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Papyrus Referring to Jesusí Wife Is More Likely Ancient Than Fake, Scientists Say
NY Slimes ^ | 4/10/2014 | Laurie Goodstein

Posted on 04/10/2014 1:54:14 PM PDT by mojito

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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1

After the temple was destroyed, yes. But He is called “Rabbi” and teacher in many versions of the New Testament, right?


51 posted on 04/10/2014 2:21:40 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: Gaffer
My concern stems from the fact that this sort of announcement stems not from honest inquiry and historical scholarship, but from a desire to discredit Christianity by fabricating a false history replete with instances of “patriarchal conspiracies” to deny feminists what they think is their due.

I don't know anything about this Prof. King, but her bio doesn't reassure:

“Karen L. King is Hollis Professor of Divinity, Harvard University’s oldest endowed professorship (1721), and is the first woman to hold this chair. Trained in comparative religions and historical studies, she pursues teaching and research specialties in the history of Christianity. Her particular theoretical interests are in discourses of normativity (orthodoxy and heresy), gender studies, and religion and violence.”

http://gospelofjesusswife.hds.harvard.edu/karen-l-king

52 posted on 04/10/2014 2:21:46 PM PDT by mojito (Zero, our Nero.)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

you are missing the point. If Jesus had a wife, there is no reason that it wouldn’t have been mentioned in the early gospels and traditions. There is no theological problem with a married Jesus. The theological problem is that it is trying to prove the Bible, the early church fathers, and the traditions of the church are wrong.

Jesus’ relatives helped run the church in Jerusalem, and were known, but there is no early mention of a wife or kids.


53 posted on 04/10/2014 2:23:17 PM PDT by LadyDoc (liberals only love politically correct poor people)
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To: Boogieman

I have seen articles that imply that He was trained by rabbis and scholars. We know so little about His childhood and even adulthood until He started His ministry, don’t we?


54 posted on 04/10/2014 2:24:59 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (I will raise $2M for Cruz and/or Palin's next run, what will you do?)
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To: mojito

I understand and agree. But it still leaves me with the conclusion that whatever implications this revelation (real or fiction) implies, it doesn’t really make any difference to me. I say this because if there was a ‘wife’ I don’t find it impossible to believe that it is a something unnatural, like much of today’s much hyped perversions masquerading as ‘normal.’ It only brings my perception of spirituality closer what is really ‘normal’.


55 posted on 04/10/2014 2:26:05 PM PDT by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: Gaffer

“....it is something unnatural...” should be “isn’t” [tripped myself up there].. IOW, man/woman marriage is natural


56 posted on 04/10/2014 2:28:50 PM PDT by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: DManA

Well, I can think of one reason he might have abstained from getting married while he was on earth. After all, he was already engaged.


57 posted on 04/10/2014 2:28:59 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: ari-freedom

Sure, maybe there was some philosopher named Jesus (Yeshu) who was advertising for students sometime around the year 100 A.D. or so, as Greek philosophy was popular in those days. We know that Jewish families back then liked to hire Athenian and Phoenecian expatriates as teachers.

This “Jesus” may have been bragging that women could study with him, as it was fairly unusual for women to study philosophy. Hypatia of Alexandria was a rare example of a famous female philosopher. I reckon that philosophy is just too manly for chicks. Or, sexism.

I would focus on the word ‘disciple’ and what it meant in Greek and in the local culture. It may mean ‘student,’ or something more profound.

Jesus The Christ (Yeshua Hamashiach) did not seem to have much respect for Greeks. See Mark 7:24, et seq.


58 posted on 04/10/2014 2:29:06 PM PDT by Unknowing (Now is the time for all smart little girls to come to the aid of their country.)
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To: PapaNew

Ancient forgery. Gnostic heresy. Something along that line.


59 posted on 04/10/2014 2:31:14 PM PDT by Little Ray (How did I end up in this hand-basket, and why is it getting so hot?)
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To: 2ndDivisionVet

Well, there is no definitive statement about him being trained, but, in the absence of that, I would assume that he wasn’t.

After all, we do know that, as a child, Jesus could stand up in the Temple and hold discourse on the Torah that impressed his elders. So, he apparently had all the knowledge one would expect the author of the Torah to have. Why would he need to be trained by a human with less understanding than he possessed?


60 posted on 04/10/2014 2:32:47 PM PDT by Boogieman
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To: F15Eagle
Find in the Gospels anywhere where Jesus was married.

His bride is the Church. He is her bridegroom.

61 posted on 04/10/2014 2:34:56 PM PDT by Slyfox
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To: Slyfox

Yep


62 posted on 04/10/2014 2:41:10 PM PDT by F15Eagle (1Jn4:15;5:4-5,11-13;Mt27:50-54;Mk15:33-34;Jn3:17-18,6:69,11:25,14:6,20:31;Ro10:8-11;1Tm2:5-6;Ti3:4-7)
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To: mojito

“Ancient” as in “early Medieval” (600-900 A.D.), but “early Medieval” doesn’t have the cachet that “ancient” does. At any rate, it’s a very late document of extremely dubious pedigree.


63 posted on 04/10/2014 2:45:03 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: a fool in paradise
"Why don’t scientists ever discount the tale of Mohammed riding into Heaven on horseback as Islamist holidays approach?"

We know the answer to that - fear, cowardice, and political correctness.
64 posted on 04/10/2014 2:47:16 PM PDT by Steve_Seattle
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To: mojito

I don’t have a problem with Jesus having a wife. The custom was to marry so perhaps he did.


65 posted on 04/10/2014 2:52:50 PM PDT by Marcella (Prepping can save your life today. Going Galt is freedom.)
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To: mojito

You’re right. There were many outlier ‘gospels’ written by some unknown for some unknown reason. No reason to give it any credence.


66 posted on 04/10/2014 3:00:11 PM PDT by Lou Budvis
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To: mojito
a Harvard Divinity School historian

These "historians" believe in man-made global warming BS and sell snake oil calling it "education". Trust them not!

67 posted on 04/10/2014 3:24:59 PM PDT by Rapscallion (Obama is the corruption of America - economic, criminal, judicial, political, sexual, and more)
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To: Rightwing Conspiratr1
Semikhah
68 posted on 04/10/2014 3:38:52 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: F15Eagle

**ancient, and not a modern forgery.**

But that doesn’t make it accurate, does it now?


69 posted on 04/10/2014 3:43:34 PM PDT by Gamecock (If the cross is not foolishness to the lost world then we have misrepresented the cross." S.L.)
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To: mojito

All this demonstrates, if true, is that it was written many centuries ago. I just finished reading an anthology titled, The Lost Bible. It is amazing just how many books were written in the early years of Christianity that were full of nonsense about Jesus and his disciples.


70 posted on 04/10/2014 3:54:16 PM PDT by CdMGuy
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To: Mastador1; Boogieman; morgans

I can’t imagine why they would leave out that option :)


71 posted on 04/10/2014 4:22:04 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: mojito

Gnostic Blasphemy....But then again, those two words are redundant.


72 posted on 04/10/2014 4:22:11 PM PDT by BereanBrain
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To: F15Eagle

Hear, hear!


73 posted on 04/10/2014 4:29:34 PM PDT by avenir (I'm pessimistic about man, but I'm optimistic about GOD!)
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To: mojito

She must’ been otherwise engaged the day they nailed Him to a tree...


74 posted on 04/10/2014 4:44:40 PM PDT by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: varyouga

“Every known printed/written copy of the Bible was created by men with their own agendas and desires.”

Adolescent cop-out.

The Author of Time Who could see every second of it and across all of it, Who SPOKE the world into existence, somehow failed to get the right words to those He wanted to reach?

Idiotic, nonsensical, ridiculous.


75 posted on 04/10/2014 4:54:59 PM PDT by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: TalBlack
“The Author of Time Who could see every second of it and across all of it, Who SPOKE the world into existence, somehow failed to get the right words to those He wanted to reach? Idiotic, nonsensical, ridiculous.”

I believe portions of it were inspired by divine contact and intervention. I believe certain men throughout history earned divine knowledge.

However, I don't believe it was orally retold and transcribed by MEN 100% accurately and truthfully over the several millenia that passed.

I don't believe that He would want us to blindly accept a book written by men as His unfiltered word. ALL men are corrupt and fallen at some level.

76 posted on 04/10/2014 5:13:25 PM PDT by varyouga
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To: mojito

it only confirms that such a document may have existed, and someone” possibly between A.D. 3XX and A.D. 7XX likely produced it

that does not identify who they were or who they might have been or what their beliefs or motivations were

and there were many different “Jesus gospels” written by many different people (all original authors of them unknown) over the centuries

what does the “scientific analysis” about the scrap of parchment CONFIRM, religiously? next to nothing


77 posted on 04/10/2014 5:15:02 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: varyouga
However, I don't believe it was orally retold and transcribed by MEN 100% accurately and truthfully over the several millenia that passed.

God, then, is a failure. He could see to the ‘several millenia’ as easily as anywhere else in Time. The Word is less than useless if it is not THE WORD

78 posted on 04/11/2014 4:32:52 PM PDT by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: TalBlack
“He could see to the ‘several millenia’ as easily as anywhere else in Time.”

I agree with that but believe He is above the limitations of man-made words.

Words or books are all highly simplified interpretations by men who have seen glimpses of what lies beyond.

I do believe many of the core teachings of the Bible are true but it is all man-made interpretation to help us understand these teachings.

There can be no such thing as “God's Word” condensed into a book for He is beyond what can be written in words.

THE WORD simply exists all around us. The Universe itself and EVERYTHING in it is THE WORD. We can only comprehend a fraction of one drop in this ocean. God is NO FAILURE. We are the failure for thinking all the teachings of God's Universe can be condensed into a book.

79 posted on 04/13/2014 5:56:50 AM PDT by varyouga
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To: varyouga

“There can be no such thing as “God’s Word” condensed into a book for He is beyond what can be written in words.

THE WORD simply exists all around us. The Universe itself and EVERYTHING in it is THE WORD.”

You conflate what God wants us to know with His very being. This is pure sophistry that contains a great contradiction: That the Word of God is not true due to an apparent failure of all powerful God but is somehow intelligibly OBJECYIVELY contained in all of Creation; a sign of His Power.

The word of God is then subjective and WHATEVER you want it to be. Which leads me to the conclusion that there is something in the ACTUAL Word of God that you don’t like and wish to deny.


80 posted on 04/13/2014 3:54:15 PM PDT by TalBlack (Evil doesn't have a day job.)
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To: mojito

You state what I was thinking; i.e. Gnostic nonsense. False stories and doctrines began almost immediately both during and after Christ’s death. The Bible tells us that; i.e. calling Jesus a winebibber(SP?) etc.


81 posted on 04/13/2014 4:02:57 PM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: TalBlack

“That the Word of God is not true due to an apparent failure of all powerful God but is somehow intelligibly OBJECYIVELY contained in all of Creation; a sign of His Power.”

No, I’m saying that the Word of God is true and is represented symbolically by everything we perceive to be the Universe. From the specs of dust circling the furthest galaxy all the way to each of us humans.

Each being that is conscious within our Universe has a limited perspective of the entire picture and can only learn/perceive so much in a lifetime. We each have a separated, timed and biased view of something that is actually singular, timeless and perfectly balanced.

We are limited by God’s imposition of time, space, energy and entropy within this Universe. Over time through language and writing, humans were able to condense knowledge gathered over many lifetimes.

The Bible is a fine example of this but it is still man’s imperfect, biased perception of the true Word of God: The Universe itself. God gave us imperfections and individual biases for a higher purpose than we may ever comprehend. The Bible itself is ultimately a human work and still subject to human imperfection.

We are still not done learning, far from it. With all the scientific breakthroughs coming together, we will hear from Him soon.


82 posted on 04/15/2014 8:38:38 PM PDT by varyouga
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Note: this topic was posted 4/10/2014. Thanks mojito.

83 posted on 04/28/2014 5:05:30 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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