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Pope to stop condemning same-sex civil partnerships
Daily Mail Online ^ | March 10, 2014 | Hannah Roberts

Posted on 03/10/2014 12:29:14 PM PDT by redleghunter

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To: redleghunter

no i am wondering if this is just dolan’s take on what he understands the pope to have said. the press wants the pope, much of it it seems, to be this uber liberal guy who’s the obama counterpart.

these are the people who report magazines and clips are the same things, after all. what story isn’t put out there with an agenda behind it? these are the people who scream they are objective yet vote over 90% democrat, they scream for an independent press free from control yet have not uttered a peep about having government “press officers” coming into their newsrooms.

that’s why i am saying i take every story now about francis with a grain of salt. unless he’s being directly quoted and if not in english, if the translation isn’t paraphrased, they are portraying him as they want to portray him.


51 posted on 03/10/2014 2:01:33 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: redleghunter

Next he’ll be holding mass in chaps and a smile.

I just didn’t think God’s word was so malleable.


52 posted on 03/10/2014 2:01:36 PM PDT by ChiefJayStrongbow
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To: redleghunter

I must be missing something.
I always understood that a sin was a sin. Period.
Is this no longer the case with the Catholic Church?


53 posted on 03/10/2014 2:07:40 PM PDT by SECURE AMERICA (Where can I go to sign up for the American Revolution 2014 and the Crusades 2014?)
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To: aMorePerfectUnion
Notice from the Vatican Office of Translation

Brilliant. Thanks.

54 posted on 03/10/2014 2:09:26 PM PDT by aimhigh ( Self defense - a human right.)
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To: livius
As for Pope Francis, I could see that the Church might ignore the “civil union” issue, which is, after all, a creation of the state and deals with civil matters such as inheritance, insurance, etc., as long as the state didn’t start trying to impose it’s definition of “marriage” on the Church and start trying to force the Church to accept it and perform these faux “marriages.”

I believe a point I made up thread was "why even mention a secular practice at all." Meaning, why did the Pope address it? He could have put that 'baby' to rest right away by saying the Catholic church accepts only those unions defined by their doctrine. That would have put to rest the speculation. But he did not and left an open flank.

55 posted on 03/10/2014 2:13:29 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: ChiefJayStrongbow

This will never happen in the Catholic church. It has already been debunked. The Pope always gives interviews in Italian and the media completely twists his message into something else.

The conversation didn’t have anything to do with homosexuals and the Pope was discussing the fact that some people (heterosexuals) don’t get married because they are too poor, or differences in cultures, so we shouldn’t necessarily consider those people as “living in sin” if they are for all intents and purposes devoted to each other and family for life. That’s it. There was no discussion about homosexuals.

This may come as a surprise for some FReepers, The media LIES!


56 posted on 03/10/2014 2:13:42 PM PDT by mgist (.)
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To: spudville

I don’t know if he actually said it or if the author has made this implication.

I can say that I am not fond of this pope, however I am not a rock solid Catholic either, so I would take my comment with a grain of salt on this.


57 posted on 03/10/2014 2:14:11 PM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: redleghunter

I don’t believe this for a moment.

Glad you trust the Daily Mail Online.....I don’t.


58 posted on 03/10/2014 2:16:37 PM PDT by Salvation ("With God all things are possible." Matthew 19:26)
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To: redleghunter

RE: Pope to stop condemning same-sex civil partnerships

I’d like to ask the writer of this article if he believes “not condemning” means celebrating or approving...


59 posted on 03/10/2014 2:19:30 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: redleghunter

I am so through with this denomination as well!!


60 posted on 03/10/2014 2:21:39 PM PDT by SgtHooper (If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.)
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To: SECURE AMERICA; daniel1212
I must be missing something. I always understood that a sin was a sin. Period. Is this no longer the case with the Catholic Church?

I believe the 'mess' Pope Francis and some others in RC leadership get into is because they are looking for a post-modern approach to reach sinners. The Protestant and Evangelical churches are not immune to this either. But we have one of the oldest churches in history (Eastern Orthodox probably the oldest) in ancient pomp addressing sin in a post-modern mindset.

Dolan et. al. will say "love the sinner, hate the sin" but they are having issues communicating such. Why? Because they have forgot how to conduct Biblical evangelism IAW well the Bible. Paul and the apostles condemned all sins and presented the Gospel which told men and women how to be free of their sins, not accommodate sin nor embrace it or compromise with it. Are Francis and Dolan stating they will accomodate sin or compromise on it to get people 'over' to hear the Gospel? No I don't think they are, but their words in so many words sure implies that and it seems they are in an uncomfortable position of wanting to condemn sin but not 'worry' the sinner about their sin.

61 posted on 03/10/2014 2:26:36 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: kitkat

Dolan played loose with what the Pope said. Not judging and condoning are quite different. I thought I thought the entire interview with Dolan was all about Dolan.


62 posted on 03/10/2014 2:27:03 PM PDT by mortal19440
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To: mgist
The conversation didn’t have anything to do with homosexuals and the Pope was discussing the fact that some people (heterosexuals) don’t get married because they are too poor, or differences in cultures, so we shouldn’t necessarily consider those people as “living in sin” if they are for all intents and purposes devoted to each other and family for life. That’s it. There was no discussion about homosexuals.

The article points out the Pope was addressing civil unions, all of them. He did say there are a variety. He did not expound on what he meant by "variety." However, given your above explanation, one would conclude the Pope is fine with a man and woman living together out of wed-lock. I thought the Catholic church condemned such arrangements. Perhaps the Pope could have said "for widows/widowers living together to make ends meet and join in civil unions, the church can make exceptions." But Pope Francis did not say that and did not even imply that. He could have, but he left the door open for all the interpret. Plus we know civil unions are mostly used by homosexuals. My point? Why even address the issue.

63 posted on 03/10/2014 2:34:45 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: redleghunter

Slippery slope..

Of course if one would simply take God at His Word, then what any pope, or church leaders say really is irrelevant.


64 posted on 03/10/2014 2:37:59 PM PDT by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: mgist

From the Meet the Press webpage:

Cardinal Dolan: Pope Francis Wants Church to Study Gay Unions

By Tom Curry

Cardinal Timothy Dolan of New York said Sunday that Pope Francis believes the Catholic Church needs to examine why some states are choosing to legalize civil unions of gay couples. But the pontiff has not expressed approval of such unions, Dolan said.

“He didn’t come right out and say he was for them,” Dolan said in an exclusive interview on NBC’s Meet the Press. What the pope has said, according to Dolan, is that church leaders need to “look into it and see the reasons that have driven them…. Rather than quickly condemn them… let’s just ask the questions as to why that has appealed to certain people….”

http://www.nbcnews.com/#/meet-the-press/cardinal-dolan-pope-francis-wants-church-study-gay-unions-n48236

Context is gay civil unions. Dolan says the Pope did not endorse them. The door is wide open...


65 posted on 03/10/2014 2:39:50 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: redleghunter

I believe he was asked about it in the course of an interview.

However, one of the things I don’t like about Pope Francis is that I think he’s at least somewhat a statist, probably just because of his Argentinian background. Maybe he’ll correct, maybe not. He seems to avoid conflicts with the state, and while I agree that we shouldn’t go out and look for them or stir them up, we shouldn’t be so conciliatory that the state thinks we’re weak or vacillating. And I think that’s what’s happening with him.


66 posted on 03/10/2014 2:42:11 PM PDT by livius
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To: mgist

some people (heterosexuals) don’t get married because they are too poor, or differences in cultures, so we shouldn’t necessarily consider those people as “living in sin”


Of course they are living in sin, however so is anyone that hasn’t been “born again” so we all are no different from them. The people that are made right are on so because they believe Jesus and have been “born of the Spirit”.

-JS


67 posted on 03/10/2014 2:42:29 PM PDT by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: Salvation
I don’t believe this for a moment. Glad you trust the Daily Mail Online.....I don’t.

The list of news outlets getting the Pope wrong or out of context grows each day it seems. Pope Francis has to be the most misunderstood, misinterpreted and mistranslated Pope in modern history. Is it a left wing press conspiracy? Perhaps, that has something to do with it. But as an old Soldier I learned early you don't give the enemy ammunition to use against you.

Pope John Paul II said something it was clearly reported. Bottom line you knew what he said and what he meant. Same with Benedict XVI. Why such a problem with this Pope? Is it possible he is "throwing spaghetti at the wall" to see what will stick?

Advice for Pope Francis handlers. Tell him to make his Yes, Yes and his No, No. If not, don't expound on the matter at all. And then don't have a Cardinal go out and make matters worse.

68 posted on 03/10/2014 2:48:24 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: redleghunter

“Advice for Pope Francis handlers. Tell him to make his Yes, Yes and his No, No. If not, don’t expound on the matter at all. And then don’t have a Cardinal go out and make matters worse. “

Oh, I am SO glad you said that. Pope Francis is often misunderstood when he speaks, and I’ve wished his people would read over his remarks and make it plainer in ENGLISH, so that the leftwing media can’t misquote him.


69 posted on 03/10/2014 3:08:08 PM PDT by kitkat (STORM THE HEAVENS WITH PRAYERS FOR OUR COUNTRY.)
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To: what's up

“If you can’t, please refrain from posting bad info.”

As someone else has said, the Pope’s handlers need to make sure his English is plain so that the leftist media can’t claim he said otherwise.


70 posted on 03/10/2014 3:13:41 PM PDT by kitkat (STORM THE HEAVENS WITH PRAYERS FOR OUR COUNTRY.)
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To: redleghunter

Is this from the Onion??


71 posted on 03/10/2014 3:14:30 PM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: kitkat
Oh, I am SO glad you said that. Pope Francis is often misunderstood when he speaks, and I’ve wished his people would read over his remarks and make it plainer in ENGLISH, so that the leftwing media can’t misquote him.

Pope Francis' problem is he is a Jesuit. I went to a Jesuit university and know the Jebbies love to answer every "yes/no" question with "it depends." So again, the Pope needs to let his Yes be Yes and his No be No. No to gay 'marriage' and No to civil unions. That would have been the end of the news cycle. But no, he implied "it depends."

72 posted on 03/10/2014 3:26:41 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: chris37

I know what you mean. John Paul is hard to follow. He wasn’t afraid of the world and did not let the press manage him. That being said, we were in different times. Reagan was in the white house and America was standing tall and proud. Now it’s hard to find anything to be proud of. Evil seems to be rampant and accepting evil is encouraged and almost forced.
I am not Catholic but I have attended with my Catholic angel of a wife for over 30 years and I think it has made me a better person and given me faith.


73 posted on 03/10/2014 3:27:28 PM PDT by spudville
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To: kitkat
As someone else has said, the Pope’s handlers need to make sure his English is plain so that the leftist media can’t claim he said otherwise.

I did not exactly say that. I said the Popes no should be no and his yes should be yes. The handlers can help him actually answer questions unequivically.

74 posted on 03/10/2014 3:28:16 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: Elsie

LOL! No an article coving Dolan’s interview on Meet the Depressed.


75 posted on 03/10/2014 3:28:54 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: aquila48
<>The fundamental transformation of the Catholic church by the pope continues apace.

We are stuck with Obama and the Catholics are stuck with Pope Francis.-Tom

76 posted on 03/10/2014 3:29:46 PM PDT by Capt. Tom (Don't confuse U.S. citizens and Americans. They are not necessarily the same. -tom)
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To: redleghunter

Worst. Headline. Ever.

The pope said no such thing. The media just keep trying to twist everything he says.


77 posted on 03/10/2014 3:47:43 PM PDT by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: al_c

I tried to fit the entire headline. Is this better?

“Pope to stop condemning same-sex civil partnerships hints leading cardinal in move which could be step towards Catholic gay marriage”


78 posted on 03/10/2014 3:56:57 PM PDT by redleghunter
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To: spudville

I really, really miss those times, and I am very glad that they live in my memories.


79 posted on 03/10/2014 3:57:48 PM PDT by chris37 (Heartless.)
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To: lastchance

That is a pretty fine hair to split.

This pretty much assures that there will be a suit filed against a church soon that will lead to forced ceremonies preformed with same sex couples.

After all, the pope said that such civil unions were ok, so lets do it in a church!


80 posted on 03/10/2014 4:17:10 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redleghunter

For serious, orthodox Catholics, if this comes to pass, they have no place left.

One of the core dogma’s in the Catholic church is that the Pope can NOT be wrong in regards to faith and morals.

If that happens, you will not have a schism, but an apostasy. The Pope making a statement that is against the faith and morals of the ancient church means that either the Papal infallibility is wrong (which as a Catholic, it is considered a dogma) or that Francis is not the Pope. Either path leads to the end of the Catholic church as it is today.

Some will try to go Orthodox, but that isn’t all it appears to be either. Many will fall away.


81 posted on 03/10/2014 4:21:37 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

In countries where there is an established church that has already happened.


82 posted on 03/10/2014 4:23:24 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: redleghunter

Luther did say that (or something close). Full disclosure, I am a Lutheran.

It was a common thing back then. Remember, it was shortly after the Papacy moved backed to Rome from France.


83 posted on 03/10/2014 4:23:44 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: lastchance

Really? In the Catholic church as well?

Didn’t know that. Do you have a link? Thanks in advance, I have to go make supper.


84 posted on 03/10/2014 4:25:30 PM PDT by redgolum ("God is dead" -- Nietzsche. "Nietzsche is dead" -- God.)
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To: redgolum

Not the Catholic Church. I don’t recall if it is Norway or Sweden where the official state church is compelled to marry same sex couples. I know in England there is a suit filed to require the COE to perform marriage ceremonies for same sex couples but it has not been decided yet.


85 posted on 03/10/2014 4:57:19 PM PDT by lastchance ("Nisi credideritis, non intelligetis" St. Augustine)
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To: JSDude1

Well since you are not my Pope, I’m sure you understand that I’ll stick with the person that Jesus picked to lead our faith.


86 posted on 03/10/2014 7:42:16 PM PDT by mgist (.)
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To: livius

Kirshner tried to have Pope Francis jailed when he was a priest. Religious people are not supposed to be political activists, they are called to defend the faith. He has done that. We are all supposed to avoid conflicts. God is very clear about that. We are called to depend on God to lead us.

Our problem is that we as a nation are not looking to God for direction. Too many Americans despise immigrants, hate their enemies (I loathe Soros), too little brotherly love. We have to pray, because the reality is that none of us are in control.


87 posted on 03/10/2014 7:52:33 PM PDT by mgist (.)
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To: Obadiah

The Catholic Church is the ONLY one to stand up to progressivism. If they fall, there is no Christian church that will stand up to the Marxists who want to destroy religious opposition.

We are fixin to be on our own.


88 posted on 03/10/2014 8:07:25 PM PDT by Texas resident
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To: what's up

I don’t have to. How a bout you proving what you say the Pope said is correct. I have faith he didn’t say that.


89 posted on 03/10/2014 8:08:54 PM PDT by deweyfrank
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To: mgist

Ok, and I’ll just follow Jesus, no Pope, or other Human Priest need intercede (Thank God)!


90 posted on 03/10/2014 11:17:21 PM PDT by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: redleghunter

Better ... but still not what the Pope said. The Bishop should know better than to say crap like that.


91 posted on 03/11/2014 3:47:21 AM PDT by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: redleghunter

Oops ... I meant Cardinal, not bishop.


92 posted on 03/11/2014 3:48:49 AM PDT by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: al_c
The pope said no such thing. The media just keep trying to twist everything he says.


GOD said no such thing. The QUEERS just keep trying to twist everything HE says.


The Health Risks of gay sex.

http://www.catholiceducation.org/articles/homosexuality/ho0075.html

 

Genesis 13:13
Now the men of Sodom were wicked and were sinning greatly against the LORD.

Genesis 18:20-21
20. Then the LORD said, "The outcry against Sodom and Gomorrah is so great and
their sin so grievous
21. that I will go down and see if what they have done is as bad as the outcry that has reached me. If not, I will know."

Genesis 19:4-7
4. Before they had gone to bed, all the men
from every part of the city of Sodom--both young and old--surrounded the house.
5. They called to Lot, "Where are the men who came to you tonight? Bring them out to us so that we can have sex with them
."
6. Lot went outside to meet them and shut the door behind him
7. and said, "No, my friends. Don't do this wicked thing.

Psalms 12:8 The wicked freely strut about when what is vile is honored among men.

Doonesbury Cartoon for Feb/08/2013

Isaiah 3:9 The look on their faces testifies against them; they parade their sin like Sodom; they do not hide it. Woe to them! They have brought disaster upon themselves.

2 Peter 2:13b Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.


Ezekiel 16:49-50
49. "`Now this was the sin of your sister Sodom: She and her daughters were arrogant, overfed and unconcerned; they did not help the poor and needy.
50. They were haughty and did detestable things before me. Therefore I did away with them as you have seen.



2 Peter 2

1. But there were also false prophets among the people, just as there will be false teachers among you. They will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying the sovereign Lord who bought them--bringing swift destruction on themselves.
2. Many will follow their shameful ways and will bring the way of truth into disrepute.
3. In their greed these teachers will exploit you with stories they have made up. Their condemnation has long been hanging over them, and their destruction has not been sleeping.
4. For if God did not spare angels when they sinned, but sent them to hell, putting them into gloomy dungeons to be held for judgment;
5. if he did not spare the ancient world when he brought the flood on its ungodly people, but protected Noah, a preacher of righteousness, and seven others;
6. if he condemned the cities of Sodom and Gomorrah by burning them to ashes, and made them an example of what is going to happen to the ungodly;
7. and if he rescued Lot, a righteous man, who was distressed by the filthy lives of lawless men
8. (for that righteous man, living among them day after day, was tormented in his righteous soul by the lawless deeds he saw and heard)--
9. if this is so, then the Lord knows how to rescue godly men from trials and to hold the unrighteous for the day of judgment, while continuing their punishment.
10. This is especially true of those who follow the corrupt desire of the sinful nature and despise authority. Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings;
11. yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord.
12. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand. They are like brute beasts, creatures of instinct, born only to be caught and destroyed, and like beasts they too will perish.
13. They will be paid back with harm for the harm they have done.
Their idea of pleasure is to carouse in broad daylight. They are blots and blemishes, reveling in their pleasures while they feast with you.



But there IS hope!!!

1 Corinthians 6:9-11

9. Do you not know that the wicked will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived:
Neither the sexually immoral nor idolaters nor adulterers nor male prostitutes nor homosexual offenders
10. nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God.
11. And that is what some of you were. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God.


If you could NOT change, you would be in most pitiful shape...
 

 
 
 
 
 
 


The Health Risks of gay sex.


93 posted on 03/11/2014 4:35:18 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JSDude1
Ok, and I’ll just follow Jesus, no Pope, or other Human Priest need intercede (Thank God)!

Good!

For He never condemned we gay folk!


94 posted on 03/11/2014 4:38:21 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JSDude1
For He never condemned we gay folk!

True; He merely mentioned what happened to the towns the homo's chose to live in - in vast numbers...


Matthew 10:11-15
Whenever you enter a town or village, find out who is worthy there and stay with them until you leave. As you enter the house, give it greetings. And if the house is worthy, let your peace come on it, but if it is not worthy, let your peace return to you. And if anyone will not welcome you or listen to your message, shake the dust off your feet as you leave that house or that town. I tell you the truth, it will be more bearable for the region of Sodom and Gomorrah on the day of judgment than for that town!

95 posted on 03/11/2014 4:45:35 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: JSDude1

What the deluded, deceived and quite possibly possessed say about Sodom...

http://www.gaychristian101.com/Sin-of-Sodom.html


96 posted on 03/11/2014 4:48:09 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

Indeed.


97 posted on 03/11/2014 5:28:59 AM PDT by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: Elsie

I really don’t know where you’re going with your replies to my comment.

I agree homosexuality is condemned, as is any other sin.

I believe the whole Bible “You must be born again” Anyone (everyone) must be “born again” by God to be saved from sin and death.

Blessings,

-JS


98 posted on 03/11/2014 9:23:32 AM PDT by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: JSDude1
I really don’t know where you’re going with your replies to my comment.

Just getting info out there that others may not have ever considered.

99 posted on 03/11/2014 9:32:40 AM PDT by Elsie (Heck is where people, who don't believe in Gosh, think they are not going...)
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To: Elsie

100 posted on 03/11/2014 10:30:23 AM PDT by redleghunter
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