Posted on 04/05/2014 7:41:07 PM PDT by Zionist Conspirator
Some of you may remember a year or two ago I posted a question about an umpire's call that made absolutely no sense whatsoever. Now I'd like to again ask my fellow FReepers to explain to me something I've seen in a baseball game that makes no sense.
Last night in the St. Louis/Pittsburgh game, bottom of the first inning: the lead-off batter, Marte, walks. Man on first. The next batter hits a broken bat liner to the shortstop who catches it and steps on second. It is called an unassisted double play.
Now, as I understand it, the moment the ball was caught the force play at second should have been killed. Marte would have had to have been tagged or the ball thrown to first base. Yet from what I saw, the shortstop merely caught the ball and then stepped on second, and the play was definitely unassisted (so he didn't throw to first). How does this get Marte out? Is there some arcane rule that says in certain situations the fly out doesn't kill the force?
Every time I think I know this game . . . !
I’m puzzled like you.
Infield fly?
If the runner stayed on first I would think he would still be safe but I would imagine that he would be well down the line if he ran on contact.
On a caught fly ball (I believe that is the situation you described), the runners on base must tag up (return and touch the base that they were originally on, after the ball is caught) before they can proceed. IF, after the ball is caught and before the runner ‘tags up’, the fielder touches the base (or throws it to a teammate who touches the base), the runner is ‘out’.
That would only make the batter automatically out and not the runner. Infield fly rule is meant to avoid the infielder purposely dropping a fly in order to get more than the batter out.
ONLY way that scenario works is if man is doubled off 2B..but you say only one on.
If he had taken it on a hop and stepped on 2B and thrown to 1B it would not have been ‘unassisted’.
You sure runners were not on 1st and 2nd?
Like I say ONLY way that ‘scenario’ works.
Runner at first had to have started running before tagging the bag. Since it was a liner that was caught with no ground contact, the runner would have been required to remain on base, tag up, and then run.
The penalty for running before the ball is caught, if discovered, the runner will be called out.
I don’t much about baseball, but I think the batter was out when the ball was caught and the guy on first was out when he tagged first base, no reason to throw to first because he was already out.
2. Are you sure the shortstop didn't run past second base and tag Marte? Was Marte running on the play?
Infield fly?
I hadn't thought of that, but I don't see what that would have to do with it. There should have been no force play at second base (because the batter was out), and yet there was.
Also the official score does not mention the infield fly rule, nor did any of the commentators.
bttt
I 'sped read' your description and missed a couple of important points. What you described makes no sense to me... If the ball was not caught - then a force out at 2nd base, but the batter would not be out. If the ball was caught, batter out and no force out on 2nd base... I agree - mystery to me.
Now that I have giving more thought. We must know..
“Who was on first?”
Infield fly has to be called before the ball is caught.
The penalty for running before the ball is caught, if discovered, the runner will be called out.
I'm afraid I don't understand that. It was a low ball, so no one knew it was going to be caught. Of course the runner at first took off. But here's the situation: the ss caught the ball, putting the batter out. But this still left the runner at first on his way to second. According to the rules as I have always understood them, the ss would have had to have physically tagged the runner (since the force play should have been killed) or else thrown to first where the runner would be declared out because he was too far from the base to tag back up. Yet the play was unassisted. There was no throw to first. The shortstop caught the ball (batter is out) and then simply drug his foot across second base, at which point the runner was called out. How was the force play still active after the batter had been called out?
|
|
SCORE | |
|---|---|---|
| Shelby Miller pitching for St. Louis | STL | PIT |
| S Marte walked. | 0 | 0 |
| T Snider lined out to shortstop, S Marte tagged out at second. | 0 | 0 |
| A McCutchen popped out to second. | 0 | 0 |
| 0 Runs, 0 Hits, 0 Errors | ||
Very strange. Have you seen a video clip of this play anywhere online?
Well there’s your answer. That’s what I originally suspected! LOL.
If he had taken it on a hop and stepped on 2B and thrown to 1B it would not have been ‘unassisted’.
You sure runners were not on 1st and 2nd?
Like I say ONLY way that ‘scenario’ works.
I know! That's what I don't get!
Yes, it was the Pirates' first inning, their first two batters. The lead-off man was walked, then the second batter hit into this "unassisted double play" at second!
I gave you the answer. The rule is very specific. The ball was caught on the fly. Obviously the runner left before the ball was caught which according to THE RULE makes the runner out. It doesn’t matter that ‘no one knew’ that the ball would be caught. It was and that’s the rule. Trust this old blue. It required NO throw to first the runner was out by his actions. The play was unassisted because that is the proper way to score this play.
Look at the rule book or accept the explanation from one who has (many times)
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