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Papyrus Referring to Jesusí Wife Is More Likely Ancient Than Fake, Scientists Say
NY Slimes ^ | 4/10/2014 | Laurie Goodstein

Posted on 04/10/2014 1:54:14 PM PDT by mojito

A faded fragment of papyrus known as the “Gospel of Jesus’s Wife,” which caused an uproar when unveiled by a Harvard Divinity School historian in 2012, has been tested by scientists who conclude in a journal published on Thursday that the ink and papyrus are very likely ancient, and not a modern forgery.

Skepticism about the tiny scrap of papyrus has been fierce because it contained a phrase never before seen in any piece of Scripture: “Jesus said to them, ‘My wife...’ ” Too convenient for some, it also contained the words “she will be able to be my disciple,” a clause that inflamed the debate in some churches over whether women should be allowed to be priests.

The papyrus fragment has now been analyzed by professors of electrical engineering, chemistry and biology at Columbia University, Harvard University and the Massachusetts Institute of Technology, who reported that it resembles other ancient papyri from the fourth to the eighth centuries. (Scientists at the University of Arizona, who dated the fragment to centuries before the birth of Jesus, concluded that their results were unreliable.)

The test results do not prove that Jesus had a wife or disciples who were women, only that the fragment is more likely a snippet from an ancient manuscript than a fake, the scholars agree.

(Excerpt) Read more at ...

TOPICS: History; Religion; Science
KEYWORDS: catholicchurch; epigraphyandlanguage; faithandphilosophy; godsgravesglyphs; gospelofjesuswife; hewasarabbi; hoax; jamescameron; jamesossuary; jesustomb; jesuswife; karenking; letshavejerusalem; losttombofjesus; mariame; mariamne; marymagdalene; rabbismarry; religiousleft; revisionisthistory; sectarianturmoil; simchajacobovici; smashthepatriarchy; talpiot; talpiottomb; waronchristianity; waronhistory; waronreligion; weddingatcana; womenpriests
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To: F15Eagle


41 posted on 04/10/2014 2:15:44 PM PDT by lepton ("It is useless to attempt to reason a man out of a thing he was never reasoned into"--Jonathan Swift)
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To: mojito

Why would it matter?

42 posted on 04/10/2014 2:15:49 PM PDT by bigbob (The best way to get a bad law repealed is to enforce it strictly. Abraham Lincoln)
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To: GeronL
It could just be a really old blasphemy

Odd how they don't include the option that it could be ancient and fake! Because we all know that there weren't any people faking things until Al Gore and Climate scientists. But the most important reason to accept what this clown says is because he's a SCIENTIST! Hell he couldn't possibly be wrong.

43 posted on 04/10/2014 2:16:34 PM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet
Any Bible scholars or practicing Jews: Wouldn’t a rabbi have to have a wife to be taken seriously, or am I misunderstanding the practices back then?

Rabbis did not exist until after the 2nd century Jewish diaspora.

44 posted on 04/10/2014 2:17:31 PM PDT by Rightwing Conspiratr1
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To: mountainlion
Many people were named Jesus.
Yup, like this guy,:

45 posted on 04/10/2014 2:17:45 PM PDT by Impala64ssa (You call me an islamophobe like it's a bad thing.)
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To: mojito

Perhaps even if this is a true historical record it is actually talking about the Church?

46 posted on 04/10/2014 2:18:05 PM PDT by JSDude1 (Defeat Hagan, elect a Constutional Conservative: Dr. Greg Brannon!)
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To: Fido969
Every known printed/written copy of the Bible was created by men with their own agendas and desires.

I do believe that a great deal of it is a result of man's connection to God at some points throughout history. However, until we find a version that undoubtedly could not have been man-made, we should treat it as objectively as any other work.

47 posted on 04/10/2014 2:19:35 PM PDT by varyouga
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To: mojito

Daniel Ratericus narrat: Falsum sed accuratum.

48 posted on 04/10/2014 2:20:04 PM PDT by jtal (Runnin' a World in Need with White Folks' Greed - since 1492)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

I think that, just like today, it was probably customary.

Now, Jesus was called “rabbi”, but that seems to have been a title of respect and not a formal job title. He wasn’t, for example, attached to a particular synagogue, and he didn’t receive formal training under other rabbis, as would have been the custom. So, I don’t think it would be surprising if he didn’t conform to the customs of rabbis in other ways.

49 posted on 04/10/2014 2:20:42 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: a fool in paradise

Because Muslims will kill them.

50 posted on 04/10/2014 2:21:23 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

After the temple was destroyed, yes. But He is called “Rabbi” and teacher in many versions of the New Testament, right?

51 posted on 04/10/2014 2:21:40 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: Gaffer
My concern stems from the fact that this sort of announcement stems not from honest inquiry and historical scholarship, but from a desire to discredit Christianity by fabricating a false history replete with instances of “patriarchal conspiracies” to deny feminists what they think is their due.

I don't know anything about this Prof. King, but her bio doesn't reassure:

“Karen L. King is Hollis Professor of Divinity, Harvard University’s oldest endowed professorship (1721), and is the first woman to hold this chair. Trained in comparative religions and historical studies, she pursues teaching and research specialties in the history of Christianity. Her particular theoretical interests are in discourses of normativity (orthodoxy and heresy), gender studies, and religion and violence.”

52 posted on 04/10/2014 2:21:46 PM PDT by mojito (Zero, our Nero.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

you are missing the point. If Jesus had a wife, there is no reason that it wouldn’t have been mentioned in the early gospels and traditions. There is no theological problem with a married Jesus. The theological problem is that it is trying to prove the Bible, the early church fathers, and the traditions of the church are wrong.

Jesus’ relatives helped run the church in Jerusalem, and were known, but there is no early mention of a wife or kids.

53 posted on 04/10/2014 2:23:17 PM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: Boogieman

I have seen articles that imply that He was trained by rabbis and scholars. We know so little about His childhood and even adulthood until He started His ministry, don’t we?

54 posted on 04/10/2014 2:24:59 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: mojito

I understand and agree. But it still leaves me with the conclusion that whatever implications this revelation (real or fiction) implies, it doesn’t really make any difference to me. I say this because if there was a ‘wife’ I don’t find it impossible to believe that it is a something unnatural, like much of today’s much hyped perversions masquerading as ‘normal.’ It only brings my perception of spirituality closer what is really ‘normal’.

55 posted on 04/10/2014 2:26:05 PM PDT by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: Gaffer

“ is something unnatural...” should be “isn’t” [tripped myself up there].. IOW, man/woman marriage is natural

56 posted on 04/10/2014 2:28:50 PM PDT by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: DManA

Well, I can think of one reason he might have abstained from getting married while he was on earth. After all, he was already engaged.

57 posted on 04/10/2014 2:28:59 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: ari-freedom

Sure, maybe there was some philosopher named Jesus (Yeshu) who was advertising for students sometime around the year 100 A.D. or so, as Greek philosophy was popular in those days. We know that Jewish families back then liked to hire Athenian and Phoenecian expatriates as teachers.

This “Jesus” may have been bragging that women could study with him, as it was fairly unusual for women to study philosophy. Hypatia of Alexandria was a rare example of a famous female philosopher. I reckon that philosophy is just too manly for chicks. Or, sexism.

I would focus on the word ‘disciple’ and what it meant in Greek and in the local culture. It may mean ‘student,’ or something more profound.

Jesus The Christ (Yeshua Hamashiach) did not seem to have much respect for Greeks. See Mark 7:24, et seq.

58 posted on 04/10/2014 2:29:06 PM PDT by Unknowing (Now is the time for all smart little girls to come to the aid of their country.)
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To: PapaNew

Ancient forgery. Gnostic heresy. Something along that line.

59 posted on 04/10/2014 2:31:14 PM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Well, there is no definitive statement about him being trained, but, in the absence of that, I would assume that he wasn’t.

After all, we do know that, as a child, Jesus could stand up in the Temple and hold discourse on the Torah that impressed his elders. So, he apparently had all the knowledge one would expect the author of the Torah to have. Why would he need to be trained by a human with less understanding than he possessed?

60 posted on 04/10/2014 2:32:47 PM PDT by Boogieman
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