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Who makes up the ranks of Kiev's "elite National Guard" being sent to Odessa and Slavyansk?
5/6/2014 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist

Posted on 05/06/2014 6:59:44 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist

Fox News reported yesterday that Kiev is sending an "elite National Guard" to Odessa, and today the International Business Times reported that Kiev is sending an "elite National Guard" to Slavyansk.

Who makes up the ranks of this elite National Guard when Vice News reported on March 19, 2014 - in their article "A look Inside Ukraine's Volunteer National Guard" - and in it said then that Ukraine had - by its own admission - only 6,000 combat-ready troops?

Looks like Kiev didn't/doesn't have a pot to even... much less an "elite National Guard."

BTW, Vice News was the news outfit whose reporter Simon Ovstrovsky was - thankfully - released on/around April 24, 2014.

There is an online article "EuroMaidan creates National Guard units" 1/29/2014.

In the article, it is reported that the National Guard is made up of Maidan Self-Defense, Right Sector represented by one of its units, "The Vikings" and Cossacks.


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: agateprop; cossacks; crimea; donetsk; euromaidan; iran; kiev; lebanon; maidan; maidanselfdefense; nationalguard; odessa; opec; pravysector; putinsbuttboys; randsconcerntrolls; rightsector; ruble; russia; saudiarabia; slavyansk; slovyansk; thevikings; ukraine; vladtheimploder
The "Euromaidan Creates National Guard units" article is available online for perusal
1 posted on 05/06/2014 6:59:45 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; caww; little jeremiah; Count of Monte Fisto; tcrlaf; wetphoenix
EuroMaidan Creates National Guard Units

Made up of Right Sector, represented by one of its units “The Vikings,” Maidan Self-Defense, and the Cossacks,

http://nrgb.biz/euromaidan-creates-national-guard-units/

2 posted on 05/06/2014 7:03:01 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; All; McGruff

Check out this article on Kiev’s “EuroMaidan National Guard.”


3 posted on 05/06/2014 7:08:16 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

You are deliberately misrepresenting what the actual article had to say. You’re trying to make it look like the National Guard is made up only or primarily of Right Sector members. In fact, the article says it is taking volunteers, and the Right Sector members and their units are using the opportunity to join. The article is silent about what the actual percentage of the National Guard recruits are Right Sector and not Right Sector.


4 posted on 05/06/2014 7:09:06 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Maybe that’s why the Jews we warned to be prepared to leave. The Neo-Nazis are coming.


5 posted on 05/06/2014 7:24:37 AM PDT by McGruff (I'ts not the crime it's the coverup they said.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Does Putin sending Chechen terrorists to Ukraine make him a Nazi?

Or are only Ukrainian patriots defending themselves against Russian chauvisim Nazis?

I’m trying to understand the logic here. It appears there is none.


6 posted on 05/06/2014 7:25:15 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: McGruff

Maybe that’s why the Jews we warned to be prepared to leave. The Neo-Nazis are coming.


Yes, it’s been reported Chechen terrorists have arrived in Ukraine. Best everybody leaves.


7 posted on 05/06/2014 7:27:19 AM PDT by lodi90
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To: WhiskeyX
You are misrepresenting what I said and trying to pigeonhole me. Your MO.

The EuroMaidan article said that Right Sector, Cossacks, maidan Self-Defense were all part of Kiev's National Guard.

No one knows what percentage of Right sector makes up this National Guard. I never said that I knew what percentage they made up.

But your quick knee-jerk reaction is quite telling.

“using the opportunity to join.” As if they would be told no?

8 posted on 05/06/2014 7:31:11 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: WhiskeyX
And how would you know what I am trying to make anything look like.

I have said that Putin is a thug more times than I can count, because he is, but I also think that we should stay out of this, as Obama has the anti-Midas touch (Syria, Libya (Benghazi), Obama adm. support for Muslim Brotherhood which has partly led to Isreal, unfortunately, being closer to Russia than they are the U.S. and because McCain is RINO.

Maybe I am wrong, but are you in support of interventionism in Ukraine?

The overwhelming majority of Americans, tea Partiers, etc aren't.

9 posted on 05/06/2014 7:34:53 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: WhiskeyX

On this issue I would not absolutely trust Fox. I haven’t seen any of their reporting that wasn’t second hand and sometime questionable and other times incorrect especially if the original source was Russian disinformation that was picked up and rebroadcast by the European media. Fox isn’t trying to deceive anyone. They simply don’t have the expertise or contacts to make sense of the mess.

There is no question that the military was deprived of funding under Yanukovych and his ministers. What many don’t know is Ukrainians were involved with us in Iraq and Afghanistan.


10 posted on 05/06/2014 7:43:10 AM PDT by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
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To: meatloaf; McGruff

Yahoo News, NPR, NBC News, etc, have all reported what Fox News did - that Kiev has sent/is sending an “elite National Guard” to Odessa

So, not only Fox News, but NBC News, NPR, Yahoo News, (and many others as well) have reported that Kiev is sending an “elite National Guard” to Odessa.

And many from the right and left are reporting the same for Slavyansk - Kiev is sending an “elite National Guard” there.


11 posted on 05/06/2014 7:52:06 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; All
Again, I have no idea what percentage Right Sector constitutes. Never said that i did.

What should be noted is... what is Kiev doing?

Right Sector?

Right Sector stinks up the joint as bad as the Commies that were in the VR.

We need everyone here at FR saying that they BOTH “stink the joint up.”

That will tell us all quite a bit....

12 posted on 05/06/2014 7:58:53 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

“The overwhelming majority of Americans, tea Partiers, etc aren’t.”

There you go again with yet another false statement. You don’t know your statement to be the truth, because it isn’t the truth. You have adopted false propaganda, because you want to believe it regardless of where it originated and regardless of the ultimate cost in lives after the totalitarians have been given the time and resources to become a much greater threat than they already are. Had the Allies strictly enforced the First World War Armistice terms, Germany and Hitler’s NAZI regime would have been put out of business with a minimal loss of life and treasure. World War Two in Europe as we know it with the loss of tens of millions of lives would not have occurred. Yet you agitate to make the same mistake again and look for excuse after excuse to avoid confronting the burdens of taking out the trash before it hurts someone very badly.


13 posted on 05/06/2014 7:59:22 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: meatloaf
what many don't know is that Ukrainians were with us in Iraq and Afghanistan?

Why? They have a terrible economy and dire needs at home. Neither country had threatened Ukraine. They were propping up a US government adventure that most US citizens don't support.

What this means in Ukraine is that training for that war is yet another source of residents who can fight a war. Why does the US want to stir up that hornet's nest?

14 posted on 05/06/2014 8:05:43 AM PDT by grania
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To: WhiskeyX; caww; little jeremiah; McGruff; All; wetphoenix; tcrlaf

Whoa... Step back from the coffee mug...

It is McCain and other RINOS that are for interventionism.

April 30, 2014 poll from Wall Street Journal/NBC News finds that only 19% of Americans want Washginton DC to be “more involved” in oversaes interventionsim.

According to the Wall Street Journal the finding are indicative of “an anti-interventionist current that sweeps across party lines” in the U.S.

Sweeps across party lines.

Do you want more polls that show the same thing? I imagine not.

Then you follow up your strawman that I dealt with with just more baseless Ad Homs that are hollow and false.


15 posted on 05/06/2014 8:09:41 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: WhiskeyX

If you have evidence that most Americans support intervention in Ukraine, please show it. Support for us to fight on the eastern front, and have a military confrontation with Russia is seen nowhere.

Huff and puff all you want, but by your standard there is not a single war on earth that we could not be dragged into.
If this is such a world threat and menace, then why are Germany, France, Czech republic, Poland, the Netherlands, etc all not intervening RIGHT NOW in Ukraine? It should affect them the most, right?
And if they are unwilling to go intervene, or cannot see a threat, then it isn’t our responsibility to run “save” them.


16 posted on 05/06/2014 8:09:50 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

You chose to not link to the actual articles. Instead you chose to author the post yourself, and then in the first response post you went to the trouble of commenting only upon the presence of the Right Sector volunteers. AS the material you posted stands, its singular references only to the presence of the Right Sector volunteers strongly implies you are reporting to the readers any nus which may attach to the Right Sector must now also attach to the elite National Guard of the Ukraine. You focus on the presence of the Right Sector in the National Guard is the one and only theme present in what you personally wrote.


17 posted on 05/06/2014 8:10:15 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: DesertRhino

“If you have evidence that most Americans support intervention in Ukraine, please show it. Support for us to fight on the eastern front, and have a military confrontation with Russia is seen nowhere.”

He made the statement, let him provide the evidence supporting the statement.


18 posted on 05/06/2014 8:11:54 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

Agaian, he Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll. 4/30/2014 (just one of others that could be cited):

The anti-interventionism in America stretches across party lines.

Jeb Bush can forget being president, as can Chris Christie, or any other establishmnet Repub/RINO.


19 posted on 05/06/2014 8:12:31 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: meatloaf

Yes, and few Americans are aware of the Ukraine’s and Russia’s NATO Partnerships.


20 posted on 05/06/2014 8:14:11 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

“Right Sector represented by one of its units, “The Vikings” and Cossacks.”

As in 1st SS Cossack division, and the 5th SS Viking divisions. (both recruited from Baltic and eastern Euro countries)

And then they stand there in slack jawed amazement and righteous indignation when people point out that their inner Nazi is showing.


21 posted on 05/06/2014 8:18:31 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: WhiskeyX

And when he said most Americans and Tea Partiers do not support intervention in Ukraine, you answered.

“There you go again with yet another false statement.”

So explain to us why his proposition is false. Why do you believe his statement is wrong. You said it was.


22 posted on 05/06/2014 8:20:58 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: WhiskeyX

You have no credibility. You made an ad hom attack in post #2 that I devastated in post #4. You followed that up with quoting me in post #13, and I devastated that post by showing proof from the Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll, quoting them, which showed that a majority of Americans are anti-interventionism. It stretches across party lines. And now you finally get around to trying yet another angle and line of attack... In this post, you use the word “strongly implies.” That is your misrepresentation of what i posted and yet another attempt at trying to pigeonhole me. Right Sector is mentioned once in the first post by me. It is mentioned once in the second post by me. In both posts (#1 and #2) I list all three that the article from EuroMaidan listed. ....


23 posted on 05/06/2014 8:24:38 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: DesertRhino
The Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll (just one poll that shows the same): it found an opposition to interventionism -— “an anti interventionist current... sweeps across part lines.”

WhiskeyX could go to Google to find the news reports from Fox News, Yahoo News, NBC News (that he said I don't link to), and find them.

The WSJ/NBC News poll is easily found, too.

I wonder if WhiskeyX really wants the truth...

24 posted on 05/06/2014 8:32:41 AM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: WhiskeyX

“Had the Allies strictly enforced the First World War Armistice terms, Germany and Hitler’s NAZI regime would have been put out of business with a minimal loss of life and treasure”

Think hard Call to Duty video game commando. See if you can dream up why the USA, Britain and France did not decide to invade Germany in 1933?

Although wars are really fun, and hindsight is 20/20, England was devastated financially and psychologically by the war. They basically had an entire generation of young men slaughtered. The USA was wallowing deeper into the great depression and had just overturned Prohibition. WWI combined with the Spanish Flu was not exactly a fond memory among Americans. The gathering of WWI vets had just been mowed down by McArthur in DC.
France? They had higher losses than England and were still trying to figure out which brick went with which in the rubble. The other Ally, Russia, was in Stalin’s death grip right then experiencing the worst of their terror. And last, having been given the finger at Versailles by the others, former Ally Japan was beginning to act oddly in China right about then.

Everyone who fought in the war was sitting around in catatonic shock writing cathartic tomes of novels.

And right then, exactly then,,, because the Germans were violating some small provisions in Versailles, you think a leader then could have made a case for attacking Germany?
There was nobody, anywhere, who thought Germany needed attacking in the early 1930s. Or really even in the late 30s right up until they launched the war.


25 posted on 05/06/2014 8:37:44 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

“Then you follow up your strawman that I dealt with with just more baseless Ad Homs that are hollow and false.”

There is nothing baseless about my criticism. You made statements contrary to the evidence. For example, the following 2009 poll makes it abundantly clear there is nothing overwhelming about American non-interventionist sentiment. In fact, in many polls such non-interventionist sentiment was the minority opinion and ha been for ears earlier. See:

The title of the Pew Research Center poll, which asked 2,000 U.S. citizens about United States’ role in the world, says it all: “Isolationist Sentiment Surges to Four-Decade High.”

The survey found that almost half of Americans (49 percent) think the United States should stay out of foreign affairs and let other countries get along the best they can on their own. That number is the highest in 40 years and represents an increase from 30 percent who felt that way just seven years ago.
http://www.rferl.org/content/New_Poll_Finds_Americans_Favor_US_Isolationism_Acting_Alone/1894924.html

Public Sees U.S. Power Declining as Support for Global Engagement Slips

America’s Place in the World 2013
http://www.people-press.org/2013/12/03/public-sees-u-s-power-declining-as-support-for-global-engagement-slips/

The Founding Fathers, notwithstanding the comments of George Washington taken out of context, found it necessary to participate in collective security arrangements with America’s international allies. The need is now more urgent than it was two centuries ago. Using your polls to claim an overwhelming opinion in favor of you proposition has the same appearance and stench as the Obama and Communist tactics. It really matters not what you say your political affiliation is supposed to be. A falsehood by friend or by an enemy is still a falsehood.


26 posted on 05/06/2014 8:38:07 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: DesertRhino

See post 26. There are other polls which indicate American opinion against interventionism or for isolationism has been the MINORITY opinion and not the majority opinion, at least until 2013-214, and only by 2 percentage points even then. Minority and slight majority percentages in no way can be interpreted as clear evidence of “overwhelming” opinion as claimed.


27 posted on 05/06/2014 8:44:13 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
Looks like OBozo`s blueprint for Conservatives should he try his take over.
28 posted on 05/06/2014 8:48:37 AM PDT by nomad
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

QUOTE
“The Wall Street Journal/NBC News poll (just one poll that shows the same): it found an opposition to interventionism -— “an anti interventionist current... sweeps across part lines.”
WhiskeyX could go to Google to find the news reports from Fox News, Yahoo News, NBC News (that he said I don’t link to), and find them.
UNQUOTE

Their articles take the phrase “an anti interventionist current... sweeps across part lines.” from the 2009 Pew Research poll I referenced in which the anti-interventionist opinion was a 49% minolrity opinion, which can hardly be honestly described as an “overwhelming” majority opinion. Neither can the 52% slight majority opinion be honestly described as “overwhelming.” You hyperbole simply is not supported by an overwhelming number of poll results.

The WSJ/NBC News poll is easily found, too.

I wonder if WhiskeyX really wants the truth...


29 posted on 05/06/2014 8:50:34 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

“For example, the following 2009 poll makes it abundantly clear “

A 2009 poll asking -generally- if America should “intervene in the world”, is a very different animal than one asking if Americans should intervene on behalf of the EU and their pet Nazis, in 2014, in a budding civil war, where we would likely wind up in a shooting war with Russia.

Today support for soldiers is very high, but support for intervention is low. Nobody supported the intervention in Libya but Obama and the EU flipped the American people the bird and did it anyway. In Syria, support was even lower and the opposition was more vocal. Obama was still going to attack but Putin outsmarted him and made it too difficult.

But looking around at recent events, I see very little support for a new war. Especially one to support a government that many see as installed by an EU and State Dept funded Nazi coup.

Im really sorry that Putin is mean to the homos. But Obamas revenge has gone way too far.


30 posted on 05/06/2014 8:51:45 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: grania

It helps to understand what good comes out of those situations. Working with other countries greatly helps at other times such as when natural disasters result in several countries providing assistance. The Ukrainian flag ship took part in a NATO exercise.

The international group that consisted of naval ships from several nations virtually stopped Somali piracy. The Ukrainian officers and men that worked along side us undoubtedly not only provided insight into the Ukrainian military but also provided contacts for the future.

I wouldn’t be surprised if some of the members of our military have more insight from personal contacts in Ukraine than the White House.


31 posted on 05/06/2014 8:52:15 AM PDT by meatloaf (Impeach Obama. That's my New Year's resolution.)
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To: DesertRhino

Your ignorance about the history of Hitler’s pre-war aggressions is a yawning black hole given your misuse of the dates. It gives the impression you know far more about a software game called Call of Duty than you do about the real world, so your attempt at sarcasm is a complete flop. Before tossing around such ignorant accusations, try looking up the dates for the German reoccupation of the Rhineland and other actions prohibited by the Armistice. Also note how the German military leadership says they would have removed Hitler and his NAZI Party from power by force if the Allies had moved to enforce the terms of the Armistice. Your attempt to trivialize the vast number of lives and the vast treasures lost in the war due to the failure of Europe and the United States to enforce the Armistice and the Kellogg-Briand Pact reflects poorly on your conduct.


32 posted on 05/06/2014 9:01:39 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

Dream on if you think most Americans want even more wars. Americans aren’t shy about wars where there is a clear American interest at stake. But they have no desire to continue this state of continuous war. Especially for NWO and EU designs, and for revenge because Russia was mean to homos.

This current drumbeat started last summer when Russians started kicking out USAID, NGOs and started passing their homo laws. And Obama has been hell bent on revenge since then.

This crap has to stop. We have been in continuous war now almost the length of all other wars combined last century and show no sign of ending. WWII was 3.5 years. WWI was 1.5 years. Vietnam was about 7 for us depending how you count. Korea was 3. Gulf War was a little less than a year. We are coming up on year 13 of this and we are looking for new ones that have nothing to do with us.
A solid case can be made that DC doesn’t want us to focus internally.

It needs to stop.


33 posted on 05/06/2014 9:02:35 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: DesertRhino

So says the same person who failed to bother to get the date of the German reoccupation of the Rhineland even close to correct.

Try finding credible polls in which the percentages against U.S. and NATO defending Moldova, Romania, Slovakia, Poland, Lithuania, Latvia, and Estonia are greater than 66% of the respondents in 66% of the polls.


34 posted on 05/06/2014 9:12:27 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: WhiskeyX

“German military leadership says they would have removed Hitler and his NAZI Party from power by force if the Allies had moved to enforce the terms of the Armistice”

NO dice sport. Take the word of Nazis AFTER the war who were telling us how they almost though about opposing Hitler? Please don’t be a tool. They were making themselves look less culpable. “It was all Hitler, we were really opposed to his plan”. LOL

And as for the dates, I never mentioned the Rhineland. The Germans were continually violating Versailles almost as soon as He came to power in 1933. He far exceeded the 100,000 army in 35. Launched Battleships in 36. He started fighting in Spain in 36 with an Air Force he had already built.

Dance around it all you want. In ‘33 Hitler came to power and started his violations from moment one. Nobody wanted to restart the war, though armchair video game commandos like you think they should have.
Even in the later more brazen violations, nobody wanted to use force.
The dirt truth is that even had Chamberlain come home from Munich and said we much prepare for war, his government would have toppled the next day. Churchill was openly laughed at then for suggesting Hitler was planning on killing Jews.
And who the hell are you to decide if I have poor conduct? Poor conduct is trying to beat the drums for a war on the eastern front in Ukraine, on behalf of Nazis, and trying to drag us into it.

THAT is trivializing lives.


35 posted on 05/06/2014 9:16:28 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: WhiskeyX

You glittering jewel of ignorance. I never brought up the occupation of the Rhineland. That was you. I was mentioning German violations of Versailles that began the moment Hitler came to power.
You assumed I was speaking of the Rhineland. You do know about the word “assume” don’t you?


36 posted on 05/06/2014 9:19:06 AM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

National Guard existed in 1991-2000 so it’s not new. It’s comprised of former soldiers and Maidan Self-Defense. As I mentioned in another post, Right Sector said they’re not joining the Guard.


37 posted on 05/06/2014 10:23:48 AM PDT by Ivan Mazepa
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