Skip to comments.Regarding "Ukraine" vs "the Ukraine"
Posted on 02/23/2014 1:19:23 AM PST by Don W
Fellow FReepers, know this:
In Russian, the ukraine means "the frontier".
To Ukrainians, Ukraine means HOME.
We don't call it "The France", or "The Germany", or "The Mexico", etc.
Drop the "the" and correctly use the nation's name uncorrupted by the oligarchs in "mothertrucker Russia".
Noticed Glen Beck repeatedly calling it “THE Ukraine” and went hoarse screaming at the TV...maybe next time I’ll try like email or something.
Argentinians call their country “La Argentina.”
THE Peoples Republic Of Kalifornia (New York, etc.)
Well, you are entitled to your own stupid opinion, no matter how wrong you are...
Being of Ukrainian descent, I suppose such “trivial” things mean more to me than you.
Long ago I learned that the word vegetarian meant “really lousy hunter that relied on the womenfolk to feed him”.
Right on the money. My fiancé is Ukrainian. People need to understand that partition was a generation ago. Ukrainians self identify as Ukrainian not Russo-Ukrainian or other garbage descriptions.
My only comment is that you are absolutely correct.
LOL now that’s “The Truth”.
Russians call it “the Ukraine” except.....there is no definite article in Russian.
And then there’s my favorite actress, Jeannekraine...
(Yes, I’m just kidding; if it’s any consolation I’m trying to break myself of the “The Ukraine” habit, but it’s about as hard on the old brain as, well, not calling the place above Ukraine “the Soviet Union,” or referring to Saigon as “Ho Chi Minh City”)
There are also “Ukrainians” who have been in Kiev for many generations, who are Kievan Rus... ie they speak and have always spoken russian, and ukrainian was at best a second language. They are also Orthodox and not Catholic, that still does not mean they were ever pro russian.
Before the communists came, both my grandfather and grandmother came from families that spoke russian and french at home. During World War II, my grandparents and father managed to escape westward, the rest of the family stayed behind. Some eventually moved to Riga, but since the fall of communism they are no longer welcome there.
What is the difference between written Russian and Ukrainian languages ?
Ukrainian is a Cyrillic employing several Lathin letters. Russian is fully original.
What is the connection to written Greek ?
Both has strong ties to ancient Greek, probably based on it, but different. Ukrainian and Russian has more in common than both of it with a Greek separately. Pre-1917 Russian employed some Latin letters as well as extra original letters, similar to Ukrainian, but it was all eliminated by Bolshevik language reform.
This is your concern? Really!
Don’t forget about The Gambia.
Only think I don't understand is that my family emigrated to the US (mostly just before WWI), any both side of my family called it “The Ukraine”.
It could be that they picked that up in the NYC schools, or from speaking to people here, who used “the”.
I'm know the English form “the” under the Soviet era, pre-1991 Declaration of Independence, but I don't know whether it was “The Ukraine” before the Soviets.
Other possibility is that Western Ukraine, home of the ethnic Ukrainians, was under the control of outside powers since what, the 1400’s (Polish, Lithuanian, Polish-Lithuaian, Turks, Russians, Austrians, then the Soviets. The Ukraine (being geography, people, language culture, smoked meats and fish, and salo) persisted independently from who controlled it at the time. It was an expression of cultural or ethnic pride, and maybe, hope for independence.
Now, it's a country (defined by the borders of the Ukrainian SSR under the Soviets). The country includes the ancestral home of the Ukrainian People, and other territory that is ethnically Russian (or other smaller populations).
Let's see how the next six-months go before we settle on a name. It might appropriate to differentiate between the two concepts.
Many go to hospital. I go to the hospital
the United States of America
Boy, I guess you got told, and rudely too. Nothing like an insulting, rude (and probably insecure) post to start off the day!! :D
The South, yankee.
Funny, you don’t sound American.
you are right
but somehow the “the” became used frequently enough in “our world” (for many years) that using it became common practice to many people here
I have, on my own, tried recently to be sure and NOT say “the Ukraine” but just “Ukraine”
glad you are remininding everyone
In the late 1950s, refugees from the Ukraine arrived in my city. Their children went to school with us. They ALWAYS referred to THE UKRAINE. It is not that different than when I refer to the United States.
Since the Soviet Union (formerly known as Russia), is still trying to reincorporate the Ukraine into its borders, the citizens of Ukraine ought to be rightfully fearful.
When in Ukraine visit Chernobyl.
Vive LA France.
Poles were expelled from Western Ukraine after the war, and the Soviets sent Ukrainians in to take their place.
The Cyrillic alphabet was developed by two monks Cyril and Methody The Kievan Rus had ties with Byzantium and many letters are Greek, alpha beta gamma lambda rho tau mu nu etc for sounds that they needed new letters for sha za ya they created them
Interestingly Ukrainian language has its roots in the Czech language not Russian. When well spoken it is very light and almost musical
As the Slavs were Christianized, those converted by the Byzantines adopted the Cyrillic alphabet to write "Old Church Slavonic" which was used in the liturgy, while the more western Slavs were converted by Catholics and adopted the Latin alphabet.
The Russian alphabet included some redundant letters (different letters for the same sound), which were eliminated shortly after the Bolshevik takeover. They had a letter derived from Greek iota and another derived from Greek eta which represented the same sound--so they dropped the one from iota (the one derived from eta now looks like a backwards N).
The Ukrainian Cyrillic alphabet has a letter that looks like our I, derived from the Greek iota, which is one of their divergences from Russian.
The Greek letter gamma corresponds to a letter with the same form in Cyrillic--pronounced like a G in some languages but like an H in Ukrainian. So they added a letter that looks almost the same but with a little extra stroke at the right, for a G sound (apparently similar to the Dutch G sound).
I don't speak Ukrainian but I took a bit of Russian and have attended some Ukrainian Catholic Masses (a long time ago).
The United States of America vs. United States of America vs. United States vs USA vs US vs America?
I personally don’t really care that much in one abbreviation or different way of saying our nation’s name or not.
My only complaint is the default Russian pronunciation of Kiev the world seems to use. It is pronounced KEEV with a slight dip on the second E.
The “E” is pronounced “yeh” which is why you get that pronounciation.
Belorussian, though, isn't all that different from Russian. The spelling differs, but a lot of the differences are in cases where Russian isn't spelled like it sounds, and the Belorussian is.
In russian yes. In Ukrainian not so much.
Oksana G @oksana200473 24m @SvobodaRadio В Украине, В, а не НаOksana G is upset that SvobodaRadio has said "on Ukraine" instead of "in Ukraine".
Not surprising.. as the Soviets were in charge. One reason my grandparents left... my grandmother was of polish origin, but her family had also been in Kiev for generations.