Skip to comments.Do Most Americans Care If Crimeans & Eastern Ukrainians Vote To Join With Russia?
Posted on 03/10/2014 7:49:55 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
Like Seek and Find said, Catalonia is set to vote on whether or not to split off from Spain. Scotland has an Independence Referendum coming up in September, Crimea is set to vote nationally on this in 6 days, and Eastern Ukraine will most likely follow with a national vote to join with Russia.
Give it time, and Quebec will try again to become an independent nation...
The world fracturing into more and more countries seems to be accelerating...
What say you?
I say it is a conspiracy financed by the world’s map makers.
Its easier to control many small countries than it is one large one. Crimea is kind of an outlier in that sense.
In 1954, when the Ukraine was the Ukrainian SSR of the Soviet Union, Nikita Khrushchev literally gifted the Crimea to Ukraine as part of an internal USSR political deal to secure the support of the Ukrainian party bosses for his succession following the death of Stalin.
This was a purely internal USSR political gift with no international consequences in the 1950s. The Soviet military bases remained Soviet military bases. Khrushchev's unilateral political gift was of no concern to the world until the breakup of the USSR.
The way that Russians see the situation is that Putin is undoing Khrushchev's blunder. What Khrushchev gave away, Putin is taking back, and returning to the Russian fold.
It's important to understand this history. Crimea is the location of Russia's all-weather naval bases, and has been for over 200 years. The fluke of "Ukrainian Crimea" only lasted from 1954 until 2014, sixty years, a blink in historical terms. Before Khrushchev's unilateral political gift, Crimea was never part of Ukraine for one single day in recorded history.
Imagine a dictatorial President Eisenhower, on his own, "giving" NYC and Long Island to Connecticut in return for CT electoral college votes to assure his election. That is how Crimea was transferred to Ukraine in 1954.
Now, Putin is a KGB Soviet Gestapo thug, leader of assassins, and probably the greatest thief in history. But it's important to get the history right in order to avoid mistaking the situation for something it is not, and blundering into a major war. Crimea is not analogous to Latvia, Poland, or even the rest of Ukraine.
I’m waiting for someone to explain to me our interest there, beyond not letting Putin get his way.
1. So long as the elections are free and fair.
2. When will Flyover Country secede from Forward!stan?
Borders have shifted all the time in that neck of the woods.
That's pretty much it. I suspect if Putin loved fags, the State Department wouldn't even care.
Moat Americans don’t care if America joins Russia.
It’s Hitler marching into the Rhineland.
Could anyone really argue back in 1936, that the Rhineland didn’t belong to Germany?
I’m looking at that map. That small coastline Ukraine will have on the Black Sea....is it also majority ethnic Russian?
Let the Euro-Wienies take the lead on this one.
I question the freedom of any election in which an army of occupation is present.
No I don’t think Americans know the history of that area, nor do they care about certain regions becoming part of Russia. Americans do not care if Putin is trying to put the Russian empire back together.
I don’t care a flying rat’s behind. We are a bankrupt nation by any standards of accounting. It is like a person who can not pay his credit card debt trying to get involved with a neighbor’s fight with her husband over who gets to park in the garage. Just stay out of it. Roman empire vanished after pursuing foreign wars with a bankrupt treasury, Soviet Union went kaput after trying to compete with USA star wars program, Hitler’s Germany fell after sending armies to Russia, Alexander the Great’s demise began after his loss in battles in Asia. Learn from history or be doomed to repeat it.
If Putin stops after retaking Crimea, the world will forget it soon, and he will go down in Russian history as a great leader who deftly reversed Khrushchev's gift of Russian Crimea to Ukraine.
If he continues to take more and more of Ukraine or any other nations, he'll be the next Hitler.
It's too early to say which will happen.
It might be, or in might not be. If Hitler stopped after retaking “certified German territory” then there would have been no WW2, and Nazi Germany might still be a global superpower.
It’s too early to know.
Amen, just that with things as they are, nothing is going to prevent some kind of depression or economic calamity but when you are in a hole, its good advice to stop digging.
67% responded “a county, someplace in Idaho”
I don’t know about that...
The left/right, Dem/Repub dualist system is easier for the elite to control than if the Repub and Dem party both split up and we ended up with say 5 or 6 parties: a Tea Party, a barely center-right party, a Uber-Progressive Party, the center-left Dem Party, a Libertarian Party, etc.
Much harder for the elite to control in that sense. Perhaps the same holds true in other areas.
That’s when we’ll know.
Not over Crimea, which is wildly popular in Russia, and seen as reversing Khrushchev’s unilateral gift.
If Hitler had stopped after retaking German Rhineland, Danzig etc, there would not have been a WW2.
We’ll know in a while, but Crimea is not the proof (yet) that Putin is Hitler II.
“Odessa. I’m not sure about its ethnic makeup.”
“The city of Odessa, founded by order of Catherine the Great, Russian Empress, centres on the site of the Turkish fortress Khadzhibei, which was occupied by Russian Army in 1789.
Odessa during the Crimean War of 18531856 was bombarded by British and French naval forces. It soon recovered and the growth in trade made Odessa Russia’s largest grain-exporting port.
Ukrainians make up a majority (62 percent) of Odessa’s inhabitants, and there is a large ethnic Russian minority (29 percent); the primary language in the city continues to be Russian.
Through most of the 19th century and until the mid 20th century the largest ethnic group in Odessa was Russians, with the second largest ethnic group being the Jews: most of them being exterminated by the nazis, and the survivors emigrated to Israel after the war.
I really can't see leaving Ukraine without a coastline and still preserving any form of peace and stability. Of course, if Moldova rejoins Russia as seems likely at this point, you aren't going to get stability with an East Prussia type separation either.
I could not possibly care less.
I barely give a damn what happens in Connecticut
much less Ukraine
99% of Americans could not tell you what planet Crimea is on.
” Andrew Jackson gave the much more valuable Toledo strip to Ohio”
“much more valuable ?” Michigan can have it right now! It’s the armpit of Ohio!
No one but Hitler was Hitler. Hitler is a family name, not a noun or an adjective.
I got tired of this uncanny comparision, used in American politics and media..
Any leader US hate is a “hitler”: Saddam was a hitler, Gaddafi was another hitler, Milosevici was a small hitler and now Putin is a “hitler”...
Enough is enough; they are not able to keep up a political discussion out of the gutter.
It’s like the American politicians crying “wolf” : “Oh-là-là, Putin invaded Ukraine, there sent 16,000 troops in Crimea. Invasion ... new Hitler, occupation blah-blah”, deliberately ignoring that Russia had already legally more than 17,000 troops in Crimea, PRIOR the crisis.
Nowadays America has the most stupid, incompetent and laughable leadership in the world.
“99% of Americans could not tell you what planet Crimea is on.”
I saw it spelled “Crime” on some American fora. They might think they were talking about Chicago ...
Enough is enough; they are not able to keep up a political discussion out of the gutter.
No, it’s the Russians who can’t stay out of the gutter. They have a historical predisposition to rape and murder their neighbors. Putin is using the same playbook Stalin and Brezhnev used before him. Nothing new here at all.
Back when it mattered to all nations whether or not to align with the US, there would NEVER have been this kind of ‘political experimentation’.
Their options were more or less clear cut.
Communism or the US and Capitalism.
Now that “O” has basically neutered the US as a diplomatic entity and has mocked any edge we possessed over Communism and other brute governments... well, people world wide are left to sink or swim without the guidance and example of a strong, economically and socially stable America!
I could care less. Russia does what it wants.
Putin will probably pause his expansionist agenda with Crimea and continue to destabilize Ukraine. Once he gets another stooge in control of Ukraine he will move on to another small country he can bully. Probably in the Baltics because he can engage a weakened NATO there. If Russian tanks roll there it will be a shooting war with Russia or the end of NATO.
Most Americans just might, if Obama and the Rats can use Western MSM propaganda to create a common outside enemy to the fractured US electorate.
Obama, Progressive Rat, and Congressional approval ratings are at an all time low for the 2014 elections, and we need an outside big bad bully to get Americans to unite backing (and electing) the Democrat and moderate Republican freedom loving good guys to carry on the fight.
While picking everyone's pockets and collecting their guns.
The oldest trick in the book.
Best explanation of the situation that I’ve read to date.
I think NATO ended the day BO was re-elected. They just don’t know it yet.
If they did would it matter one way or the other?
My computer choked up when I tried to research the ethnic breakdown of Odessa. There have been pro-Russian protests about the city’s fate. It’ll be interesting to see how it unfolds in southern Ukraine. What we hear about is eastern Ukraine.
This gets interesting. Would those ethnic Jews be better off under Putin or under a potentially neo-Nazi Ukraine?
Aren’t there any potential ports on the Russian coast of the Black sea?
“What say you?”
My FR name says it all.
I assume not, not on the scale of Sevastapol etc.
Or there would be already.
“Would those ethnic Jews be better off under Putin or under a potentially neo-Nazi Ukraine?”
I don’t really know.
What I know is in the 19th century there were an estimated 5,500,000 Jews living in Russia. Under a law introduced by Alexander III, all Russian Jews were forced to live in what became known as the Pale of Jewish Settlement - which consisted of Polish provinces, stretching from Riga to Odessa, to Vilna and Kiev.
What I know is that 2.25 million Jews lived in Ukraine before the WWII. Most of them were killed in situ, in the woods and in the diches by nazis’ ukrainian collaborators, a big number were sent to the death camp Belzec, situated just over the border in Poland, and out of 19% survivors, many emigrated in Israel.
Actually, there are some 50,000 Jews still living in Ukraine.
New East Ukraine Flag:
Crimea would become part of Russia.
If, as I suspect, Crieams join Russia—they will need a land link—That means a corridor that will slice more off of Ukraine—good news, most of the people here speak Russian and wouldn’t really mind being back under the two headed eagle.
Is this bit of territory really worth a war? I think not—most Europeans will agree. Its just history happening all over again. Best advise—get ready because something big is about to happen.
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