits people from having to walk on the street. Where I live I own the property from my house to the side walk. The green between the sidewalk and the street is not my own yet I cut it to be a good neighbor. How much would it cost to have the surrounding govt come by just to shovel your walk? Can you imagine the regulations they’d crush you with if they were, in fact, in charge of shoveling your walk? No bush or flower pots within 10’, no cars nearby, maybe no shoveling your driveway until the sidewalk’s been done first, it just goes on and on...


20 posted on 02/18/2014 4:50:25 AM PST by InvisibleChurch (http://thegatwickview.tumblr.com/ http://thepurginglutheran.tumblr.com/)
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To: jjotto

Knowing the ‘drill’ and accepting it are what prompted this discussion.

It is not established that the 2 deaths were a result of forced shoveling - but many people who are compelled to comply with ‘the drill’ might very well be putting their lives in danger. Men and women, young and old, neighbors and volunteers. Using snow blowing equipment also has risks, as well as using shovels.


21 posted on 02/18/2014 4:50:53 AM PST by sodpoodle (Life is prickly - carry tweezers.)
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To: sodpoodle
Counties should be required to clear sidewalks - same as the roads.

Any service the government provides costs 10 times more than if it were purchased from the free market. Just hang on a bit more. The robots are coming! The robots are coming!

22 posted on 02/18/2014 4:51:59 AM PST by Reeses
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To: RedMDer
I didn’t see a single teen looking to help out or make a little money this year.,/i>

Why should they? Manual labor builds the sort of character that leads to gainful employment, which we all know leads to "job lock" and other bad things.

23 posted on 02/18/2014 4:54:47 AM PST by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
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To: sodpoodle

Cold weather in general puts most people at much higher risk. That’s one of the reasons to move south for retirement, or least to a condo. Believe it or not, a lot of people would rather die of a heart attack shoveling snow at their own home rather than among strangers at a ‘retirement home’.

In the old days, kids would go door to door offering to shovel to pick up spending money, or the parents would order them to shovel older neighbors’ sidewalks and driveways.


24 posted on 02/18/2014 5:01:35 AM PST by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Reeses

***Any service the government provides .....***

And any compulsory (unpaid)labor is slavery;)


25 posted on 02/18/2014 5:12:56 AM PST by sodpoodle (Life is prickly - carry tweezers.)
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To: sodpoodle

In our municipality, builders are required to install sidewalks only on one side of the street — and they must be cleared of snow by the homeowner. When we went looking for a home here, about 30 years ago, I specifically instructed the real estate agent to show me only houses on the non-sidewalk side of the street. (I pity those poor souls who live on corner properties.)


26 posted on 02/18/2014 5:15:35 AM PST by Salvey
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To: Salvey

That was prescient;)

I believe the fines for non-compliance are $50. Not sure if that would be applicable for each snow event - like consecutive speeding tickets.

Seems like a warning would be the first reprimand. Law enforcement must have more important things to do.


27 posted on 02/18/2014 5:24:38 AM PST by sodpoodle (Life is prickly - carry tweezers.)
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To: sodpoodle

“Are you required to clear a sidewalk under penalty of law? Or is this shoveling to free your car and driveway?”

***

There is a municipal ordinance, but since I live among the “free stuff” crowd, the law is rarely enforced. However, there is a clause in my homeowners insurance to the effect that I must maintain the sidewalk. Not doing so could jeopardize payment by the insurance company should someone slip and fall. I might be on the hook for any claim.

When the weather gets bad, I don’t go out, so for myself snow shoveling is not essential. The only person who comes to the house is the mailman. He’s a nice guy, so I wouldn’t want him falling and getting hurt.


28 posted on 02/18/2014 5:31:55 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: sodpoodle
More proof that my attitude toward snow removal is the wise one.I believe in *natural* snow removal....God put it there,God will take it away.
29 posted on 02/18/2014 5:32:48 AM PST by Gay State Conservative (Obama: "I can do whatever I want")
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To: RedMDer

When I first moved into my house in 1989, there was a youngster who came to the door the first 2 years offering to shovel. He was so small, the shovel was bigger than he was. He didn’t do a good job, but it was entertaining watching him push this huge shovel around. I gave him $5 and you would have thought I had given him a fortune. He was so happy.

Haven’t seen him around since those first couple of years, so I suppose he moved away. Since then, there haven’t been any children offering to shovel snow. It’s just too much work for this younger generation.


30 posted on 02/18/2014 5:44:19 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: fatnotlazy

After shoveling my parents, god-parents and the elderly couple across the street for free, I used to make a lot of money shoveling the neighborhood sidewalks and driveways. Once I made $108 in one day and that was in the 60s. Big bucks then. I remember the amount because there was a telescope that I wanted and did buy. :)


31 posted on 02/18/2014 6:09:11 AM PST by RedMDer (Happy with this, America? Make your voices heard. 2014 is just around the corner. ~ Sarah Palin)
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To: Elsie
Take it easy out there in Indiana. Or give me a call.


32 posted on 02/18/2014 6:15:08 AM PST by Utah Binger (Southern Utah where the world comes to see America)
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To: Reeses

I did a quick calculation of labor costs etc., for clearing the sidewalk - neighbor(1) helping neighbor(2).

1. snow plow repair $100
1. labor 4 hours @ $10 per hour $40
1. gas for blower $5.00

2. travel to site gas $10
2. snow blower gas $5.00
2. labor 4 hours @ $10 per hour $40
3. 2nd worker 4 hours @ $10 per hour $40
4. salt de-icer $15.00

County saved $255.00 minimum


33 posted on 02/18/2014 6:18:21 AM PST by sodpoodle (Life is prickly - carry tweezers.)
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To: RedMDer
That would be a public access easement on private property.

No, sidewalks are located within a street right-of-way, not on private property. Normally, sidewalks are located one foot from the property line.

34 posted on 02/18/2014 6:20:29 AM PST by LSAggie
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To: RedMDer

You were raised with a work ethic. Unfortunately, so many young people don’t know what real work is. They want a job, but they don’t want to actually work. Today it seems people expect something for nothing. And they are raising their children that way.


35 posted on 02/18/2014 6:24:14 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: fatnotlazy

Give all those on welfare shovels. In order to get their bennies they must shovel. When there is no snow, give them brooms or rakes.


36 posted on 02/18/2014 6:29:42 AM PST by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: sodpoodle
1,000 words:


37 posted on 02/18/2014 6:42:44 AM PST by Reeses
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To: fatnotlazy

Why not get a walk behind self propelled snow blower. They last forever?


38 posted on 02/18/2014 6:51:46 AM PST by VRWCarea51
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To: sodpoodle

You forgot the taxes and health insurance!


39 posted on 02/18/2014 7:27:39 AM PST by US_MilitaryRules (Tastes like Heaven, Burns like Hell! Mmmmmm. What is it?)
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To: vicar7

AMEN!!

Today’s yoots would be having the heart attacks; the poor, overweight flab buckets!


40 posted on 02/18/2014 9:14:26 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Pollster1
Back in the day, I had a couple of nephews who were whining about wanting this or that for Christmas.

What they each got from me was a brand new snow shovel!

41 posted on 02/18/2014 9:17:34 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: VRWCarea51

I just got one this season.

It’s a LOT of work to keep that thing going straight, even when it is pulling.

I get CHAINS for it next year!


42 posted on 02/18/2014 9:18:52 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: hal ogen

HATER!!


43 posted on 02/18/2014 9:19:32 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Utah Binger

I wish I had that kind of money!

My 20HP 40 year old AC620, with a 4’ blade, died in front of the house right after I’d graded the snow off the drive from the first fall.

Wife says, “You SURE you don’t want to get a blower?”

Thank GOD I took her up on it!!!


44 posted on 02/18/2014 9:23:18 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: RedMDer
I remember the amount because there was a telescope that I wanted and did buy. :)

What kind did you get?

45 posted on 02/18/2014 9:24:10 AM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: VRWCarea51

I don’t have that much property. Short driveway and sidewalk.

Besides, thanks to a fragile heart, I can’t be out in the cold for more than a few minutes.

Otherwise, a snow blower would be helpful.


46 posted on 02/18/2014 9:24:16 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: hal ogen
Years ago, the poor in housing projects (at least around this area) were issued shovels, brooms and other implements. They were expected to maintain their property.

Can't do that anymore. It's cruel to the poor, doncha know.

47 posted on 02/18/2014 9:29:24 AM PST by fatnotlazy
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To: Elsie

A white one to look at the moon since we (USA) were planning on going there. LOL! I don’t remember but it had a motor to account for the rotation of the earth etc.


48 posted on 02/18/2014 9:30:03 AM PST by RedMDer
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To: sodpoodle

RIP.


49 posted on 02/18/2014 10:34:26 AM PST by fieldmarshaldj (Resist We Much)
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To: RedMDer
A white one...

I love it!

As a young man; I lusted about a Questar: they had the neatest ads in Scientific American (may it rest in peace) and the coolest tube I'd ever seen!

Twenty years later, I finally got a 4" Meade (Black - 'cause I was gonna use it at night ;^) Schmidt-Cassegrain with motor drive.

50 posted on 02/18/2014 12:06:58 PM PST by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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