Skip to comments.Ukrainians Want to Arm Themselves to the Teeth
Posted on 03/15/2014 1:59:21 PM PDT by nickcarraway
As the crisis continues, both demand and prices for weapons have gone up. We speak to their version of the NRA
Can you imagine snipers shooting people in Times Square? You must imagine that to understand how we feel.
Thats the hypothetical posed to us by George Uchaykin, the 44-year-old head of the Ukrainian Gun Owners Association. Given the current political chaos in Ukraine and the events leading up to it, Uchaykin and his cohorts are pushing for new laws on gun control that would allow citizens to carry handguns to defend themselves.
Ukrainian Arms Dealer 01 George Uchaykin (Facebook) This is our main square, where it all happened, Uchaykin says, referring to Kievs Independence Square, where riot police snipers shot and killed protesters in February. We couldnt imagine this in the 21st century. We werent ready for this.
Most Ukrainians were caught completely off guard by the state-sponsored brutality. The new interior minister has issued an arrest warrant for ousted President Viktor Yanukovych and his colleagues for mass murder. But in a darker side effect, civilians are now stocking up on firepower. In the past month, sales of firearmsboth legal and illegalhave skyrocketed in the country.
According to Uchaykin, pump-action shotguns and AK-47 ammunition are completely sold out in Kiev. People understand that they can only count on themselves and that is why they try to buy as many firearms and ammunition as they can, he says, speaking to me via Skype video with the help of a translator. He was wearing a black shirt with a picture of a pistol that read (in Ukrainian), Free men own guns. Slaves dont.
The Ukrainian Gun Owners Association, now 5 years old, is taking advantage of the current political climates uncertainty to push forward legislation that would amend the countrys Constitution to include something like Americas Second Amendment and expand existing gun laws to allow concealed carry of handguns.
Gun laws now in Ukraine are restrictive: Handguns are completely banned for the average citizen; only law enforcement and journalists can purchase certain handguns with a license. Licenses to own rifles and shotguns may also be obtained with good reason, like target shooting or hunting. From The New York Times Gun Report:
The government is in possession of more than seven million guns, while three million weapons, both legal and illicit, are in the hands of private citizens, creating a staggering gulf in firepower. By comparison, in the United States, there are 310 million guns in private hands, with only 3.85 million possessed by the military and police forces.
On the Hunters and Gun Lovers Ukrainian web forum, we found a post asking why gun prices have spiked recently. Commenters speculate that its related to currency inflation and the new huge demand created by political upheaval. A longtime forum user named Frost writes, Three months ago, I was trying to sell my shotgun. Got very few phone calls. Today the phone calls dont stop, but I dont sell it anymore!
Frosts post encouraged us to look for active gun markets onlinethere are a few, including smaller gun markets on Vkontakte, the Russian Facebook. Gun Forums of Ukraine has 1,238 members, and there are myriad ads from people trying to sell their guns, from pistols to AK-47s to sniper rifles. Many are publicly listed as unregistered, and some even display them for sale on YouTube.
HOW WE KNOW We searched gun-owner forums in Ukrainian and Russian and came across reports of a spike in prices, so we decided to dig in.
We pulled data from the last month and found that of all the weapons being sold on the ss.ua website, the most common listings were for shotguns and sniper rifles (75 percent), followed by pistols and handguns (19 percent), and then assault rifles (6 percent). The data is calculated from 1,000-plus weapons ads.
HOW WE KNOW We gathered more than 1,200 ads from Feb. 11 through March 6, 2014, and eliminated ads for accessories or something other than weapons. Then we grouped the weapon types together based on their various names in Ukrainian, Russian and English.
The most popular weapon by far is the MP-27 hunting rifle, which accounts for 26 percent of all guns listed. The average price for an MP-27 is 3,965 Ukrainian hryvnia (about $438). The most popular pistol is the Stalker (average price 1,345 hryvnia /$147) and the most popular assault rifle are the Saiga-12 and 410 (average 4376 hryvnia/$480).
Ukrainian Arms Dealer 05 A sniper rifle on sale on a Craigslist-like Ukrainian listing website, ss.ua. Listed for $5,500. The Ministry of Internal Affairs basically has a blank check to enforce whatever gun laws they feel are appropriate at any given moment. We dont have firearm legislation, everything is regulated by the Ministry which can change the rules at any times, explains Andrey Kuznetsov, another member of the Ukrainian Gun Owners group. For example, one day we woke up and found out that 30-round magazines and shotgun magazine extensions are no longer legal.
The government recently announced an amnesty campaign from March 4 to 21 for Ukrainians to turn in their illegal weapons. But Uchaykin isnt holding his breath.
So we think that this initiative [from the Interior Ministry] wont be successful. And if we dont have our steps [on the political agenda] approved, one day they will take them by force, he says. Our country will be doomed.
Now we have situation where we have internal threats from the regime [government in Ukraine], and also we have huge problems with a possible invasion from Russia, Uchaykin says, also mentioning a high level of street crime.
The Gun Owners Association website is peppered with quotes about liberty and freedom, echoing the U.S.-based NR. For their part, the American organization has jumped into the news cycle to capitalize on Ukraines restrictive gun laws. For American gun lobbyists who have cited easy access to firearms as an insurance policy against government oppression, the turmoil in Kiev is a perfect talking point, writes Scott Bixby.
Ukrainian Arms Dealer 03 A pistol on sale for 1,500 hryvnia, or approximately $163. Uchaykin is also appealing to U.S. manufacturers who export arms to Ukraine. He says local businesses that sell arms arent friendly to their cause, but have close relations with the police.
This is what we have here now: I own an AK-47 but I cannot own a handgun, Uchaykin said. This was done to make a monopoly so that only the Ministry of Internal Affairs can provide security services, but no one can protect can himself.
As for their own funding, they accept donations and sell membership packages which start at 300 hryvnia for a basic package (about $32), and go up to a five-year package for 2,500 hryvnia, or about $273. Uchaykin says membership has dramatically increased over the last few months. The Euromaidan protests began in November 2013, and intensified in December and January when the government attempted to violently suppress the demonstrations. Hundreds were shot in February.
I asked about the spike in prices and how Ukrainians can afford to arm themselves in the status quo. (Side note: If you have 5 million U.S. dollars, you can buy a Tupolev Tu-95 Bear, a strategic bombing and missile platform, listed on eBay as located in Ukraine.)
If people in Ukraine can afford to buy a car, they can afford to buy a firearm, Uchaykin says. Because now they understand that firearms are more important than cars.
Ukrainian Arms Dealer 04 As for that external threat from Russia, Uchaykin says: Russia is always ready to attack and has very big military potential. We only can say we have very good traditions of resistance. Ukraine can stop Russia for some time, but their forces are much bigger and much stronger than Ukraines.
We will have to change a lot of things. We are starting from scratch, writing our own history, and today we can prevent our country from being divided into many parts. We want America to understand that in the center of Europe, in the 21st century, a country of 45 million people is fighting for its future.
On a national scale, they would complete FOOLS for giving up their ‘nukes’.
It makes total sense to allow their citizens to be armed. Under the current circumstances, it might even be wise to make it mandatory. Every household armed with AKs, 1,000 rounds of ammo, and some magazines.
Given how so many in their country desire to join the EU, I doubt they would be smart enough to implement such a policy, however.
If every Ukrainian had a rifle and 300 rounds of ammunition, that might make the Russians rethink whatever invasion ideas they might have. The Ukrainian government should be building militia formations right now.
Did Clinton FORCE them to, when they signed that ridiculous Budapest Memorandum in 1994?
There are nearby countries who can and will, no doubt, start providing them with firearms. If Putin pushes for a full takeover, let’s hope the Ukrainians defend their homeland and send lots of Russians home dead. Then, we’ll see how great of a leader the ex-KGB and autocrat Putin is.
Ruger should sell them mini 14s and mini 30s. Heck even a million 10/22s would help.
in fact I can imagine obama’s goons sniping people in Times Square, in the nation’s Capitol, and kicking in doors.
Lend Lease 2014
The most difficult part of making a decent rifle is the barrel. The machines to make even cheap barrels in an industrial scale run about $1 million but they can crank out a barrel every 5 min to 10 min or so. However, there are older ways to make barrels that are less costly. The trade off being that they take much longer to make a barrel.
If I were the Ukraine, I would be putting a few million of any EU or US aid money into building a couple of barrel factories. I’d also be working with existing machinists to crank out a few million gun parts. AKs are easy to make but are not as accurate as the M16 line. M-16 lowers can be made from casting 80% lowers and then milling out certain parts. I estimate that 1 machinist could mill out 2 lowers per day. Massive parallel 3d printing of AR lowers might work as an alternative.
Arm each citizen, train them in the care and use, train them in how to shoot accurately at 300 to 500 meters. Train 100 as snipers, then have that 100 train another 100 each. A nation of trained urban snipers would be DAMN difficult to overrun.
You know if the Russians come in, the FIRST thing they will do is seize the records of who has what, and then demand people turn their stuff in.
“He was wearing a black shirt with a picture of a pistol that read (in Ukrainian), Free men own guns. Slaves dont.
That is beautiful poetry...
They should find the warehouses of the exporters that send Mosin Nagants over here. Should be several million there. Dunno if 7.62x54r ammo is readily available, though.
They gave up nukes and we agreed to protect them from invasion ...so much for that!
Stupidity all around.
The fact that the U.S. has been doing the same thing since Obama’s election is both disturbing and reassuring.
I believe Russia was in on it too.
Naturally, countries that possess Nuclear weapons would tend to discourage others from getting/having them. Why give up that advantage? I believe that’s another motivation of the whole “Global warming” thing. If you’re a developed country, it’s in your advantage to see large undeveloped countries to remain undeveloped and not advance to where they can potentially compete with you.
The long term effect this entire matter is going have is kissing any chance of nonproliferation goodbye!
SNIPER 101 Part 1 - Introduction - Rex Reviews - YouTube
Ruger could give them a million 10/22s. Try getting ammo for them.
And I say this is a good idea!