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How Top Spies in Ukraine Changed the Nation's Path [2005 NYTimes article]
The New York Times ^ | 1/17/2005 | C.J. Chivers

Posted on 05/03/2014 7:28:40 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen

KIEV, Ukraine, Jan. 16 - As protests here against a rigged presidential election overwhelmed the capital last fall, an alarm sounded at Interior Ministry bases outside the city. It was just after 10 p.m. on Nov. 28.

More than 10,000 troops scrambled toward trucks. Most had helmets, shields and clubs. Three thousand carried guns. Many wore black masks. Within 45 minutes, according to their commander, Lt. Gen. Sergei Popkov, they had distributed ammunition and tear gas and were rushing out the gates.

Kiev was tilting toward a terrible clash, a Soviet-style crackdown that could have brought civil war. And then, inside Ukraine's clandestine security apparatus, strange events began to unfold.

While wet snow fell on the rally in Independence Square, an undercover colonel from the Security Service of Ukraine, or S.B.U., moved among the protesters' tents. He represented the successor agency to the K.G.B., but his mission, he said, was not against the protesters. It was to thwart the mobilizing troops. He warned opposition leaders that a crackdown was afoot.

Simultaneously, senior intelligence officials were madly working their secure telephones, in one instance cooperating with an army general to persuade the Interior Ministry to turn back.

The officials issued warnings, saying that using force against peaceful rallies was illegal and could lead to prosecution and that if ministry troops came to Kiev, the army and security services would defend civilians, said an opposition leader who witnessed some of the exchanges and Oleksander Galaka, head of the military's intelligence service, the G.U.R., who made some of the calls.

...

(Excerpt) Read more at nytimes.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Conspiracy
KEYWORDS: agitprop; crimea; evilempire; ibtz; neosovietsonfr; nwo; putinsbuttboys; russianimperialism; russianinvasion; russianoccupation; ukraine
NY Times reported in 2005 that at the highest levels, Ukraine's SBU was working with the West.

Much longer article, interesting read.

The article paints a picture that the involvement of the West was purely benevolent, so one can take its conclusions, both express and implied, with a grain of salt, of course.

The main point of evidence, IMHO, is that Ukraine's intelligence service, the SBU, was reportedly working with the West towards an implicit entry into the EU as far back as 2005, a full 8 years ago.

The classic case of being turned into a tool, of course, is Yulia Tymoshenko, but all the leading business figures followed the same path: being in the right place at the right time in their life to make the most of the privatization in the 1990's, from college education, to a seeming entrepreneurial opportunity, to doing God knows what to gain monopolistic advantage, extensively working with, no doubt being taught much by, Western business and political figures, while simultaneously courting Russia to work that end of the trade deals.

The "power people" of Ukraine all along implicitly agreed to whatever the powers that be in the West had in store for Ukraine, which was simply assumed to be headed in a good direction.

Certainly, based on the mythology created by new world order's news media, historians, entertainment media, schools, etc., that could be said to be the case - if the mythology were only true.

Instead, of course, we have the "man behind the curtain", a la the Wizard of Oz, the financial elites who pull the puppet strings in America, in a steady march towards a Fabian, totalitarian state; they do this in the same manner as Fabian elites do in every nation where they've gained behind the scenes de facto control of the institutions that control society. Subvert morals, corrupt and control politicians, use subsequent government power to solidify their monopolies, become the leading vendors to government, increase government spending in their own direction, pay little to no taxes, be the banking syndicate which government borrows from, gain control over the nations money creation via their control of central banking, etc.

1 posted on 05/03/2014 7:28:40 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen
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To: Absolutely Nobama; Alex Murphy; alpo; Army Air Corps; azishot; B4Ranch; bigbob; B.O. Plenty; ...

Ping.


2 posted on 05/03/2014 7:29:51 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
A few other interesting lines from the article...

Far behind the scenes, Col. Gen. Ihor P. Smeshko, the S.B.U. chief, was coordinating several of the contacts, according to Maj. Gen. Vitaly Romanchenko, leader of the military counterintelligence department, who said that on the spy chief's orders he warned General Popkov to stop. The Interior Ministry called off its alarm.

Details of these exchanges, never before reported, provide insight into a hidden factor in the so-called Orange Revolution, the peaceful protests that overturned an election and changed the political course of a post-Soviet state.

Throughout the crisis an inside battle was waged by a clique of Ukraine's top intelligence officers, who chose not to follow the plan by President Leonid D. Kuchma's administration to pass power to Prime Minister Viktor F. Yanukovich, the president's chosen successor. Instead, these senior officers, known as the siloviki, worked against it.

Such a position is a rare occurrence in former Soviet states, where the security agencies have often been the most conservative and ruthless instruments of state power.

Interviews with people involved in these events - opposition leaders, chairmen of three intelligence agencies and several of their senior officers, Mr. Kuchma, a senior Western diplomat, members of Parliament, the interior minister and commander of the ministry's troops - offer a view of the siloviki's work.

The officers funneled information to Mr. Kuchma's rivals, provided security to opposition figures and demonstrations, sent choreographed public signals about their unwillingness to follow the administration's path and engaged in a psychological tug-of-war with state officials to soften responses against the protests.

Ultimately, the intelligence agencies worked - usually in secret, sometimes in public, at times illegally - to block the fraudulent ascension of Mr. Yanukovich, whom several of the generals loathe. Directly and indirectly, their work supported Viktor A. Yushchenko, the Western-oriented candidate who is now the president-elect.

Many factors that sustained the revolution that formed around Mr. Yushchenko are well known. They include Western support, the protesters' resolve, cash from wealthy Ukrainians, coaching by foreign activists who had helped topple presidents in Georgia and Serbia, the unexpected independence of the Supreme Court and cheerleading by a television station, Channel 5, which Mr. Kuchma never shut down.

Each influenced the outcome to various degrees. None by itself seems decisive. The full extent of the siloviki's role is unknown, although Oleg Ribachuk, Mr. Yushchenko's chief of staff, called it "a very important element" that aided the opposition "professionally and systemically."

"They were doing this like a preventive operation," he said.

3 posted on 05/03/2014 7:31:51 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Ukraine didn’t need any encouragement to go in Europe’s direction and away from Russia, that would be a natural move for any country truly interested in freedom and progress.

You have a problem with Ukraine choosing its own destiny?


4 posted on 05/03/2014 7:34:30 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: canuck_conservative
You have a problem with Ukraine choosing its own destiny?

Funny thing to say a day or so after the unelected EU president declares that he doesn't care if eastern European nations want to be in the EU or not because they're going to be anyway.
5 posted on 05/03/2014 7:38:05 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: canuck_conservative
You have a problem with Ukraine choosing its own destiny?

That's a straw man argument, in an astoundingly obvious way.

Would anyone like to explain why ?
6 posted on 05/03/2014 7:43:21 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
Van Rompuy: If The Public Doesn`t Want EU Expansion, 'WE DO IT ANYWAY
7 posted on 05/03/2014 7:43:34 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: PieterCasparzen

It’s a simple yes or no question.

When you deflect like that, people tend to think your answer is “no”.


8 posted on 05/03/2014 7:58:18 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: canuck_conservative
You have a problem with Ukraine choosing its own destiny?

Anyone ? Anyone ? Bueller ?

That's a straw man argument because I never claimed that Ukraine should not choose its own destiny.

It's astoundingly obvious because my argument is against outside influence.

The part you perhaps don't like is that I'm not only against outside Russian influence, I'm also against outside US and EU influence.

In the post:

Ukraine didn’t need any encouragement to go in Europe’s direction and away from Russia, that would be a natural move for any country truly interested in freedom and progress.

given the state of affairs in the early 1990's, that's certainly true at face value. However, the statement carries with it an implication that all initiation of Ukraine's interaction with the West came from within Ukraine, and the West sat idly by, doing absolutely nothing to influence Ukrainian politics prior to Ukraine's self-generated request. And the implication is also that the West confined it's actions to purely what the Ukrainians requested and no more. Given the lack of knowledge of Western business and goverment practices inside Ukraine at the time, the appeal for assistance would of course had to have been almost entirely open-ended.

What has been documented - proudly - by organizations like the US-Ukraine Business Council and the US-Ukraine Foundation is that the West essentially schooled many individuals in leadership positions in Ukraine in everything from insurance to agriculture to parliamentary procedure and law, in addition to providing billions of dollars in financing. That is to say, regardless of who technically made the first phone call, the scope and magnitude of Western "assistance" served to develop a whole generation of Western-thinking Ukrainian leadership, as well as the organizations and strategies and techniques to back them up. Given that, one can only surmise that in the 1990's, those (often young) Ukrainians who sought to climb the ladder of success unknowingly opened the door for Western control and loss of national sovereignty.
9 posted on 05/03/2014 8:29:58 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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10 posted on 05/03/2014 8:31:56 AM PDT by RedMDer (May we always be happy and may our enemies always know it. - Sarah Palin, 10-18-2010)
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One can count on Chivers to parrot the Neo-Soviet party line.

Chivers won the 2007 Golden Verb award for excellence from MediaSoyuz, a Russian journalism society, for coverage of Chechnya
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C._J._Chivers#2007

Journalist C.J. Chivers doubts that chemical weapons are being used in the Syrian civil war.
http://thecolbertreport.cc.com/videos/ur1l6x/c-j—chivers


11 posted on 05/03/2014 8:39:58 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: PieterCasparzen

I don’t get your point.

You’re pissed because people in Ukraine like modern Europe and want to associate with them? You think they’ve been brainwashed, and wouldn’t choose to go that way otherwise?

And don’t pretend Russia didn’t try to influence Ukraine also. The “influence” argument is going nowhere.


12 posted on 05/03/2014 8:42:33 AM PDT by canuck_conservative
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To: PieterCasparzen

There is a lot of manipulation from all sides in Ukraine.

My only primary concern is that we stay the hell out of that mess. As far as they’re concerned, I don’t see any way they survive as an intact single nation. I see the west leaning toward the EU, the east leaning toward Russia, and a handful in the middle leaning toward independence from both.


13 posted on 05/03/2014 8:47:47 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: canuck_conservative
You have a problem with Ukraine choosing its own destiny?

Yes, I do.

Like they know what they want.

They should elect me, I know better than them what they want.

14 posted on 05/03/2014 8:52:55 AM PDT by Lazamataz (Early 2009 to 7/21/2013 - RIP my little girl Cathy. You were the best cat ever. You will be missed.)
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To: Lazamataz

Only hot Ukrainian chicks allowed to stay?


15 posted on 05/03/2014 8:55:53 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Have you ever heard about personnel people discussing the “wise old owls” in organizations. Most takeover companies remove all of them, because they understand how everything works and will work quietly behind the scenes to subvert all change the new owners want to make?

It applies to nations as well as companies.

National Spooks are like this. They “know things” and relationships. And know how to quietly work behind the scenes to use that knowledge. For good or bad.

If the right ones in the US decide it is time to use that skill, Obozo will be totally exposed. I beg them now, It Is Time!


16 posted on 05/03/2014 10:52:03 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!)
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To: Texas Fossil

Espionage has been run by “the financial elites” for centuries.

The founders of our CIA are all the highest level operatives of the “old money” of the so-called “eastern establishment”, which is globalism, a.k.a., new world order.

Long ago international financiers learned that in lending to governments, espionage was an essential field of which to be fully in control.

They need the goods on every politician so they can control them. The espionage guys can get the goods.

They also need to be able to create national security problems to create massive government spending, which then requires government borrowing from their banking syndicate. Full control of the espionage “business” (and top diplomatic circles) is thus required.

Espionage is so important to elite international financiers that it’s one of the fields that is mostly kept “in the family”, i.e., the top jobs and the most trust will only be given to minions that are married into the families that are the most loyal minions for generations. While the Bush family and Dulles family are notable, it’s quite common to see espionage / diplomatic / finance families “serve” in these capacities and overlap in them for generations.

The espionage leadership, therefore, will never go against the globalist masters; that’s who they’ve been working for all along.

Obozo, like all US Presidents, is in office because the elites want him there.

And, next election, like all of them, the tickets will be what the elites want them to be. And the election will proceed as they plan it. They’re kind of annoyed now; they planned on having a Rockefeller-Repub win, so they could pretend they were adjusting Obamacare, revive the NSA, give conservatives a breather in the illusion that they “won”, etc., but Krispy Kreme sabotaged his own career. And YAB (yet another Bush) Jeb has all the appeal of a donkey at the Kentucky Derby.


17 posted on 05/03/2014 11:30:27 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen
Couple of months ago, I posted an article here of a former Ukrainian intelligence officer. What's evident is that while Russian spies are everywhere in Ukraine, there's a great deal of national pride remaining in the security forces and the army. The NYT article speaks about Ukrainian men like these who acted in Ukrainian national interests back in 2004 and given what Yanukovich has done to the country, they were 100% correct to do so.

The difference between Kuchma (president in 2004) and Yanukovich was that the former was a corrupt president who did not appreciate when Russia was meddling in Ukraine. Putin did not have the free reign to do what he liked until Yanukovich got elected. Yanukovych was путинский гандон, Putin's stooge, he installed Russian citizens as ministers of Defense, intelligence, and Ukraine-haters like Tabachnyk as Education minister. Last 4 years were a nightmare for Ukraine, but hopefully there are more Ukrainian spies out there to protect the country.

18 posted on 05/03/2014 11:38:28 AM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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To: PieterCasparzen

“founders of our CIA”

Wild Bill Donavan and the OSS was a precursor to the CIA.

He had know leftist working form him under the pretence it was necessary for them to survive in some foreign environments.

It may have been necessary, but long term there were costs from it.

Donavan himself was not directly subversive.

http://www.arlingtoncemetery.net/wjdonovan-photo-01.jpg


19 posted on 05/03/2014 12:00:58 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!)
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To: Texas Fossil

Classmate of FDR at Columbia Law School. Protege of Harlan Stone, along with J. Edgar Hoover. As he got more involved with Rockefeller/Rotschild interests, he married the heiress Ruth Rumsey. He was appointed in 1915 by the Rockefeller foundation to its “war relief commission”. Went on to remain a loyal minion of financial elites throughout his career.


20 posted on 05/03/2014 2:02:59 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen

I did not know about the FDR connection. But should have.

Thanks.


21 posted on 05/03/2014 8:40:35 PM PDT by Texas Fossil (Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!)
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To: Texas Fossil

Another interesting individual whose career is a nexus of communism and Wall Street is Felix Frankfurter, Supreme Court Justice.

You might want a drink before researching too much.

Another fellow with the Wall Street / communist alternating stripes is W. Averell Harriman. His mommy donated ten thousand acres outside New York City which became Harriman State Park.

Striking connections.


22 posted on 05/03/2014 11:10:18 PM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: PieterCasparzen

Yes, I have read a little about Averell Harriman and his influence in DC.


23 posted on 05/04/2014 6:03:52 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!)
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