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As others mark World War One centenary, Germans prefer to forget
Reuters ^ | march 19, 2014 | Erik Kirschbaum

Posted on 03/20/2014 6:18:09 AM PDT by C19fan

A simple plaque marks the forsaken spot where the Red Baron was buried in central Berlin but hardly anyone stops to remember the flying ace shot down in 1918. For Germans, the Great War holds so little interest.

The centenary of the outbreak of World War One has caught Germany off guard, while Britain, France, the United States and others mark it with battlefield tours, television programs, exhibitions and plans for ceremonies on the day, in August.

Germans aren't sure how, or even if, they should commemorate a war that cost them 13 percent of their territory, all their colonies, huge reparations and 2.5 million lives. The government is under fire for its inactivity.

"Most Germans don't want to have anything to do with the militaristic past," said Stefan Scheybal, a mason who tends graves at the Invalids' cemetery where Manfred von Richthofen was buried, a plot of land now bisected by a busy cycle path.

(Excerpt) Read more at reuters.com ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: germany; great; war; wwi

1 posted on 03/20/2014 6:18:09 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: C19fan

The most important war in modern history.


2 posted on 03/20/2014 6:20:41 AM PDT by SeeSharp
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To: C19fan

No one’s asking what Austria’s plans are?


3 posted on 03/20/2014 6:21:05 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: SeeSharp

One from which Europe never recovered.


4 posted on 03/20/2014 6:22:32 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: SeeSharp

Agreed. This war delivered the death blow to Western Civilization, which has been a terminal case ever since.


5 posted on 03/20/2014 6:23:59 AM PDT by jtal (Runnin' a World in Need with White Folks' Greed - since 1492)
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To: C19fan

Even to this day we’re dealing with the blowback from WW I and how the borders were redrawn afterward.


6 posted on 03/20/2014 6:25:49 AM PDT by KarlInOhio (Republican amnesty supporters don't care whether their own homes are called mansions or haciendas.)
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To: C19fan
The end of the Great War showed how primitive and unsophisticated the so-called "sophisticated Euros" were. Instead of re-building Germany into a Parliamentary Republic that would be an anti-Bolshevik bulwark against Lenin and Stalin, France and England wanted payback.

France and England's method of peace lasted barely 20 years. The peace of the "unsophisticated" Americans lasted over 60 years.

7 posted on 03/20/2014 6:25:50 AM PDT by MuttTheHoople (Nothing is more savage and brutal than justifiably angry Americans. Don’t believe me? Ask the Germa)
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To: wideawake

What would Austria celebrate? Going from the capital of Central Europe producing geniuses like Mahler, Klint, and Freud to a city that now serves more as a living museum living off the fumes of the past; think of Colonial Williamsburg writ large.


8 posted on 03/20/2014 6:25:54 AM PDT by C19fan
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To: C19fan

Ah yes, the Treaty of Versailles—punishment. That is always such a successful strategy, isn’t it? (rhetorical)


9 posted on 03/20/2014 6:27:15 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: MuttTheHoople
Isn't payback the way so many people go? It's un-Christian but feels good, for a while at least.
10 posted on 03/20/2014 6:28:30 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: C19fan

Wow. Was just watching a movie about the Red Barron the other day. Very interesting chap, apparently. Still a mystery how he died.


11 posted on 03/20/2014 6:28:39 AM PDT by RushIsMyTeddyBear (Great vid by ShorelineMike! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KOZjJk6nbD4&feature=plcp)
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To: C19fan

I guess the Austrians live off the reputation of their delicious pastries.


12 posted on 03/20/2014 6:29:15 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: C19fan
A mere prelude to what they'll be trying to forget when centennial anniversaries of WWII arrive in 25 years.

IMHO, the real problem is that they'll succeed in sweeping it under the rug. Nobody gives a hoot about history anymore...but our modern culture is obsessed with Miley Cyrus and the Kardashians.

13 posted on 03/20/2014 6:32:43 AM PDT by Night Hides Not (For every Ted Cruz we send to DC, I can endure 2-3 "unviable" candidates that beat incumbents.)
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To: C19fan

WW I was the beginning of the end of European culture. The genetic losses of 1914-45 can never be replaced. Migrants from Africa and the Mideast are forever transforming Europe.


14 posted on 03/20/2014 6:33:01 AM PDT by allendale
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To: cloudmountain
Ah yes, the Treaty of Versailles—punishment. That is always such a successful strategy, isn’t it? (rhetorical)

We did the same to Russia, at the end of the Cold War, and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

15 posted on 03/20/2014 6:33:11 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: C19fan; All
"Those who forget the past are doomed to repeat it."

............................................George Santayana

16 posted on 03/20/2014 6:34:31 AM PDT by ken5050 (I fear a world run by adults who were never spanked as kids and got trophies just for participating)
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To: cloudmountain

It isn’t about payback, it’s about winning the war. By rebuilding and re-arming Germany after WW II, we helped turn them into a peaceful Parliamentary Republic (maybe too peaceful...now that we’ve shown them how to live at peace with their neighbors, I wouldn’t mind seeing them show some fight against possible threats from Russia).


17 posted on 03/20/2014 6:38:16 AM PDT by MuttTheHoople (Nothing is more savage and brutal than justifiably angry Americans. Don’t believe me? Ask the Germa)
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To: allendale

When you replace 18 million Jews with 20 million Muslims, expect mayhem to ensue.


18 posted on 03/20/2014 6:39:04 AM PDT by MuttTheHoople (Nothing is more savage and brutal than justifiably angry Americans. Don’t believe me? Ask the Germa)
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To: MuttTheHoople

In fairness, both Britain and France paid a heavy price in men and materials. America’s level of sacrifice didn’t even come close to matching theirs. No wonder they were angry, and their populations could not have brooked to lenient a treaty.

France had also gotten a rough deal out of the 1871 Treaty of Frankfurt, in which they lost Alscace-Lorraine, and their idea was to break Germany so it could never threaten France again. Understandable really, although as we know, things didn’t work out that way. The allies might also have taken a much more punitive attitude towards Germany after WWII (remember that they completely disbanded the German armed forces after that war, which didn’t happen after WWI), but they also faced the threat of Communism from the Soviet Union, so it was particularly important not to drive the Germans into the arms of the Soviets. The Germans of that period were predisposed towards extremist ideologies, and Communism was the other side of the coin to Nazism.


19 posted on 03/20/2014 6:39:14 AM PDT by sinsofsolarempirefan
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To: jtal

Killing 10,000 men a day, every day, for 4+ years will do that.

It curdles the marrow of my bones just reading that.


20 posted on 03/20/2014 6:42:33 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: DuncanWaring

Probably the most touching ode to the calamity of that war, came from Lemmy, of Motorhead......

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IuRxjjcPgOo


21 posted on 03/20/2014 6:46:10 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: MuttTheHoople
I've been to Germany several times these past decades. I loved it.

My husband and I visited Russia in 2008. We BOTH agreed that Russia had a LONG way to go to catch up with the West. They WANT it but but not very much. They are SO used to doing what they want with no consequences. Oh well. Live and learn.

22 posted on 03/20/2014 6:53:34 AM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: C19fan
You make my point for me.

Why would either Germany or Austria commemorate the beginning of their destruction?

Germany is being criticized here in the article, but Austria isn't.

23 posted on 03/20/2014 6:55:13 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: wideawake

I think Hungary probably came out the very worst of the bunch.


24 posted on 03/20/2014 7:03:45 AM PDT by xp38
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To: cloudmountain

I do believe at the end of the Cold War we should have had a “Marshall Plan” for Russia to get them on their feet.

Would have paid huge dividends down the road, and I think even Reagan would have supported the idea. But Clinton and Albright wanted to rub the Russians’ noses in it.

Now the Bear is back.


25 posted on 03/20/2014 7:06:45 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: RushIsMyTeddyBear

Baron von Richthofen is far better known in U.S. & Britain than in today’s Germany. To the Allies, he was the dashing enemy ace of aces, and a worthy opponent celebrated even by his foes. He was also Snoopy’s main adversary in comic & song. He is currently immortalized as a brand of pizza.

The Red Baron met his end when he chased a low flying British fighter plane over enemy lines (Australian). Bad move; every gun on the ground that could shoot was aimed at the brilliant scarlet triplane with Maltese crosses. A single machine gun bullet pierced his chest left to right & his plane pancaked into the ground.

The only remaining mystery is whether Richthofen was killed instantly or lived seconds longer to crash land his plane.


26 posted on 03/20/2014 7:10:51 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: MuttTheHoople
The end of the Great War showed how primitive and unsophisticated the so-called "sophisticated Euros" were. Instead of re-building Germany into a Parliamentary Republic that would be an anti-Bolshevik bulwark against Lenin and Stalin, France and England wanted payback.

France and England's method of peace lasted barely 20 years.

Here's an appropriate song:

Thanks for the Memory--Charlie & His Orchestra (c. 1941)

Thanks for the memory
In every German's mind, when you broke the ties that bind
And dictated a peace called the Treaty of Versailles
How rotten that was!

Thanks for the memory
Of British aims devine, French Negroes on the Rhine,
The food blockade and misery throughout the German Reich
What an injustice that was!

Many's the time that you feasted
And many's the time that we fasted.
For you, it was swell while it lasted.
You did have fun, but harm was done.

So, thanks for the memory.
It gives us strength to fight
For freedom and for right.
It might upset you, England,
That the Germans know how to fight
And hurt you so much.

27 posted on 03/20/2014 7:15:49 AM PDT by Fiji Hill
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To: xp38
The East Germans didn't have a picnic either.
28 posted on 03/20/2014 7:27:44 AM PDT by wideawake
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To: elcid1970

Also known as the golden BB.


29 posted on 03/20/2014 8:01:32 AM PDT by DownInFlames
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To: C19fan

Don’t forget the Franco-Prussian War.

The Frogs were spoiling for a fight for over 50 years after they got the “Atomic Wedgie” from the Krauts and lost Alsace-Lorraine ...

Set the stage for WWI. Treaty of Versailles punitive provisions set the stage for WWII.

Goddamn Frogs ...


30 posted on 03/20/2014 8:04:40 AM PDT by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: SeeSharp

I’m increasingly beginning to see it that way.


31 posted on 03/20/2014 8:10:59 AM PDT by Free Vulcan (Vote Republican! You can vote Democrat when you're dead...)
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To: C19fan

I thought Von Richthofen had a huge mausoleum?


32 posted on 03/20/2014 8:19:03 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: SeeSharp
The most important war in modern history.

And so overwhelmed by the shadow of World War II. There was a time back in the 70s when I sought out WWI veterans to speak to. They were all old men back then, and only one really gave me satisfaction.

33 posted on 03/20/2014 8:20:45 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: wideawake
No one’s asking what Austria’s plans are?

It's Bulgaria's that I want to know about!

34 posted on 03/20/2014 8:22:35 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: Lmo56

Yep, look at any calamity, and usually the French planted the seeds......WWII, Vietnam, Rwanda....


35 posted on 03/20/2014 8:24:05 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator
Ah yes, the Treaty of Versailles—punishment. That is always such a successful strategy, isn’t it? (rhetorical)

We did the same to Russia, at the end of the Cold War, and now the chickens are coming home to roost.

That's funny. I don't recall a Versailles, and most certainly a Nuremberg, after the Cold War. If you ask me the Russians got away with it and a lot of the rulers today are identical to the ones back then.

I don't think Russia has paid anything for its crimes against humanity.

36 posted on 03/20/2014 8:25:57 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: dfwgator

“The day not half over and ten thousand slain,”

And that’s putting it mildly.

Opening day of The Somme (1916) - 20,000 dead by lunchtime.


37 posted on 03/20/2014 8:26:27 AM PDT by DuncanWaring (The Lord uses the good ones; the bad ones use the Lord.)
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To: Zionist Conspirator
I don't think Russia has paid anything for its crimes against humanity.

So if you did make them "pay", what do you think that would accomplish?

38 posted on 03/20/2014 8:26:51 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: MuttTheHoople
It isn’t about payback, it’s about winning the war. By rebuilding and re-arming Germany after WW II, we helped turn them into a peaceful Parliamentary Republic (maybe too peaceful...now that we’ve shown them how to live at peace with their neighbors, I wouldn’t mind seeing them show some fight against possible threats from Russia).

Hmm. Maybe . . . but be careful what you wish for.

39 posted on 03/20/2014 8:27:33 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: dfwgator
I do believe at the end of the Cold War we should have had a “Marshall Plan” for Russia to get them on their feet.

Would have paid huge dividends down the road, and I think even Reagan would have supported the idea. But Clinton and Albright wanted to rub the Russians’ noses in it.

And just when did they do this?

40 posted on 03/20/2014 8:31:32 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: wideawake
The East Germans didn't have a picnic either.

And yet their soldiers wore the jackboots and marched the goose-step.

41 posted on 03/20/2014 8:34:32 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: dfwgator
So if you did make them "pay", what do you think that would accomplish?

I didn't say I wanted to do anything to them. I just said the bastards got off easy for everything they did to the rest of the world for over seventy years.

They still haven't come clean about Raoul Wallenberg or KAL 007 so far as I know. A "we're sorry" would be nice.

42 posted on 03/20/2014 8:38:50 AM PDT by Zionist Conspirator (The Left: speaking power to truth since Shevirat HaKelim.)
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To: C19fan

There is an excellent new book on the causes of WWI - “The Sleepwalkers” by Christopher Clark. Supposed to be the definitive account on the origins of the war.

Gave it to my uncle for Christmas. Can’t wait to read it.


43 posted on 03/20/2014 8:45:13 AM PDT by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: C19fan

It’s important to note that the course of the war had several important variables, which made all the difference in the world.

1. It was the last war of the monarchs. Under the brilliant leadership of Otto Von Bismarck, Germany had unified, and whereas before it was sneered at by Europe as a group of agrarian peasants, it had come together as a power in Europe.

This was not appreciated by the other powers, especially France, lead by the egotistical buffoon Napoleon III, who had been elected president, then arranged a coup so he would be declared Emperor. After foolishly challenging President Grant (and his Union Army) in Mexico, he decided to show the Germans who was boss.

With a little trickery, he was snookered into declaring war and invading Germany with an unprepared army, who met him with a prepared army and quickly deposed him. But then, against the advice of Bismarck, the German Emperor Wilhelm II was persuaded to take a piece of France as punishment, which enraged the French against the Germans.

2) Before the war, half of Europe was making treaties with each other; as was the other half, setting up two competing mutual defense pacts. Then everybody started building battleships like there was no tomorrow.

3) The US was set to be a neutral power, but it had a lot of connections with both Britain and Germany. But Britain had something Germany did not, an undersea cable to the US, which only conveyed the British point of view, as well as a lot of propaganda against the Germans.

This wasn’t helped by German ignorance of the US, especially when they asked Mexico for an alliance against the US (The Zimmermann Telegram), which was intercepted by the British, who let the Americans know.

4) Last but not least was US president Woodrow Wilson, a charmingly progressive combination of ignorance and arrogance, self-importance and racism, and who was surrounded by a dense cabal of like minded Democrats.


44 posted on 03/20/2014 8:47:08 AM PDT by yefragetuwrabrumuy (WoT News: Rantburg.com)
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To: yefragetuwrabrumuy
With a little trickery ...

Yup. The Ems Dispatch. Only the Frogs would declare war because they felt insulted.

45 posted on 03/20/2014 8:54:38 AM PDT by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: MuttTheHoople
The Germans, therefore, are wrong yet again. In war they are wrong and now, even in peace, they are wrong, not doing enough.

It's my guess that whatever the Germans do, it will be too little, not enough or just wrong. :o)

46 posted on 03/20/2014 4:26:34 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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To: dfwgator
I do believe at the end of the Cold War we should have had a “Marshall Plan” for Russia to get them on their feet.
Would have paid huge dividends down the road, and I think even Reagan would have supported the idea. But Clinton and Albright wanted to rub the Russians’ noses in it.
Now the Bear is back.

You might be right.
However, there was no guarantee than the Russians would have WANTED Western help.
Also we do NOT know what their circumstances REALLY were as we NEVER, EVER got the truth (Pravda) from their news media...Pravda.

They WILL do things their own way. They always have...and it's my read that they always will.

You are right about Clinton and Aldim.

The Bear IS back but it won't be the same as it was in the Cold War. There is simply TOO much communication available and the Russian people REALLY want the "stuff" that we have in the West. The Russians CAN'T afford both a war and the "stuff."

That was my read on the Russians when my husband and I went there in 2008. Maybe it's different now.

47 posted on 03/20/2014 4:41:07 PM PDT by cloudmountain
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