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Overcriminalization of America with Jason Lewis
American Legislator ^ | 3-25-14 | ALEC

Posted on 03/25/2014 2:30:58 PM PDT by ThethoughtsofGreg

On March 24, Cara Sullivan went on The Jason Lewis Show to discuss the importance of criminal justice reforms, which include mandatory minimum sentencing reform, criminal intent requirements within the law, provisional licensing and the pervasiveness of overcriminalization in America. Cara is the director of ALEC’s Justice Performance Project, which works to highlight the need for reforms within our criminal justice system and recently produced the report, “Criminalizing America – How Big Government Makes a Criminal of Every American.”

Listen below to Cara’s hour-long segment on The Jason Lewis Show:

(Excerpt) Read more at americanlegislator.org ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy
KEYWORDS: conservative; jasonlewis; overcriminalization

1 posted on 03/25/2014 2:30:58 PM PDT by ThethoughtsofGreg
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To: ThethoughtsofGreg

Bump for later.


2 posted on 03/25/2014 2:35:18 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: JimSEA

Caught it live. Well worth the listen.


3 posted on 03/25/2014 2:36:27 PM PDT by ButThreeLeftsDo (Support Free Republic!!!)
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To: ThethoughtsofGreg

Hand in hand with over-regulation.


4 posted on 03/25/2014 2:49:05 PM PDT by umgud (2A can't survive dem majorities)
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To: ThethoughtsofGreg

US has the highest rate of incarceration of any country.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_incarceration_rate


5 posted on 03/25/2014 2:55:51 PM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est. New US economy: Fascism on top, Socialism on the bottom.)
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To: grumpygresh

“US has the highest rate of incarceration of any country.”

Like everything the government touches, it becomes an industry unto itself (like education). Once enough government workers and politicians are involved, it becomes impossible to roll back - it is a permanent growing cost to Americans.


6 posted on 03/25/2014 2:57:54 PM PDT by kearnyirish2 (Affirmative action is economic war against white males (and therefore white families).)
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To: ThethoughtsofGreg

bump for later


7 posted on 03/25/2014 2:58:02 PM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: ThethoughtsofGreg

What they are in process of doing is criminalizing good actions, and de-criminalizing crimes.


8 posted on 03/25/2014 3:18:21 PM PDT by I want the USA back (Media: completely irresponsible traitors. Complicit in the destruction of our country.)
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To: grumpygresh

Yes we do, and an almost opaque Bureau of Prisons. Shameful at so many levels, for so many reasons.


9 posted on 03/25/2014 3:45:34 PM PDT by Psalm 144 (FIGHT! FIGHT! SEVERE CONSERVATIVE AND THE WILD RIGHT!)
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I agree. For too long Republican’s have stood on the side of “Law and Order” and not on the side of “Logic and Freedom”.

It’s time to let every single person convicted of a victimless crime out of jail.

No Victim = No Crime.

It is time for the “prison industry” to be rolled back.


10 posted on 03/25/2014 4:41:29 PM PDT by RC51
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To: RC51

if they steal from corporations there are victims. the company, the shareholders, the customers, the company’s insurers.

if they do drugs there are victims, their kids, their families.

if they sell to people the people buying are the victims. sellers don’t give two sh1ts about people.

negative personal actions affect others. we are not in a vacuum where our bad choices only impact us.

you want them legal, get people in who will legalize them.


11 posted on 03/25/2014 5:31:00 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

if they do drugs there are victims, their kids, their families.

So let’s throw their father/mother in jail. His family & kids are way better off then. Really?!

Our govt says this drug is good yet that drug is bad. Do this drug and we tax it, do that drug and you rot in jail and destroy your family.

Republicans public image is in the crapper. They could pivot and become “The Party of Family”. Let the Democrats own being “The Party of the State”.

Being the party of family values means you need to keep families together. Even if that means spending a billion dollars on drug treatment programs instead of another SuperMax prison.


12 posted on 03/25/2014 5:55:09 PM PDT by RC51
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To: RC51

legalizing family-destroying drugs won’ t make republicans the party of the family.

and you just proved my point about drugs affecting others than just the drug user or seller, when you complain it impacts other people too. thanks for confirming my point.

people ought to think about actions and the consequences maybe before doing them. nobody puts a gun to their head to take drugs, or sell them.


13 posted on 03/25/2014 7:15:58 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
if they do drugs there are victims, their kids, their families.

The same with drunks, but we don't make sure their families are destroyed, or at least suffer, by throwing alcohol users in prison and denying them access to Federal student aid, nor do we seize the assets of liquor store owners or folks suspected of having alcohol profits for selling booze.

The only sharp line I can see between legal psychoactive drugs (alcohol, nicotine and caffeine) and illegal ones is that the former were popular in Europe at the time of the American Founding, while the latter weren't. Sure some drugs are so evil in their effects on the user that trade in them (or giving them as gifts) should be kept illegal (crystal meth, extacy, "bath salts" and the nasty Russian concotion "krokodile" come readily to mind), as folks who sell them, even to willing buyers, or give them to others, are victimizing the customers.

But the attitude of "using drugs will ruin your life, and just to make sure, we'll ruin it for good with a criminal conviction and all kinds of legal disabilities if we catch you", trampling civil liberties with non-knock raids and property rights with forfeitures even on suspicion of being involved in the drug trade has only had the effect of giving the trade the the most ruthless and evil drug gangs, depriving the state of tax revenues on the trade, and filling prisons with folks whose crime was possessing more than some arbitrarily set weight or volume of some psychoactive substance which legislators decided indicated intent to sell at great expense to the taxpayer.

14 posted on 03/25/2014 7:20:28 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: RC51

it isn’t up to the state to rehab people. just as it isnt to give people healthcare, or pay you when you arent working, or feeding your kids three times a day at school, or any other unconstitutional overreach the nanny state has expanded into.

it is to protect people by keeping the peace, to administer justice, and to punish wrongdoers. government is not designed or equipped to do charity, teach your kids, do every social welfare program one can think of, plus be your own personal conscience.


15 posted on 03/25/2014 7:21:04 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: The_Reader_David

where have you been? we do put drunk drivers in prison. companies fire alcoholics.

in prison all addicts go thru detox because they can’ t get alcohol or drugs. that is a helpful aspect of prison for these people. they have no choice but to get off whatever they’re on.


16 posted on 03/25/2014 7:23:35 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: The_Reader_David

no-knock raids are totally a different deal as swat was sold to people under false pretenses, as it was supposed to be used against drug houses and gangs, not the everyday solo individual. this is part of state dept pub 7277 freedom from war document to increase the us’ internal domestic security forces as the military is turned over more and more to global governance bodies to control. swat teams are the way they have accomplished this. the war on drugs was an excuse. at the same time it kept govt rolling in cash and assets. but that doesn’t mean undeserved awful people are in jail, or that certain terrible drugs shouldn’t be illegal.

most people can handle alcohol. can’ t say the same foir others. wew lose enoiugh people already to drunk, we don’t need to lose more to more potheads, crackheads, coke snifferes, meth-heads, speed feaks, heroin addicts or any other drug that gets you hooked quickly and soon becomes the only thing one gives a crap about.


17 posted on 03/25/2014 7:32:05 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

So I guess you’d be all for prohibition of alcohol and the criminalization of nicotine.

Have you ever actually contemplated what it must be like to be in jail?


18 posted on 03/25/2014 8:21:36 PM PDT by RC51
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To: Secret Agent Man

Drunk drivers. Not drunks. We don’t arrest folks for having a few bottles of booze with the equivalent intoxicating power of 25 grams of pot. There’s no large quantity of booze you can have in your liquor cabinet that creates a presumption that you were going to engage in a felony by selling the stuff like there is with any of the psychoactive substances that weren’t popular in Europe c. 1776. You don’t get arrested for having a wine cellar if your house is within 1000 feet of a school.

Companies fire folks whose drinking affects their job performance.

How about applying the same standards to other psychoactive substances we do do alcohol? If activities you undertake while under the influence endanger public safety, that, the endangerment of public safety, not the use per se, should be a crime like drunk driving. If using affects your job performance, you’ll get fired, not because you have some metabolite from whatever you were amusing yourself with on the weekend turn up in your urine.


19 posted on 03/25/2014 8:35:22 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Okay, so once they’re detoxed in prison and they’ve lost their job, and can’t find another one because of the pervasiveness of criminal background checks, what then? Clean and sober and on the dole, or more likely back to the drugs or booze because their life sucks thanks to being turned into criminals by your jackbooted nanny-state approach to what should be a public health problem, rather than a crime problem. How, precisely, does this help their family, whom you aver to be their “victims”?


20 posted on 03/25/2014 8:41:25 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Lets get specific:

In 2012 nearly half (48.3%) of all drug arrests were for marijuana — a total of 749,825.

Now go and Google the lethal dose for marijuana vs alcohol. Do you think a father should be imprisoned for consuming a beer at his backyard summer BBQ? A drug that does kill people merely from consumption alone.

Our country is arresting and jailing a huge number of people over this. Think about it. 750k cases all involving tens of thousands of lawyers, courts, cops, jails, judges... over what?
Billions of dollars are spent on this each year. Why?
Over a drug that can’t kill a person?

For the record even if marijuana was legal I wouldn’t do it. But my neighbor having the freedom to consume it would bother me about as much as a neighbor who smoked nicotine.

As a conservative I want to see less jails, less prisoners and families intact. I want to see people (as flawed as they might be) free to chose both good and bad.

Lets start looking less like China and more like America. A prison population like we have today isn’t a sign that America is free and healthy. It’s a sign that something is very wrong here.


21 posted on 03/25/2014 8:49:12 PM PDT by RC51
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To: RC51

i have soberly contemplated it. to that end i do not do illegal drugs. or drive drunk. or even get intoxicated. i do not sell illegal drugs.

yes. i certainly have contemplated it. do you think the people who do illegal drugs or sell them, contemplated it?


22 posted on 03/25/2014 9:01:03 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: RC51

i am more worried about the country jailing me, or trying to, because i won’t go along with them turning it into the ussa.


23 posted on 03/25/2014 9:03:32 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: RC51

since when does a drug have to kill someone to be banned?

a teaspoon of nicotine can kill you.

for te pot users it’s not about tem dying, as muchg as them driving or doing stupid things while high, killing other people. colorado has arrested large numbersof pot users high while driving since they legalized it.

you want to die as the result of a drunk or a person high on drugs? sounds like you’d be just fine with it.


24 posted on 03/25/2014 9:07:12 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: The_Reader_David

many people who want drugs legalized want it not for the rights of others, but either because they want to do their favorite illegal drugs, and/or sell them. they care nothing for the fact people on illegal drugs commit theft and robbery and burglary and assault and in some cases battery and murder, to fuel their habits, or kill people while’high. they totally gloss over that because of their own ‘personal desires to do certain illegal drugs they like.

how bout you?


25 posted on 03/25/2014 9:19:43 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

The elites don’t want drunks running into their limousines. They penalize bartenders who serve too many drinks to patrons. The elites are fanatics. That’s why they treat us like cockroaches in airports, stadiums, and anywhere else they have to co-mingle with us proles.

And since everything offends them except real crime (which they are protected from) our prisons are full of people convicted of trifling offenses.


26 posted on 03/25/2014 9:30:01 PM PDT by Luke21
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To: RC51

the diff with alcohol is that it can be used responsibly. a person can have some, and not become drunk.

you can’t use crack responsibly. you cant use meth responsibly. can’ t use heroin responsibly. people don’ t take drugs in such an amount as NOT to get high. that’s ALWAYS the goal when one takes any illegal drug. further one can drink alcohol and not feel like the next time they have to drink more. with the above drugs that is not true. they have to take more to get to the same high as the brain needs more as it gets damaged.

addicts may remain FUNCTIONAL in areas of their life for awhile but eventually they can’ t. in contrast most people who drink do not become alcoholics and remain normal functional people in all areas of their life. people on illegal drugs get hooked and destroy their lives because the drug takes over everything. the vast majority of regular drinkers of alcohol do not destroy their lives with alcohol.

if you cant understand te difference you can’t see the truth in front of you.


27 posted on 03/25/2014 9:38:44 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Luke21

ummmm.....

i am an average guy, and i don’t want you or anyone else drunk or high running into my car either or mowing me down on the sidewalk. or breaking into my home trying to steal stuff to sell to support their habit. or robbing me on the street for money to buy their drugs.

i guess that might be too much to ask for you who want to get drunk or high and violate my rights in the process.


28 posted on 03/25/2014 9:43:54 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man
Have you considered the fact that some, at least, of the effects you attibute to illegal drugs, are the result of illegal not the result of the drug? Define people to be criminals, push the cost of their intoxicant sky high with the black-market premium that gets higher the more ruthlessly the prohibition is enforced, and the users will be more likely to commit crimes. How many people commit robberies to feed their alcohol habit? Surprisingly few. Of course, there are bar fights with alcohol-fueled assaults and occasionally murders, but somehow we noticed that Prohibition was a lousy idea.

On your theory, 19th century America and Britain should have been awash with theft, robbery, burglary and assault to feed all the laudanum users habits, but somehow, they weren't, perhaps because laudanum (and other opiates and cocaine and marijuana) were all perfectly legal until the "Progressives" (remember them, we don't like them here at FR -- enemies of freedom, the source of all manner of baleful ideas for social engineering) decided to improve society's morals by banning them.

29 posted on 03/25/2014 9:45:04 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: The_Reader_David

just admit you want to take illegal drugs an/or sell them. that’s the only reason you want this. you are willing to overlook vast numbers of people who take them get hooked and destroy their lives and others through crime and robbing the people that love them of the person they were, because YOU want to take one or more illegal drugs. and/or sell them.


30 posted on 03/25/2014 9:50:51 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: The_Reader_David

Have you considered the fact that some, at least, of the effects you attibute to illegal drugs, are the result of illegal not the result of the drug?


That is exactly right, i think there is a limit to how far you can push and control people until it starts backfiring.

I don,t drink but i do smoke and with all of the sin tax on cigarettes i have to wonder if some of the younger people might steal to buy them.

I don,t like thieves so i wish the communist government we have would quit producing them, and i wish all of the Communists who votes them in would go to Cuba.

I am not up on history that much but have heard stories of 17th and 18th century England where even many of the clergy in the Churches closed their eyes to much that people did because of the high taxes and stupid regulations.


31 posted on 03/25/2014 10:32:55 PM PDT by ravenwolf (ost void of pend)
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To: RC51

Tens of thousands of lawyers, courts, cops, jails, judges have built careers around this and they all get paid.

It’s big business.


32 posted on 03/26/2014 12:51:06 PM PDT by Ray76 (Profit from the mistakes of others, you'll never live long enough to make them all yourself.)
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