Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

Regarding "Ukraine" vs "the Ukraine"
self | 23/12/14 | self

Posted on 02/23/2014 1:19:23 AM PST by Don W

Fellow FReepers, know this:

In Russian, the ukraine means "the frontier".

To Ukrainians, Ukraine means HOME.

We don't call it "The France", or "The Germany", or "The Mexico", etc.

Drop the "the" and correctly use the nation's name uncorrupted by the oligarchs in "mothertrucker Russia".


TOPICS: Agriculture; Chit/Chat; History; Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: russia; theukraine; ukraine; viktoryanukovich
Comments?
1 posted on 02/23/2014 1:19:23 AM PST by Don W
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Don W

Noticed Glen Beck repeatedly calling it “THE Ukraine” and went hoarse screaming at the TV...maybe next time I’ll try like email or something.


2 posted on 02/23/2014 1:29:37 AM PST by stormhill
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don W

The Netherlands.

The Philippines.

The Congo.

Argentinians call their country “La Argentina.”


3 posted on 02/23/2014 1:30:58 AM PST by Reaganez
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Reaganez

The Sudan


4 posted on 02/23/2014 1:40:00 AM PST by man_in_tx (Blowback (Faithfully farting twowards Mecca five times daily).)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Reaganez

The USA.


5 posted on 02/23/2014 1:41:43 AM PST by Yaelle
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Don W

THE Peoples Republic Of Kalifornia (New York, etc.)


6 posted on 02/23/2014 1:41:53 AM PST by Veggie Todd (The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. TJ)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don W

7 posted on 02/23/2014 1:44:04 AM PST by Veggie Todd (The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. TJ)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Veggie Todd

Well, you are entitled to your own stupid opinion, no matter how wrong you are...

Being of Ukrainian descent, I suppose such “trivial” things mean more to me than you.

Long ago I learned that the word vegetarian meant “really lousy hunter that relied on the womenfolk to feed him”.


8 posted on 02/23/2014 2:16:52 AM PST by Don W (Know what you WANT. Know what you NEED. Know the DIFFERENCE!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Don W

Right on the money. My fiancé is Ukrainian. People need to understand that partition was a generation ago. Ukrainians self identify as Ukrainian not Russo-Ukrainian or other garbage descriptions.


9 posted on 02/23/2014 2:29:55 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don W

“Comments?”
***********************************************

My only comment is that you are absolutely correct.


10 posted on 02/23/2014 3:38:48 AM PST by House Atreides
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Veggie Todd

LOL now that’s “The Truth”.


11 posted on 02/23/2014 4:08:17 AM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Don W

The Bronx.


12 posted on 02/23/2014 4:17:11 AM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Reaganez

La Havana


13 posted on 02/23/2014 4:57:55 AM PST by battlecry
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Yaelle

The Hague
The Congo


14 posted on 02/23/2014 5:04:25 AM PST by VanDeKoik
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Don W

Russians call it “the Ukraine” except.....there is no definite article in Russian.


15 posted on 02/23/2014 5:11:32 AM PST by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don W

Ikraine
Ukraine
He/she/itkraines
Wekraine
Theykraine

And then there’s my favorite actress, Jeannekraine...

(Yes, I’m just kidding; if it’s any consolation I’m trying to break myself of the “The Ukraine” habit, but it’s about as hard on the old brain as, well, not calling the place above Ukraine “the Soviet Union,” or referring to Saigon as “Ho Chi Minh City”)


16 posted on 02/23/2014 5:13:18 AM PST by chajin ("There is no other name under heaven given among people by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don W

There are also “Ukrainians” who have been in Kiev for many generations, who are Kievan Rus... ie they speak and have always spoken russian, and ukrainian was at best a second language. They are also Orthodox and not Catholic, that still does not mean they were ever pro russian.

Before the communists came, both my grandfather and grandmother came from families that spoke russian and french at home. During World War II, my grandparents and father managed to escape westward, the rest of the family stayed behind. Some eventually moved to Riga, but since the fall of communism they are no longer welcome there.


17 posted on 02/23/2014 5:16:36 AM PST by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Katya

What is the difference between written Russian and Ukrainian languages ?


18 posted on 02/23/2014 5:18:52 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks

Ukrainian is a Cyrillic employing several Lathin letters. Russian is fully original.


19 posted on 02/23/2014 5:32:00 AM PST by cunning_fish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: cunning_fish

What is the connection to written Greek ?


20 posted on 02/23/2014 5:35:24 AM PST by Eric in the Ozarks ("Say Not the Struggle Naught Availeth.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 19 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks

Both has strong ties to ancient Greek, probably based on it, but different. Ukrainian and Russian has more in common than both of it with a Greek separately. Pre-1917 Russian employed some Latin letters as well as extra original letters, similar to Ukrainian, but it was all eliminated by Bolshevik language reform.


21 posted on 02/23/2014 5:49:43 AM PST by cunning_fish
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 20 | View Replies]

To: Don W
Drop the "the" ...

This is your concern? Really!

22 posted on 02/23/2014 6:26:23 AM PST by MosesKnows (Love many, trust few, and always paddle your own canoe.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don W

Don’t forget about The Gambia.


23 posted on 02/23/2014 6:37:27 AM PST by pallmallman (Q)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: elcid1970
That's the part I never understood. Where “the” was a symbol of Russ-ion oppression (the Ukrainian SSR) or Soviet domination, but there is “the” in Russian.

Only think I don't understand is that my family emigrated to the US (mostly just before WWI), any both side of my family called it “The Ukraine”.

It could be that they picked that up in the NYC schools, or from speaking to people here, who used “the”.

I'm know the English form “the” under the Soviet era, pre-1991 Declaration of Independence, but I don't know whether it was “The Ukraine” before the Soviets.

Other possibility is that Western Ukraine, home of the ethnic Ukrainians, was under the control of outside powers since what, the 1400’s (Polish, Lithuanian, Polish-Lithuaian, Turks, Russians, Austrians, then the Soviets. The Ukraine (being geography, people, language culture, smoked meats and fish, and salo) persisted independently from who controlled it at the time. It was an expression of cultural or ethnic pride, and maybe, hope for independence.

Now, it's a country (defined by the borders of the Ukrainian SSR under the Soviets). The country includes the ancestral home of the Ukrainian People, and other territory that is ethnically Russian (or other smaller populations).

Let's see how the next six-months go before we settle on a name. It might appropriate to differentiate between the two concepts.

24 posted on 02/23/2014 6:53:27 AM PST by NYFriend
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Don W; Veggie Todd; Jimmy Valentine; cripplecreek; NYFriend; Katya
Ukraine is Game too you?!?!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzLtF_PxbYw


25 posted on 02/23/2014 6:59:38 AM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.- Sarah Palin)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don W

Many go to hospital. I go to the hospital


26 posted on 02/23/2014 7:02:02 AM PST by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Reaganez

the United States of America


27 posted on 02/23/2014 7:02:58 AM PST by Shimmer1 (If fudge could sing, it would sound like Barry White)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Veggie Todd; Don W

Boy, I guess you got told, and rudely too. Nothing like an insulting, rude (and probably insecure) post to start off the day!! :D


28 posted on 02/23/2014 7:05:00 AM PST by Shimmer1 (If fudge could sing, it would sound like Barry White)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: KC_Lion

Classic!


29 posted on 02/23/2014 7:12:42 AM PST by mac_truck ( Aide toi et dieu t aidera)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Don W

The South, yankee.


30 posted on 02/23/2014 7:31:19 AM PST by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don W

Funny, you don’t sound American.


31 posted on 02/23/2014 7:33:29 AM PST by Kirkwood (Zombie Hunter)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Don W
Long ago I learned that the word vegetarian meant “really lousy hunter that relied on the womenfolk to feed him”.

Huh?

32 posted on 02/23/2014 7:59:55 AM PST by Veggie Todd (The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. TJ)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: Don W

you are right

but somehow the “the” became used frequently enough in “our world” (for many years) that using it became common practice to many people here

I have, on my own, tried recently to be sure and NOT say “the Ukraine” but just “Ukraine”

glad you are remininding everyone


33 posted on 02/23/2014 8:22:57 AM PST by Wuli
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don W

In the late 1950s, refugees from the Ukraine arrived in my city. Their children went to school with us. They ALWAYS referred to THE UKRAINE. It is not that different than when I refer to the United States.

Since the Soviet Union (formerly known as Russia), is still trying to reincorporate the Ukraine into its borders, the citizens of Ukraine ought to be rightfully fearful.


34 posted on 02/23/2014 8:23:07 AM PST by Nifster
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don W

When in Ukraine visit Chernobyl.


35 posted on 02/23/2014 9:44:23 AM PST by Morgana (Always a bit of truth in dark humor.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Reaganez

Vive LA France.


36 posted on 02/23/2014 9:46:29 AM PST by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Katya

Poles were expelled from Western Ukraine after the war, and the Soviets sent Ukrainians in to take their place.


37 posted on 02/23/2014 9:48:08 AM PST by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: Reaganez

The Bronx.


38 posted on 02/23/2014 9:50:12 AM PST by FreeReign
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: cunning_fish

The Cyrillic alphabet was developed by two monks Cyril and Methody The Kievan Rus had ties with Byzantium and many letters are Greek, alpha beta gamma lambda rho tau mu nu etc for sounds that they needed new letters for sha za ya they created them

Interestingly Ukrainian language has its roots in the Czech language not Russian. When well spoken it is very light and almost musical


39 posted on 02/23/2014 10:12:27 AM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Jimmy Valentine
The Cyrillic alphabet is named for St. Cyril, but the alphabet he created was probably the so-called Glagolitic alphabet (which continued to be used for centuries in a few places in Croatia--there is an inscription in Glagolitic in the cathedral in Zagreb). The script now called Cyrillic was probably developed a generation or so later, maybe at Ohrid in Macedonia--it is essentially the Greek alphabet with several additional characters for sounds not found in Greek. Over time a more rounded form of some lower-case letters became customary in writing the Greek alphabet--the Cyrillic tends to more straight lines.

As the Slavs were Christianized, those converted by the Byzantines adopted the Cyrillic alphabet to write "Old Church Slavonic" which was used in the liturgy, while the more western Slavs were converted by Catholics and adopted the Latin alphabet.

The Russian alphabet included some redundant letters (different letters for the same sound), which were eliminated shortly after the Bolshevik takeover. They had a letter derived from Greek iota and another derived from Greek eta which represented the same sound--so they dropped the one from iota (the one derived from eta now looks like a backwards N).

The Ukrainian Cyrillic alphabet has a letter that looks like our I, derived from the Greek iota, which is one of their divergences from Russian.

The Greek letter gamma corresponds to a letter with the same form in Cyrillic--pronounced like a G in some languages but like an H in Ukrainian. So they added a letter that looks almost the same but with a little extra stroke at the right, for a G sound (apparently similar to the Dutch G sound).

I don't speak Ukrainian but I took a bit of Russian and have attended some Ukrainian Catholic Masses (a long time ago).

40 posted on 02/23/2014 11:03:40 AM PST by Verginius Rufus
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 39 | View Replies]

To: Don W

The United States of America vs. United States of America vs. United States vs USA vs US vs America?

Your thoughts??

I personally don’t really care that much in one abbreviation or different way of saying our nation’s name or not.


41 posted on 02/23/2014 11:11:02 AM PST by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Don W

My only complaint is the default Russian pronunciation of Kiev the world seems to use. It is pronounced KEEV with a slight dip on the second E.


42 posted on 02/23/2014 11:56:12 AM PST by Organic Panic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Organic Panic

The “E” is pronounced “yeh” which is why you get that pronounciation.


43 posted on 02/23/2014 12:00:40 PM PST by Jimmy Valentine (DemocRATS - when they speak, they lie; when they are silent, they are stealing the American Dream)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 42 | View Replies]

To: Eric in the Ozarks
Some of the vocabulary is different (some Ukrainian words are more like Polish than Russian). There are a few extra letters and a little more complicated grammar. The pronunciation also differs. More here.

Belorussian, though, isn't all that different from Russian. The spelling differs, but a lot of the differences are in cases where Russian isn't spelled like it sounds, and the Belorussian is.

44 posted on 02/23/2014 12:11:02 PM PST by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Jimmy Valentine

In russian yes. In Ukrainian not so much.


45 posted on 02/23/2014 2:13:04 PM PST by Organic Panic
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 43 | View Replies]

To: Don W
Here's another one for you to worry about, from Twitter:
Oksana G ‏@oksana200473 24m @SvobodaRadio В Украине, В, а не На
Oksana G is upset that SvobodaRadio has said "on Ukraine" instead of "in Ukraine".
46 posted on 02/23/2014 10:17:41 PM PST by Vroomfondel
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dfwgator

Not surprising.. as the Soviets were in charge. One reason my grandparents left... my grandmother was of polish origin, but her family had also been in Kiev for generations.


47 posted on 02/24/2014 4:25:07 PM PST by Katya (Homo Nosce Te Ipsum)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson