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Anti-Science: Those Who Wish to Debate Climate Threatened with Death or Jail
zerohedge ^ | 03/23/2014 - 19:19 | Posted by : George Washington ( User Nmare?)

Posted on 03/23/2014 7:37:53 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach

Preface:  The scientific method requires allowing a free-for-all of hypotheses, which then rise or fall based upon the results of actual experiments.  In other words, science means that you throw out theories - no matter how good they look on paper - that are disproven by experimental results, and adopt those confirmed by the results. [Economics is supposed to do that, too ... but hasn't.]

For example, putting Galileo to death because he didn’t agree with the “accepted” consensus that the Sun revolved around the Earth was not a great example of the scientific method. Instead of conducting experiments to see whether the Earth or Sun were the center of the Solar System, those with the prevailing view simply silenced the dissenter.

Anyone who has studied the history of science knows that many theories that were universally accepted and “known” to be true turned out to be false.   See these examples from the Houston Chronicle and the Guardian.

 

Noam Chomsky said years ago that he would submit to fascism if it would help combat global warming:

Suppose it was discovered tomorrow that the greenhouse effects has been way understimated, and that the catastrophic effects are actually going to set in 10 years from now, and not 100 years from now or something. Well, given the state of the popular movements we have today, we’d probably have a fascist takeover-with everybody agreeing to it, because that would be the only method for survival that anyone could think of. I’d even agree to it, because there’s just no other alternatives right now.”

In 2006, Grist called for Nuremberg-style trials for climate skeptics.  (The article was later retracted.)

Environmentalist Robert F. Kennedy Jr. lashed out at global warming skeptics in 2007, declaring “This is treason. And we need to start treating them as traitors.”

In 2007, a UN official – Yvo de Boer – warned that ignoring warming would be ‘criminally irresponsible’ Excerpt: The U.N.’s top climate official warned policymakers and scientists trying to hammer out a landmark report on climate change that ignoring the urgency of global warming would be “criminally irresponsible.”

The same year, another UN official – UN special climate envoy Dr. Gro Harlem Brundtland – said “it’s completely immoral, even, to question the UN’s scientific consensus on climate.

In 2008, prominent Canadian environmentalist David Suzuki called for government leaders skeptical of global warming to be “thrown into jail.”

The same year, British journalism professor Alex Lockwood said that writers questioning global warming should be banned.

In 2009, a writer at Talking Points Memo advocated that global warming “deniers” be executed or jailed. (He later retracted the threat.)

James Lovelock – environmentalist and creator of the “Gaia hypothesis” – told the Guardian in 2010:

We need a more authoritative world. We’ve become a sort of cheeky, egalitarian world where everyone can have their say. It’s all very well, but there are certain circumstances – a war is a typical example – where you can’t do that. You’ve got to have a few people with authority who you trust who are running it. And they should be very accountable too, of course.

 

But it can’t happen in a modern democracy. This is one of the problems. What’s the alternative to democracy? There isn’t one. But even the best democracies agree that when a major war approaches, democracy must be put on hold for the time being. I have a feeling that climate change may be an issue as severe as a war. It may be necessary to put democracy on hold for a while.

Earlier this month, an assistant philosophy professor at Rochester Institute of Technology said he wants to send people who disagree with him about global warming to jail.

And there are many other examples of threats made in regard to the climate debate.

Postscript:  If we can’t have free speech and an open scientific debate, then we are no longer living in a democracy or a society which follows the scientific method. Threatening scientific debate is anti-science and anti-liberty.

It is especially troubling given the background of climate discussions.  Specifically, in the 1970s, many American scientists were terrified of an imminent ice age.   Obama’s top science advisor – John Holdren – was one of them.  Holdren and some other scientists proposed pouring soot over the arctic to melt the ice cap and so prevent the dreaded ice age.   Holdren warned of dire consequences – including starvation and the largest tidal wave in history – if mankind did not rally on an emergency basis to stop the coming ice age.

Were those who questioned the likelihood of an imminent ice age also threatened with death or imprisonment?

Moreover, it is also concerning that many of the “solutions” proposed to combat a changing climate could do more harm than good (and see this).    That’s sort of like invading Iraq after 9/11 because we had to “do” something…

Let’s say that – hypothetically – 100% of all climate scientists reached a consensus that manmade global warming from carbon dioxide was an imminent threat.   Shouldn’t we choose approaches that actually work – and which do more good than harm (more) – instead of messing things up even further?


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Chit/Chat; Conspiracy; Miscellaneous; Science; Society; Weather
KEYWORDS: achillwind; algore; censorship; climatechange; climatechangehoax; cronyfascism; doomage; ecofascism; globalwarming; globalwarminghoax; globalwarmingscare; governmentcensor; hotaircult; oneworldgovernment; orwelliannightmare; stalinisttactics; thoughtcrime; tobintax; totalitarianism; waronsciencememe
Interesting /rant.
1 posted on 03/23/2014 7:37:53 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

“You’ve got to trust your instincts”

“Cause that’s your best bet”


2 posted on 03/23/2014 7:45:39 PM PDT by Zeneta (Thoughts in time and out of season.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
For example,
putting Galileo to death because
he didn’t agree with the “accepted” consensus
that the Sun revolved around the Earth

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_galilei

Galileo died of natural causes, you dim wit

Galileo continued to receive visitors until 1642,
when, after suffering fever and heart palpitations,
he died on 8 January 1642, aged 77

3 posted on 03/23/2014 7:46:20 PM PDT by HangnJudge
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Sorta reminds me of people who would dared to claim they could sail around the world without falling off the edge and were scorned and ridiculed and threatened with jail or even worse like death pre 1400’s


4 posted on 03/23/2014 7:47:10 PM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: jsanders2001

Or people who claim that you can make Guam tip over, on the opposite side of the fence . . . ?


5 posted on 03/23/2014 7:51:22 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: SunkenCiv; Tolerance Sucks Rocks; NormsRevenge; Marine_Uncle; Fred Nerks

fyi


6 posted on 03/23/2014 7:54:42 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

It seems to me that if someone threatens you with death for your opinion, are they not risking the same fate? At the very least I think a person can do time for a death threat. The closer the threat gets, the closer you get to a right to self defense.

The left engages in all these outrageous behaviors and the thing that concerns me is average Americans don’t assemble in anger against these miscreants.

Same goes for “apologizing” because someone insulted Mohammed. As an American citizen my God given right is to say whatever I damn please. Don’t go apologizing for Free Speech. And damn well don’t start talking about executing me for it!


7 posted on 03/23/2014 7:55:24 PM PDT by Williams (No Obama)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

It wouldn’t be the first time a society killed off someone for his or her intellectual views. The Greeks killed Socrates because of his beliefs.


8 posted on 03/23/2014 8:00:29 PM PDT by Vision Thing (obama wants his suicidal worshipers to become suicidal bombers.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

This is why we have a Second Amendment.


9 posted on 03/23/2014 8:02:09 PM PDT by Steely Tom (How do you feel about robbing Peter's robot?)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

No one expects the climate inquisition!


10 posted on 03/23/2014 8:07:33 PM PDT by drunknsage
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
all said by wretched scum that defend cop killers like mumia blew jamal... feh (+)
11 posted on 03/23/2014 8:10:17 PM PDT by Chode (Stand UP and Be Counted, or line up and be numbered - *DTOM* -vvv- NO Pity for the LAZY - 86-44)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

If we solve the problem, assuming there is one, we won’t get any more funding to study it.


12 posted on 03/23/2014 8:12:22 PM PDT by TBP (Obama lies, Granny dies.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Factual thought crime is always punished by death or isolation. What’s new or known?


13 posted on 03/23/2014 8:13:17 PM PDT by RedHeeler
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

This Man Made Global Warming non-science does create irrational paranoia in the zero info-bots staring like zombies into their smart phones. Such paranoia can create mob behavior which will call for the deaths of those who have been demonized by Alinsky tactics. I can just see the words flashing on their smart phones, “Exterminate the inferior specis! Death to the Global Warming Deniers!”


14 posted on 03/23/2014 8:15:21 PM PDT by jonrick46 (The opium of Communists: other people's money.)
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To: jonrick46
“Exterminate the inferior specis! Death to the Global Warming Deniers!”

"Eliminate the ninnies and the twits."

15 posted on 03/23/2014 8:16:14 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Galileo was sentenced to house arrest because he lied to the bishops when he said he would delay publishing his paper on how the earth’s rotation caused tides, but then published it anyway.


16 posted on 03/23/2014 8:16:51 PM PDT by <1/1,000,000th%
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Liberals want to take us back to the middle ages...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_Inquisition

From the link:

Various motives have been proposed for the monarchs’ decision to found the Inquisition such as increasing political authority, weakening opposition, suppressing conversos, profiting from confiscation of the property of convicted heretics, reducing social tensions, and protecting the kingdom from the danger of a fifth column.


17 posted on 03/23/2014 8:18:36 PM PDT by GOPJ (NASA: N othing A bout S pace A nymore - - FreperClearCase_guy)
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To: GOPJ
I wasn't expecting that...


18 posted on 03/23/2014 8:20:35 PM PDT by dfwgator
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To: jsanders2001
In the 1960s, Allan Sherman had a great deal of fun with this viewpoint, in a song called "Good Advice":

"Christopher Columbus was a seaman second class
"When I told him that the Indies could be found,
"By sailing to the West instead of sailing to the East.
"I advised him that I thought the world was round (I really thought so).
"Then I sent him down to ask good Queen Isabella
"To pawn her jewels for all they were worth.
"Next month, he set sail, and as everyone knows
"He fell off the edge of the earth."

19 posted on 03/23/2014 8:22:48 PM PDT by SAJ
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To: Williams

It seems to me that if someone threatens you with death for your opinion, are they not risking the same fate? At the very least I think a person can do time for a death threat. The closer the threat gets, the closer you get to a right to self defense.

Thank you. I was thinking the same thing, but having a hard time articulating it into words. Why aren’t we countering these bastards with the same level of threats if they attempt to silence or jail us or worse. They need to know that they will be met with force if they try any of their BS.


20 posted on 03/23/2014 8:26:49 PM PDT by hdbc (FUBO)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
He'd be a lot more persuasive if he'd just leave Galileo alone.

They DID ask Galileo to do an experiment: Show us the parallax! He couldn't. The instruments weren't precise enough. He WAS allowed to publish his theory as speculation. He was not allowed to publish it as proven because it wasn't.

But he insisted on doing so. So he was put in house arrest.

The author makes a good point. But the unnecessary and incorrect reference to Galileo makes him look silly, even thou he edited the error about Galileo's being executed.

21 posted on 03/23/2014 8:36:59 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
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To: jsanders2001

Oh for goodness sake.

You ARE joking, right? The educated Catholics knew the earth was round. They also had a pretty decent idea of its size. And so they knew that the westward route to “the Indies” would be very long indeed.


22 posted on 03/23/2014 8:42:27 PM PDT by Mad Dawg (In te, Domine, speravi: non confundar in aeternum.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach; 11B40; A Balrog of Morgoth; A message; ACelt; Aeronaut; AFPhys; AlexW; ...
DOOMAGE!

Global Warming PING!

You have been pinged because of your interest in environmentalism, alarmist wackos, mainstream media doomsday hype, and other issues pertaining to global warming.

Freep-mail me to get on or off: Add me / Remove me

Please ping me to all note-worthy threads on global warming.

Global Warming on Free Republic

Latest from Global Warming News

Latest from Real Climate

Latest from Climate Depot

Latest from Greenie Watch

23 posted on 03/23/2014 9:16:24 PM PDT by Tolerance Sucks Rocks (The PASSING LANE is for PASSING, not DAWDLING)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

If global warming was a scientific hypothesis with good supporting data, an actual scientist would say, “Come on, have at me, prove me correct or incorrect.” Polemics can allow no contradictions.


24 posted on 03/23/2014 9:20:46 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
Galileo was "put to death"?

Boy, those ZeroHedgers sure know their history.

25 posted on 03/23/2014 10:09:10 PM PDT by wideawake
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

I think anyone who would imprison someone for expressing an opinion,,,should be shot like any despot. Just like you would for NKVD, Pol Pots Kymer Rouge, Gestapo, etc.

Free speech is my north star.


26 posted on 03/23/2014 10:24:58 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Williams

“And damn well don’t start talking about executing me for it!”

In the parts I came from, openly discussing killing or kidnapping someone was a good way to get your own lamp blown out if they heard about it. People are funny that way,,,


27 posted on 03/23/2014 10:29:53 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: <1/1,000,000th%

“Galileo was sentenced to house arrest because he lied to the bishops when he said he would delay publishing his paper on how the earth’s rotation caused tides, but then published it anyway.”

Gosh, everyone knows if you lie to a Bishop,, you need to be forcibly held there, against your will. That’s exactly something Jesus said it should be that way,,, right?


28 posted on 03/23/2014 10:32:58 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Nice!


29 posted on 03/23/2014 10:36:48 PM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Williams
It seems to me that if someone threatens you with death for your opinion, are they not risking the same fate? At the very least I think a person can do time for a death threat. The closer the threat gets, the closer you get to a right to self defense.

That's just the way I see it. However, the enviro-whacko commies have already gone far beyond threats. Many of them are entrenched in government agencies that are stealing land, shutting down businesses, destroying jobs, fining people for bogus reasons, and otherwise causing real harm to productive citizens.

30 posted on 03/23/2014 10:50:07 PM PDT by meadsjn
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
So if Glowbull Warming was proven to be a hoax it would be
just and fitting to execute everyone who supported it right?

Fair is fair after all!

31 posted on 03/23/2014 10:59:12 PM PDT by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
RE: "Interesting /rant."

Ernie. I would like to add a ditto to your short statement.
32 posted on 03/23/2014 11:11:43 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Galt level is not far away......)
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To: Mad Dawg

> Oh for goodness sake.

You ARE joking, right? The educated Catholics knew the earth was round. They also had a pretty decent idea of its size. And so they knew that the westward route to “the Indies” would be very long indeed.

you forget not everyone had Internet access back in the day where they knew all these things nor did they have the telphones here they ould instantly communicate knowledge like this to one another... The ancient Greeks knew it long before the Catholics did...: )


33 posted on 03/23/2014 11:25:16 PM PDT by jsanders2001
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To: Olog-hai

“Will the, mars rover see the moon flag?”


34 posted on 03/24/2014 1:33:18 AM PDT by Organic Panic
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

“Suppose it was discovered tomorrow that the greenhouse effects has been way understimated, and that the catastrophic effects are actually going to set in 10 years from now, and not 100 years from now or something. Well, given the state of the popular movements we have today, we’d probably have a fascist takeover-with everybody agreeing to it, because that would be the only method for survival that anyone could think of. I’d even agree to it, because there’s just no other alternatives right now.”

Not me, in 10 years i’ll be 87 years old and don’t give a damn!


35 posted on 03/24/2014 1:49:33 AM PDT by dalereed
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

Greenfield: The End of Science
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/3136487/posts

Great commentary on the general subject being discussed here. Very worthwhile.


36 posted on 03/24/2014 1:50:32 AM PDT by FreedomPoster (Islam delenda est)
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To: GOPJ
Various motives have been proposed for the monarchs’ decision to found the Inquisition such as increasing political authority, weakening opposition, suppressing conversos, profiting from confiscation of the property of convicted heretics, reducing social tensions, and protecting the kingdom from the danger of a fifth column.

Which worked, sort of.

Spain didn't have a devastating religious war, like Germany, France and England, among others.

37 posted on 03/24/2014 6:10:15 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Mad Dawg

Yup. All educated people had known the earth was spherical for at least 2000 years.

Columbus underestimated the size of the earth, and overestimated the width of Asia.

The pundits at court were much closer to the actual distances involved and pointed out that Chris would run out of supplies long before he reached Japan.

They were quite right. If America hadn’t been in the way, CC and all his sailors would have died and the Crown’s investment would have been lost.


38 posted on 03/24/2014 6:13:41 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Sherman Logan
In 200 BC, travelers told the head of the Alexandria Library, Eratosthenes, about a well near present-day Aswan. The bottom of the well was lit by the sun at noon during the summer solstice. At that moment the sun was straight overhead. Eratosthenes realized he could measure the shadow cast by a tower in Alexandria while no shadow was being cast in Aswan. Then, knowing the distance to Aswan, it'd be simple to calculate Earth's radius.

Due to some erroneous assumptions he was off by about 15%. Not too shabby for the time.

39 posted on 03/24/2014 6:29:11 AM PDT by Mycroft Holmes (<= Mash name for HTML Xampp PHP C JavaScript primer. Programming for everyone.)
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To: Mycroft Holmes

Fascinating story. Given the paucity of their equipment, the Greeks did some amazing scientific-like work.

OTOH, huge amounts of their speculations were wildly off, but we remember the ones that were reasonably close to the truth. Like Eratosthenes and Democritus.


40 posted on 03/24/2014 7:03:30 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: TigersEye
LOL!

That would take out a whole slew a large slice of the Global Elites,.

41 posted on 03/24/2014 9:19:10 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Mycroft Holmes; Marine_Uncle
Thanks....

This would be a great story to use with a Geometry class.

42 posted on 03/24/2014 9:24:21 AM PDT by Ernest_at_the_Beach
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To: Tolerance Sucks Rocks

Thanks


43 posted on 03/24/2014 9:24:31 AM PDT by GOPJ (NASA: N othing A bout S pace A nymore - - FreperClearCase_guy)
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To: dfwgator

LOL - thanks


44 posted on 03/24/2014 9:26:15 AM PDT by GOPJ (NASA: N othing A bout S pace A nymore - - FreperClearCase_guy)
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Bookmarking


45 posted on 03/24/2014 9:28:30 AM PDT by RandallFlagg ("I said I never had much use for one. Never said I didn't know how to use it." --Quigley)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach

We’ll just have to muddle along in the mediocrity of our dull fact based lives without them. ;-)


46 posted on 03/24/2014 12:09:39 PM PDT by TigersEye (Stupid is a Progressive disease.)
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To: Ernest_at_the_Beach
RE: "This would be a great story to use with a Geometry class."
I would think the same.
47 posted on 03/24/2014 12:52:38 PM PDT by Marine_Uncle (Galt level is not far away......)
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