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Desert Tortoise vs. Grazing Cattle
CS Monitor ^ | Feb 12, 1992 | Daniel B. Wood

Posted on 04/16/2014 9:43:34 PM PDT by Ray76

"In letters last week to ranchers across Nevada, the federal agency has mandated removal of cattle from 1.7 million acres of public lands from March 1 to June 14."

"...conservationists call tortoises an "indicator" species, holding that if the animal is having a hard time surviving for some reason, other animals are as well. "It may be there will be no effect, and we can all go back to business as usual," says Slone.

But ranchers say they cannot pick up the pieces after a half decade and start again. "I will go belly up," says Kelly Jensen, whose family has ranched here for three generations."

"Part of the dispute between ranchers and BLM officials concerns the reasons for dwindling tortoise populations in the West.

"In five years, we will better be able to demonstrate the effects [on tortoises] of grazing," says Slone [Sid Slone, chief biologist for the BLM's Las Vegas district].

Having shown that tortoise populations have dropped 90 percent in the last 50 years - and in some areas of the Mojave declining 50 percent in seven years - environmentalists were able to get the tortoise emergency status on the federal list of endangered species in 1989."

"[Mr. Connelley (president of the Nevada Cattleman's Association)] says studies have shown that the tortoise numbers reached their height in the 1960s when livestock numbers were at their height because tortoises thrive on cow manure."

(Excerpt) Read more at csmonitor.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: blm; bundy; bundyranch
GO GET IT & SAVE PAGE NOW BEFORE IT DISAPPEARS.
1 posted on 04/16/2014 9:43:34 PM PDT by Ray76
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To: Ray76

Tortoises are an “indicator” species - the entire tortoise predicate is lie stacked upon lie.


2 posted on 04/16/2014 9:45:13 PM PDT by Ray76 (Take over the GOP? You still beg! Forget them. Second Party Now.)
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To: Ray76

Tortoises and cattle have lived together on that land for over 100 years. What is another 5 years supposed to prove?


3 posted on 04/16/2014 9:48:59 PM PDT by Hugin
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To: Ray76

This tortoise spends 8 months out of the year in their hole sleeping.

No WONDER the Democrat gov’t. loves it so much - it fits their voter base.


4 posted on 04/16/2014 9:49:46 PM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
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To: Hugin

Back in the day I would hunt rabbit and grouse. Both had their natural population cycles of boom and bust (4 and 6 years or something.) It would not surprise me if this tortoise is similar - but with a cycle a lot longer due to their lifespan.


5 posted on 04/16/2014 9:52:16 PM PDT by 21twelve (http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2185147/posts 2013 is 1933 REBORN)
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To: Ray76

If someone could wipe out the darn things, this would no longer be an issue.


6 posted on 04/16/2014 9:55:12 PM PDT by MNDude
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To: Ray76

http://www.westernwatersheds.org/news_media/press/press_2002/press11_2002.pdf


7 posted on 04/16/2014 9:55:58 PM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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To: Ray76

Is there any business this administration isn’t trying to ruin? Most blatantly anti business, anti self reliance administration ever.


8 posted on 04/16/2014 9:57:03 PM PDT by ThunderSleeps (Stop obarma now! Stop the hussein - insane agenda!)
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To: Ray76
Ranchers need to be paid by the BLM for having their cattle acquire and spread water and food to the tortoises across the not so otherwise fruited plain.

The BLM are being useful retards here.

9 posted on 04/16/2014 9:58:56 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Jim Robinson; B4Ranch; Nachum; Paladin2; E. Pluribus Unum; combat_boots; Iron Munro; ponygirl; ...

Ping


10 posted on 04/16/2014 10:00:56 PM PDT by Ray76 (Take over the GOP? You still beg! Forget them. Second Party Now.)
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To: MNDude

That sounds like the Dingy (Rustler) Reid position.


11 posted on 04/16/2014 10:02:57 PM PDT by Paladin2
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To: Paladin2

They’ve been so concerned about the tortoises that they killed hundreds of them prior to this kabuki kow theater.


12 posted on 04/16/2014 10:04:31 PM PDT by Salamander (Agent Of Fortune)
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"Several organizations hold that the dramatic losses in tortoises are due to a respiratory disease, exacerbated in part by the release of captive tortoises into the wild."
13 posted on 04/16/2014 10:06:47 PM PDT by Ray76 (Take over the GOP? You still beg! Forget them. Second Party Now.)
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To: Ray76

The Nature Conservancy:

“Clark County’s Short-Term Desert Tortoise Habitat Conservation Plan (HCP) was a landmark mitigation agreement developed by The Nature Conservancy and other conservation partners to assure the preservation of the desert tortoise while allowing development in the Las Vegas Valley to continue.”

“The Las Vegas Valley provides crucial habitat for the desert tortoise, but had been facing powerful development pressure from Las Vegas, which was one of the fastest-growing cities in the United States for many years.
Partners”

“Formally approved by the USFWS in August 1991, the HCP permitted 22,352 acres of development to occur in the Las Vegas Valley in exchange for the establishment of a 400,000-acre desert tortoise preserve. Earlier, in a related action, the Conservancy helped settle a major lawsuit over the listing of the species, which has resulted in over $1 million being allocated to desert tortoise research.”

http://www.nature.org/ourinitiatives/regions/northamerica/unitedstates/nevada/placesweprotect/desert-tortoise-habitat-conservation-plan.xml


14 posted on 04/16/2014 10:15:14 PM PDT by Ray76 (Take over the GOP? You still beg! Forget them. Second Party Now.)
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To: Ray76

Ha Ha. Please note that the widdle tortoise was supposed to face extinction by the year 2000. Didn’t I just read on another thread, that they have adapted and are doing so well that there’s too many and the Gmen are killing off the extras?


15 posted on 04/16/2014 10:19:51 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: Ray76
Thanks for the ping.

So it looks like they started this the year before B.J. Clinton stepped into the Oral Office.

16 posted on 04/16/2014 10:22:46 PM PDT by ponygirl (Be Breitbart.)
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To: Ray76
Wouldn't you think that they would know that cow pattie actually improve the soil?

That's why so many gardeners add it to their gardens. Improves the structure and the nutrition.

If BLM was really managing the land, they wouldn't have so much dessert, they would have just used the cow poop to transform part of the area into lush fields of green.

The ranchers could have given them the cow poop instead of fees. That poop costs a lot at garden centers.

Now that gives me an idea. How about the Bundy’s just gather up all the cow poop they can find everywhere on the range, weigh it, and figure out the value and pay off the so called fees by delivering great big loads right to the BLM’s front door.

Now that there would be a real crowd pleaser. Wouldn't you just love to see the BLM Chief's expression?

17 posted on 04/16/2014 10:31:28 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: Ray76

Clark County’s Short-Term Desert Tortoise Habitat Conservation Plan was an agreement developed by The Nature Conservancy.

Tortoises an “indicator” species, holding that if the animal is having a hard time surviving for some reason, other animals are as well.

“Losses in tortoises are due to a respiratory disease, exacerbated in part by the release of captive tortoises into the wild.”

It’s fair to say that Clark County’s Short-Term Desert Tortoise Habitat Conservation Plan was predicated upon a misconception.


18 posted on 04/16/2014 10:31:56 PM PDT by Ray76 (Take over the GOP? You still beg! Forget them. Second Party Now.)
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To: Ray76
http://oath-keepers.blogspot.com/

They are seeking people to come help with a rotating watch...

PLease share.

19 posted on 04/16/2014 10:32:14 PM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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To: MarMema

oathkeepers.org


20 posted on 04/16/2014 10:36:44 PM PDT by Ray76 (Take over the GOP? You still beg! Forget them. Second Party Now.)
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To: Hugin

Another five years will get rid of most ranchers if not all. Imagine being asked to close any business for five years and act as though that is a reasonable request.

Radical environmentalists do not want a single cow to live anywhere on earth. They do not care who owns the land, do not care about anything except they hate cows and the people that have them. They have been using every excuse they can to get rid of every rancher and cow for about the last 40 years. They have claimed everything from damage to land, to endangered fish, turtles, you name it they have claimed it. They have many times filed lawsuits against the Forest Service and the BLM any time those agencies tried to do anything that would support the rancher or grazing leases. I bet if someone would dig into it they would find where the BLM has had several lawsuits filed against them over the Bundy issues by environmental groups and possible individuals.

We have also reached a point where most people do not have a clue where their food comes from other than Walmart. They seem to have no concern that the government is putting the people out of business that raise/harvest our food. Those that produce our food are being persecuted, from fisheries, ranches, farms...you name it our food supply is under attack, so no matter what food you eat or don’t eat, those that produce it are being regulated out of business on the whim of people who don’t have a clue.


21 posted on 04/16/2014 10:53:26 PM PDT by Tammy8
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To: Tammy8

Every year more and more of my food comes from my backyard. I don’t care to eat stuff from China in particular, but who knows what any of the producers are doing these days.

If I buy stuff, I try to buy it locally if possible.


22 posted on 04/16/2014 11:01:37 PM PDT by greeneyes (Moderation in defense of your country is NO virtue. Let Freedom Ring.)
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To: Tammy8
Radical environmentalists do not want a single cow to live anywhere on earth. They do not care who owns the land, do not care about anything except they hate cows and the people that have them. They have been using every excuse they can to get rid of every rancher and cow for about the last 40 years. They have claimed everything from damage to land, to endangered fish, turtles, you name it they have claimed it.

You forgot the big one: Global warming is caused by hamburgers.

23 posted on 04/16/2014 11:05:14 PM PDT by samtheman
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To: Ray76

I have not been able to get that site to come up.


24 posted on 04/16/2014 11:40:29 PM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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To: Tammy8
Radical environmentalists do not want a single cow to live anywhere on earth. They do not care who owns the land, do not care about anything except they hate cows and the people that have them. They have been using every excuse they can to get rid of every rancher and cow for about the last 40 years.

Either that or the Chinese are calling in some debt

25 posted on 04/16/2014 11:41:40 PM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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To: MarMema; Ray76

Yeah, Big Brother has hit the Oathkeepers site today. They’ve also attacked Pete Santilli’s Pay Pal account, and weird stuff was happening during his broadcast the past two days. One time he was kicked completely offline and had to reboot.


26 posted on 04/16/2014 11:54:36 PM PDT by ponygirl (Be Breitbart.)
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To: ponygirl

Seriously? I was hoping it was just coincidental.


27 posted on 04/16/2014 11:58:01 PM PDT by MarMema (Run Ted Run)
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To: MarMema

Yeah I noticed that myself although that is the “official” site.

I posted only for FYI.


28 posted on 04/16/2014 11:59:24 PM PDT by Ray76 (Take over the GOP? You still beg! Forget them. Second Party Now.)
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To: ponygirl

OK&CSPOA need non-infrastructure comms (no cell phones etc). I’m sure they have that covered.


29 posted on 04/17/2014 12:05:22 AM PDT by Ray76 (Take over the GOP? You still beg! Forget them. Second Party Now.)
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To: ponygirl

Bundy family et al need to be VERY careful.

A “friend” will get close. A trusted “friend” possibly delivering food or supplies. The “friend” will wait for the moment and then draw down on them.

People are arrested with this technique.

Have an ace in the hole. Always.


30 posted on 04/17/2014 12:21:50 AM PDT by Ray76 (Take over the GOP? You still beg! Forget them. Second Party Now.)
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To: ponygirl

Or two. Or three.

Surprise!


31 posted on 04/17/2014 12:29:02 AM PDT by Ray76 (Take over the GOP? You still beg! Forget them. Second Party Now.)
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To: Jim Robinson; B4Ranch; Nachum; combat_boots; Iron Munro; ponygirl
Bundy family et al need to be VERY careful.

A “friend” will get close. A trusted “friend” possibly delivering food or supplies. The “friend” will wait for the moment and then draw down on them.

People are arrested with this technique.

The Browns were arrested by undercover officers, who were invited by the Browns into the Brown residence on the evening of Thursday, October 4, 2007. "Before the couple realized they weren't supporters, they were already under arrest." A local television station quoted U.S. Marshal Monier as saying: "Ultimately, this open-door policy that they seemed to have which allowed the Browns to have some supporters bring them supplies, welcome followers and even host a picnic—this proved to be their undoing… They invited us in. We escorted them out."
Have an ace in the hole. Always.

Or two. Or three.

Surprise!

32 posted on 04/17/2014 12:52:55 AM PDT by Ray76 (Take over the GOP? You still beg! Forget them. Second Party Now.)
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To: Ray76

The tortoises *eat* cow dung. 90% water, balance protein.

(Ignore the whackjob source, they cite a reputable ecologist)

http://www.infowars.com/report-desert-tortoise-greatly-benefits-from-bundys-cattle-grazing/


33 posted on 04/17/2014 1:00:14 AM PDT by Royal Wulff
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To: Ray76

Desert Tortoise.. you should see what they do at Fort Irwin for these things.... Its insane:

When you’re on Fort Irwin Road (20+ miles one way in), or exploring the desert. Hitting a desert tortoise could cost you a $50,000 fine and a year in jail!

Tortoise Relocating

In one part of the translocation process, Dr. Kritin Berry was in charge of moving 158 tortoises in March 2008:

By December 2008, 43 tortoises were dead or dying and 15 were missing.
By December 2009, 27 more tortoises died, and 20 were missing. The death rate so far was 44.7%.
In January 2010 only 68 tortoises were alive, 20 missing.
8 died in 2010 up to August, and a total of 23 missing; the mortality rate was 11.6%.
The grand total of all years was 49% dead by August, and 23 missing (where often a predator tore off the radio transmitter).

Dr. Berry stated that this was a very high death rate, mostly due to coyote and raven predation. Drought years such as 2007 exacerbated coyote predation. Even adult tortoises were being killed by ravens flipping the reptiles over and pecking at their cloaca and hindlegs. Feral dogs also are a problem. Two tortoises were killed by vehicles on dirt roads. One tortoise was bitten by a rattlesnake, and another was killed by a Golden eagle. A few died of hyperthermia (over-heating). One died of gout.


34 posted on 04/17/2014 2:26:04 AM PDT by maddog55 (I'd be Pro-Choice if we could abort liberals.)
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To: Ray76

A very thinly veiled attempt to reduce our beef supply.


35 posted on 04/17/2014 3:41:06 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: R. Scott

“..........studies have shown that the tortoise numbers reached their height in the 1960s when livestock numbers were at their height because tortoises thrive on cow manure.”........

“Tortoises thrive on cow manure”? Great, I have an idea that will save those critters. Round the tortoises up and send them to Washington where they will live in a life of luxury. Lots of “BS” is generated there.


36 posted on 04/17/2014 3:57:00 AM PDT by DaveA37
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To: Progov

Yep!


37 posted on 04/17/2014 4:09:16 AM PDT by R. Scott (Humanity i love you because when you're hard up you pawn your Intelligence to buy a drink)
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To: maddog55
one died of gout

Too much time at the Desert Deli.

38 posted on 04/17/2014 4:26:54 AM PDT by Mountain Bike Vomit Carnage (Not my circus, not my monkeys.)
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To: Ray76

” studies have shown that the tortoise numbers reached their height in the 1960s when livestock numbers were at their height because tortoises thrive on cow manure.”

Makes sense. Most environmentalists are just looking for ways to tear down progress and civilization.
Facts are inconvenient things to them.


39 posted on 04/17/2014 5:37:35 AM PDT by HereInTheHeartland (Obama lied; our healthcare died.)
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To: Tammy8

Well said. I agree completely.


40 posted on 04/17/2014 7:13:42 AM PDT by Hugin
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To: Ray76
“The most complete data is from the Beaver Dam Mountains. Woodbury and Hardy reported a tortoise population density of 150 per square mile in 1948. BLM reduced cattle grazing a few years later and eliminated cattle in 1970. Coombs reported a tortoise density of 39 per square mile in 1974. In these 26 years cattle use was reduced 100 percent and tortoise numbers were reduced 74 percent.

“These tortoises were doing so poorly a veterinarian, Dr. Jarchow, was consulted. He reported all six specimens were suffering from osteoporosis caused by a protein deficiency in their diet. Dr. Jarchow examined five specimens from the same mountains that shared their range with cattle. He reported these specimens were all healthy and well nourished.

“The historical record proves conclusively that tortoise thrive when cattle are on the range with them and without cattle grazing they are always malnourished and unhealthy and their numbers plummet.

http://www.vinsuprynowicz.com/?p=80


41 posted on 04/17/2014 7:57:55 AM PDT by B4Ranch (Name your illness, do a Google & YouTube search with "hydrogen peroxide". Do it and be surprised.)
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To: Hugin

The tortoises thrive with grazing cattle.

It’s the solar plant that can’t thrive with grazing cattle.


42 posted on 04/17/2014 7:59:19 AM PDT by MrB (The difference between a Humanist and a Satanist - the latter admits whom he's working for)
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To: MrB

Nice summation.


43 posted on 04/17/2014 8:48:10 AM PDT by Ray76 (Take over the GOP? You still beg! Forget them. Second Party Now.)
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