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Widow trying to sell family home of 40 years finds she doesn't own $1.2 million property after husba
UK Daily Mail ^ | April 1, 2014 | Jessica Jerreat

Posted on 04/01/2014 5:49:30 PM PDT by kiryandil

An elderly widow who had fallen behind in her property taxes discovered she longer owned her home after trying to sell it to pay off her debt.

Unbeknown to Hertha Handler, ownership of her $1.2 million Oyster Bay Cove home in Long Island has been transferred to an investor who bought two of the liens against the property.

The 73-year-old widow had lived in the property for more than 40 years but after her husband died several years ago, she slipped behind on taxes and had an outstanding debt of $200,000.

Multiple liens had been made against the property, where Mrs Handler had raised her two sons, but she had no idea ownership had been transferred to investor Albert Kalimian.

By buying just two of the liens from Oyster Bay Cove village for about $3,000 each, Mr Kalimian was able to take possession of the property.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


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KEYWORDS: herthahandler; longisland; newyork; oysterbaycove; speculators; youareapeasant
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Many American peasants don't understand that their state governments stole their homes within the last 30-40 years.

YOU DON'T OWN YOUR HOME. You're renting it from the government. Rent due twice annually.

Unless, of course, you live in Alaska...

1 posted on 04/01/2014 5:49:30 PM PDT by kiryandil
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To: kiryandil

What’s special about Alaska?


2 posted on 04/01/2014 5:51:24 PM PDT by BipolarBob
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To: BipolarBob

Most jurisdictions in Alaska don’t have a property tax.


3 posted on 04/01/2014 5:52:12 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: kiryandil

To accumulate $200,00 worth of property tax debt would take several years. She would have been notified several times by the town she lives in. For whatever reason she ignored the letters and warnings that were sent to her.


4 posted on 04/01/2014 5:53:44 PM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: kiryandil

I wish the Constitution had specified Allodial title for land ownership. Absolute ownership: no ifs, no ands, no buts.


5 posted on 04/01/2014 5:54:41 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy
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To: CaptainK
Not if her husband sat on them before he died.

No comment on renting your house from the government?

;-)

6 posted on 04/01/2014 5:55:25 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: kiryandil
Her husband probably always took care of the bills and when he died she didn't take them over. Happens all the time.
7 posted on 04/01/2014 5:55:33 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("A man who damns money obtained it dishonorably; a man who respects it has earned it." --Ayn Rand)
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To: BipolarBob

Between governments and Indian tribes, there is very little private land in Alaska. Shockingly little.


8 posted on 04/01/2014 5:56:12 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: jjotto

What are the prices like for private land, if you can get it?


9 posted on 04/01/2014 5:58:38 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: kiryandil

Tax Lien sale.


10 posted on 04/01/2014 5:58:40 PM PDT by headstamp 2 (What would Scooby do?)
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To: CaptainK
For whatever reason she ignored the letters and warnings that were sent to her.

Perhaps her husband handled the finances. Maybe she has physical and/or metal disabilities.

I recently took over my elderly parents finances - they were behind on everything. It happens all the time.

But hey there's money to be made. Can't stop progress.

11 posted on 04/01/2014 5:59:08 PM PDT by skeeter
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To: headstamp 2

Yeeeeeeeeessss?


12 posted on 04/01/2014 5:59:36 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: CaptainK

Some places have enormous property taxes and if you don’t pay the penalty can be several times the tax. On a 1.5 million dollar home, it might not have taken long.


13 posted on 04/01/2014 5:59:50 PM PDT by Varda
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To: CaptainK

You are right there should have been multiple notifications but then again sometimes it just seems to slip between the cracks.

I used to know a lawyer who regularly bought up tax sale property. He didn’t do it on the sly tho. What he would do is buy the owner’s right of redemption from him.

One time he asked the owner if he was willing to sell his right and the guy had no idea his property was being sold for taxes. The guy went down and paid them immediately.


14 posted on 04/01/2014 5:59:56 PM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: kiryandil

This is wrong.


15 posted on 04/01/2014 6:01:40 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: kiryandil

I know I have to pay my property taxes and if I don’t I’ll have a lien attached to my home. Therefore I pay in a timely fashion and if I get a note from the town that I’m late I pay right away.

I love to pay my property tax in the same way I love to pay my income tax.

Hopefully the person who purchased her lien works things out with her.


16 posted on 04/01/2014 6:02:13 PM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: yarddog

I live on Long Island and I know the towns are diligent in sending out several notices before beginning any proceedings.


17 posted on 04/01/2014 6:04:13 PM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: CaptainK
I love to pay my property tax in the same way I love to pay my income tax.

My view is that I don't remember being consulted on either one. I do know they conned my great-grandfather into agreeing with the income tax - on the richest 1%...

18 posted on 04/01/2014 6:05:05 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: kiryandil
$1.2 Million House?

Even for New York, that's pretty extreme for that thing.

19 posted on 04/01/2014 6:06:04 PM PDT by SkyPilot
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To: Varda
On a 1.5 million dollar home, it might not have taken long.

Especially on Long Island.

20 posted on 04/01/2014 6:08:02 PM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: CaptainK

I advocate that the local governmental taxing entities drop the pretense that the peasants own their homes, along with dropping the language in their bills and notices.

It’s THEIRS, so why don’t they just come clean? For example, if you want to make changes to THEIR property, you have to get THEIR permission (permits).


21 posted on 04/01/2014 6:08:28 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: kiryandil

Property taxes are only 30-40 yrs old in this country?

Do you know who owned what is now Arlington National Cemetary before the Feds owned it and how they came into possession of it?

(It was taken from Gen. Robert E Lee for failure to pay taxes).


22 posted on 04/01/2014 6:10:51 PM PDT by Tea Party Terrorist (Why work for a living when you can vote for a living?)
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To: CaptainK

Where I live, the tax collector encourages anyone who falls behind or is in danger of falling behind to contact him and work out the problem. He told me that he would rather work out a payment schedule or some other solution than go through the hassle and paperwork of collection, liens and what not.


23 posted on 04/01/2014 6:12:01 PM PDT by fatnotlazy
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To: CaptainK

Typically at the beginning of year three of delinquent taxes they will send you a registered letter, which includes a payment schedule for the past due amounts plus the current balance due.

Also, the county will reduce the assessment on the property with each delinquency, such that the amount owed (at the end of three consecutive delinquencies) and the assessed value are the same, such that the value of the property when sold will cover the arrears and no amount is due the property registrant.

It is peculiar that they sold the arrears amounts for a few thousand, rather than move to foreclosure. This smells like in inside job from the county clerk’s office and the buyer of the arrearage.


24 posted on 04/01/2014 6:12:39 PM PDT by Ouderkirk (To the left, everything must evidence that this or that strand of leftist theory is true)
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To: kiryandil
So you don't have locally collected property taxes. Wow! How does the local government run? Does it depend on a sales tax or income tax?

If not, does that mean that most of your taxes go to the state and the feds?

If so, doesn't that mean that most of the decisions about what you can and cannot do are decided at the state and federal level?

You may have lucked out in that the state and the feds don't care about what happens in your neck of the woods, but they will eventually. And wouldn't it have been better all along if your local government collected most of the tax dollars you had to spend, and your local government made most of the decision about what you can and cannot do?

Or would you prefer to leave those decisions up to the state and the feds who are almost impossible to reason with?

25 posted on 04/01/2014 6:13:43 PM PDT by who_would_fardels_bear
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To: kiryandil; Kathy in Alaska

Best ask an Alaska local.

A few years ago, remote land could go $2000 an acre. Things like roads, utilities and water maybe a long way away, and mineral rights and such may not be included.


26 posted on 04/01/2014 6:14:27 PM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Tea Party Terrorist
Property taxes are only 30-40 yrs old in this country?

Most of the states made an organized effort to pass draconian tax lien forfeiture laws in the last 30-40 years. You used to be able to flip them off until you died in a lot of states, then they'd take the money out of the estate.

No longer. I think in my state, it's like 18 months before they smack you with the BIG penalty, and the forfeiture letter.

27 posted on 04/01/2014 6:15:55 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: who_would_fardels_bear

I would prefer not to rent my land that I paid off completely years ago.


28 posted on 04/01/2014 6:17:15 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: SkyPilot

1.2 million for that house on Long Island? Absolutely!

The taxes are probably 20k a year too!

Crazy. No wonder the young kids can’t afford to stay and live near their parents.


29 posted on 04/01/2014 6:17:22 PM PDT by ladyjane
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To: Moonman62

Long Island’s Nassau County is one of the highest property taxes ripoff in the nation. Its a crime that any jurisdiction can seize properties on tax defaults. At the very least they should give the widow a fair market value for her home less any outstanding bills owed.


30 posted on 04/01/2014 6:21:41 PM PDT by tflabo (Truth or Tyranny)
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To: Tea Party Terrorist
(It [Arlington] was taken from Gen. Robert E Lee for failure to pay taxes).

LOL! The story is a FANTASTIC example of government rapine and pillage.

They got it back, BTW - after the government got its peepee whacked over its thieving. But they sold it to .gov for a nice chunk of change...

31 posted on 04/01/2014 6:22:28 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: Tea Party Terrorist

It was illegally seized and returned to Lee’s son after the Civil War. He sold it back to the government for $150,000.


32 posted on 04/01/2014 6:24:12 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: kiryandil

The Feds didnt follow due process, which means there is a process for taking for failure to pay property taxes.

My point is that prop taxes are nothing new in the US.

In some states, you would have to list all your personal belongings yearly and pay a tax on them. I dont know if any states still do that.


33 posted on 04/01/2014 6:24:14 PM PDT by Tea Party Terrorist (Why work for a living when you can vote for a living?)
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To: tflabo
At the very least they should give the widow a fair market value for her home less any outstanding bills owed.

It's rare to find much empathy in armed robbers...

34 posted on 04/01/2014 6:24:32 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: headstamp 2

I hate vultures who buy at those sales from people like that widow. I let it happen to me years ago but knew I was delinquent and the consequences. Luckily I got enough to redeem my property.


35 posted on 04/01/2014 6:25:03 PM PDT by Aliska
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To: SkyPilot

Even for New York, that’s pretty extreme for that thing................................... Put that house up for sale in Silicon Valley and it would be close to 3 Million. there are many estate homes where this one is located.


36 posted on 04/01/2014 6:25:36 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (2016 an election or a coronation of a Queen?)
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To: kiryandil

It’s rare to find much empathy in armed robbers... ................. even more so with unarmed Laywers.


37 posted on 04/01/2014 6:26:53 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (2016 an election or a coronation of a Queen?)
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To: Tea Party Terrorist
My point is that prop taxes are nothing new in the US.

My point is, you used to have a choice, not so long ago. Now, you're just renting.

Don't defend the indefensible.

In some states, you would have to list all your personal belongings yearly and pay a tax on them. I dont know if any states still do that.

Virginia itself was a prime example of that. I think they did away with it in the last decade or two.

38 posted on 04/01/2014 6:27:19 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: Bringbackthedraft

LAWYERS!!!!


39 posted on 04/01/2014 6:27:34 PM PDT by Bringbackthedraft (2016 an election or a coronation of a Queen?)
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To: kiryandil

A Tax on Property is a Tax on Liberty.


40 posted on 04/01/2014 6:28:01 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: kiryandil

That’s how it works. They sell the property to satisfy the liens. She gets the rest.
I’m assuming she just ignored the property taxes even though she was aware of them. It happens quite a lot. When old people don’t want to do something, they sometimes claim “confusion”. My wife works for a CPA. They get “confused” about paying taxes but become experts on avoiding them.
My mother was a devout liberal Democrat and she hated paying taxes but she sure wanted everyone else to pay them.


41 posted on 04/01/2014 6:30:16 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: Paladin2

It’s amazing that ANYONE would defend renting their real property from the government.


42 posted on 04/01/2014 6:30:55 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: Tea Party Terrorist

wiki

Property taxes in the United States originated during colonial times.[60] By 1796, state and local governments in fourteen of the fifteen states taxed land, but only four taxed inventory (stock in trade). Delaware did not tax property, but rather the income from it. In some states, “all property, with a few exceptions, was taxed; in others, specific objects were named. Land was taxed in one state according to quantity, in another according to quality, and in a third not at all. Responsibility for the assessment and collection of taxes in some cases attached to the state itself; in others, to the counties or townships.” Vermont and North Carolina taxed land based on quantity, while New York and Rhode Island taxed land based on value. Connecticut taxed land based on type of use. Procedures varied widely.[61]

During the period from 1796 until the Civil War, a unifying principle developed: “the taxation of all property, movable and immovable, visible and invisible, or real and personal, as we say in America, at one uniform rate.”[62] During this period, property taxes came to be assessed based on value. This was introduced as a requirement in many state constitutions.

After the Civil War, intangible property, including corporate stock, took on far greater importance. Taxing jurisdictions found it difficult to find and tax this sort of property. This trend led to the introduction of alternatives to the property tax (such as income and sales taxes) at the state level.[16] Property taxes remained a major source of government revenue below the state level.

Hard times during the Great Depression led to high delinquency rates and reduced property tax revenues.[63] Also during the 1900s, many jurisdictions began exempting certain property from taxes. Many jurisdictions exempted homes of war veterans. After World War II, some states replaced exemptions with “circuit breaker” provisions limiting increases in value for residences.

Various economic factors have led to taxpayer initiatives in various states to limit property tax. California Proposition 13 (1978) amended the California Constitution to limit aggregate property taxes to 1% of the “full cash value of such property.” It also limited the increase in assessed value of real property to an inflation factor that was limited to 2% per year.


43 posted on 04/01/2014 6:30:56 PM PDT by morphing libertarian
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To: kiryandil
Property Taxes are a de Facto Wealth Tax.

It's well past time to tax the income from property, not the property itself.

44 posted on 04/01/2014 6:31:54 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: kiryandil

Once a year here in Georgia.


45 posted on 04/01/2014 6:33:30 PM PDT by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: AppyPappy; Ouderkirk
That’s how it works. They sell the property to satisfy the liens. She gets the rest.

Read post #24, by FReeper Ouderkirk:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/chat/3139905/reply?c=24

46 posted on 04/01/2014 6:33:52 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: kiryandil

New York must be really weird to reducer assessments to match a lien.


47 posted on 04/01/2014 6:35:34 PM PDT by AppyPappy
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To: AppyPappy

Sounds like theft to me.


48 posted on 04/01/2014 6:36:14 PM PDT by kiryandil (turning Americans into felons, one obnoxious drunk at a time (Zero Tolerance!!!))
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To: kiryandil
...discovered she longer owned her home...

If she doesn't own the house, why does she owe taxes? Shouldn't it be the owner?

49 posted on 04/01/2014 6:37:37 PM PDT by jeffc (The U.S. media are our enemy)
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To: SkyPilot

Yep. Here in the Midwest, that’s a $70 - $90K house. With a large lot maybe 100 - 120K.


50 posted on 04/01/2014 6:47:01 PM PDT by 2111USMC (Aim Small Miss Small)
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