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It Doesn’t Matter Where You Go to College: It just matters that you go.
TIME ^ | 04/11/2014 | Michael Bernick

Posted on 04/11/2014 8:46:47 PM PDT by SeekAndFind

This month, high school seniors across America are receiving college decision letters of acceptance and rejection. Many of these students, and their parents, will think that where they go to college will significantly affect their employment future.

They think wrong. Today, whether you go to college retains some importance in your employment options. But where you go to college is of almost no importance. Whether your degree, for example, is from UCLA or from less prestigious Sonoma State matters far less than your academic performance and the skills you can show employers.

Research on the impact of college selection has focused on comparing the earnings of graduates of different colleges. In 1999, economists Alan Krueger and Stacy Berg Dale published a widely-read study that compared the earnings of graduates of elite colleges with those of “moderately selective” schools. The latter group was composed of persons who had been admitted to an elite college but chose to attend another school.

The economists found that the earnings of the two groups 20 years after graduation differed little or not at all. In a larger follow up study, released in 2011 and covering 19,000 college graduates, the economists reached a similar conclusion: Whether you went to University of Penn or Penn State, Williams College or Miami University of Ohio, job outcomes were unaffected in terms of earnings.

(Excerpt) Read more at time.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Education; Society
KEYWORDS: career; college
Navigation: use the links below to view more comments.
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1 posted on 04/11/2014 8:46:48 PM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

What matters more is that you actually have some reason for being there. Most kids don’t.


2 posted on 04/11/2014 8:50:31 PM PDT by WhistlingPastTheGraveyard (The greatest trick the Soviets ever pulled was convincing the world they didn't exist.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Maybe someone can explain the difference between causation and correlation to these college grads.


3 posted on 04/11/2014 8:55:05 PM PDT by St_Thomas_Aquinas ( Isaiah 22:22, Matthew 16:19, Revelation 3:7)
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To: SeekAndFind

It won’t be long before all new jobs are government jobs. The degrees will all count the same.


4 posted on 04/11/2014 8:57:23 PM PDT by boycott
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To: SeekAndFind

I would return my degree and get my money back. My generation was brainwashed into thinking that a degree=success. I do fine financially as my career does not require a degree but when I tried to go further, when I needed it to take me further my BS/BM degree was useless. I would like to see people that run universities in front of Congress under oath to answer for price gouging.

BS/BM is exactly what I got.


5 posted on 04/11/2014 9:00:49 PM PDT by TheArizona
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To: SeekAndFind
It Doesn’t Matter Where You Go to College: It just matters that you go.

In reality this is true ... but, when it comes to your resume, yes it does. Are you a Harvard grand in medicine or a medical grad form bofunk U. ...

6 posted on 04/11/2014 9:02:55 PM PDT by doc1019
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To: SeekAndFind; stylecouncilor; windcliff

Wife and I both had JC Associate of Arts degrees. Both retired prior to 65. Right choices. Strength in marriage. Living as much of the good life that we can help with, but may not be so readily obtainable for our respective grand-kids.


7 posted on 04/11/2014 9:06:55 PM PDT by onedoug
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To: SeekAndFind
Hmmm... it's actually rather funny. Time runs a piece claiming it doesn't matter where one goes to college, only that one goes, justifying this claim with assertions about future earnings in the very same week when The Economist ran a piece arguing just the opposite, and even laying out comparisons between expected earnings in excess of expected earning with only a high-school diploma as an annual return on investment over 20 years.

It turns out getting a degree from U.Virginia has the best return on investment at 17.6% per annum on your tuition dollars (the ones you or your parents pay or borrow -- they based the cost as typical actual cost after scholarship aid, not rack-rate tuition) the Ivies give a yield between 15.1% and 12.1%, while there are colleges at which one would be better off just working with the high school diploma and putting the tuition money in T-bills (places like Moorehead State College with a return on tuition of just 0.6% per annum, or even worse, UNC-Ashville with a return of -0.5% (yes, on average you lose money compared to just hittin the job market out of HS if you got there) or the nadir a tie between Fayetteville State University and Shaw University with a return on tuition investment of -10.6% per annum.

8 posted on 04/11/2014 9:07:23 PM PDT by The_Reader_David (And when they behead your own people in the wars which are to come, then you will know...)
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To: SeekAndFind

I think it’s the area of study that really matters.


9 posted on 04/11/2014 9:08:55 PM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est. New US economy: Fascism on top, Socialism on the bottom.)
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To: SeekAndFind
Speak and write coherently in English and you'll own your own company if you have the ambition.

If you don't have that kind of ambition, you'll get near or to the top of whatever endeavor you undertake.

Learn enough smattering to be interesting and you'll have a ton of friends and acquaintances


Decide first and foremost ... what do you expect of your life.

10 posted on 04/11/2014 9:11:59 PM PDT by knarf (I say things that are true .. I have no proof .. but they're true.)
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To: doc1019

Well, my doctor of internal medicine is a graduate of SUNY Stony Brook School of Medicine.

I know for a fact that he makes over $450,000 a year. One of his colleagues is a graduate of the Ivy league, Columbia University School of Medicine.

Guess what? They make about the same...

I would guess that SUNY’s tuition are way below Columbia’s.


11 posted on 04/11/2014 9:14:20 PM PDT by SeekAndFind (If at first you don't succeed, put it out for beta test.)
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To: SeekAndFind

College is the new junior high school.


12 posted on 04/11/2014 9:15:09 PM PDT by Dalberg-Acton
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To: SeekAndFind

It means a lot about what you take. We don’t need more liberal arts / ethnic studies types. We do need hard science and, particularly, engineers. But then that’s hard and might hurt some student’s self esteem.


13 posted on 04/11/2014 9:16:19 PM PDT by JimSEA
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To: The_Reader_David

I noticed the same article in the Economist. In recent weeks, I think there’s been around two additional articles that really drove home the distant values of various colleges.

What I will also note...is that no one really viewing community colleges, and their value on graduates. The vast number of people out there in the first year of college...ought to really be at some community college...going for a simple two-year degree. They could live out of dad’s house, pay less than $10,000 a year on tuition, and make around the same amount of income as the four-year guy.

I admit....lawyers, scientists, and medical grad’s are in need. But just how many French art experts, ethnic studies gurus, and library science technicians do we really need in America? We are wasting money and time....on degrees with no real value.


14 posted on 04/11/2014 9:16:46 PM PDT by pepsionice
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To: SeekAndFind

You speak of private practice physicians, I speak major hospital recruitment. Different beast. Sorry I didn’t make that clear.


15 posted on 04/11/2014 9:23:18 PM PDT by doc1019
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To: SeekAndFind
If your ‘studies’ included any of the following subjects, it REALLY won't matter where you went - only where you are going. Probably to a call center or behind the counter of a fast food restaurant!

1. “The Phallus”

Occidental College. A seminar in critical theory and social justice, this class examines Sigmund Freud, phallologocentrism and the lesbian phallus.

2. “Queer Musicology”

UCLA. This course welcomes students from all disciplines to study what it calls an “unruly discourse” on the subject, understood through the works of Cole Porter, Pussy Tourette and John Cage.

3. “Taking Marx Seriously”

Amherst College. This advanced seminar for 15 students examines whether Karl Marx still matters despite the countless interpretations and applications of his ideas, or whether the world has entered a post-Marxist era.

4. “Adultery Novel”

University of Pennsylvania. Falling in the newly named “gender, culture and society” major, this course examines novels and films of adultery such as “Madame Bovary” and “The Graduate” through Marxist, Freudian and feminist lenses.

5. “Blackness”

Occidental College. Critical race theory and the idea of “post-blackness” are among the topics covered in this seminar course examining racial identity. A course on whiteness is a prerequisite.

6. “Border Crossings, Borderlands: Transnational Feminist Perspectives on Immigration”

University of Washington. This women studies department offering takes a new look at recent immigration debates in the U.S., integrating questions of race and gender while also looking at the role of the war on terror.

7. “Whiteness: The Other Side of Racism”

Mount Holyoke College. The educational studies department offers this first-year, writing-intensive seminar asking whether whiteness is “an identity, an ideology, a racialized social system,” and how it relates to racism.

8. “Native American Feminisms”

University of Michigan. The women’s studies and American culture departments offer this course on contemporary Native American feminism, including its development and its relation to struggles for land.

9. “’Mail Order Brides?’ Understanding the Philippines in Southeast Asian Context”

Johns Hopkins University. This history course — cross-listed with anthropology, political science and studies of women, gender and sexuality — is limited to 35 students and asks for an anthropology course as a prerequisite.

10. “Cyberfeminism”
Cornell University. Cornell’s art history department offers this seminar looking at art produced under the influence of feminism, post-feminism and the Internet.

11. “American Dreams/American Realities”

Duke University. Part of Duke’s Hart Leadership Program that prepares students for public service, this history course looks at American myths, from “city on the hill” to “foreign devil,” in shaping American history.

12. “Nonviolent Responses to Terrorism”

Swarthmore College. Swarthmore’s “peace and conflict studies” program offers this course that “will deconstruct ‘terrorism’ “ and “study the dynamics of cultural marginalization” while seeking alternatives to violence.

16 posted on 04/11/2014 9:27:18 PM PDT by I cannot think of a name
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To: SeekAndFind

Time.com commits a fallacy in its headline. What does that tell us about going to college?

cum hoc ergo propter hoc? I think it might be.


17 posted on 04/11/2014 9:32:18 PM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: SeekAndFind

I don’t know....if you go to Harvard you’re expected to get away with being an A-hole.


18 posted on 04/11/2014 9:38:41 PM PDT by Aria ( 2008 & 2012 weren't elections - they were coup d'etats.)
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To: knarf

“Speak and write coherently in English and you’ll own your own company if you have the ambition.”

Good point, and you can even make some money by writing papers for business and engineering majors while you are in college. English is the language of MONEY, and if you can write it and say it, you can MAKE it. I just committed a vague pronoun reference, but at least I know that!

There are probably lots of great ideas out lying around, inert, because the progenitor is incapable of communicating the idea. What was once a true education is now “arts and crafts” because liberal idiots were allowed to take over the humanities. Logic, literature, rhetoric, philosophy; all dead. Why would a business leader need those? Gee, I can’t imagine. Oh, and to be able to communicate them with precision? Why, he might have to read something by a good writer to learn that skill!

Sorry, I’m working on terms and conditions for a website, and I can’t believe I’m being paid for something this elementary. Education is dead.


19 posted on 04/11/2014 9:48:46 PM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: cdcdawg

That’s a lie. If you want a high powered career in law, finance, government, academia or journalism, you better go to an Ivy or a handful of other elite schools. Only Harvard, Yale and Princeton are at the top echelon. Not having a degree from one of those three schools places one at a massive handicap for elite career tracks.


20 posted on 04/11/2014 10:08:57 PM PDT by Monmouth78
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To: Monmouth78

There’s some truth to what you say. Those elite schools offer a huge advantage, despite the deficiencies in what they actually teach. Still, those people can be beaten. The world is still what we make it. For now. Sort of. Less so every day in the West. Ugh.


21 posted on 04/11/2014 10:14:23 PM PDT by cdcdawg (Be seeing you...)
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To: SeekAndFind

Maybe for most people. Daughter has her degree from Harvey Mudd College. You can bet that carries a lot more significance with employers than University of Phoenix or some community college or even any state college. Sorry, people, depending on the area you choose to study, sometimes pedigree does matter.


22 posted on 04/11/2014 10:33:58 PM PDT by Hoffer Rand (Bear His image. Bring His message. Be the Church.)
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To: SeekAndFind
First job might be interested in the college, but certainly after that, nobody cares except for the annual begathon as an Alumnus. The reason the first job cares is because they have so much less to base their decision on.
23 posted on 04/11/2014 10:39:20 PM PDT by napscoordinator ( Santorum-Bachmann 2016 for the future of the country!)
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To: boycott

The pensions won’t be though. Actually anybody starting government today is CRAZY. 5.5 percent towards retirement goes off the top immediately….then Thrift Savings, then federal, state, Social Security, medicare (why everyone has to pay that is beyond me), health, dental, vision insurance, life insurance, etc. you may have 20 bucks left.


24 posted on 04/11/2014 10:42:06 PM PDT by napscoordinator ( Santorum-Bachmann 2016 for the future of the country!)
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To: SeekAndFind
Whether your degree, for example, is from UCLA or from less prestigious Sonoma State matters far less than your academic performance and the skills you can show employers.

As a right-eyed, bushy-tailed 17-year-old Freshman at CSUC at Sonoma (as it was called at that time - it became CSU a few years later), I was surrounded by aged hippies - relicts from the 60s, actually - and liberal professors. But it isn't where you are so much as what you get out of it.

Regards,

25 posted on 04/11/2014 11:06:04 PM PDT by alexander_busek (Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence.)
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To: JimSEA
We do need hard science and, particularly, engineers. But then that’s hard and might hurt some student’s self esteem.

And success or failure is measurable and based upon objective reality. IOW, you can't ace the class by regurgitating collectivist drivel spouted by the prof. Liberals need not apply.

26 posted on 04/11/2014 11:12:57 PM PDT by Still Thinking (Freedom is NOT a loophole!)
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To: SeekAndFind

I knew a Personnel Administrator (term used before ‘Human Resources’) who did not pay that much attention to what schools a prospective employee graduated from, when he was hiring and firing for an aeronautics company.
If the prospective employee had all the right credentials, degrees, etc, it mattered not if he/she came from Peedunk U. in the middle of America, instead of perhaps graduating from UCLA.
His boss was totally impressed with Universities, yet rarely knew where most of the (bright) employees graduated. . .

Those from P.U. helped us get to the moon, by golly, and later, got the missiles built and tested, that were used on a fighter jet - - -


27 posted on 04/11/2014 11:18:01 PM PDT by USARightSide (S U P P O R T I N G OUR T R O O P S)
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To: SeekAndFind

Well, not according to the 20-yr ROI of various college in the US:
http://www.economist.com/node/21600212

Not all ‘big names’ give you the best ROI. Mostly because they cost a lot, so their annual return must be bigger as well.


28 posted on 04/11/2014 11:20:21 PM PDT by paudio (Liberals teach Whites about guilt and shame much better than Christian churches do...)
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To: Aria

I know a lawyer who went to Harvard. Conversations with him are predictable. At some point or another he always starts talking about having attended Harvard.
He can walk through a room and people part out of his way like the Red Sea, because they know he wants to talk to them about his matriculation from ...


29 posted on 04/11/2014 11:22:34 PM PDT by tumblindice (Are all Democrats inveterate, habitual liars?)
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To: SeekAndFind

It might not matter as far as your earnings go, but there is a world of difference. It makes a difference to you, to your mind, to your soul. You don’t want to end up in a junior high school with the name of a “college” pasted onto it. Don’t let everything be measured by dollars and cents. Go for the best college you can get into.

Besides, I think Time is wrong.

And I am getting to hate articles filled with statistics.


30 posted on 04/11/2014 11:27:47 PM PDT by firebrand
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To: tumblindice

Unless you are going to college for either the hard sciences or business, the only reason to go to college is for these words only.

” College degree required.”

If you do not have that your chance of getting a decent job today is next to nil.


31 posted on 04/11/2014 11:30:20 PM PDT by EQAndyBuzz ("Heck of a reset there, Hillary")
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To: EQAndyBuzz

Don’t go to college unless you want to go into business or do ‘hard science’ for a living, or want a job that requires a college degree?
If you don’t have a college degree your chances of getting a decent job are nil?
Gee, I dunno. Bill Gates and a lot of other college dropouts might disagree. Mark Steyn never attended college.
A good liberal arts education allows a man to think for himself, to see both sides, to be free.
Try reading ‘ The Trivium.’ Written by a nun and based on Aristotle’s thinking on grammar, logic and rhetoric, it’s all anyone really needs to be a good citizen, as well as a contented, happy person.
And it might help you frame coherent advice.


32 posted on 04/11/2014 11:51:55 PM PDT by tumblindice (Are all Democrats inveterate, habitual liars?)
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To: tumblindice

“Gee, I dunno. Bill Gates and a lot of other college dropouts might disagree. Mark Steyn never attended college.”

IIRC, Bill Gates dropped out of Harvard because he had an invention that was going to revolutionize computing.

A liberal arts education has been watered down so much that Starbucks is being choosy on who they take. Then again, if you have the desire to take womyn’s studies with a minor in Esperanto there are plenty of jobs waiting for that special someone.


33 posted on 04/12/2014 12:24:24 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz ("Heck of a reset there, Hillary")
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To: SeekAndFind

I’ve worked with engineers who were graduates of Cal Tech and CSU Long Beach. On average, the CSU-LB alums were better. Maybe they had more to prove....


34 posted on 04/12/2014 12:32:06 AM PDT by Rummyfan (Iraq: it's not about Iraq anymore, it's about the USA!)
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To: SeekAndFind

The fees doctors charge are highly regulated by the govt.

Try a free market discipline instead or look at the entrepreneurs instead of the saleried people.

For political reasons, salaries for the same job are all about the same.

Not so for earnings of business owners.


35 posted on 04/12/2014 12:35:08 AM PDT by staytrue
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To: JimSEA
We don’t need more liberal arts

I think we could actually use more liberal arts types. Unfortunately the only places teaching liberal arts seems to be Hillsdale College and a few others.

36 posted on 04/12/2014 1:55:59 AM PDT by ALPAPilot
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To: boycott

That pretty much is the case for government jobs now. Degree is a degree is a degree, no matter from where.

It does explain the caliber of most government employees.


37 posted on 04/12/2014 2:57:02 AM PDT by Gaffer (Comprehensive Immigration Reform is just another name for Comprehensive Capitulation)
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To: SeekAndFind

...one Dr graduated from SUNY Stony Brook School of Medicine...the other Columbia University School of Medicine...approximately same earned income....

Do you happen to know which undergrad schools they attended?


38 posted on 04/12/2014 4:14:56 AM PDT by Susquehanna Patriot (U Think Leftist/Liberals Still Believe That Dissent = Highest Form of Patriotism?)
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To: ALPAPilot; JimSEA

Most engineers seem to have had this natural tendency to like to take things apart to see what makes them work, or creatively build or fix things using a combination of materials no one ever thought of using.

Several years ago the Wall Street Journal had an article relating among other things - how challenging engineering is as a discipline (one must have the mindset, mathematical competency, etc) as manufacturing has moved overseas so moved many entry-level engineering jobs, and many young people who had the aptitude to become an engineer, avoided it because they did not want to endure the difficult course of study. Today’s resurgence of manufacturing in middle America should bring more entry level jobs.

As far as liberal arts - they need to be important to science, math, engineering majors. Just like some challenging science and math should be an important part of a liberal arts education. The issue is what is termed Liberal Arts today seems less education and more leftist indoctrination.


39 posted on 04/12/2014 4:37:55 AM PDT by Susquehanna Patriot (U Think Leftist/Liberals Still Believe That Dissent = Highest Form of Patriotism?)
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To: Monmouth78

“Only Harvard, Yale and Princeton are at the top echelon. Not having a degree from one of those three schools places one at a massive handicap for elite career tracks.”

For proof, look at the U.S. Supreme Court.


40 posted on 04/12/2014 4:43:00 AM PDT by Susquehanna Patriot (U Think Leftist/Liberals Still Believe That Dissent = Highest Form of Patriotism?)
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To: SeekAndFind

Personal opinion, what effects your earning potential, and the security that can bring, is not education or lack of education, but rather do you have a marketable skill? In many cases, a marketable skill goes hand in hand with a college degree, e.g, physician, dentist, engineer, teacher, etc. But not always. I have a very good friend who runs a vehicle repair shop. He works on one type of vehicle, Dodge diesel pickup trucks. His education started as diesel mechanic working on tanks in the Army. Learned his skill, keep up on new technology and innovation, delivers a good service at a fair price to his customers and has more work than he can handle. Don’t just get an education, get a skill.


41 posted on 04/12/2014 4:47:17 AM PDT by ops33 (Senior Master Sergeant, USAF (Retired))
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To: doc1019

Do you know what they call the guy who grads last in his class from The American Medical School of the Caribbean?

Doctor.


42 posted on 04/12/2014 5:07:15 AM PDT by ziravan (Choose Sides.)
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To: SeekAndFind

‘It Doesn’t Matter Where You Go to College: It just matters that you go.”

Steve Jobs and Bill Gates might disagree. Neither stayed in college to earn a degree.

In my local business community there are many “millionaires next door” who went to work upon graduation from high school. One started working as a welder apprentice ultimately going out on his own and through hard work building from scratch a large welding company that does major projects requiring steel construction across the region. As the business grew he invested in other businesses and now in his early 50’s is a millionaire many times over. He is an honorable man with a wonderful family and children who are hardworking and motivated.

Another is a member of a minority who started working for McDonalds in high school and today owns multiple fast food franchises. Again, hard work and reinvesting earnings to build the business resulted in success.

Other successful non-college grads I know own HVAC companies, auto dealerships, construction companies, cabinet shops, automobile repair and tire shops.

For all of these individuals the secrets to success were simple:
1) Highly moral and ethical people. Their word is their bond. They only engage in business deals where both sides win and they always deliver on their promises.
2) They believe in personal accountability. The “product” they produce is high quality and consistent. Customers can rely on them. When something goes wrong they take care of the problem, often when the customer is in the wrong.
3) In the beginning they worked brutal schedules for little money.
4) They’ve always lived below their means. When they achieve wealth they live modestly and continue to work hard.
5) They hire good people, expect a lot out of them, and treat them well. This means treating them with respect as well as paying them well.
6) Families are important. They stay married to the same spouse. Their children are well behaved and work hard on the family business in menial jobs. They set extremely high expectations for their children.
7) They educate themselves. They are naturally inquisitive and take advantage of opportunities to learn from people they meet, their employees, competitors, and their suppliers. They read voraciously.
8) They are optimistic. When beaten down they pick up the pieces and drive forward.

None of the character traits listed above are taught in college today.


43 posted on 04/12/2014 5:10:29 AM PDT by Soul of the South (Yesterday is gone. Today will be what we make of it.)
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To: SeekAndFind

Get thee to a nunnery.


44 posted on 04/12/2014 6:02:55 AM PDT by Rodamala
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To: SeekAndFind

Just a technical correction....its called Columbia University College of Physcians & Surgeons. ;-)


45 posted on 04/12/2014 6:47:51 AM PDT by bjorn14 (Woe to those who call good evil and evil good. Isaiah 5:20)
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To: Gaffer

That pretty much is the case for government jobs now. Degree is a degree is a degree, no matter from where.

It does explain the caliber of most government employees.


There are a lot of traditionally black colleges and universities in the southeast. They have available financing (via taxpayers) for anyone that can breathe. If they can breathe for 4 years, they get out with a degree.

When it comes to government jobs, the values their degree is equal to those with real degrees. This certainly applies to teaching jobs too.

I have nightmares thinking what’s going to happen to our healthcare system. When it comes to single-payer, the government won’t care if the doctor graduated from Duke or Alabama A&M or Johns Hopkins University or Alcorn State. We also know the government likes quotas.

These folks will be our doctors and the government will decide which ones you get to see. I guess I need to try to have a better outlook.


46 posted on 04/12/2014 7:45:24 AM PDT by boycott
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To: boycott

Plus the government will bring in the doctors(preferably female) from Bangladesh. He/she will have studied anatomy on a dog in a tent. “Their guiding philosophy being what is the sound one hand makes when it claps?” God help us.


47 posted on 04/12/2014 7:50:07 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: SeekAndFind

Pretty much, 2 years at community college opened every door I ever needed.


48 posted on 04/12/2014 7:50:58 AM PDT by discostu (Call it collect, call it direct, call it TODAY!)
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To: AEMILIUS PAULUS

The thought is very scary but we know how the system works.


49 posted on 04/12/2014 7:52:20 AM PDT by boycott
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To: SeekAndFind

I do not have a college degree, but I was trained in electronics by the Navy. The lack of a degree led to many closed doors, but I suspect those were mostly doors I would have regretted entering.

I tried to go back and earn an Engineering degree at age 39. While I really enjoyed the higher math classes, the rest was filler nonsense that colleges require solely to pad tuition income. I lasted 2 1/2 semesters before the BS wore me out at the same time someone offered me a good-paying job, right out of the blue.

What I really learned in college was that most college kids are ignorant, lazy, irresponsible morons. And college faculty are mostly cocooned from reality. And it’s not an environment that is easy for adults to suffer.


50 posted on 04/12/2014 8:05:16 AM PDT by EricT. (Everything not forbidden is compulsory.)
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