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A new way to gauge the worth of college debt, starting salary
Chicago Tribune ^ | 03/17/2014 | By Steve Rosen

Posted on 03/23/2014 4:35:07 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

Here's a typical college scenario: Your daughter's dream job is to be an elementary school teacher and reading specialist. Yet she'll need to dive deep into debt to pursue her undergraduate degree, and borrow more if continuing to grad school.

She's worried -- rightfully -- about her financial future, and she's looking for answers.

How much debt might she be saddled with? How much will her college degree translate into salary once she lands a job? And what budget-squeezing sacrifices might be necessary to repay the swath of loans?

Those types of questions are on the minds of countless college students. And with student loan debt now over the $1 trillion mark, there's a greater urgency for answers and successful outcomes.

A new online service called GradSense connects those costs and benefits questions with helpful data and financial planning advice.

(Excerpt) Read more at chicagotribune.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Education; Society
KEYWORDS: college; collegetuition; debt; india; offshoring; salary; tuition; workvisas

1 posted on 03/23/2014 4:35:07 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Starting salary...but minus the cost of the school.


2 posted on 03/23/2014 4:36:06 PM PDT by CodeToad (Keeping whites from talking about blacks is verbal segregation!)
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To: SeekAndFind
Common Core teaches us that it is RACIST to apply cost/benefit analysis to a college education.

What would happen to all those Liberal college professors if unqualified people stopped going to college just because it didn't make economic sense?

3 posted on 03/23/2014 4:45:18 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.")
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To: SeekAndFind

A girl from Duke does pornography to makes ends meet. And she says that it’s Duke’s fault that she does that, because they didn’t offer enough financial aid.

Seriously, families need to have hard discussions about this subject. There should be discussions about attending state universities vs. private colleges. There should be discussions about what they want to major in, and what the job prospects for those majors are.

For example, there is little demand for women’s studies majors in the job market. Studying women may be fascinating in some way, but, it won’t help you get a job. Same is true of the various ethnic studies programs.


4 posted on 03/23/2014 4:46:27 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego (as)
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To: SeekAndFind

My estimate is $100 per degree.


5 posted on 03/23/2014 4:46:47 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
A girl from Duke does pornography to makes ends meet. And she says that it’s Duke’s fault that she does that, because they didn’t offer enough financial aid.

Guilty or not?

6 posted on 03/23/2014 4:48:53 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (question is this)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

She also claims Vanderbilt offered her a full scholarship but she just had to go to Duke after seeing how beautiful the campus was.


7 posted on 03/23/2014 4:49:45 PM PDT by GrootheWanderer
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To: Dilbert San Diego

its also true for wildlife studies, forestry,marine biology,botany,recreational therapist (whatever that is) etc....yet tons of men think they’re going to be the next Yellowstone National Park Ranger.....those kinds of jobs are hard to come by and often these type grads work temporary jobs year after year until a full time job comes up....


8 posted on 03/23/2014 4:49:53 PM PDT by cherry
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To: SeekAndFind

My to kids did OK. Of course that was 20 years ago and they went to Catholic schools and had a dad who was a genius and a mom who was a saint... They both make just short of $200K a year.

However, I think it had little to do with the college they went to...


9 posted on 03/23/2014 4:50:35 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

That makes too much sense.


10 posted on 03/23/2014 5:06:00 PM PDT by Puppage (You may disagree with what I have to say, but I shall defend to your death my right to say it)
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To: babygene; xsmommy

8<)


11 posted on 03/23/2014 5:08:41 PM PDT by Robert A. Cook, PE (I can only donate monthly, but socialists' ABBCNNBCBS continue to lie every day!)
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To: GrootheWanderer

Just stupid.


12 posted on 03/23/2014 5:13:02 PM PDT by Blood of Tyrants (Haven't you lost enough freedoms? Support an end to the WOD now.)
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To: St_Thomas_Aquinas

“Next, the calculator shows expected salary levels — starting, middle and expert pay grades. A K-12 teacher in a non-science or math field could earn in a range of $12,840 on the low end to $64,200 on the high end, with the median salary of $42,800. That’s based on 2010 data of students who graduated with a bachelor’s degree and who worked full-time or part-time, according to GradSense.”
////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
The low end is less than a forty hour a week, year around job at the federal minimum wage. The median adjusted for REAL inflation is less than most 22 year olds with a high school education earned on a forty hour a week job in 1965. The high end figure is no more and probably less when adjusted for REAL inflation than what I was earning at age 23 with a high school diploma and a Navy electronics certificate. Recent studies have said that a recent bachelor in liberal arts is worth LESS in the job market than a public high school diploma was worth in the sixties. I think you are being generous.
I suspect that any 17 year old who wants to make a real effort could take a minimum wage job, live with his parents for a couple more years and go to tech school and be far better off. I used to really like George Burns but I would HATE to be 18 again in the current situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3c-WBn5cCg


13 posted on 03/23/2014 5:19:12 PM PDT by RipSawyer
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To: E. Pluribus Unum
“What would happen to all those Liberal college professors if unqualified people stopped going to college just because it didn't make economic sense? “

Actually, more to the point (from my perspective) is “what would happen if we instituted a national ‘qualifications’ exam for most college majors, and moved to more of an online education system”. For many things, Europe has had these types of exams. You take them when you're ready, and you have to pass to be given credit for training and competency in that field.

This would: 1) Make education much cheaper and accessible; 2) Diminish the automatic acceptance of the meaning of a degree from any institution (it wouldn't matter if you went to Harvard etc.; only that you showed competency when tested; 3) Allow people who can't afford to go to school without simultaneously having a job to work online at a pace that matches their available time; 4) allow people to get real world job experience while getting an education; 5) force universities to compete in a much more real world. Etc....

I know some people don't do well on standardized tests, but we have the technology to have very diversified testing, with interactive problem solving etc. For so much of university education it doesn't matter where you are. You may be lectured by graduate students or teaching assistants, the professor might be a marginal educator and have their position on the basis of grants they've gotten, or their publications. Much of what you learn during the years you spend at a university is very much independent of the time you spend in a classroom.

14 posted on 03/23/2014 5:21:22 PM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: Dilbert San Diego

To.really make a Women’s Studies degree pay off, you need to also minor in a field that’s in big demand, like Sub-Saharan Homoerotic Literature and Dance. The two are an unbeatable combination. :=)


15 posted on 03/23/2014 5:21:43 PM PDT by Bob
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To: SeekAndFind

If families start looking at this, maybe they’ll think twice about sending their kids to expensive colleges, if the major won’t recoup the cost of it.
If parents tell kids they aren’t going to pay for college, but the kids need to get loans, that THEY have to pay back, the kids will start looking closer to home, think about a couple of years of Community College, or at least work hard for scholarships.


16 posted on 03/23/2014 5:24:52 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: GrootheWanderer
She also claims Vanderbilt offered her a full scholarship but she just had to go to Duke after seeing how beautiful the campus was.

It's her own damn fault, then, that she's in debt.

17 posted on 03/23/2014 5:26:02 PM PDT by SuziQ
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To: SuziQ

There is no way to know. Starting salary is starting salary. It is not a reflection on any thing except begining. To extrapolate lineraly is stupid


18 posted on 03/23/2014 5:32:36 PM PDT by bert ((K.E. N.P. N.C. +12 ..... History is a process, not an event)
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To: Bob
and i bet you thought you were kidding...

19 posted on 03/23/2014 5:44:29 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: pieceofthepuzzle
I know some people don't do well on standardized tests...

Mainly those are people who can't read.

20 posted on 03/23/2014 5:49:26 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.")
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To: bert
Starting salary is starting salary. It is not a reflection on any thing except begining. To extrapolate lineraly is stupid

True, but you have to start somewhere. It's possible that in the example, one could become a teacher, then quickly rise up the administration ladder. Or, they could start in teaching, and write a successful book on education, or develop an educational software tool. Those are all possibilities of having one's salary increase, but you have to have a starting point.

It's just like buying and mortgaging a house loan. The bank might not know what you may earn 10 years from now--it may be much, much more that you earn today. But they will offer you a loan at today's salary.

21 posted on 03/23/2014 5:53:01 PM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: Lou L

Depends on the career. Nurses start high but salaries do not grow much at all.

Lawyers often start low and grow tremendously.


22 posted on 03/23/2014 5:59:44 PM PDT by Chickensoup (Leftist totalitarian fascism is on the move.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Error in the first sentence. It says that your daughter will have to go into debt for college.

Uh, no. She will have to serve tables at Los Amigos and change adult diapers at Parkway Care Center until she can pay her way through.

It requires a change in thinking about debt; particularly college debt.


23 posted on 03/23/2014 6:17:19 PM PDT by lurk
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To: SeekAndFind

As someone said on her phony Facebook, her nose is bigger than her knockers.


24 posted on 03/23/2014 6:25:48 PM PDT by Defiant (Let the Tea Party win, and we will declare peace on the American people and go home.)
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To: GrootheWanderer

My daughter noticed a beautiful private college campus we drove past and asked what it was. I said it was a school, a college. She saw it, was drawn toward it, and asked if she could go there. I said I’d have to see how much it cost.
I pulled up the websites for that private school and a local state university with a good reputation. I totalled up the numbers and explained that 12-18 months at that college equaled four years at the public college. If she went to that college, she’d get no better of an education, but I’d blow through the money for all the kids to send her to THAT school. Which I could not in conscience do.
We ran through the numbers for living at home, living on campus, everything for both schools. To my relief, she came to the same conclusion - it costs too much to go to private.
Later I found out how few of her friends have ever had conversations like this. The kids are allowed to go on tours, fall in love with an atmosphere, and parents get hit by a star struck kid advocating for an experience without any regard for a price tag.


25 posted on 03/23/2014 7:00:35 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: SeekAndFind

“Those types of questions are on the minds of countless college students.”

WRONG!!! Were that the case, most would not spend $100k for a teaching job, or a history degree, etc. The only way it makes sense is that mommy and daddy foot a good chunk, if not all, of the bill. That is of little risk/liability to junior.


26 posted on 03/23/2014 7:06:08 PM PDT by SgtHooper (If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.)
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To: SeekAndFind

I think she did the entire basketball team before yesterday’s game.


27 posted on 03/23/2014 7:07:04 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: bert

“There is no way to know.”

Nonsense. There is a ton of data that accurately indicate the starting salaries in most disciplines and in different geographical regions.


28 posted on 03/23/2014 7:09:42 PM PDT by SgtHooper (If at first you don't succeed, skydiving is not for you.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

There are also those who feel very pressured and freeze during testing.


29 posted on 03/23/2014 7:31:43 PM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: SeekAndFind
How about college cost/major vs. job title:

Such as:

$100K/Engineering ... Design Engineer

or:

$100K/Middle Peruvian Studies ... Barista

30 posted on 03/23/2014 7:34:13 PM PDT by Lmo56 (If ya wanna run with the big dawgs - ya gotta learn to piss in the tall grass ...)
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To: pieceofthepuzzle
Let's just give everybody As then.

It's the only fair thing to do.

31 posted on 03/23/2014 7:37:12 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.")
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To: Lmo56
$100K/Middle Peruvian Studies ... Barista

maybe a bullsh!t college degree is a job qualification requirement

God forbid they hire a kid right out of high school, they wouldn't be pretentious enough...

32 posted on 03/23/2014 7:41:19 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: SeekAndFind

Let’s apply tuition debt, towards institutional success in education. Currently it is a slavery caste system, by which- a social/political inductive mindset has been promoted. How about a critical thinking application/testing; where actual independent thought is recognized as worthy of a degree of education? Nah, that would be backwards/backwoods thinking- according to the last 60 yrs. of US Govt. edumacation.


33 posted on 03/23/2014 7:56:19 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: SeekAndFind

I know a girl who went to school for 8 years to earn her PhD in History. She now works as a tour guide at the state historical society and she considers herself lucky to have found that job.


34 posted on 03/23/2014 8:35:48 PM PDT by MNnice
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To: SeekAndFind

Bump for later - our nephew gets the news this Thursday online from the seven Ivies he’s applied to - we’re torn as to which will be worse - he gets turned down by them all or gets accepted by at least one - very probable - and has to figure our how to come up with the 80k per year it will cost to attend.....


35 posted on 03/23/2014 9:16:11 PM PDT by Intolerant in NJ
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To: Dilbert San Diego
of course it's going back 30 years, or more, but even at that time, guidance counselors who helped plan a career/course path, had charts of occupations, number of annual job opportunities,starting and median salaries, I recall it was a topic of discussion. Do colleges not have person to person counseling?

Or how about the old-fashioned way of getting the minimum degree to work in the field, then continue schooling part-time while working, accomplishing degrees as promotions come up and gaining experience all the while, instead of going in entry-level with a doctorate and half a million in tuition debt, largely from financing living expenses?

36 posted on 03/23/2014 10:06:38 PM PDT by blueplum
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To: blueplum

“Do colleges not have person to person counseling? “

Not really; I ended up going to an counselor and the idiot kept mentioning graduate school while I was trying to find out how to get an education centered on virology.

“how about the old-fashioned way of getting the minimum degree to work in the field, then continue schooling part-time while working, accomplishing degrees as promotions come up and gaining experience all the while”

Most young adults want to extend their high school years. They want to have FUN and ‘find themselves’ and get drunk on a regular basis and rut like animals in heat. The fools didn’t realize that they should have gotten all that out of their system when they were in high school.

As for work, they want the degree to get them a position and income, like a pampered aristocrat seeking favor from the king at a royal court. Actual work is for ‘peasants’ that are now being imported by the millions.


37 posted on 03/24/2014 12:32:52 AM PDT by CorporateStepsister (I am NOT going to force a man to make my dreams come true)
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To: GrootheWanderer

What a fool and go figure, this is where fools end up.


38 posted on 03/24/2014 12:33:16 AM PDT by CorporateStepsister (I am NOT going to force a man to make my dreams come true)
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To: Lmo56

The ones that end up as Baristas like to put on airs of being able to avoid actual work. Like trustafarians minus the trust fund.


39 posted on 03/24/2014 12:33:56 AM PDT by CorporateStepsister (I am NOT going to force a man to make my dreams come true)
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To: Chode

In today’s job market, I don’t see the incentive for hiring a kid out of high school - even as a coffee server. When you have 50 resumes come in the door, with 25 (or 10) of them from college grads that live in the area and need a job - at least the grad has shown SOME ambition to at least graduate. And may be more likely to show up on time and not call in sick all the time. Makes it a LOT tougher on the high school graduates that are probably just as capable when they are up against college grads at every turn.


40 posted on 03/24/2014 12:40:53 AM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“Let’s just give everybody As then.”

What I proposed has nothing to do with that. It’s just the opposite. With competency testing, if you don’t know it, you don’t get credit for knowing it. You graduated from Harvard, but can’t pass the competency test - you don’t get credit for a degree in that area.


41 posted on 03/24/2014 2:46:48 AM PDT by pieceofthepuzzle
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To: 21twelve
In today’s job market, I don’t see the incentive for hiring a kid out of high school - even as a coffee server...

Oh, I do. There's no need to shovel through four years of 'higher education.'

42 posted on 03/24/2014 6:23:37 AM PDT by gogeo (If you are Tea Party, the Republican Party does not want you.)
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To: Chickensoup
Depends on the career. Nurses start high but salaries do not grow much at all.

Your comments have nothing to do with my point, nor the point of this article. It's as though you offered them just to counter me...

The point of the article was that they were creating a tool that would help prospective students understand what they might make in a typical job, with a degree in a particular field. Yes, there are many permutations of how this might occur, but the bottom line is that some starting point of salary must be assumed.

In fact, if I were making the tool, I'd have a variable that allowed the would-be student to select a career path. it might have different trajectories, such as slacker, typical, and ambitious, representing how the student might achieve different levels.

43 posted on 03/24/2014 6:56:27 AM PDT by Lou L (Health "insurance" is NOT the same as health "care")
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To: 21twelve
very true
44 posted on 03/24/2014 7:29:18 AM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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