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Papyrus Referring to Jesusí Wife Is More Likely Ancient Than Fake, Scientists Say
NY Slimes ^ | 4/10/2014 | Laurie Goodstein

Posted on 04/10/2014 1:54:14 PM PDT by mojito

A faded fragment of papyrus known as the “Gospel of Jesus’s Wife,” which caused an uproar when unveiled by a Harvard Divinity School historian in 2012, has been tested by scientists who conclude in a journal published on Thursday that the ink and papyrus are very likely ancient, and not a modern forgery.

Skepticism about the tiny scrap of papyrus has been fierce because it contained a phrase never before seen in any piece of Scripture: “Jesus said to them, ‘My wife...’ ” Too convenient for some, it also contained the words “she will be able to be my disciple,” a clause that inflamed the debate in some churches over whether women should be allowed to be priests.

The papyrus fragment has now been analyzed by professors of electrical engineering, chemistry and biology at Columbia University, Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who reported that it resembles other ancient papyri from the fourth to the eighth centuries. (Scientists at the University of Arizona, who dated the fragment to centuries before the birth of Jesus, concluded that their results were unreliable.)

The test results do not prove that Jesus had a wife or disciples who were women, only that the fragment is more likely a snippet from an ancient manuscript than a fake, the scholars agree.

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: History; Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: catholicchurch; epigraphyandlanguage; faithandphilosophy; godsgravesglyphs; gospelofjesuswife; hewasarabbi; hoax; jamescameron; jamesossuary; jesustomb; jesuswife; karenking; letshavejerusalem; losttombofjesus; mariame; mariamne; marymagdalene; rabbismarry; religiousleft; revisionisthistory; sectarianturmoil; simchajacobovici; smashthepatriarchy; talpiot; talpiottomb; waronchristianity; waronhistory; waronreligion; weddingatcana; womenpriests
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It's just a miracle how things that confirm everything that liberals know is true are somehow confirmed by the "authority" of science.

Actually, although I'm not an expert on ancient papyrii, I believe that the text will be found to read not "Jesus said to them ""My wife....""; but rather, "Jesus said the them, ""My lesbian wife...."

And I was told this by the Archbishop of Canterbury. I swear.

1 posted on 04/10/2014 1:54:14 PM PDT by mojito
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To: mojito

It could just be a really old blasphemy


2 posted on 04/10/2014 1:55:31 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: mojito; Gamecock

Also time for the yearly classic “Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God” lie.


3 posted on 04/10/2014 1:56:50 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: mojito
The science is settled, don't you know?
4 posted on 04/10/2014 1:56:56 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum (Every great cause begins as a movement, becomes a business, and eventually degenerates into a racket)
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To: mojito

Wow, you would think Easter was coming up soon or something.


5 posted on 04/10/2014 1:57:20 PM PDT by Andyman (The truth shall make you FReep.)
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To: mojito
Harvard Divinity School historian in 2012, has been tested by scientists who conclude in a journal published on Thursday that the ink and papyrus are very likely ancient, and not a modern forgery

An ancient forgery, not a modern forgery. Truth has a hard time surviving at Harvard.

6 posted on 04/10/2014 1:58:08 PM PDT by PapaNew
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To: mojito

Anything to spread doubt and misleading information, thats for sure.


7 posted on 04/10/2014 1:58:19 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: GeronL
Certainly possible.

The fragment was dated to the 4th to 8th century, so it could very well be some wild gnostic nonsense of the time, rather than the gnostic nonsense of today. However, and science notwithstanding, I still suspect the later.

8 posted on 04/10/2014 1:58:59 PM PDT by mojito (Zero, our Nero.)
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To: driftdiver

Satan is on the job, 24/7/365. But, it ain’t gonna profit him one bit.


9 posted on 04/10/2014 1:59:29 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: mojito

An Ancient Fake


10 posted on 04/10/2014 1:59:46 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: mojito

‘Jesus’ (Yeshu or Yeshua see Chronicles II 31:15) was a common name in those days.


11 posted on 04/10/2014 1:59:56 PM PDT by ari-freedom (Obama is the biggest joke. But I can't laugh.)
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To: mojito

Many people were named Jesus.


12 posted on 04/10/2014 2:00:12 PM PDT by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: mojito
Let's see... Should I believe the Bible... or the New York Times?

One is a work of fiction, created by men with a political agenda, and unsubstantiated by facts.

The other is The Word of God.

13 posted on 04/10/2014 2:00:25 PM PDT by Fido969 (What's sad is most)
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To: mojito

Written by a crack-pot. There have always been crack-pots and will always be crack-pots. This was written a long time ago by a crack-pot.


14 posted on 04/10/2014 2:00:39 PM PDT by Justice
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To: mojito

“Jesus didn’t really exist, wasn’t really crucified, wasn’t resurrected, but He had a wife...” < /liberal left >


15 posted on 04/10/2014 2:01:04 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The new witchhunt: "Do you NOW, . . . or have you EVER , . . supported traditional marriage?")
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To: mojito

Any Bible scholars or practicing Jews: Wouldn’t a rabbi have to have a wife to be taken seriously, or am I misunderstanding the practices back then?


16 posted on 04/10/2014 2:02:08 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: mojito
It's just a miracle how things that confirm everything that liberals know is true are somehow confirmed by the "authority" of science.

Is there anything in this new papyrus about Jesus leaving the seat down or not taking out the garbage?

17 posted on 04/10/2014 2:02:10 PM PDT by Alex Murphy ("the defacto Leader of the FR Calvinist Protestant Brigades")
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To: Fido969

Even The Who were on to The New York Times in “Won’t Get Fooled Again”.


18 posted on 04/10/2014 2:02:24 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: mojito

Knocking the Catholic religion seems to be common before Easter and Christmas. The gnostic gospels were thrown out because they were about 200-300 years after Jesus. So they were ancient, but it would be like me writing George Washington’s ‘autobiography’.


19 posted on 04/10/2014 2:03:07 PM PDT by wattsgnu
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To: a fool in paradise

20 posted on 04/10/2014 2:03:07 PM PDT by Revolting cat! (I Laugh U!)
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To: F15Eagle

Why don’t scientists ever discount the tale of Mohammed riding into Heaven on horseback as Islamist holidays approach?


21 posted on 04/10/2014 2:03:09 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The new witchhunt: "Do you NOW, . . . or have you EVER , . . supported traditional marriage?")
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To: mojito

Ancient fake instead of a modern fake.


22 posted on 04/10/2014 2:03:09 PM PDT by Ingtar (The NSA - "We're the only part of government who actually listens to the people.")
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To: ari-freedom

Much like the Southwest USA.


23 posted on 04/10/2014 2:03:11 PM PDT by originalbuckeye (Moderation in temper is always a virtue; moderation in principle is always a vice. Paine)
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To: a fool in paradise

A God of heft: Lecturer says Americans too often pray to gain the unimportant (Mr. Obama’s pastor)
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-religion/3142702/posts


24 posted on 04/10/2014 2:03:15 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Find in the Gospels anywhere where Jesus was married.


25 posted on 04/10/2014 2:03:25 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: F15Eagle
You're right. As much an Easter tradition as coloring eggs.

Also time for the yearly classic “Jesus never claimed to be the Son of God” lie.

26 posted on 04/10/2014 2:03:50 PM PDT by DManA
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To: a fool in paradise

They hate getting their heads cut off or blown up.


27 posted on 04/10/2014 2:04:00 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: Revolting cat!

I get it. Nicely played.


28 posted on 04/10/2014 2:04:37 PM PDT by DManA
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To: mojito

I heard this on the radio today coming home from work. I thought about it and said to myself “if this is true, what harm is there in a man, even a son of God, to know the normal ebb and flow of life, even that between a husband and a wife?”

I do think this science and this discovery might be propped up those with darker ulterior motives and their reasons may be myriad. But, it still wouldn’t change my thoughts and feelings regarding Jesus and what we know about him through historical resources, more specifically through the bible in all its forms.

Frankly, I just don’t understand the point of it all, myself.


29 posted on 04/10/2014 2:04:46 PM PDT by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: wattsgnu

What do you mean the Catholic religion?


30 posted on 04/10/2014 2:05:17 PM PDT by DManA
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

My understanding, limited as it is, is that rabbis have an obligation to marry.


31 posted on 04/10/2014 2:05:42 PM PDT by mojito (Zero, our Nero.)
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To: F15Eagle

Many of the books were eliminated at the Council of Nicea and later ones, IIRC.


32 posted on 04/10/2014 2:05:57 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: DManA
Some of them look forward to these days so they can start the campaign. Much like that guy going through the Chik-fil-A drive-thru. He couldn't wait to get there that day and had his own video hassling a Christian carrying a cross to spread the Gospel.


33 posted on 04/10/2014 2:06:21 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: ari-freedom
‘Jesus’ (Yeshu or Yeshua see Chronicles II 31:15) was a common name in those days.

Probably doesn't refer to Him.
34 posted on 04/10/2014 2:06:28 PM PDT by Resettozero
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

A lot of heresy was eliminated, yes.


35 posted on 04/10/2014 2:07:12 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: DManA; F15Eagle
“I am trying here to prevent anyone saying the really foolish thing that people often say about Him: I’m ready to accept Jesus as a great moral teacher, but I don’t accept his claim to be God. That is the one thing we must not say. A man who was merely a man and said the sort of things Jesus said would not be a great moral teacher. He would either be a lunatic — on the level with the man who says he is a poached egg — or else he would be the Devil of Hell. You must make your choice. Either this man was, and is, the Son of God, or else a madman or something worse. You can shut him up for a fool, you can spit at him and kill him as a demon or you can fall at his feet and call him Lord and God, but let us not come with any patronizing nonsense about his being a great human teacher. He has not left that open to us. He did not intend to.”

― C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity

36 posted on 04/10/2014 2:07:49 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: GeronL

Exactly. There were plenty of heretical “gospels” floating around back then, in the first few centuries after Christ.


37 posted on 04/10/2014 2:08:44 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: mojito

Oh, for crying out loud...! Is it that time of year, again?

Does anyone not living under a rock (and especially after the execrable book/movie/cash-cow “The DaVinci Code”) really fail to remember that the Gnostic “Gospel of Judas” and “Gospel of Thomas” both portray Jesus having a “relationship” with Mary Magdalene?

(Irony, especially for the feminist lovers of “The DaVinci Code”: the “Gospel of Thomas” says that Jesus will “turn Mary Magdalene into a man, so that she may attain salvation, since women are not fit for eternal life”!)


38 posted on 04/10/2014 2:11:54 PM PDT by paladinan (Rule #1: There is a God. Rule #2: It isn't you.)
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To: mojito

I’m not aware of any dogma held by Traditional Christians (excluding anything that might be unique to Roman Catholics) that requires Jesus have never married. But since there is zero evidence that he did why even go there?


39 posted on 04/10/2014 2:12:56 PM PDT by DManA
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To: mojito

It all comes down to what one believes to be true. There are a lot of writings from long ago that have been deciphered and rewritten over time. Sometimes you just have to pick the ones you believe to be true and take it on faith.

The people that wrote ancient words are not here to defend or prove them to be true.


40 posted on 04/10/2014 2:15:14 PM PDT by soycd
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To: F15Eagle

Heresy...silliness...


41 posted on 04/10/2014 2:15:44 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: mojito

Why would it matter?


42 posted on 04/10/2014 2:15:49 PM PDT by bigbob (The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly. Abraham Lincoln)
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To: GeronL
It could just be a really old blasphemy

Odd how they don't include the option that it could be ancient and fake! Because we all know that there weren't any people faking things until Al Gore and Climate scientists. But the most important reason to accept what this clown says is because he's a SCIENTIST! Hell he couldn't possibly be wrong.

43 posted on 04/10/2014 2:16:34 PM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Any Bible scholars or practicing Jews: Wouldn’t a rabbi have to have a wife to be taken seriously, or am I misunderstanding the practices back then?

Rabbis did not exist until after the 2nd century Jewish diaspora.

44 posted on 04/10/2014 2:17:31 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: mountainlion
Many people were named Jesus.
Yup, like this guy,:

45 posted on 04/10/2014 2:17:45 PM PDT by Impala64ssa (You call me an islamophobe like it's a bad thing.)
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To: mojito

Perhaps even if this is a true historical record it is actually talking about the Church?


46 posted on 04/10/2014 2:18:05 PM PDT by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: Fido969
Every known printed/written copy of the Bible was created by men with their own agendas and desires.

I do believe that a great deal of it is a result of man's connection to God at some points throughout history. However, until we find a version that undoubtedly could not have been man-made, we should treat it as objectively as any other work.

47 posted on 04/10/2014 2:19:35 PM PDT by varyouga
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To: mojito

Daniel Ratericus narrat: Falsum sed accuratum.


48 posted on 04/10/2014 2:20:04 PM PDT by jtal (Runnin' a World in Need with White Folks' Greed - since 1492)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I think that, just like today, it was probably customary.

Now, Jesus was called “rabbi”, but that seems to have been a title of respect and not a formal job title. He wasn’t, for example, attached to a particular synagogue, and he didn’t receive formal training under other rabbis, as would have been the custom. So, I don’t think it would be surprising if he didn’t conform to the customs of rabbis in other ways.


49 posted on 04/10/2014 2:20:42 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: a fool in paradise

Because Muslims will kill them.


50 posted on 04/10/2014 2:21:23 PM PDT by Boogieman
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