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Leftists become incandescent when reminded of the socialist roots of Nazism
The Telegraph ^ | February 25th, 2014 | Daniel Hannan

Posted on 02/25/2014 3:44:02 PM PST by cripplecreek

On 16 June 1941, as Hitler readied his forces for Operation Barbarossa, Josef Goebbels looked forward to the new order that the Nazis would impose on a conquered Russia. There would be no come-back, he wrote, for capitalists nor priests nor Tsars. Rather, in the place of debased, Jewish Bolshevism, the Wehrmacht would deliver “der echte Sozialismus”: real socialism.


Goebbels never doubted that he was a socialist. He understood Nazism to be a better and more plausible form of socialism than that propagated by Lenin. Instead of spreading itself across different nations, it would operate within the unit of the Volk.


So total is the cultural victory of the modern Left that the merely to recount this fact is jarring. But few at the time would have found it especially contentious. As George Watson put it in The Lost Literature of Socialism:

It is now clear beyond all reasonable doubt that Hitler and his associates believed they were socialists, and that others, including democratic socialists, thought so too.


The clue is in the name. Subsequent generations of Leftists have tried to explain away the awkward nomenclature of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party as either a cynical PR stunt or an embarrassing coincidence. In fact, the name meant what it said.

(Excerpt) Read more at blogs.telegraph.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Miscellaneous; Society
KEYWORDS: europe; fascism; leftism; nationalsocialism; nationalsocialist; nazi; rightwing; socialism
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Very interesting editorial from Daniel Hannan on the use of the term "Right wing" to describe fascism and nazis.

He's a lot more diplomatic about it than I would be but its still a very interesting article.
1 posted on 02/25/2014 3:44:02 PM PST by cripplecreek
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To: cripplecreek
what part of national SOCIALIST German workers party don't they understand???
2 posted on 02/25/2014 3:47:06 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: cripplecreek

Self-ping to read later.


3 posted on 02/25/2014 3:48:01 PM PST by MeanWestTexan (Beware Obama's Reichstag Fire.)
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To: cripplecreek

Socialism isn’t just the root of fascism, it’s the entire organism.


4 posted on 02/25/2014 3:51:00 PM PST by SampleMan (Feral Humans are the refuse of socialism.)
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To: cripplecreek

to read later


5 posted on 02/25/2014 3:55:46 PM PST by ElayneJ
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To: cripplecreek

Good find. Pass this along to every Liberal you know and watch their heads implode. I predict they will ultimately shake their heads and walk away. After all, what Liberals can’t accept the simply reject and continue to believe in unicorns and rainbows. Nice job. Thank you.


6 posted on 02/25/2014 3:57:24 PM PST by majormaturity
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To: cripplecreek
And speaking of socialism here is some pearls of wisdom from Lenin which zer0 got from Saul Alinsky

"The goal of socialism is communism." ...............and the ever popular "The way to crush the bourgeoisie is to grind them between the millstones of taxation and inflation." Vladimir Lenin

7 posted on 02/25/2014 4:01:34 PM PST by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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To: cripplecreek
I read an article on line a few years ago that labeled Nazis as right wingers. I sent an email to the author (a college professor, much smarter than any of us, doncha know) explaining that the Nazis were socialists, LEFT WINGERS. The author's assistant responded to me, saying that the author identified them that way because that was the way they were traditionally identified, or some nonsense. I responded to her that it was incorrect, and a slur against conservatives.

Surprise, surprise, no response.

8 posted on 02/25/2014 4:01:42 PM PST by Hardastarboard (The question of our age is whether a majority of Americans can and will vote us all into slavery.)
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To: cripplecreek

Yes, of course. The real reason why the Communists hated the Nazis so much was because they were competing for the same territory.

Hitler got a lot of his ideas from Mussolini—who started out his political career as a card-carrying Communist.


9 posted on 02/25/2014 4:02:12 PM PST by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: cripplecreek

I remind lefties of my acquaintance of this all the time. Sunlight to vampires.


10 posted on 02/25/2014 4:05:09 PM PST by WorkingClassFilth
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To: cripplecreek

I thought they banned incandescent bulbs... oh that’s right... just the bright ones, which liberals are not.


11 posted on 02/25/2014 4:08:38 PM PST by Rodamala
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To: cripplecreek

“Leftists become incandescent when reminded of the socialist roots of Nazism”

The headline needs a little tweaking.

Leftists become “CFL or LED” when reminded of the socialist roots of Nazism


12 posted on 02/25/2014 4:10:10 PM PST by Conspiracy Guy (Did the ancients know they were ancients? Or did they see themselves as presents?)
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To: Cicero

Goebbels took a lot of his propaganda directly from a book called “Crystallizing public opinion” by Wilsonian progressive Edward Bernays.

I actually try to moderate my opinion of Bernays with the idea that he was more of a fool than an evil man. He did a lot of good things in his life and was genuinely horrified upon finding that his propaganda methods were being used by the nazi.


13 posted on 02/25/2014 4:10:27 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

“It is now clear beyond all reasonable doubt that Hitler and his associates believed they were socialists, and that others, including democratic socialists, thought so too.”

Kind of hard to hide when Nazi stands for National Socialism. Perhaps we should stop calling them Nazis and call them National Socialists instead. It would be a correct moniker for them.

“The clue is in the name. Subsequent generations of Leftists have tried to explain away the awkward nomenclature of the National Socialist German Workers’ Party as either a cynical PR stunt or an embarrassing coincidence. In fact, the name meant what it said.”

Bingo!


14 posted on 02/25/2014 4:18:29 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: Chode

Indeed. And the volkswagen literally means “the people’s wagon”. Sounds like a very socialist friendly term IMHO.


15 posted on 02/25/2014 4:19:54 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: ReformationFan
Workers of all lands, unite - to smash the rule of English capitalism! You young upward-striving nations of the earth, combine to annihilate the old English dragon who blocks the treasures of the earth and withholds from you the riches of the world.

-Robert Ley, German Labor front leader under Hitler.

Proving another leftist lie that Hitler outlawed unions. Hitler pulled labor and trade unions together under one roof.
16 posted on 02/25/2014 4:25:48 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek
Hannan has said something that desperately needs saying.

Hitler was a Fascist. And Fascists are Socialists.

Whereas Communism involves the state's ownership of the means of production, Fascism requires the state to merely control the means of production.

Observe The Won's cultivation of and cozy relationship with the corporatists. Obama, Buffet, GE, Hollywood, etc. are no different than Hitler, Krupp, Thyssen, Riefenstahl, etc.

Personally, I disagree with some of Hannan's more generous conclusions. Many leftists would not hesitate to send global warming skeptics to the camps...if they could.

The George Bernard Shaw quote, in particular, is absolutely chilling. Especially, since there are leftist intellectuals today who hold the same thoughts...

17 posted on 02/25/2014 4:33:19 PM PST by okie01 (The Mainstream Media -- IGNORANCE ON PARADE)
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To: cripplecreek

bump


18 posted on 02/25/2014 4:34:24 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: okie01
Personally, I disagree with some of Hannan's more generous conclusions. Many leftists would not hesitate to send global warming skeptics to the camps...if they could.

Yeah, that's what I meant about him being more diplomatic about it than I would be.
19 posted on 02/25/2014 4:35:24 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek; ek_hornbeck
I'm a critic of the traditional American conservative insistence on a spectrum that runs from totalitarianism on one side to anarchism on the other (or collectivism on one side to individualism on the other), because it simply doesn't fit the original conception of "left" and "right wing" where the terms originated.

However--Josef Goebbels was indeed a left wing Nazi, almost an urban revolutionary (like the Strasser brothers and Ernst Rohm). There are even mainstream historians who admit this.

20 posted on 02/25/2014 4:37:35 PM PST by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Cicero

exactly, the same territory and the same audience


21 posted on 02/25/2014 4:40:59 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: ReformationFan
100%
22 posted on 02/25/2014 4:42:33 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: Zionist Conspirator

Left and right don’t mean the same things in continental Europe as they do in the English speaking world. Left and right have the same general connotations in Great Britain, Canada, the USA, and Australia.


23 posted on 02/25/2014 4:45:35 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek
Leftists are basically totalitarians while conservatives are closer to moderates. All totalitarian governments, socialist, fascist, communist, corporatist are mechanisms of the left.


24 posted on 02/25/2014 4:49:40 PM PST by Caipirabob (Communists... Socialists... Democrats...Traitors... Who can tell the difference?)
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To: Chode

25 posted on 02/25/2014 4:50:04 PM PST by Travis McGee (www.EnemiesForeignAndDomestic.com)
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To: Caipirabob

I think I would put myself about dead center between conservative and libertarian on that graphic.


26 posted on 02/25/2014 4:51:26 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek; Chode; Zionist Conspirator
Wow, I wish I could write like that.

I would just simply say, Nazism VS Communism is just like Coke VS Pepsi.

The Same ingredients just marketed differently.

27 posted on 02/25/2014 4:51:51 PM PST by KC_Lion (Build the America you want to live in at your address, and keep looking up.- Sarah Palin)
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To: Hardastarboard
The author's assistant responded to me, saying that the author identified them that way because that was the way they were traditionally identified, or some nonsense.

I would think that the terms in which an organization identified itself, - in its founding documents and in the name it took - would be the "way they were traditionally identified."

In the case of the Nazi party, the name they took was die Nationalsozialistische Deutsche Arbeiterpartei, or "the National Socialist German Workers Party."

The only "tradition" here is the traditional degree to which Left wingers would like to re-write history so as to airbrush out their failures and redirect the responsibility onto their political enemies. In this case they cannot do this, because the record is very clear.

In the case of the racial history of the American South, their efforts have been much more successful.

28 posted on 02/25/2014 4:54:03 PM PST by Steely Tom (How do you feel about robbing Peter's robot?)
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To: Caipirabob

I think the most dishonest narrative ever perpetuated by academia and the media is that Fascism is/was a right wing ideology.


29 posted on 02/25/2014 4:54:18 PM PST by Carbonsteel
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To: Carbonsteel

I agree


30 posted on 02/25/2014 4:55:03 PM PST by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Chode

Libs understand it,they choose to ignore it.They are hopeless fools.


31 posted on 02/25/2014 4:55:04 PM PST by Farmer Dean (stop worrying about what they want to do to you,start thinking about what you want to do to them)
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To: cripplecreek

This whole thing of defining what socialism is is cute. It’s like talking about the difference between being beaten and being flogged.


32 posted on 02/25/2014 4:55:13 PM PST by lurk
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To: Travis McGee
100%
33 posted on 02/25/2014 4:55:25 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: KC_Lion
less filling/tastes great...
34 posted on 02/25/2014 4:57:59 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: Steely Tom
I would think that the terms in which an organization identified itself, - in its founding documents and in the name it took - would be the "way they were traditionally identified."

Just compare the nazi party planks to the Occupy Wall street list of demands. They're virtually identical.
35 posted on 02/25/2014 4:58:25 PM PST by cripplecreek (REMEMBER THE RIVER RAISIN!)
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To: cripplecreek

I know it’s true, but I’ve read it here and elsewhere hundreds of times, so how come it’s not catching, and since it’s not catching, maybe different methods oughta be used. I mean, it’s become a tired refrain, we are all already persuaded, enough.


36 posted on 02/25/2014 4:58:33 PM PST by Revolting cat! (Bad things are wrong! Ice cream is delicious! We reserve the right to serve refuse to anyone!)
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To: Farmer Dean
denial isn't just a river in Egypt...
37 posted on 02/25/2014 4:59:58 PM PST by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: MeganC

Bookmark


38 posted on 02/25/2014 5:03:07 PM PST by MeganC (Support Matt Bevin to oust Mitch McConnell! https://mattbevin.com/)
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To: cripplecreek
"The Party is all-embracing. It rules our lives in all their breadth and depth. We must therefore develop branches of the Party in which the whole of individual life will be reflected. Each activity and each need of the individual will thereby be regulated by the Party as the representative of the general good. There will be no license, no free space, in which the individual belongs to himself. This is Socialism - not such trifles as the private means of production."

Of what importance is that if I range men firmly within a discipline they cannot escape? Let them own land or factories as much as they please. The decisive factor is that the State, through the Party, is supreme over them, regardless whether they are owners or workers. All that, you see, is unessential. Our Socialism goes far deeper..."

"The people about us are unaware of what is really happening to them. The gaze fascinated at one or two superficialities, such as possessions and income or rank and other outworn conceptions. As long as these are kept intact, they are quite satisfied. But in the meantime, they have entered a new relation; a powerful social force has caught them up. They themselves are changed. What are ownership and income to that? Why need we trouble to socialize banks and factories? We socialize human beings."

Adolph HitlerThe Voice of Destruction pp 191-193

Straight from the horses, er, mouth so to speak. This reference really drives them nuts. Also - a little too eerily familiar in tone, no?

39 posted on 02/25/2014 5:13:53 PM PST by Noumenon (Resistance. Restoration. Retribution.)
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To: Caipirabob

I’ve been making similar comments about right vs left for a long time, love it! a liberal friend was dumbfounded when I pointed out that Nazis, commies and socialists are all the same and that they require total government control of the people.


40 posted on 02/25/2014 5:36:41 PM PST by bigtoona
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To: Hardastarboard
Dear Hardastarboard fellow FReper,
You need to understand that the term ‘right wing’ does indeed refer to the ‘right wing’ of the socialist movement or NAZI Party, as opposed the the ‘left wing’ or the Communist movement. The professor’s aide was correct.

You have taken the bait to heart - dished out by the US socialist left which more closely identifies itself with the Communist movement. Ever since Hitler betrayed the Communists by invading Russia, the US left has hated the NAZIs and sought to identify their enemies in the US as NAZIs or ‘right wingers’.

You, as a proud Conservative, are neither ‘right’ nor ‘left wing.’ Rather, you stand for conserving the principles this country was founded on, as well as Christian morality, etc.

Labeling yourself as a ‘right wing’ Conservative is to fall for the semantic trap laid by the left - words mean things and to fall for the trap is to muddle your message - as the left wishes.

41 posted on 02/25/2014 5:59:33 PM PST by PIF (They came for me and mine ... now it is your turn ...)
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To: cripplecreek
Timeline is important. Hitler first co-opted all the potential opposing centers of power like the unions but shortly, after consolidating his power, crushed the labor movement altogether.
42 posted on 02/25/2014 6:01:58 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: Caipirabob

Interesting chart.


43 posted on 02/25/2014 6:06:19 PM PST by Excellence (All your database are belong to us.)
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To: Carbonsteel
It is true that in Germany, when Hitler was named chancellor, he was given a cabinet dominated by Conservatives, who were expected to moderate and temper the Nazi firebrand. They were not Nazi allies but competitors, and represented among other factions the aristocratic officer corps of the military, who generally regarded Hitler with contempt.

"Right wing" came out of France not Germany, so it is ill fitting anyway; but the fact is conservatives were no friends of the nazi party.

44 posted on 02/25/2014 6:08:31 PM PST by hinckley buzzard
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To: PIF

Yup.

The right v. left paradigm just does not apply to American conservatism, which tries to conserve an ideology quite differnt that either of the groupings in the French Revolution from which the terms are derived.

The American Left, OTOH, is just a branch of the European Left.

It should be noted that while Nazism is at root a socialist and leftist ideology, it also incorporated a great deal from the European Right. What it has almost nothing in common with is today’s American conservatism.


45 posted on 02/25/2014 6:15:25 PM PST by Sherman Logan
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To: PIF

The origins of ‘left’ and ‘right’ are based on the events of the French Revolution. When the Estates General was convened in 1789, the radicals and ‘progressives’ sat on the left hand side of the chamber, the conservatives (who literally wanted to conserve France’s traditional institutions, including Christianity) sat on the right.

Conservatism can therefore accurately be described as ‘right-wing’. There was nothing conservative about the Nazis. They were radicals who loathed Christianity and the old order and sought to tear it down and rebuild society in their own image, embracing such ‘progressive’ policies such as eugenics.


46 posted on 02/25/2014 6:54:02 PM PST by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: cripplecreek

Exactly. Plus Hitler was a vegetarian, an anti-smoker and anti-gun rights for citizens. Those are FAR from American right wing viewpoints.


47 posted on 02/25/2014 7:13:53 PM PST by ReformationFan
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To: cripplecreek

A former co-worker of mine who is very liberal, when I reminded him what Nazi meant he did indeed become incandescent. Liberals hate the truth and what I found is they do everything to berate YOU or try to change the subject but refuse to face facts.


48 posted on 02/25/2014 7:41:36 PM PST by minnesota_bound
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To: cripplecreek

He is being too diplomatic, especially since the proper socialist term for rank and file liberals is “useful idiot”.


49 posted on 02/25/2014 7:48:08 PM PST by yawningotter
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To: Hardastarboard
The left likes to sees right-left as nationalist vs international....the right see right sees right-left as free market/capitalism/libertarian vs socialist /communist / state authoritarianism
50 posted on 02/25/2014 8:27:30 PM PST by tophat9000 (Are we headed to a Cracker Slacker War?)
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