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The Scientific Proof of the Existence of the Soul
Waking Times ^ | February 27, 2013 | Debbie West

Posted on 02/23/2014 5:18:03 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet

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I think they mean the Council of Nicea, not Nice.
1 posted on 02/23/2014 5:18:03 PM PST by 2ndDivisionVet
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
"In 1901 Dr. Duncan MacDougall determined that the soul weighed 21 grams by weighing dying patient’s right before and right after death. "

Maybe it's just what oxygen weighs after it is expelled from the lungs at the dying breath? Just wondering.

2 posted on 02/23/2014 5:21:26 PM PST by SkyDancer (I Believe In The Law Until It Intereferes With Justice.)
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To: SkyDancer

Beam me up,Scotty.


3 posted on 02/23/2014 5:24:43 PM PST by Macrinus
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
a board certified Past Life Regression Therapist

Stopped read right there.

4 posted on 02/23/2014 5:26:39 PM PST by Lurking Libertarian (Non sub homine, sed sub Deo et lege)
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To: SkyDancer

that is sooo cool I never heard that before


5 posted on 02/23/2014 5:28:02 PM PST by Jedediah (The Keys to The Kingdom)
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To: SkyDancer

does a jar under vacuum weigh the same as a jar not under a vacuum?


6 posted on 02/23/2014 5:30:49 PM PST by Thumper1960 (A modern so-called "Conservative" is a shadow of a wisp of a vertebrate human being.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
 photo 51RNGQIJgdL_AA278_PIkin4BottomRight-3422_AA300_SH20_OU15__zps8ce217be.jpg

Do religious experiences come from God, or are they merely the random firing of neurons in the brain? Drawing on his own research with Carmelite nuns, neuroscientist Mario Beauregard shows that genuine, life-changing spiritual events can be documented. He offers compelling evidence that religious experiences have a nonmaterial origin, making a convincing case for what many in scientific fields are loath to consider—that it is God who creates our spiritual experiences, not the brain. Beauregard and O'Leary explore recent attempts to locate a "God gene" in some of us and claims that our brains are "hardwired" for religion—even the strange case of one neuroscientist who allegedly

http://www.amazon.com/The-Spiritual-Brain-Neuroscientists-Existence/dp/0061625981

7 posted on 02/23/2014 5:33:51 PM PST by Zeneta (Thoughts in time and out of season.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I done a lot of soul-searchin` lately

but never did find one...


8 posted on 02/23/2014 5:35:07 PM PST by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: Lurking Libertarian

Me too!


9 posted on 02/23/2014 5:36:43 PM PST by Cyman (We have to pass it to see what's in it= definition of stool sample)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I thought they meant the Council of Noetics...oh, no that was Dan Brown.

Memory is hazy because this topic is filed right next to memories of dorm room bullsessions and beer-drinking sessions. Having played about with hypnosis in college, the past-life regression “memories” are quite fascinating, even if they are nothing more than random stream-of-consiousness fabrications of the subconscious mind.


10 posted on 02/23/2014 5:37:31 PM PST by bigbob (The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly. Abraham Lincoln)
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To: Jedediah
What's cool about it? Long before this idiot was a twinkle in his mother's eye, God gave us instructions about the reality of the soul. If you do a word search in the Bible you'd be amazed at what God has to say on the issue.

We don't need a someone with a degree in psycho-babble to instruct us.

11 posted on 02/23/2014 5:38:43 PM PST by Salvavida (The restoration of the U.S.A. starts with filling the pews at every Bible-believing church.)
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To: bunkerhill7

Start with Joesph Campbell and his excellent work in mythology.

Your journey will diverge at some point.

The divergence is that of “certainty” or “uncertainty”.

The choice is yours.


12 posted on 02/23/2014 5:39:25 PM PST by Zeneta (Thoughts in time and out of season.)
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To: Lurking Libertarian

13 posted on 02/23/2014 5:40:06 PM PST by JaguarXKE (1973: Reporters investigate All the President's Men. 2013: Reporters ARE all the President's men)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I don’t need anyone’s word on if I have a soul. I know it because Jesus told me that it is so.


14 posted on 02/23/2014 5:41:15 PM PST by Kartographer ("We mutually pledge to each other our lives, our fortunes and our sacred honor.")
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To: Kartographer

Man dies ...”then the Judgement”

it’s amazing what lengths so many will go to avoid coming to grips with that reality!


15 posted on 02/23/2014 5:44:57 PM PST by MeshugeMikey (Where are The Weapons Of Mass Global Climate Change Destruction?)
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To: Thumper1960

Do we live in a vacuum? Are our lungs under a vacuum?


16 posted on 02/23/2014 5:50:02 PM PST by SkyDancer (I Believe In The Law Until It Intereferes With Justice.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The article does not show any scientific proof. There can not be, and will not be any scientific proof, unless you include the works of St Thomas of Aquinas under science. They are indeed science, but not under today’s interpretation of the word science.


17 posted on 02/23/2014 5:51:43 PM PST by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible traitors. Complicit in the destruction of our country.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I always thought Soul was a kind of food.


18 posted on 02/23/2014 5:54:37 PM PST by BerryDingle (I know how to deal with communists, I still wear their scars on my back from Hollywood-Ronald Reagan)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

The article cites Dr Evan Alexander, but he’s apparently a charlatan who wrote his best-selling book to make money because he was facing costly malpractice suits and was in a lot of financial trouble.


19 posted on 02/23/2014 5:56:37 PM PST by ottbmare (the OTTB mare, now a proud Marine Mom)
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To: SkyDancer

The jar, not the human.


20 posted on 02/23/2014 6:03:12 PM PST by Thumper1960 (A modern so-called "Conservative" is a shadow of a wisp of a vertebrate human being.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Science has no explanation or patience for consciousness.

The only science that even touches consciousness is quantum mechanics, where nothing exists independently of a conscious observer.

Does the soul exist independently of consciousness?

Is the soul consciousness?

21 posted on 02/23/2014 6:03:28 PM PST by E. Pluribus Unum (If Barack Hussein Obama entertains a thought that he does not verbalize, is it still a lie?)
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To: Lurking Libertarian

Reincarnation is mathematically impossible - at least as it is described by the major religions that believe it.

Buddhism, for example, at least some forms of Buddhism believe in 31 planes or levels of existence through which all souls are sojourning or traveling through. At the top is is true enlightenment the highest state which once reached is called Nirvana. The doctrine is that everything was once literally “Nothing” and that “Everything” is a function of the great nothing becoming unbalanced. (Yeah that sounds weird to me as well) The deal is all temporal souls were created when nothing became something and we’ve been trying to work our way back to nothing every sense.

The way we do that is through a series of lives as various creatures where we accumulate either good or bad Karma. The only thing that survives the previous life is the Karma. There are no memories of past lives to regress to - only Karma.

Here is the problem. All souls appeared out of the perturbation of the cosmic nothingness at the same time. Thus there are no new souls being created. Since a few souls manage to reach the original state of cosmic nothingness that means that the total number of souls (People and animals that are alive) should remain almost constant but should be falling at a slow endomatic rate as souls in ones and twos pass from being Bodhisattva’s and are absorbed back into nothingness.

Yet that is not what we see. 95% of all animals and people that have ever lived are alive today. For example: In 100 AD there were about 200 million humans on Earth. today there are over 7 Billion. There are also, thanks to advances in animal husbandry and agriculture more cows, horse, chickens and pigs than ever before.

Thus how is it possible that we have all been reincarnated several times when there are simply not enough ancestors?

There are only a limited number of ways to explain this.

1. Some of us have no souls or are some type of persistent illusion that is viewed by those with souls - in which case not everyone you see has been reincarnated because some of us are not really here.

2. Some of us are a soul that has procession of more than one body simultaneously. In that case how does the “Past live regression coach know that what is experienced is a past life and not a concurrent life?

3. New souls are being created all the time to fill the new bodies. This also means that there will be a large number of souls that have not been reincarnated.

4. There is no such thing as reincarnation.

I think #4 is the only plausible answer


22 posted on 02/23/2014 6:06:35 PM PST by Fai Mao (Genius at Large)
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To: Thumper1960

Did the jar die? Did it weigh less when it did?


23 posted on 02/23/2014 6:07:05 PM PST by SkyDancer (I Believe In The Law Until It Intereferes With Justice.)
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To: SkyDancer

The jar cracked, losing its vacuum, and died.


24 posted on 02/23/2014 6:12:04 PM PST by Thumper1960 (A modern so-called "Conservative" is a shadow of a wisp of a vertebrate human being.)
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To: Thumper1960

I knew it. But wasn’t the vacuum replaced by something else?


25 posted on 02/23/2014 6:13:48 PM PST by SkyDancer (I Believe In The Law Until It Intereferes With Justice.)
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To: Zeneta

Campbell is fuula crap


26 posted on 02/23/2014 6:14:52 PM PST by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Past Life”?

That defies the initial judgement.


27 posted on 02/23/2014 6:16:48 PM PST by G Larry
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Thanks 2ndDivisionVet.


28 posted on 02/23/2014 6:24:06 PM PST by SunkenCiv (http://www.freerepublic.com/~mestamachine/)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I am troubled by the title of this story. Science deals with the observation and measurement of material phenomena. If the soul is not material then it lies outside the purview of science and in the realm of psychology or religion.

The closest science can come to a conclusion of a religious nature is that the cause of a measurable effect can not be determined and proved.

This is as it should be. Religion is founded on faith, the capacity to believe, even to know and experience, that which can not be seen and touched. It is rightfully said that God is love and it is forever true that love can not be measured.


29 posted on 02/23/2014 6:27:36 PM PST by concentric circles
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To: Lurking Libertarian
a board certified Past Life Regression Therapist

Stopped read right there.

Excellent judgment LL.

30 posted on 02/23/2014 6:45:33 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: concentric circles
Religion is founded on faith, the capacity to believe, even to know and experience, that which can not be seen and touched.

But it is not based on blind faith, despite assertions by atheists, but on a degrees of evidential warrant.

31 posted on 02/23/2014 6:46:54 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“Luminous beings are we not this crude matter...” Master Jedi Yoda_The Empire Strikes Back. Kiddie movie...right. /sarc


32 posted on 02/23/2014 6:48:03 PM PST by ClearBlueSky (When anyone says its not about Islam...it's about Islam. That death cult must be eradicated.)
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To: Kartographer

“I don’t need anyone’s word on if I have a soul. I know it because Jesus told me that it is so.”

Bingo!!!


33 posted on 02/23/2014 6:57:50 PM PST by tired&retired
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Dr. Duncan “Om” MacDougall (c. 1866 – October 15, 1920) was an early 20th-century physician in Haverhill, Massachusetts who sought to measure the mass lost by a human when the soul departed the body at death. MacDougall attempted to measure the mass change of six patients at the moment of death. His first subject, the results from which MacDougall felt were most accurate, lost “three-fourths of an ounce”, which has since been popularized as “21 grams”.

Of the four successful measurements he obtained an average weight loss at the moment of death of 15 grams. The total average unaccounted for weight loss in these four subjects was found to be approximately 29 grams.

n 1901, MacDougall weighed six patients while they were in the process of dying from tuberculosis in an old age home. It was relatively easy to determine when death was only a few hours away, and at this point the entire bed was placed on an industrial sized scale which was reported to be sensitive to “two-tenths of an ounce”. He took his results (a varying amount of unaccounted for mass loss in four of the six cases) to support his hypothesis that the soul had mass, and when the soul departed the body, so did this mass. The determination of the soul weighing 21 grams was based on the loss of mass in the first subject at the moment of death.

MacDougall later measured fifteen dogs in similar circumstances and reported the results as “uniformly negative,” with no perceived change in mass. He took these results as confirmation that the soul had weight, and that dogs did not have souls. MacDougall’s complaints about not being able to find dogs dying of the natural causes that would have been ideal led one author to conjecture that he was in fact sacrificing the experimental animals, as is standard practice in scientific experiments.[1]

On March 10, 1907, before MacDougall was able to publish the results of his experiments, New York Times broke the story in an articls titled “Soul has Weight, Physician Thinks”. MacDougall’s results were published in April of the same year in the Journal of the American Society for Psychical Research and the medical journal American Medicine.

MacDougall’s experimental results have been regarded by many as flawed, due to the limitations of the available equipment at the time, a lack of sufficient control over the experimental conditions, and the small sample size. Author Robert L. Park raises objections to MacDougall’s findings in his “Superstition: Belief in the Age of Science.” [2]

Nonetheless, MacDougall’s finding that presumably the human soul weighed 21 grams has become a meme in the public consciousness, mostly due to its claiming the titular thesis in the 2003 film 21 Grams. MacDougall’s experiments have not been repeated, and his research remains the most accurate measurements of the mass of the human soul performed to date. - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duncan_MacDougall_%28doctor%29


34 posted on 02/23/2014 7:03:31 PM PST by daniel1212 (Come to the Lord Jesus as a contrite damned+destitute sinner, trust Him to save you, then live 4 Him)
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To: ottbmare

I was with Eben Alexander the first time he told his story in public, long before he wrote the book. It was not a profound experience in comparison to many near death experiences. It also changed as I have heard it many times.

His experience was no proof of heaven. I know Eben and we have many mutual friends, including his wife’s friend that he claims to have seen during his experience.

I do read souls and have for many years. I can tell if a person’s story has merit or not by the feeling of emotion attached to the stored memory they retrieve when they tell their story. There are very unique attributes associated with a true near death experience. For example, if a person meets Jesus or a Divine Being(angelic), the profound Love is unmistakable. It comes back full blast every time you think of the experience.

The soul is separate from the physical body, but not in the way these people describe. Jesus described it correctly.


35 posted on 02/23/2014 7:06:11 PM PST by tired&retired
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“In the most compelling scientific evidence to date validating reincarnation, Dr. Ian Stevenson documented over 3,000 cases of children who remembered their past lives.”

I liked Ian’s work, but it lacked scientific credibility. One of the main reasons is that he used local interpreters rather than bringing his own to interview the children. I discussed this with Dr. Raymond Moody who worked with Ian and was a friend of his at University of Virginia, Charlottesville.


36 posted on 02/23/2014 7:10:16 PM PST by tired&retired
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To: Salvavida

True the Ancient of days has it all in balance and the wisdom that brings it


37 posted on 02/23/2014 7:11:21 PM PST by Jedediah (The Keys to The Kingdom)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

bookmark


38 posted on 02/23/2014 7:13:05 PM PST by Pajamajan (Pray for our nation. Thank the Lord for everything you have. Don't wait. Do it today.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

“which incidentally was banned by the Council of Nice in 553 AD”

This guy writes fiction. He is referring to the 2nd Ecumenical Council of Constantinople, which was also the 5th ecumenical council. It was the one where the Emperor Justinian kidnapped the Pope Vigilis and held him prisoner for eight years until he agree to call the council.


39 posted on 02/23/2014 7:13:27 PM PST by tired&retired
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

This guy does not have pure motive. He is a media hound....From his website:

HATHAWAY IS AVAILABLE FOR HYPNOSIS STAGE SHOWS where he provides fun and entertainment suitable for the whole family. He will demonstrate the amazing power of the unconscious mind and call upon volunteers to act as subjects. The demonstration, which lasts from an hour and a quarter to an hour and a half, is tailored to the age level of the audience, and is both fun and educational. Great for schools, clubs, private parties, and fund-raisers.


40 posted on 02/23/2014 7:17:25 PM PST by tired&retired
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“Science has no explanation or patience for consciousness.”

I’m teaching a course on this at Duke University this spring. It is scientific, but not the way it is approached by psychological studies. It is pure science.


41 posted on 02/23/2014 7:21:04 PM PST by tired&retired
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Here is a pic of the author. I've net him several times at conferences. Jesus was very correct in that the eyes are the windows to the soul:
42 posted on 02/23/2014 7:30:12 PM PST by tired&retired
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To: tired&retired

What do you see when you look at Obama’s eyes?

Do you have thoughts on a person where each of their eyes holds a different look? I ask because I note Obama’s right eye is Idi Amin’ish, the left, not as much.


43 posted on 02/23/2014 7:55:05 PM PST by Auntie Mame (Fear not tomorrow. God is already there.)
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To: bunkerhill7

Ray Charles would be a good start!


44 posted on 02/23/2014 8:21:55 PM PST by SgtHooper (If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.)
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To: tired&retired

Most of the folks are not ready for that. Nor reincarnation either.


45 posted on 02/23/2014 8:23:31 PM PST by Nuc 1.1 (Nuc 1 Liberals aren't Patriots. Remember 1789!)
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To: SkyDancer

21 grams is the weight of 14.7 liters of molecular oxygen. That is way too large a volume for a person to expel in one breath.


46 posted on 02/23/2014 8:27:53 PM PST by 17th Miss Regt
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Wow, everyone seems to need to believe this guy is a crackpot. But why? Jesus said we have souls, this guy is validating that. Where’s the problem? Reincarnation? The miracle is that God incarnated us the first time - additional times would be easy once He got some practice in. It’s all one long lifetime for the soul, though, because you’re either with God or you’re not. Of course, eternal hell gets replaced by an almost eternal hell. But that makes more sense for a God of Love to most people. And as for those who do a head count and say that there are too many people and animals now to make up the few in the past, I say read “Forbidden Archeology” - and contemplate the number of stars in the sky.


47 posted on 02/23/2014 8:28:35 PM PST by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I would say that evil is a part of the soul and also has weight. Thus, O$hithead in the White Hut should weigh a ton or more.


48 posted on 02/23/2014 8:29:38 PM PST by SgtHooper (If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

C.S. Lewis said, “You do not have a soul. You are a soul. You have a body.”


49 posted on 02/23/2014 8:59:52 PM PST by unlearner (You will never come to know that which you do not know until you first know that you do not know it.)
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To: Fai Mao
Not 'nothingness.' That is not a correct Buddhist view.

Yet that is not what we see. 95% of all animals and people that have ever lived are alive today. For example: In 100 AD there were about 200 million humans on Earth. today there are over 7 Billion.

The universe is vast and mind is not limited to this planet.

50 posted on 02/23/2014 9:11:04 PM PST by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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