Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

“Kid, I’m Sorry, but You’re Just Not College Material”
Slate ^ | 03/19/2014 | By Michael J. Petrilli

Posted on 03/19/2014 1:11:03 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

It’s an article of faith in the school reform community that we should be striving to prepare all students for success in college—if not a four-year degree, then some other recognized and reputable post-secondary credential.

The rationale is clear and generally compelling; as a recent Pew study reiterated, people who graduate from college earn significantly more than those who do not.

Other research indicates that low-income students in particular benefit from college, becoming nearly three times more likely to make it into the middle class than their peers who earn some (or no) college credits. And it’s not just about money: College graduates are also healthier, more involved in their communities, and happier in their jobs.

Thus, in the reformers’ bible, the greatest sin is to look a student in the eye and say, “Kid, I’m sorry, but you’re just not college material.”

But what if such a cautionary sermon is exactly what some teenagers need? What if encouraging students to take a shot at the college track—despite very long odds of crossing its finish line—does them more harm than good? What if our own hyper-credentialed life experiences and ideologies are blinding us to alternative pathways to the middle class? Including some that might be a lot more viable for a great many young people? What if we should be following the lead of countries like Germany, where “tracking” isn’t a dirty word but a common-sense way to prepare teenagers for respected, well-paid work?

Here’s a stark fact: According to research by Georgetown’s Anthony Carnevale and Jeff Strohl, less than 10 percent of poor children now graduate with a four-year college degree.

(Excerpt) Read more at slate.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Education; Society
KEYWORDS: college

1 posted on 03/19/2014 1:11:03 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Why push students down educational paths that will likely result in them dropping out? We should give everybody options that will help them succeed.
2 posted on 03/19/2014 1:11:38 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (question is this)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

If he was “College Material”, he might wear safety goggles while operating the saw.


3 posted on 03/19/2014 1:17:44 PM PDT by NEMDF
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Another cause and effect mistake

The smartest kids graduate from college and then go on to earn more money... but going to college didn’t make them smart, they were smart to begin with and would have been more likely to earn more anyway.

Anyone who believes that sending a retarded kid to college will somehow magically transform him into someone smart who will earn more is a sucker who is going to end up with a lots of loans to pay back and nothing to show for it.

There are lots of jobs that earn good money that dont require much college if any. You just have to be willing to get a little dirty, sweat, or travel.


4 posted on 03/19/2014 1:18:29 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

“Thus, in the reformers’ bible, the greatest sin is to look a student in the eye and say, “Kid, I’m sorry, but you’re just not college material.””

No, the biggest sin is telling a kid he cannot go to college because his spot was given to an affirmative action candidate. A not will the kid make less money, but his opportunity was taken away from him by someone who otherwise would be told, kid, you are just not college material.


5 posted on 03/19/2014 1:18:50 PM PDT by EQAndyBuzz ("Heck of a reset there, Hillary")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Yep. The reality is that we have an oversupply of majors in puppetry qualified for a career at Occupy Wall Street. Coupled with a vast shortage of kids with skills in HVAC, refrigeration and a host of other immediately marketable skills.


6 posted on 03/19/2014 1:19:19 PM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Modern colleges are largely not college material.


7 posted on 03/19/2014 1:21:10 PM PDT by Amagi (Lenin: "Socialized Medicine is the Keystone to the Arch of the Socialist State.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Heaven forbid!!! Telling a student that he’s not cut out for college will damage his self-esteem which will traumatize him forever. (Do I really need a /sarcasm tag here?)


8 posted on 03/19/2014 1:21:21 PM PDT by Bob
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

I think every high school graduate should go on to learn reading, writing, and arithmetic.


9 posted on 03/19/2014 1:23:46 PM PDT by Born to Conserve
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
"Here’s a stark fact: According to research by Georgetown’s Anthony Carnevale and Jeff Strohl, less than 10 percent of poor children now graduate with a four-year college degree."

Is it because they were money poor or intellectually poor? I believe that high schools teach the same material to the money rich and the money poor. Colleges should loan good students the necessary money and teach them well or they won't get their money back.

10 posted on 03/19/2014 1:24:43 PM PDT by ex-snook (God is Love)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

As if “College Material” is better material than anyone else.


11 posted on 03/19/2014 1:25:53 PM PDT by VanDeKoik
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Born to Conserve

“I think every high school graduate should go on to learn reading, writing, and arithmetic.”

Bingo. Most public schools suck so badly that students who could be prepared for college, aren’t.


12 posted on 03/19/2014 1:28:50 PM PDT by FXRP
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
George Bush's mistake was that he should have named his education reform bill the Every 5th Child Left Behind bill.

-PJ

13 posted on 03/19/2014 1:29:18 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

14 posted on 03/19/2014 1:30:40 PM PDT by dfwgator
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: NEMDF

First thing I notice too. But it looks like he does need more edumakation - he hasn’t learned to turn the thing on either. (BTW - I have a staged photo of me in my old high school yearbook pretending to do a sports action shot. How stupid - I looked like a dork! And my kids say I still do!)


15 posted on 03/19/2014 1:35:58 PM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: TexasFreeper2009

Exactly!


16 posted on 03/19/2014 1:38:41 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Bob

A kid should simply be told the stats for students with his test scores and grades—and be introduced to the community college system if his success is questionable.


17 posted on 03/19/2014 1:41:22 PM PDT by 9YearLurker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Mike Rowe has a lot to say on the subject.

Mike hosted "Dirty Jobs" on the Discovery Channel, and he's a big booster of vocational education. He's set up a foundation to help people get on that path, and make plenty of money at it. There are a lot of jobs in the trades available, and employers are having trouble filling them.

18 posted on 03/19/2014 1:41:27 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Born to Conserve

Ba-dum-bum! A stark and tragic truth to your words. The public schools only have twelve years to teach the youngin’s something they can use to find a job.


19 posted on 03/19/2014 1:42:54 PM PDT by AD from SpringBay (http://jonah2eight.blogspot.com/)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 9 | View Replies]

To: Bob
Heaven forbid!!! Telling a student that he’s not cut out for college will damage his self-esteem which will traumatize him forever.

My oldest son thought I was going to foot his bill for college. He didn't like it when I told him his performance in HS was not worthy of a 4 year college. I suggested he go to community college for two years, get his AA, and then we'd talk again.

The need for that conversation never arose, as he never got his AA. He's doing fine, though, moving up the ladder at the TSA, and doing a good job for them.

20 posted on 03/19/2014 1:44:09 PM PDT by Night Hides Not (For every Ted Cruz we send to DC, I can endure 2-3 "unviable" candidates that beat incumbents.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 8 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

Now the libs want college to be “free.” Combine that with a different set of standards for people according to their membership in an appropriate victim group, and college will have absolutely no value at all.


21 posted on 03/19/2014 1:44:10 PM PDT by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible traitors. Complicit in the destruction of our country.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
I have three nephews.

The youngest said, "%&$# college" and went into the Air Force and is currently having the time of his life stationed in Germany.

My second nephew said "%&$# college", got a plumber's certificate and now runs his own business, supporting a wife and two daughters.

My oldest nephew has a Masters Degree........and no job.

22 posted on 03/19/2014 1:45:11 PM PDT by uglybiker (nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-nuh-BATMAN!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
Other research indicates that low-income students in particular benefit from college, becoming nearly three times more likely to make it into the middle class than their peers

That's solely due to "affirmative action" in both the college and the work force which still prevails today........And one could certainly argue that B. Hussein Obama is a product of that racist and failed philosophy........

23 posted on 03/19/2014 1:47:48 PM PDT by Hot Tabasco (Was Occam's razor made by Gillette?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

“You come to this institution with a head full of mush, and after four years, you leave here with a piece of paper, a $100,000 school loan debt, and a head full of oatmeal.”


24 posted on 03/19/2014 1:50:07 PM PDT by blueunicorn6 ("A crack shot and a good dancer")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
We should give everybody options that will help them succeed.

Whaddya mean "WE"? Before the days when EVERUONE went to college, people found their own opportunities and showed the world what prosperity looked like.

The only thing "WE" (i.e. the government) need to give everybody is the freedom to make their own way in life.

25 posted on 03/19/2014 1:52:33 PM PDT by Maceman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
What if our own hyper-credentialed life experiences and ideologies are blinding us to alternative pathways to the middle class?

"Our own"?

26 posted on 03/19/2014 1:59:46 PM PDT by x
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

HEY DUMBASS! GET SOME SAFETY GLASSES ON!


27 posted on 03/19/2014 2:11:08 PM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need 7+ more ammo. LOTS MORE.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: x

Hahahahahahaha...that jumped out at me too.

People who are “hyper-credentialed” think that putting a whole boatload of hyphenated acronyms after their name shows people how smart they are.


28 posted on 03/19/2014 2:15:31 PM PDT by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: x

“Who you mean by ‘our own’ Kemosabe?”


29 posted on 03/19/2014 2:16:02 PM PDT by rlmorel ("A nation, despicable by its weakness, forfeits even the privilege of being neutral." A. Hamilton)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: Cyber Liberty

Of course, Mike Rowe has a college degree in communications from Towson University.


30 posted on 03/19/2014 2:20:05 PM PDT by dmz
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
College is no longer an education but now is indoctrination.

I went to college right after high school and then dropped out but a few years ago I went back and 80% of the young students were so inept the could hardly write a coherent sentence. And every class had some element of politically correct nonsense from enviromenalism to misogyny. It was so bad.

31 posted on 03/19/2014 2:59:21 PM PDT by virgil283 (When the sun spins, the cross appears, and the skies burn red)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: dmz

Yes, he does. Your point? He’s FOS? Hypocrite?


32 posted on 03/19/2014 3:15:09 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind; ex-snook
Problem is, most BigCorp are like my employer. Do we have positions that do not require a degree? Sure, plenty of 'em, especially for field technicians. Will you ever be promoted? Receive a significant pay raise? Get new bennies? No. Will you be looked down upon by the office peeps? Will you be referred to as "low-rent" and "not suitable for promotion"? Will executives openly discuss replacing "obsoletes" with robots and software and automation in your hearing? Absolutely. I try to get my co-workers and superiors to take a different view, but it's a battle that's long been lost.
I believe that high schools teach the same material to the money rich and the money poor. Colleges should loan good students the necessary money and teach them well or they won't get their money back.
Not a bad idea. Needs to be some accountability on the college side.
33 posted on 03/19/2014 3:21:20 PM PDT by GAFreedom (Freedom rings in GA!)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: GAFreedom

The dirty little secret is the colleges don’t care if they “get their money back.” It wasn’t theirs in the fist place. To them, student loans are just another grant flowing into their pockets.


34 posted on 03/19/2014 3:24:21 PM PDT by Cyber Liberty (H.L. Mencken: "The urge to save humanity is almost always a false front for the urge to rule.")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
We should give everybody options that will help them succeed

"We"? "should"? "everybody"?

Who is "we"? And why should "we" do this for "everybody"?

35 posted on 03/19/2014 3:27:04 PM PDT by Jim Noble (When strong, avoid them. Attack their weaknesses. Emerge to their surprise. H)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind

College entrance USED to depend upon taking certain courses throughout high school - with good grades, and then passing college entrance exams.

You either ‘made’ it or you didn’t!!


36 posted on 03/19/2014 3:34:44 PM PDT by potlatch ("Dream as if you'll live forever...Live as if you'll die today")
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: 9YearLurker
A kid should simply be told the stats for students with his test scores and grades—and be introduced to the community college system if his success is questionable.
If you read the last paragraph of the story, even that is questionable:
Most . . . low-income students who start community college in remedial courses . . . won’t ever get past their remedial courses.
If college started out hard for me - and also for the only two guys who outranked me in high school, who later became college professors - what are the odds against people who start out not even being readers!

37 posted on 03/20/2014 12:44:48 AM PDT by conservatism_IS_compassion ("Liberalism” is a conspiracy against the public by wire-service journalism.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 17 | View Replies]

To: conservatism_IS_compassion

Yeah, we’re graduating far too many kids functioning at the 3rd grade level or less. But college classes run the spectrum from hard to incredibly easy, depending upon school and subject.


38 posted on 03/20/2014 1:48:06 AM PDT by 9YearLurker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 37 | View Replies]

To: SeekAndFind
"Why push students down educational paths that will likely result in them dropping out?'

Because University Admins like to make Big Fat Paychecks from all the suckers who go in debt!

39 posted on 03/20/2014 1:59:39 AM PDT by Mad Dawgg (If you're going to deny my 1st Amendment rights then I must proceed to the 2nd one...)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson