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Towns Say 'No Tanks' to Militarized Police
Wall Street Journal ^ | February 6, 2014 | JENNIFER LEVITZ CONNECT

Posted on 02/20/2014 7:51:31 AM PST by Altariel

Residents in some towns have begun standing up to the large armored vehicles that local police departments are receiving from the federal government.

Six-figure grants from the Department of Homeland Security have been funding BearCats and other heavily fortified vehicles in towns and cities nationwide since soon after the 2001 terrorist attacks. Beginning last summer, the government also has handed out 200 surplus vehicles built to withstand mines and bombs in Iraq and Afghanistan, and is considering requests from 750 more communities.

Most police and citizens welcome the extra protection, saying recent mass shootings show any local force could find itself facing an extremely violent or dangerous situation. But antipathy has grown in some pockets of the country—from New York to Ohio to California—which see the machines as symbols of government waste and a militarization of law enforcement, including the growth of SWAT teams and high-tech gadgets in recent decades.

In libertarian-leaning New Hampshire, a state lawmaker just introduced a bill that would ban municipalities from accepting military-style vehicles without approval from voters. That came in response to the Concord City Council's vote in the fall to accept a $258,000 federal grant to buy a BearCat, despite intense opposition from citizens who submitted a 1,500-signature petition and rallied outside City Hall holding signs that said, "More Mayberry, Less Fallujah" and "Thanks But No Tanks!"

(Excerpt) Read more at online.wsj.com ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: donutwatch; newhampshire; policestate
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1 posted on 02/20/2014 7:51:31 AM PST by Altariel
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To: Altariel

2 posted on 02/20/2014 7:53:12 AM PST by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: Altariel

HB 1307

http://www.gencourt.state.nh.us/legislation/2014/HB1307.html


3 posted on 02/20/2014 7:54:28 AM PST by Altariel ("Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!")
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To: Altariel
Most police and citizens welcome the extra protection, saying recent mass shootings show any local force could find itself facing an extremely violent or dangerous situation.

This is just specious bullsh!t. Most of the types of 'mass shootings' this 'writer' tries to ascribe to this stupid statement were OVER before the police got there, or before they even had time to get a lumbering MRAP on scene.

In reality, she has no basis for the statement save the Democrat Dogma that says "Democrat government (police) good, Conservative (police) bad."

4 posted on 02/20/2014 8:00:33 AM PST by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: Altariel

Burn them.


5 posted on 02/20/2014 8:02:49 AM PST by Noumenon (Resistance. Restoration. Retribution.)
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To: FReepers
'Weapons of war have no place on our streets,'
US President Barack Obama said on February 4, 2013

REALLY?

Click The Pic To Donate

Support FR, Donate Monthly If You Can

6 posted on 02/20/2014 8:05:08 AM PST by DJ MacWoW (The Fed Gov is not one ring to rule them all)
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To: DJ MacWoW

Somebody needs to send that Utube of the burning APC to every police chief in the country. So far there has not been a single incident since 911 that really required the police to have an APC.


7 posted on 02/20/2014 8:16:20 AM PST by Oldexpat
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To: Altariel


8 posted on 02/20/2014 8:16:44 AM PST by granite (The heart of the wise inclines to the right, but the heart of the fool to the left - Ecclest 10:2)
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To: Altariel

I don’t have an issue with military surplus vehicles being gifted to localities. I remember growing up in rural New England where the small towns all had various combinations of surplus deuce and a halfs, halftracks, DUKWs and Dodge 3/4 ton weapons carriers. Which were gifted under the auspices of “civil defense” and proved pretty useful in things like weather related emergencies.

These vehicles are paid for and have good capabilities in the “heavy rescue” area. However they SHOULDNT go to the PDs so that local cops can swagger around in black fatigues/ tac gear thinking that they’re suddenly SWAT. They should be painted Red or yellow or dayglo green and handed to local FDs/emergency rescue orgs.


9 posted on 02/20/2014 8:16:48 AM PST by tanknetter
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To: DJ MacWoW

Obama’s civilian army, as well equipped as the real army and commanded by sycophants who are happy to surrender your freedom for their promotions. AKA Hitler’s Brown Shirts morphing into the SS.


10 posted on 02/20/2014 8:18:23 AM PST by Don Corleone ("Oil the gun..eat the cannoli. Take it to the Mattress.")
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To: Noumenon
Burn them.

We will.

11 posted on 02/20/2014 8:22:02 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: Altariel; COUNTrecount; Nowhere Man; FightThePower!; C. Edmund Wright; jacob allen; Travis McGee; ..

Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping!

To get onto The Nut-job Conspiracy Theory Ping List you must threaten to report me to the Mods if I don't add you to the list...

12 posted on 02/20/2014 8:23:20 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: tanknetter

Then you are a Gute Deutschland Volk! This is really a bad Idea. Millions of Americans do not trust the police now. This just adds to the apprehension. We are not in Baghdad. We are in American cities.. It is like the Germans rolling into Warsaw in their Sdkfzs during World War two.. And to many millions of us that are American Citizens and have done nothing wrong which most Police killings have show lately it really bothers us..


13 posted on 02/20/2014 8:27:24 AM PST by crazydad (Obamamohamed is a traitor)
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To: crazydad

I believe I made it clear that I don’t think these things should be going to the cops. Sorry you missed that part of my post.

However, they are free, and are a heck of a lot more capable than a Tahoe or Suburban when it comes to accessing remote areas impacted by things like bad storms.


14 posted on 02/20/2014 8:34:24 AM PST by tanknetter
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To: Noumenon
Burn them.

I counted about a dozen Molotov cocktails on that vid of the APC being taken out in the Ukraine yesterday. Now, (breaking out calculator, buttons clicking), I figure that's about 8 gallons of gas if they were wine bottles, maybe a buck or two for the cloth, and they you have to buy a lighter...call it 30 bucks, tops. Don't know what the APC cost but I'm willing to bet they'd let it go for real cheap right now...

15 posted on 02/20/2014 8:39:58 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Altariel

I am going to tell you why I think it is a mistake to turn down military gear for police departments.

That gear is as close to being in the hands of the people as it could possibly be without giving it directly to the people.

Not all cops and people woking for the cops are fans of slavery.

Folks the three choices are:

1. Do nothing and resolve yourself and your families to being slaves or maybe serfs of the empire and the emperor.

2. SECEDE.

3. And if this is your choice then you will want that military gear within arms reach, Revolution aka civil war.

Choices one and three are not options for me.


16 posted on 02/20/2014 8:40:32 AM PST by The_Republic_Of_Maine
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To: The_Republic_Of_Maine

[ I am going to tell you why I think it is a mistake to turn down military gear for police departments.

That gear is as close to being in the hands of the people as it could possibly be without giving it directly to the people.

Not all cops and people woking for the cops are fans of slavery.

Folks the three choices are:

1. Do nothing and resolve yourself and your families to being slaves or maybe serfs of the empire and the emperor.

2. SECEDE.

3. And if this is your choice then you will want that military gear within arms reach, Revolution aka civil war.

Choices one and three are not options for me. ]

Excellent Point!


17 posted on 02/20/2014 8:50:31 AM PST by GraceG
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To: The_Republic_Of_Maine

The problem with military gear is that it requires too much rear area support. If the tires aren’t a common tires then one flat and you have a pile of scrap metal. If the engine isn’t a common one then same thing if any part fails. When it comes time to change the oil and air filters if you can’t get replacements at the NAPA auto parts store then you’re in trouble once more.

If the vehicle is top heavy, how many drivers in your town are fully capable of knowing just what side incline will the vehicle safely traverse? Have you ever driven a two ton truck that weighs as much as a ten ton truck? With armor plating that’s what these things are like.

If we ever do have CWll (and I pray we don’t) let the military operate the military equipment and let us civilians determine how to mess with their supply lines.


18 posted on 02/20/2014 8:54:52 AM PST by B4Ranch (Name your illness, do a Google & YouTube search with "hydrogen peroxide". Do it and be surprised.)
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To: Billthedrill

That was the picture I had in mind. Expensive vehicle. Cheap kill.


19 posted on 02/20/2014 9:05:52 AM PST by Noumenon (Resistance. Restoration. Retribution.)
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To: null and void

just say NO (to quote a former first lady)


20 posted on 02/20/2014 9:09:01 AM PST by Nifster
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To: Noumenon

We’re gonna have to drink more wine.


21 posted on 02/20/2014 9:11:45 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: crazydad; tanknetter; Travis McGee
We are not in Baghdad. We are in American cities..

Have you seen Detroit?
Have you seen Camden?
Have you seen Los Angeles?
Have you seen East St. Louis?
Do you remember Miami?
Do you remember New Orleans?
Do you remember Sandy?

It has happened before. It is happening now. And when it happens tomorrow, they will come at you in these vehicles.

22 posted on 02/20/2014 9:14:11 AM PST by Old Sarge (TINVOWOOT: There Is No Voting Our Way Out Of This)
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To: Altariel; null and void

There MAY be some PD’s refusing them, but there are more accepting them - eagerly:

http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/jan/23/pentagon-giving-away-13k-mraps-free-allies-local-l/

http://whowhatwhy.com/2014/02/17/police-state-gears-up/

http://www.dvidshub.net/news/120494/guard-soldiers-train-clovis-police-department-units-newly-acquired-mrap-vehicles#.UwSqO701VwQ

http://www.sltrib.com/sltrib/news/57358599-78/police-program-utah-1033.html.csp

http://www.harborcountry-news.com/articles/2014/01/31/news/doc52d6a72b30ea9657912899.txt

http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/government/cherokee-nation-marshals-given-rugged-emergency-truck-through-pentagon-program/article_1470643f-80c2-544b-af41-03d47385deb0.html

http://banning-beaumont.patch.com/groups/police-and-fire/p/update-councilman-blasts-police-acquisition-of-mrap-vehicle-city-manager-not-happy


23 posted on 02/20/2014 9:19:07 AM PST by Old Sarge (TINVOWOOT: There Is No Voting Our Way Out Of This)
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To: Altariel

“saying recent mass shootings show any local force could find itself facing an extremely violent or dangerous situation.”

Against what, one or two crazy people, a couple of kids,
two or three CAIR people? This is BS. This is the arming
of jackboots, nothing more.


24 posted on 02/20/2014 9:20:58 AM PST by Slambat
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25 posted on 02/20/2014 9:22:24 AM PST by D-fendr (Deus non alligatur sacramentis sed nos alligamur.)
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To: Billthedrill

Given my preference for fine single malt scotch, that’s going to take a while and cost a bit more.

Well, it’s said that it’s the journey that counts.

Slainte!


26 posted on 02/20/2014 9:23:48 AM PST by Noumenon (Resistance. Restoration. Retribution.)
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To: Altariel

The real action is going to have to happen at state level, with “police de-paramilitarization laws”.

The first part of the law gives the state governor and attorney general the authority to prescribe what equipment police departments in the state are allowed to have and use.

Equipment outside of this list, unless granted special waivers by the state for special needs, must be turned over to their respective county Sheriff for storage and safekeeping. (This is a necessary requirement for those who argue that the police departments might need it in the future.) And it can only be used either by the Sheriff’s office, or for a limited time and use based on the written warrant of a country judge. Likewise, no police agency below the level of county Sheriff can have or use a SWAT team.

The second part of this law prohibits all direct contact between city police departments and the federal government, in either direction. This means grants from the feds, of money and/or equipment, and information exchange, must go through the state. In the case for requests for cooperation, they can only happen through their respective county Sheriff’s office, with their acquiescence.

The third part of the law is to change the curriculum of the state police academies, so there is minimal SWAT training, moving in the direction of civilian, not paramilitary, policing.


27 posted on 02/20/2014 9:24:09 AM PST by yefragetuwrabrumuy (WoT News: Rantburg.com)
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To: Old Sarge

Heard about Houston?
Heard about Detroit?
Heard about Pittsburgh, PA?
You oughta know not to stand by the window
Somebody might see you up there


28 posted on 02/20/2014 9:26:40 AM PST by Noumenon (Resistance. Restoration. Retribution.)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy

You speak of laws in a lawless regime.


29 posted on 02/20/2014 9:27:32 AM PST by Noumenon (Resistance. Restoration. Retribution.)
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To: granite

They had to hit a Ford because the GMC was broke down.
Some armored vehicle, flat tire. The Ford looks like it
could drive away.


30 posted on 02/20/2014 9:27:47 AM PST by Slambat
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To: null and void

“Burn them.

We will.”

Most people don’t know how easy it is.


31 posted on 02/20/2014 9:29:57 AM PST by Slambat
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To: Old Sarge

“Have you seen Detroit?
Have you seen Camden?
Have you seen Los Angeles?
Have you seen East St. Louis?
Do you remember Miami?
Do you remember New Orleans?
Do you remember Sandy?”

Nothing an armed citizenry cant handle.


32 posted on 02/20/2014 9:32:06 AM PST by Slambat
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To: The_Republic_Of_Maine

“That gear is as close to being in the hands of the people as it could possibly be without giving it directly to the people.”

Yep, I agree. And easier to get to AND BURN.


33 posted on 02/20/2014 9:37:38 AM PST by Slambat
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To: DJ MacWoW

Looks like a great opportunity for someone with a balloon filled with red paint.


34 posted on 02/20/2014 9:41:19 AM PST by Chuckster (The longer I live the less I care about what you think.)
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To: tanknetter

They are not “Free” FRiend.


35 posted on 02/20/2014 9:43:06 AM PST by Chuckster (The longer I live the less I care about what you think.)
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To: Slambat
Nothing an armed citizenry cant handle.

That is exactly what these things are meant to suppress.

36 posted on 02/20/2014 9:48:57 AM PST by Chuckster (The longer I live the less I care about what you think.)
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To: Slambat

Most people don’t know that dissolving a little Styrofoam into the gasoline makes it sticky.


37 posted on 02/20/2014 9:49:05 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: Altariel
... the Department of Homeland Security have been funding BearCats and other heavily fortified vehicles in towns and cities nationwide since soon after the 2001 terrorist attacks.

Serious question:

Are there any stories of local police departments using this equipment successfully to save lives in situations where other more traditional gear would not have worked?

38 posted on 02/20/2014 9:50:29 AM PST by Pan_Yan (Who told you that you were naked? Genesis 3:11)
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To: null and void

The Marines in Fallujah were reported to be using a mixture of one part liquid laundry detergent, two parts gasoline. I read that in Wikipedia.


39 posted on 02/20/2014 9:53:57 AM PST by Billthedrill
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To: Noumenon

40 posted on 02/20/2014 9:55:00 AM PST by Old Sarge (TINVOWOOT: There Is No Voting Our Way Out Of This)
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To: B4Ranch

Each Militia will have to establish their own operating procedures.


41 posted on 02/20/2014 9:55:37 AM PST by The_Republic_Of_Maine
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To: GraceG

Thank you, Think about moving to Maine, it is going to be free nation after the vote in 2018.


42 posted on 02/20/2014 9:55:37 AM PST by The_Republic_Of_Maine
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To: Billthedrill

That also thickens gasoline, but Styrofoam both thickens and makes it sticky.


43 posted on 02/20/2014 9:56:48 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: Noumenon
You oughta know not to stand by the window
Somebody might see you up there


44 posted on 02/20/2014 9:59:12 AM PST by null and void (<--- unwilling cattle-car passenger on the bullet train to serfdom)
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To: Oldexpat
"So far there has not been a single incident since 911 that really required the police to have an APC.

The last time I recall the police using any APCs was at Waco but that was "for the Children".

45 posted on 02/20/2014 10:22:53 AM PST by fella ("As it was before Noah so shall it be again,")
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To: tanknetter
These vehicles are paid for and have good capabilities in the “heavy rescue” area. However they SHOULDNT go to the PDs so that local cops can swagger around in black fatigues/ tac gear thinking that they’re suddenly SWAT. They should be painted Red or yellow or dayglo green and handed to local FDs/emergency rescue orgs.

People in towns infested with these weapons of war (and they cannot be classified as anything else) should force through ballot initiatives that all of those tanks shall be painted bright pink with a "Hello Kitty" stenciled onto the hood and doors. Yeah, big man...you're getting ready to slaughter those you swore to serve and protect, but you're going to look like a big ol pussy driving there.

46 posted on 02/20/2014 10:25:44 AM PST by Orangedog (An optimist is someone who tells you to 'cheer up' when things are going his way)
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To: Pan_Yan

“This” equipment, meaning the current MRAPs? Or military surplus vehicles in general?

Following Hurricane Gloria in 1985 my town’s two WWII era Deuce and a halfs and the 3/4 ton Dodge were used to haul volunteer clearing crews with chainsaws to reopen roads, evacuate elderly to shelters until the power came back on and haul water (in garbage cans and 55 gallon drums, this was before the ubiquitous pallets of bottled water) to people with wells.

We had a Jeep Cherokee, but like all the other 4x4 owners in the area couldn’t pitch in until we were able to get out. Something made possible by the towns old military equip.


47 posted on 02/20/2014 10:29:32 AM PST by tanknetter
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To: tanknetter

I am sorry. I misread your post.. Please forgive me.


48 posted on 02/20/2014 10:59:42 AM PST by crazydad (Obamamohamed is a traitor)
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To: Old Sarge

Great point. Again those cities are Democrat run and ruined..


49 posted on 02/20/2014 11:06:55 AM PST by crazydad (Obamamohamed is a traitor)
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To: crazydad

No biggie, nothing to forgive, FRiend.

I really do see and share the concern about these things ending up in the hands of overzealous police forces. But given that they are paid for think that there are a lot of appropriate uses they can be put to.

For example, I follow the storm chasing community and some of the groups are trying to get their hands on some. While they are top heavy and susceptable to lifting winds, their armor provides excellent protection from hail and flying debris that routinely damage and destroy civilian chaser vehicles. Plus they can carry a whole mess of equipment and even provide space for chasers to throw down sleeping bags ...


50 posted on 02/20/2014 11:09:40 AM PST by tanknetter
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