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The mysterious coywolf, a mixture of western coyote and eastern wolf
PBS ^

Posted on 03/09/2014 2:01:08 PM PDT by DBCJR

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To: Salamander

DNA testing is the only way to determine whether these animals are coy-wolves or coy-dogs. It’s my impression that most hybrids are actually wolf-dog mixes and bred intentionally by humans, often for the purpose of sale. There is a market for such animals.


51 posted on 03/09/2014 3:41:00 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: ottbmare

Bear spray http://counterassault.com/


52 posted on 03/09/2014 3:42:31 PM PDT by nomad
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To: Valpal1

see also Valpal1’s post #30.

http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=coywolf&sm=3


53 posted on 03/09/2014 3:44:15 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: All

It seems to me that if its a true hybrid it won’t reproduce so each litter has to be a result of a new coupling between a domestic canine and a wild animal.
I’m surprised that this isnt a big problem in Detroit since there’s supposed to be a big feral dog and cat problem there plus probably abandoned exotic pets of various kinds. And not much money to operate Animal Control either.

I’ve never been a big fan of wolf hybrids. Nothing personal, if you have one. I just don’t get it.


54 posted on 03/09/2014 3:44:18 PM PDT by crazycatlady
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To: trisham

Correct.

Wolf hybrids are disgustingly common and coyote hybrids are a new fad.

What could possibly go wrong?

People have even attempted fox hybrids but mercifully, the chromosomes are mismatched.

I’ve known lots of people who have wolf hybrids locked up in outside runs, ignored except for feeding and watering because their “dog” was unmanageable and/or dangerous.

This is a sin.


55 posted on 03/09/2014 3:45:11 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Salamander; nomad

In ohio? Yes, it’s likely. Without DNA testing, we just can’t know for sure.


56 posted on 03/09/2014 3:45:52 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: W.Lee
I have them here on my farm in Loudoun County Virginia.

Maybe this is a dumb question. But, how would a half-wolf be in Virginia? I know we got coyotes. But where'd the wolf half come from?

57 posted on 03/09/2014 3:47:46 PM PDT by Forgotten Amendments (On the wrong side of history.)
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To: Salamander

Agreed. I understand that people are interested in wolves. They’re beautiful animals, but they are not dogs. It’s cruel to keep a wild animal, which is what a wolf-dog hybrid is, the way that some people do.


58 posted on 03/09/2014 3:48:51 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: crazycatlady

“Hybrid” is a misnomer.

They’re technically just crosses.

Hybrids are successful matings between not wholly genetically compatible animals such as horses and donkeys.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hybrid_%28biology%29

The video linked in the beginning of the thread gave an excellent accounting of the genetic fact that only the eastern wolf is able to breed with both coyotes and gray wolves.

They’re considered a ‘genetic bridge’, which is fascinating.


59 posted on 03/09/2014 3:49:07 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: trisham

Then why do they look kinda like dogs? I know a coyote when I see one, these are NOT coyotes.


60 posted on 03/09/2014 3:50:57 PM PDT by nomad
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To: nomad

We have two problems here. In NC the coyotes are interbreeding with the red wolf and the scientists are worried that the true red wolf is going to disappera. Of course they don’t where the state line is so you have to assume they are in GA also.

We also have the coyotes breeding with dogs which gives you a bigger coyote and not afraid of people. We have had a couple of run ins while walking the dogs. Mr. GG2 always carries especially at night.


61 posted on 03/09/2014 3:51:32 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose of a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: trisham

Yup.

I do know a woman who successfully kept pure wolves which are much more stable and predictable than dog/wolf crosses.

However, she was a professional dog trainer and understood wolf psychology.

She always treated them as wolves.

I could tell many more, less happy tales, though.


62 posted on 03/09/2014 3:52:11 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: DBCJR

That was very interesting - thanks for posting!

We have coyotes in my neighborhood - I’m pretty sure they are the reason my dog starts barking and growling like crazy at night.


63 posted on 03/09/2014 3:53:22 PM PDT by Aria ( 2008 & 2012 weren't elections - they were coup d'etats.)
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To: nomad

Because they’re dogs?

Lots of dog breeds kinda look like wolves/coyotes.


64 posted on 03/09/2014 3:53:24 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: trisham
Agreed, because these are NOT coyotes, I`ve handled coyote carcases and these are not coyotes.
65 posted on 03/09/2014 3:53:25 PM PDT by nomad
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To: Salamander

These are wolf-coyote hybrids, according to the DNA from 700 separate and geographically separated specimens.


66 posted on 03/09/2014 3:55:41 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Aria

I can always tell what’s up on the ridge by *how* my dogs react.

Deer, coywolves, humans, coons, etc; bark and growl like crazy.

Bears?

Alert, watchful *silence*.

LOL


67 posted on 03/09/2014 3:56:05 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: SunkenCiv

Carolina dogs or the coywolves?


68 posted on 03/09/2014 3:56:59 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Salamander
With coyote snouts? I`ve seen plenty of dog breeds and NEVER have I seen a dog with THAT long of a snout! We`re talking canine Toucans.
69 posted on 03/09/2014 3:57:08 PM PDT by nomad
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To: Salamander

The coywolves. The Dixie Dingo is another mystery.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/581423/posts


70 posted on 03/09/2014 3:59:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Grampa Dave

Thanks for posting that. It is an excellent video.


71 posted on 03/09/2014 4:04:48 PM PDT by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: nomad; Salamander

You might begin here:

http://wildlife.ohiodnr.gov/species-and-habitats/nuisance-wildlife

The Ohio Dept of Wildlife may be able to provide you with more information.


72 posted on 03/09/2014 4:05:51 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: SunkenCiv

Correct. It’s an outstanding study.


73 posted on 03/09/2014 4:07:52 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: SunkenCiv

We’re getting our lines crossed due to too much topic hopping, here.

I agree totally about the coywolves.

What is aggravating are the people swearing by “coydogs”, who, in the same sentence, say they walk their dogs carrying a gun because the coyotes will -kill- their dog if they don’t.

It’s either/or for ‘sex’ or ‘supper’, not both.

;]


74 posted on 03/09/2014 4:09:06 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: nomad

Ever seen a Borzoi?

An Azawakh?

A Galgo?

An Airedale/Fox/Welsh Terrier has an unusually long “snout”, relative to its head size.


75 posted on 03/09/2014 4:13:44 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Salamander

Yes, some of them do have non-standing ears, and odd coloring, too. About 25-30 years ago, there was a fad of sorts here in the hill country, with people deliberately breeding German Shepherds, Huskies, Malamutes and such to pet coyotes they weren’t even supposed to have and selling the pups, but the fines for that got a little high after awhile.

The game wardens say that these hybrids have become more common here, while the coyote/red wolf hybrids are more common elsewhere. There haven’t been many wolves in Texas for a very, very long time, but there are plenty of coyotes.

The human imagination is a marvelous thing-some people south of here insisted for years they had seen chupacabras-although I doubt they know what one looks like, if it does exist-but they turned out to be dog/coyote hybrids-I thought they looked more like hyenas than any chupacabra I’d heard of ...


76 posted on 03/09/2014 4:14:21 PM PDT by Texan5 (" You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: Salamander

Watchful silence is a really smart choice for bears!

Yikes!


77 posted on 03/09/2014 4:15:54 PM PDT by Aria ( 2008 & 2012 weren't elections - they were coup d'etats.)
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To: Salamander
It says closely related because it's not identical. However if you read the paper and not just the abstract you'd see:

Sequence analysis of 112 southeastern US coyotes revealed 24 unique haplotypes. One haplotype was highly divergent from all other coyote haplotypes with 24-30 bp differences in 394-400 bp, and an average divergence of 8.7%. The sequence did not match any canid sequence in Gen- Bank, and we refer to it as la24. This haplotype is more closely related to haplotypes of grey wolves, differing by 6-11 bp and an average divergence of 2.2%. We compared the divergent sequence found in coyotes to those found in a monophyletic group of dogs, designated clade I (Fig. 1, Vilˆ et al. 1999). This group probably represents the earliest radiation of domestic dog (Vilˆ et al . 1999). The domestic dogs in this clade differ from la24 by 2-5 bp and have an average divergence of 0.8%.

78 posted on 03/09/2014 4:19:44 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Texan5

People are still selling coyote/dogs for pets, as stupid as that may be.

I really think you just have generic feral dogs running amok.

That’s more common than you’d imagine, even in suburban areas so Texas would be paradise for them, no doubt.

As far as “Red Wolves” go

http://www.nsrl.ttu.edu/tmot1/canirufu.htm

They were thought to be extinct but some were found and bred in captivity and the pups released in the Carolinas.

Apparently they are no longer in Texas.


79 posted on 03/09/2014 4:24:08 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: nomad
if you do, ya better switch the .45, for a 30mm... 8^)
80 posted on 03/09/2014 4:24:26 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: Aria

I wholeheartedly agree!

Bears scare me silly!

:D


81 posted on 03/09/2014 4:24:56 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Salamander

You are correct-they are not technically hybrids-a mule or a liger is a hybrid-not one of these canine critters-thanks.


82 posted on 03/09/2014 4:25:14 PM PDT by Texan5 (" You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: Salamander
I really think you just have generic feral dogs running amok.

************************

Agreed.

83 posted on 03/09/2014 4:26:13 PM PDT by trisham (Zen is not easy. It takes effort to attain nothingness. And then what do you have? Bupkis.)
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To: Salamander

What I would find scary would be a cowwolf.


84 posted on 03/09/2014 4:30:03 PM PDT by ThomasThomas (Yes, You are always right /S)
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To: Valpal1

“This group probably represents the earliest radiation of domestic dog”

And that’s like forever ago, genetically speaking and irrelevant to the discussion of the current, apparently unkillable ‘coydog’ mythos.

98% of our genes match with chimps.

So what?

:)


85 posted on 03/09/2014 4:31:07 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Texan5

Will you come “back me up” on the next argument I’m in, involving the myth of “hybrid vigor”?

;D


86 posted on 03/09/2014 4:32:57 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: ThomasThomas

Ha!

:D


87 posted on 03/09/2014 4:33:40 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Salamander

Midwestern and southeastern coyotes were genetically 90 percent coyote, with an average of 7.5 percent dog and 2.5 percent wolf. The advanced genetic techniques used in this study also allowed the scientists to estimate when the hybridization initially occurred. Kays said “In most cases this breeding across species lines seems to have happened at times when humans were hunting eastern wolves to extinction, and the few remaininganimals could find no proper mates, so took the best option they could get.” Kays continues, “The exceptions were an older hybridization between coyotes and wolves in the western Great Lakes dating from 600-900 years ago, and a coyote-dog hybridization in the eastern U.S. about 50 years ago, when coyote were first colonizing eastern forests.”

More Information: http://artdaily.com/news/47591/New-York-State-Museum-Scientist—Dr—Roland-Kays—Co-Authors-Study-on-Wolves—Coyotes#.Uxz69fldWSo[/url]
Copyright © artdaily.org


88 posted on 03/09/2014 4:38:43 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Salamander

That is beyond stupid-that is like having a cross between a lynx/bobcat and a domestic cat for a pet-an unpredictable, dangerous and probably very unhappy pet-I’m convinced that people who breed domestic pets with wild animals must secretly hate animals...

This is BF Egypt where I live-a rural area 35 miles from the city and 22 miles from the nearest “town”, so we do not have a lot of feral dogs-at least not if they are dumb enough to stay in the woods where a cougar has a territory. The game wardens say these aggressive, odd ones are coyote/dog crosses-but they definitely aren’t chupacabras...

I’ve read about the rescue and preservation of the red wolves with great interest-there were supposedly some in East Texas, but I read they were found to be bred with coyotes-what a shame.


89 posted on 03/09/2014 4:41:11 PM PDT by Texan5 (" You've got to saddle up your boys, you've got to draw a hard line"...)
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To: Salamander
Ever seen a Borzoi?

My new next door neighbor has three of them. Interesting dogs and very friendly. Quiet too, I like that. Everything about them is long, slender and pointed. lol

90 posted on 03/09/2014 4:51:35 PM PDT by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: Texan5
You got that right.

I can't even wrap my head around "designer dogs", let alone wild/domestic crosses.

Who, for example, thought it was a Good Idea to mix Dobes and Standard Poodles?

Yikes!

They do have wild/domestic cat crosses, ya know.

What could possibly go wrong©?


91 posted on 03/09/2014 4:58:28 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: TigersEye; Salamander

It is an incredible video story, and a little scary.

Supposedly, they are not out in the West. However, some of us outdoor types have seen critters for years, something bigger and bolder than our usual Willie coyote and not as big as a wolf.

Their lack of shyness is a little unnerving. They probably
help keep the stray dog and cat population under control.


92 posted on 03/09/2014 5:02:32 PM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Obozo Care is a Trinity of Lies! Obozo Care is probably a serious Black Swan event.)
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To: cloudmountain

Thanks for the best BOL of the day.

” Coyotes are SUPER smart. Wolves are big, ferocious and fearless. WHAT a mixture. The hyrid coy wolves are, of course, doomed.

THANK GOD the Clintons only had one child.”


93 posted on 03/09/2014 5:08:08 PM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Obozo Care is a Trinity of Lies! Obozo Care is probably a serious Black Swan event.)
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To: Grampa Dave

Always a pleasure.


94 posted on 03/09/2014 5:09:46 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Salamander
I had a distant cousin in the Yucatan who had a baby ocelot for a pet.

I'm sorry...that "kitty" could RIP one's face off if s/he got ticked off.
MUCH better to let the wild cats and dogs STAY in the wild, no matter HOW CUTE they are as kitties and pups.

95 posted on 03/09/2014 5:12:22 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: Forgotten Amendments

“how would a half-wolf be in Virginia? I know we got coyotes. But where’d the wolf half come from?”

They may have bought a tour book about the Appalachian Trail and headed south in the winter to avoid the Gorebull warming.

http://www.amazon.com/Exploring-Appalachian-Trail-Virginias-Edition/dp/0811710661/ref=pd_bxgy_b_text_y#reader_0811710661


96 posted on 03/09/2014 5:21:53 PM PDT by Grampa Dave ( Obozo Care is a Trinity of Lies! Obozo Care is probably a serious Black Swan event.)
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To: Grampa Dave

Years ago, before the DNR caved and let people shoot them, a pack of them backed my elderly dad down a ridge.

He went 300 yards, backwards, over treacherous, rocky ground until he got to his truck and grabbed a rifle.

As soon as they saw the gun, they _took off_.

They intended to grab him.

When they first came here in the early 90s, they stood by cows and ewes, waiting for the babies being born and ate them while they were still in the placentas.

Farmers were livid but they were protected, having been imported to deal with over population of deer, which they totally ignored in favor of livestock and pets.

Some waited for the go ahead to legally shoot them, others didn’t.

I was only very lucky that my ridiculous fence kept them away from my dogs and goats.


97 posted on 03/09/2014 5:27:26 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Grampa Dave

We just have regular mostly scrawny western coyotes around here. I don’t really mind their presence but when they come through our yard I bang on a window or go out and yell at them to keep them on the defensive. I’ve tried on numerous occasions to sneak out and take a shot at them with a BB gun but no matter how quietly and quickly I get out there they will have shut up and gotten out of sight.


98 posted on 03/09/2014 5:27:50 PM PDT by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: cloudmountain

People come up with some wonderfully stupid ideas that, I reckon, must have seemed good, at the time.

:-\


99 posted on 03/09/2014 5:29:15 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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To: Grampa Dave

LOL


100 posted on 03/09/2014 5:29:38 PM PDT by Salamander (Quis custodiet ipsos custodes?)
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