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Feminists Outraged Over New Book by ‘Princeton Mom’
thecollegefix.com ^ | 3-13-2014 | Nathan Harden

Posted on 03/22/2014 8:48:53 AM PDT by servo1969

Susan Patton, aka “The Princeton Mom” has finally released her book, Marry Smart, based on the controversial letter she published last year in The Daily Princetonian, which advised young women to focus on finding a husband while in college.

Liberal feminists hate the book. I mean, they just hate it.

Which makes me want to read it, actually.

Anyway, Patton generates so much wrath because she points out one of the big lies behind modern feminism. The lie is this: that to be successful and happy you need to focus on your career and not marriage or children throughout your twenties and early thirties. In other words, the lie is that you can delay, and delay, and delay and still have it all.

Susan Patton has news for you–the biological clock is not a fiction cooked up by the conspiratorial patriarchy. It’s a reality.

In fact, if you are a woman and haven’t started having children by the time you are 35–you are very unlikely to have a successful pregnancy without serious medical intervention–IVF, surrogate pregnancy, etc–and the risk of birth defects increases dramatically as a woman approaches 40.

Those facts often come as quite a surprise to talented, highly-educated women–the kind of women who go to Princeton. They’ve been led to believe that they won’t have to sacrifice anything in the way of their professional careers in order to also be a wife and a mother. Just Lean In a little harder and it can all be yours.

Well, there’s no law that says any young woman should have to want to be a wife or a mother. But if a young woman does want such things, especially, the mother thing, it does require sacrifice on the career front.

Not fair? Well, maybe not. But men aren’t born with wombs–so there you go. And men will never, on average, be as interested in or as willing to do the work of childcare. They just won’t.

It’s called gender difference. It’s real, it’s biological, and it’s not a social construct, regardless of what your freshman year women’s studies professor might have told you.

Patton’s argument, as I understand it, has less to do with the motherhood issue, and more to do with the “wife” issue. She advises young women who want husbands to stop drinking so much and hanging out in bars and stop having sex with men who aren’t committed.

She advises them to treat their hunt for a husband as they would a hunt for a great job–with intention and planning. She advises them to dress well and put on makeup. Close their legs. “If you offer men sex without commitment, you eliminate the incentive for them to commit,” she says, plainly.

Sound old fashioned to you? If so, you may be well on your way to being single, middle-aged, and childless–no matter how smart or attractive, or worthy you are. Has nothing to do with those things. The fact is, the average man these days isn’t exactly rushing into marriage. The average age of first marriage for both sexes continues to climb every year. Meanwhile, the pool of marriageable men diminishes as a woman ages. It’s just simple math. So if a smart young woman wants to get married–why wouldn’t Patton’s advice make sense?

The fact that Patton’s advice doesn’t mesh with the feminist narratives of put-your-career-first and you-don’t-need-a-husband, doesn’t make her advice wrong for those women to whom marriage is a goal and top priority.

In truth, young men would do well to heed most of her advice as well–except for the part about wearing makeup.

It’s all a matter of what you want. No one says you have to want marriage. But if you are a young woman and you do want to get married, then you ignore her advice at your own peril.


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Education; Religion; Society
KEYWORDS: feminist; marriage; patton; princeton
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1 posted on 03/22/2014 8:48:53 AM PDT by servo1969
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To: servo1969
Feminists Outraged

Redundant - See 'Redundant'

2 posted on 03/22/2014 8:49:53 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: servo1969

Feminists need to deal with it.


3 posted on 03/22/2014 8:52:33 AM PDT by skeeter
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To: servo1969

Marriage, family, children. All anathema to leftists.


4 posted on 03/22/2014 8:53:35 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: servo1969

That Kids by 35 thing just isn’t true. I know plenty of woman who had kids in their late 30s and early 40s with no issues.


5 posted on 03/22/2014 8:56:52 AM PDT by Borges
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To: Responsibility2nd

There offended because as feminists they believe that women don’t need a man. They just need big government to take from everybody else’s man and give it to them.


6 posted on 03/22/2014 8:57:17 AM PDT by No Socialist
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To: skeeter

It’s remarkable what “..... Envy” has degenerated into...


7 posted on 03/22/2014 8:57:24 AM PDT by pfony1 (Add just 6 GOP Senators and we "bury" Harry)
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To: servo1969


8 posted on 03/22/2014 8:58:08 AM PDT by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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To: servo1969
Most feminists just run out to the local Lawyer hangout for a one night stand
and carefully jot down the guys name for that 18-year payment schedule.
And if he fights her over custody she just makes the kid carry a
Pink pony backpack to school and feminizes the boy.
9 posted on 03/22/2014 8:58:41 AM PDT by MaxMax (Pay Attention and you'll be pissed off too! FIRE BOEHNER, NOW!)
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To: servo1969

“Feminism was established so as to allow unattractive women access to the mainstream of society” - Rush Limbaugh Undeniable Truth of Life #24


10 posted on 03/22/2014 9:00:00 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: servo1969

“The lie is this: that to be successful and happy you need to focus on your career and not marriage or children throughout your twenties and early thirties.”

Feminists believe that Mad Med is real; that women were slaving away at home while men were off having a big party in their careers. That big party is always just one more glass ceiling away. Nobody bothered to tell the girls that work quite often sucks. Careers are not always exciting or rewarding like on television.


11 posted on 03/22/2014 9:02:05 AM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: cdcdawg

Mad Men, not Med. Stupid fingers.


12 posted on 03/22/2014 9:04:03 AM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: servo1969

The other half of the equation I rarely see - young men need to be taught responsibility.

Even at my children’s “good” suburban high school, girls are often “bitchez,” and no one is teaching boys the meaning of respect or self-control. America’s ghettoized culture is allowed to flood society, such that everyone is forced to swim in it.


13 posted on 03/22/2014 9:04:47 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: Borges

It most certainly is true, statistically speaking.


14 posted on 03/22/2014 9:04:51 AM PDT by workerbee (The President of the United States is DOMESTIC ENEMY #1!)
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To: servo1969
But if a young woman does want such things, especially, the mother thing, it does require sacrifice on the career front.

If an individual wants a certain effect,it is his or her responsibility to discover and enact the necessary cause.Substituting wishing and waiting for planning and doing is irrational.

15 posted on 03/22/2014 9:08:05 AM PDT by mjp ((pro-{God, reality, reason, egoism, individualism, natural rights, limited government, capitalism}))
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To: Borges

I’m very happy for them. They beat the odds.


16 posted on 03/22/2014 9:09:15 AM PDT by servo1969
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To: JoeProBono; dfwgator

Most of the women I knew in college in the late 70s were working on their MRS degrees. Nothing wrong with that. They were nice girls for the most part and I enjoyed their company.

The women in your photo were not admitted into that program. They were also not invited to any of our social gatherings.

We cheerfully disregarded Limbaugh’s essential truth, and gave them no access.


17 posted on 03/22/2014 9:19:52 AM PDT by henkster (I don't like bossy women telling me what words I can't use.)
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To: skeeter
Feminists need to deal with it.

That's going to be a problem, since the point of feminism is to NOT deal with it, while pretending to be the only one who's dealing with it.

18 posted on 03/22/2014 9:23:42 AM PDT by Talisker (One who commands, must obey.)
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To: servo1969

First, one needs to define “success” in their own mind. What does it look like? What does it feel like? Specifically...how do you, as an individual define it...and recognize it when it’s achieved.

Once you have done that, without external input, can you really be happy.

If no one else can see that, who cares?


19 posted on 03/22/2014 9:24:42 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: Borges

Personal anecdote isn’t evidence.

There are ample medical and historical data showing the drop in female fertility in relation to age. It is a biological reality that should be acknowledged rather than ignored or swept under the rug with happy talk.


20 posted on 03/22/2014 9:25:19 AM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: henkster

My first wife burned her bra while I was serving overseas. She was almost ahead of her time.


21 posted on 03/22/2014 9:27:19 AM PDT by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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To: JoeProBono

Did you recommend that she take an ironing class? I mean, you’d want her skills to improve before she got to your shirts.


22 posted on 03/22/2014 9:33:08 AM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: PGR88; servo1969
The other half of the equation I rarely see - young men need to be taught responsibility.

Even at my children’s “good” suburban high school, girls are often “bitchez,” and no one is teaching boys the meaning of respect or self-control. America’s ghettoized culture is allowed to flood society, such that everyone is forced to swim in it.

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

Women's behavior is affected by men's behavior and vice versa -- they're two sides of the same coin.

It amazes me to see posts here celebrating male sexual behavior as completely consequence-free.

The preparation for marriage actually (in my opinion) should start right before the teens. A girl at age twelve or thirteen should start being made aware of marriage and homemaking in addition to career concerns. Young people should start getting together in chaperoned social situations (whatever happened to cotillion?) such as dances, and wholesome behavior should be encouraged and bad behavior discouraged and sanctioned.

I bet the boys will secretly feel relief to be allowed to act (be given permission to act) like gentlemen.

23 posted on 03/22/2014 9:35:21 AM PDT by thecodont
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To: servo1969

If the male birth control pill ever arrives feminism will be in even more trouble. Men will never father children unless they absolutely desire it.


24 posted on 03/22/2014 9:37:54 AM PDT by struggle
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To: ClearCase_guy

Jane Fonda was/is her idol.


25 posted on 03/22/2014 9:38:24 AM PDT by JoeProBono (SOME IMAGES MAY BE DISTURBING VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED;-{)
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To: PGR88

Respect is something earned not given. Given that the girl fashion of the day is the slut look, can you blame the guys to refer to them as bitches? Add to that Miley Cyrus and twerking and bitch becomes an understatement.


26 posted on 03/22/2014 9:42:59 AM PDT by aquila48 (tota)
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To: Borges

I don’t know about birth defects, etc. being more likely the older mothers get, however, I’ve heard that fertility declines in both men and women as they age.

So, it seems that women trying to get pregnant after 35 could have more problems getting pregnant than they would when they were in their 20s.

This brings up a point, that, for people going for professional careers, they have to be willing to work hard, work late, etc. in their 20s, to build the foundation for that career. And that is difficult to do, if you are a mother at that age, with small children at home.


27 posted on 03/22/2014 9:43:19 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego (as)
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To: struggle
Men will never father children unless they absolutely desire it.

They can reduce those chances to near zero by using a condom with spermicide.

For some reason they don't.

Possibly because they have bought the lie that all women take birth control pills (they don't) and that if there is a slip she will just get an abortion (not always).

28 posted on 03/22/2014 9:45:33 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: struggle

Man, what would that be like?
Imagine young women having to actually convince young men to get them pregnant. Not have sex but get them pregnant. Their number one tool would be seriously weakened. They’d have to get men to actually love them after the sex was over. For a lot of women that would be close to impossible with the men they have to choose from today. Feminism has taught them to place no value on marriage and children. Women would seriously have to change their game then.


29 posted on 03/22/2014 9:46:14 AM PDT by servo1969
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear; struggle
Men will never father children unless they absolutely desire it.

They can reduce those chances to near zero by using a condom with spermicide.

For some reason they don't.

Possibly because they have bought the lie that all women take birth control pills (they don't) and that if there is a slip she will just get an abortion (not always).

Where do men get the idea that all women are on the Pill and all will be willing to kill the baby if the Pill doesn't work?

I think that men don't use the condom/spermicide combination because "it ruins the moment" (in the words of some) and some of these men secretly do want to have a child, so don't want to use prophylactic measures.

30 posted on 03/22/2014 9:52:39 AM PDT by thecodont
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To: thecodont
Where do men get the idea that all women are on the Pill and all will be willing to kill the baby if the Pill doesn't work?

From other men. Mostly gay men.

I am of the opinion that men have a secret desire to father children. They may not want to raise them or pay for them but they want to sire them. It is like sleeping with every woman you can, it makes you "a real man".

Most of them would not know a real man if he walked up and punched them.

31 posted on 03/22/2014 9:58:12 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: Harmless Teddy Bear
I am of the opinion that men have a secret desire to father children.

That's not a bug -- that's a feature. :-)

They may not want to raise them or pay for them but they want to sire them. It is like sleeping with every woman you can, it makes you "a real man".

Most of them would not know a real man if he walked up and punched them.

Real men have a sense of honor, responsibility, self-sacrifice and self-control.

32 posted on 03/22/2014 10:02:29 AM PDT by thecodont
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To: servo1969

Could you also imagine the anger of a woman that got to the point of getting her pregnant only to find out he’s still taking the pill to ensure she’s worth the investment? Perhaps this is why the male pill is so slow in coming, lol


33 posted on 03/22/2014 10:05:28 AM PDT by struggle
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To: thecodont
That's not a bug -- that's a feature. :-)

Oh, I agree. But unless you are a multimillionaire who wants an heir for your empire most guys will not admit they want to father kids.

Kids are something WOMEN want. At least that is what they tell themselves.

Real men have a sense of honor, responsibility, self-sacrifice and self-control.

Yes. It is like being a real lady not just a female. It takes work. And all of that work is internal so you get no praise or kudos from the people around you like you would if you worked out and got nice abs or a makeover.

The only person who will really know how much went into making you into a real man or lady is you.

34 posted on 03/22/2014 10:09:53 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: Borges
That Kids by 35 thing just isn’t true. I know plenty of woman who had kids in their late 30s and early 40s with no issues.

The risks are higher, and success rate lower, for a 40 year old than for a 20 year old.

35 posted on 03/22/2014 10:24:03 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: aquila48
Respect is something earned not given. Given that the girl fashion of the day is the slut look, can you blame the guys to refer to them as bitches? Add to that Miley Cyrus and twerking and bitch becomes an understatement.

I disagree entirely. Your statement is basically the bigotry of low expectations. I think if either gender changed their behavior, the other gender would respond by changing behavior as well.

The problem is both sides demanding the other side change first. As always, it will require strong individuals to change first and become the cutting (and often bleeding) edge of a new trend toward virtue and there are many vested interests that will immediately tear them apart.

36 posted on 03/22/2014 10:30:39 AM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Valpal1

Since you must be one of those strong individuals, I’m sure you have sent a letter to Miley Cyrus telling her how much you admire and respect her twerking.

Can you please send me a copy of that letter so I know how to word mine?


37 posted on 03/22/2014 10:37:01 AM PDT by aquila48 (tota)
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To: Valpal1


38 posted on 03/22/2014 10:38:07 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: servo1969

It’s already started.

Man who fathered 98 kids offers free sex service
http://nypost.com/2014/03/21/man-who-fathered-98-kids-offers-free-sex-service/?utm_campaign=SocialFlow&utm_source=NYPTwitter&utm_medium=SocialFlow


39 posted on 03/22/2014 10:42:29 AM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: aquila48

As always, these things are relational and cannot be done at a distance. I’m sure Miss Cyrus has no interest in the opinions of strangers who do not buy her products.

The people who surround her are most certainly telling her the opposite of any friendly advice letter that I could write and that is to whom she will listen.

But I appreciate your confidence in my super powers.


40 posted on 03/22/2014 10:50:16 AM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Borges

Anecdotal evidence. Just because you know some people doesn’t mean much.

And she said if a woman waits to have her FIRST child at 35 or older. It’s easier to have children at 35 or older if the mother already gave birth before that.


41 posted on 03/22/2014 10:51:39 AM PDT by little jeremiah (Courage is not simply one of the virtues, but the form of every virtue at the testing point. CSLewis)
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To: Valpal1

“But I appreciate your confidence in my super powers.”

In your previous post, you alluded to that. :)

By the way, are you aware that Sinead O’Connor (who’s has proven to be a strong, principled person) has in fact sent several letters to Cyrus stating that she would “expect” more of her. So far the “demand of higher expectations” therapy hasn’t worked.

https://www.facebook.com/sineadoconnor/posts/600729603299365

Regarding your diagnosis of the problem - i.e. that young girls acting like slus and boys calling them on it is due to “the bigotry of low expectation” totally lost me.

Can you elaborate - it sounds like psycho babble.


42 posted on 03/22/2014 11:18:01 AM PDT by aquila48 (tota)
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To: aquila48

http://www.rushlimbaugh.com/daily/2013/08/05/the_soft_bigotry_of_low_expectations

The term was originally coined by Bush speechwriter Michael Gerson in regards to affirmative action.

If you like Christ, He alluded to the same concept in James 4:2-3, “you have not not because you ask not”. Mind you, it’s way more complex than that, so don’t go wandering off into prosperity theology.

But interpersonal expectations can generate behavior. Men can treat women with respect irrespective of dress or uncouth behavior and ask them to wear more around them and often get positive results. Women can behave and dress more respectfully around uncouth men and expect and demand more chivalrous behavior. It’s not 100%, but it is surprisingly effective at the basic interpersonal level.

People will often be their better selves when you are also being your better self. There are many sayings for the concept. The golden rule comes to mind, or that real character is how you treat others when they can do nothing for you.

So your comment that girls in slutwear deserve no respect is a form of bigotry based on your dislike and lack of respect for them. But perhaps if men treated them with respect and forbearance regarding their dress, perhaps they might begin to respect themselves and dress better.

Sadly, most men prefer women to act and dress like sluts so they can have irresponsible uncommitted sex with them, and women have no trouble meeting those low expectations.

It doesn’t really matter which side changes first, in the great dance, if one leads, the other will follow.


43 posted on 03/22/2014 12:18:30 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: Borges

I seem to remember a study a while back that concluded that when a single woman reaches age 35, she has a higher probability of being killed by terrorists than getting married.


44 posted on 03/22/2014 2:44:17 PM PDT by Mack the knife
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To: Borges

I would like to see a study that compares pregnancy results for women who remain childless into their late 30s/early 40s and use birth control and/or have had abortions and those who have been celibate and not used any birth control. I wander if such factors may have a greater effect than just age.


45 posted on 03/22/2014 4:44:05 PM PDT by hout8475
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To: hout8475
A 1957 Study of Fertility Rate by Age in Women:

The study was on a large population that never used birth control. The investigators measured the relationship between the age of the female partner and fertility. Infertility rates are now higher in the general population than for the population in this study from the 1950s.

This study found:

By age 30, 7% of couples were infertile
By age 35, 11% of couples were infertile
By age 40, 33% of couples were infertile
At age 45, 87% of couples were infertile

Reference: Tietze C: Reproductive span and rate of conception among Hutterite women. Fertility and Sterility 1957;8:89-97.

http://www.advancedfertility.com/age.htm

I don't think birth control is a direct contributor to infertility, but it is an indirect contributor in that it is a factor in multiple sex partners which can lead to both STD's and abortions which have a known negative effect on fertility.

(p.s. I don't think you meant to use the word celibate in your comparative question since celibate people have a 0% fertility rate which moots any comparison as all non-celibate women would have higher fertility rates than celibates regardless of lifestyle. Perhaps you meant monogamous?)

46 posted on 03/22/2014 8:41:33 PM PDT by Valpal1 (If the police can t solve a problem with violence, they ll find a way to fix it with brute force)
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To: PGR88

“e - young men need to be taught responsibility.”

Yeah; they need to learn from Travis Alexander that these days a good romp and dismissal does not mean that the woman is going to just nonchalantly walk away on orders.

They also need to learn that if they want to know decent women, they need to stop sleeping with everything that walks and stop trying to get every single woman in the world into bed.


47 posted on 03/22/2014 9:41:11 PM PDT by CorporateStepsister (I am NOT going to force a man to make my dreams come true)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

to me, as I’ve learned, being secure financially is a must and thing is that young men are showing themselves to be increasingly unreliable. They might enjoy being married for a while, but the time sometimes comes when they might realize that it ‘just doesn’t work’ and then they bail out. So the woman is on her own with no job skills and a kid and struggles.

Or, the woman in the marriage marries a man to escape and then leaves him for a richer man in the future. People in their twenties are too volatile and I’ve seen too much in mine to want to marry before I have my own security.


48 posted on 03/22/2014 10:00:03 PM PDT by CorporateStepsister (I am NOT going to force a man to make my dreams come true)
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To: mjp

Truth be told, women need to learn that the men are the ones who have to be in agreement to get married. Short of genuine blackmail, if the man doesn’t propose, there won’t be a marriage.

This is why I am a “Corporate Stepsister,” I intend on not just sitting around doing nothing waiting for an invitation.


49 posted on 03/22/2014 10:07:03 PM PDT by CorporateStepsister (I am NOT going to force a man to make my dreams come true)
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To: AnAmericanMother

You are pinged to this thread solely by virtue of academic connections, not on account of substantive content. No comment is hereby solicited.


50 posted on 03/22/2014 10:15:44 PM PDT by aposiopetic
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