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Heinlein, Hugos, and Hogwash
Intercollgiate Review ^

Posted on 05/08/2014 7:29:55 PM PDT by Perdogg

Robert Heinlein could not win a Hugo Award today.

If you are a fan of science fiction, you know how shocking that statement is. If you are not a science fiction fan, I salute you for having better things to do with your time than read stories about space princesses being rescued from bug-eyed monsters by stalwart and clean-limbed fighting men of Virginia; but please let me explain why this is shocking.

(Excerpt) Read more at intercollegiatereview.com ...


TOPICS: Books/Literature; Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: hugoaward; robertheinlein
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1 posted on 05/08/2014 7:29:55 PM PDT by Perdogg
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To: Aevery_Freeman; ShadowAce; Jack Hydrazine; Altariel; nuancey; Thorliveshere; skinkinthegrass; ...

ping


2 posted on 05/08/2014 7:30:41 PM PDT by Perdogg (Ted Cruz-Rand Paul 2016)
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To: Perdogg

I’ve read this earlier. Reminded me of Starship Troopers and how they limiting the vote to the military. I’d seriously consider running for office on such a platform. What’s wrong with the idea?


3 posted on 05/08/2014 7:32:19 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Perdogg

I’m rereading the Edgar Rice Burroughs Venus series now.

I didn’t recognize it when I read it as a teenager but its an anti communist story.


4 posted on 05/08/2014 7:33:28 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
I don't think everybody has to be in the military to vote. Personally I don't want everybody to be eligible for military duty. It slows the rest of us down.

I think a critical component to voting should be paying taxes. That doesn't mean everybody has to be rich. We need a tax structure where everybody pays something. That "something" immediately makes all but the uber-warped liberals into somewhat of a fiscal conservative. The current freebie structure we have make a big voting block who vote to fill their pockets with money from those who pay taxes.

5 posted on 05/08/2014 7:38:58 PM PDT by USNBandit (sarcasm engaged at all times)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

It’s a concept which appeals to many in the military.

But other than that...no.


6 posted on 05/08/2014 7:50:42 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

So only government employees who are trained to follow orders no mater what can vote? And you don’t see a flaw in that?


7 posted on 05/08/2014 7:51:40 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Perdogg

Thanks for the tip. I haven’t read any John C. Wright, but I’ve just ordered his Chaos trilogy from Amazon, in used paperbacks. Looks promising.


8 posted on 05/08/2014 7:54:46 PM PDT by Cicero (Marcus Tullius)
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To: Perdogg

Heinlein would be required reading if I were a high school English teacher. My English teacher had us read The Puppet Masters and I think read it 5 more times over the summer.


9 posted on 05/08/2014 7:55:25 PM PDT by HMS Surprise (Chris Christie can STILL go straight to hell.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Nothing is wrong with the concept as long as you really grok (sorry I’m a Heinlein fan) it. It was more complicated than just allowing the military to vote.


10 posted on 05/08/2014 7:55:26 PM PDT by Durus (You can avoid reality, but you cannot avoid the consequences of avoiding reality. Ayn Rand)
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To: Perdogg

If R.A.H. were still with us; I suspect he’d be reading John Scalzi & Robert J. Sawyer. Both of them have won Hugo’s and have written novels with STRONGLY Heinleinian themes.

If you’ve missed it; find and read Sawyer’s “Calculating God”!


11 posted on 05/08/2014 8:00:24 PM PDT by PizzaDriver ( on)
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To: Perdogg

Back in the mid-1980s while I was in the U.S.Navy, I bought a sci-fi anthology that featured all female authors. I also bought a couple more sci-fi novels written by men. Who had written what didn’t matter to me until I got into the anthology and found some of the short stories were about lesbians.

I’m not interested in the stories of lesbians or other homosexuals. This would include others, such as straights, involved in S&M - not interested.


12 posted on 05/08/2014 8:03:13 PM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: Perdogg

Mel Brooks on Blazing New Comedic Trails in ‘Blazing Saddles’
https://movies.yahoo.com/blogs/movie-news/mel-brooks-on-blazing-new-comedic-trails-in—blazing-saddles-215405381.html

“They can’t make that movie today because everybody’s so politically correct. You know, the NAACP would stop a great movie that would do such a great service to black people because of the N-word,” says Brooks. “You’ve got to really examine these things and see what’s right and what’s wrong. Politically correct is absolutely wrong. Because it inhibits the freedom of thought. I’m so lucky that they weren’t so strong then and that the people that let things happen on the screen weren’t so powerful then. I was very lucky.”


13 posted on 05/08/2014 8:04:01 PM PDT by Jack Hydrazine (Pubbies = national collectivists; Dems = international collectivists; We need a second party!)
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To: cripplecreek

I’m still trying to finish the Nebula 1958 Anthology.

Seems to be a lot of prissiness among SciFi writings fans. Didn’t know that this even existed. Well, I guess political correctness infects even those who like non-existent worlds and people.

I’ve met a lot of Sci Fi actors/actresses and some writers. Found them to be very nice, educated, and friendly, even after spending hours at SciFi conventions. They seem to have a high regards for most of their colleagues (don’t get me started on the Shatner/Takei issue).

Why can’t we all just get along?

If you want to read or hear really nasty PC stuff, go to any American university campus today. Just tell the Moslem students that you are Jewish and see what happens. Tell the Marxists that marxism has killed more people than any other “ism” and they will deny it, justify it, or try to silence you.

Do the old Charles Bronson “finger pointing as a gun” gesture and you’ll end up in jail, even if you are 5 years old.

Say something negative about a liberal woman (esp. if it is true), and you are labelled a mysognist or whatever despite the fact that you are married to a woman. Now, if you are a man and married to a man, you might get away with it. If not, you’re toast.

Let’s let Sci-Fi writing remain one of the last PC-untouched bastions of literature. Otherwise, “beam me up Scotty, there’s no intelligent life down here.”


14 posted on 05/08/2014 8:04:02 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: USNBandit
The idea that you had to have a stake (pay taxes, own property, etc) to vote has been around a while, since the late 1700’s in our country but about 2500 years elsewhere.

It's gone in the US, and in the Western World for the foreseeable future. The why’s are complicated. There's a ton of legal and political history, and it's not all bad. The truth is, the so-called “givers” haven't always treated the so-called “takers” like humans (and the meaning of those concepts has changed radically troughout time), and it sort reinforces the idea that people can't be trusted to treat people like people. It's human nature. If only someone besides humans would take charge...

SciFi in the 1950-70’s was different. I like it better than today's, in general (George RR Martin... his Song of Ice and Fire/ Game of Thrones series is a masterpiece [and HBO does a great adaptation], I wish he'd finish it already.)

But, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Starship Troopers, Stranger in a Strange Land, etc, are awesome. Written by a man who loved humanity and loved in country. By the way, same can be said for Slaughterhouse Five, Breakfast of Champions, and Cat Cradle, different people, different perspectives, but the same love of mankind in general and the American way in particular, but very different.

I'll finish “The Mote in God's Eye” tonight, which has some of that same militaristic honor vibe, and some cool human nature commentary. A great book.

Orson Scott Card wrote Ender’s Game for every kid who though they were smart but misunderstood. The other books in the Ender Quintet were Antrhobology 101 for Americans who though they could understand other people and other groups by applying their own views to explain the actions of others (another masterpiece, and I wish he'd write about whoever created that virus). Card has some beliefs that people who loved his work and his philosophy thought intolerant. they were surprised, and that shock made them mad. I think it's ironic given his message. As a SciFi writer, he's brilliant.

Also, read Patrick O’Brian. Not Sci Fi, at all, but a similar old school philosophy that won't be popular now, but was an awesome series.

But, in the end, I think this is simple. Until the late 1960’s, then changing through about 1980, our society started to reject the pre-196(4/5-ish) American culture, in favor of some Post-modern, more equitable beliefs, and that change included the arts, movies, literature, TV, etc. That wasn't all bad. There were major inequities and cultural failings in our country and Western culture that were ignored. The problem was that we started ignoring the good stuff that was there, and too many of today's people forget the good.

It's a shame. It's also probably a luxury of being rich and safe, or fat dumb and happy for too long.

15 posted on 05/08/2014 8:14:13 PM PDT by NYFriend
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
Reminded me of Starship Troopers and how they limiting the vote to the military.

False.

Federal Service Guarantees Citizenship.

16 posted on 05/08/2014 8:14:28 PM PDT by null and void ( They don't think think they are above the law. They think they are the law.)
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To: null and void

You’re probably correct, I’ve not read the book for awhile!


17 posted on 05/08/2014 8:15:13 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

It would be reasonable if it included the hard civic service in the book, too.
But today it might fail because only 1.5% are active military. We’d see public school teachers, environmentalists, NGO workers and other left dominated groups say they serve the public, they get to vote.


18 posted on 05/08/2014 8:16:50 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: USNBandit

Michael Savage proposed a system where anyone collecting federal benefits, from a federal civilian employee to someone collecting TANF or Section 8 housing vouchers or SNAP food benefits or Medicaid is ineligible to vote. If you live even partially at the benefit of the treasury, you don’t get to vote on how the money is apportioned.


19 posted on 05/08/2014 8:18:15 PM PDT by tbw2
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To: SatinDoll

Analog ran a story called The Vaults of Permian Love. I started reading it, groaned when I got to the lesbian, but stuck it out and was pleasantly surprised by the story. There were no lesbian love scenes, but the fact that one character was a lesbian was crucial to the rather interesting premise of the story, not just a gratuitous drop-in.


20 posted on 05/08/2014 8:19:46 PM PDT by null and void ( They don't think think they are above the law. They think they are the law.)
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To: Cicero

John C. Wright is really, really good. It should say who wrote the article because conservative people who dig sci-fi should know his name if they don’t.

Once a classically educated libertarian, now a conservative Catholic whose ‘golden age’ series is the best thing to come out since Dan Simmon’s Hyperion, at least that I have read. If there’s any justice he will be looked back at as being up there with Gene Wolfe, another conservative Catholic sci-fi writer, one who is actually pretty well regarded even among the lib elite, as he should be.

I haven’t read the Chaos series, but have read ‘count to a trillion’ and the golden age series. I thought it was tremendous, really a love letter to classic sci-fi series of the 60s using an argument about the dangers and benefits of where technology might be taking us, from a pretty conservative and Christian point of view. Anyone who digs really good sci-fi from say the late 50s-60s would dig it, but many let his politics turn them off, which doesn’t say too much for them as sci-fi fans, in my opinion.

The libs can’t stand this guy, his blog is full of everything between dissertations on natural law to classic sci-fi to modern politics. Usually with a heavy Catholic view, at least since his conversion, which he claims is miraculous and happened when he had a heart attack.

http://www.scifiwright.com/

Freegards


21 posted on 05/08/2014 8:19:55 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: GeronL

I was thinking more along the lines of anybody who has the stomach for hard work, service, and willingness to defend the country, as having a higher liklyhood of not abusing their vote. But, this is all dreaming, not even conservative utopias should be trusted, so you’re probably right in your objection. Vanity of vanities, all is vanity!


22 posted on 05/08/2014 8:21:58 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
Say something negative about a liberal woman (esp. if it is true), and you are labelled a mysognist or whatever despite the fact that you are married to a woman.

I had the rather odd thought that American Men should marry Russian women, and American women should marry Russian men...

23 posted on 05/08/2014 8:22:18 PM PDT by null and void ( They don't think think they are above the law. They think they are the law.)
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To: tbw2

Should apply to state workers too.


24 posted on 05/08/2014 8:23:17 PM PDT by informavoracious (Open your eyes, people!)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
I'm half right. The book requires federal service, the movies *spit* require military service.
25 posted on 05/08/2014 8:26:15 PM PDT by null and void ( They don't think think they are above the law. They think they are the law.)
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To: tbw2; GeronL

To be honest, I think we need compulsory military service the way South Korea does. I believe that when they reach a certain age, they have to put in 2 years. I would like to make it “compulsory” if you want the right to vote. I also think we need better war preparations in this country, particularly by building the same type of shelters and giving the same kind of basic training and drills that the Russians put their people through. They’re preparing for a world war and a nuclear exchange. We’re likely to go down with a single EMP strike. But I also want a million dollars, and maybe a supermodel for a wife! So, I’m not too hopeful on the average American giving up their comfort and making sacrifices like that, willing to go out and make the constitutional changes this would require.


26 posted on 05/08/2014 8:26:35 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: cripplecreek

I just re-read the Pellucidar series, found ‘em in a used bookstore, all with the Frazetta covers.

I thought there was a lot of pretty conservative ideas I missed the first time around. Definitely would have got ERB vilified if he put it out today.

Freegards


27 posted on 05/08/2014 8:26:39 PM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
Heinlein had other forms of qualifying volunteer national service for those who could not qualify for military service in “Starship Troopers.” His point was that full citizenship was a privilege to be earned in that society, not a birthright.
28 posted on 05/08/2014 8:29:00 PM PDT by VietVet (I am old enough to know who I am and what I believe, and I 'm not inclined to apologize for any of)
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To: GeronL

A perfect rebuttal to a longstanding proposal.


29 posted on 05/08/2014 8:29:30 PM PDT by ctdonath2 ("If they bring a knife to the fight, we bring a gun" - Obama, setting RoE with his opposition)
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To: SatinDoll

Heinlein definitely had a deviant side. Want proof? In “Time Enough for Love”, Lazarus Long has a romantic relationship with his mother. ‘Nuff said.


30 posted on 05/08/2014 8:31:21 PM PDT by rbg81
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To: VietVet

I need to reread his book, as it has been quite awhile. I do recall that there were indeed other ways to qualify. But, the premise, I most certainly embrace, that citizenship is not a birthright.


31 posted on 05/08/2014 8:31:46 PM PDT by Greetings_Puny_Humans (I mostly come out at night... mostly.)
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To: USNBandit

critical component to voting should be paying taxes

I agree, this is why I favor a consumption tax, with no exemptions. When everyone has a stake in the game the game will change.


32 posted on 05/08/2014 8:31:55 PM PDT by logic101.net (How many more children must die on the altar of gun control?)
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To: null and void

At least Russian women can drive a tractor and harvest potatoes. Most American women can’t do that.

However, my wife can really cook potatoes and I taught my daughter to drive at tractor at age 12. We were never on a kibbutz, but we like farming so but I guess I’ll have to create a new saying:

You can take a Jew out of the kibbutz or shtetl, but you can’t take the kibbutz/shtetl out of the Jew.

Interestingly, none of my Russian or Austrian grandparents lived in them either. They were city folk. Some left because of the pogroms that were just starting in Russia. A few left Austria for a new life in America (still under the Hapsburgs). The rest stayed and were killed in the Holocaust.

I’m so regular American that I bleed Red, White and Blue. And proud of it. I really hate those PC fools. They make life bland, fearful and rigid, just the opposite of what freedom should be.

Just rambling. It is late and I’m going home to get some dinner.


33 posted on 05/08/2014 8:33:53 PM PDT by MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
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To: Perdogg

Thanks Perdogg.


34 posted on 05/08/2014 8:37:28 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
To become a citizen you had to have served in the armed forces. Only citizens could vote - the thinking being that only someone who had fought could even contemplate the cost of freedom and the high price put on having a vote! “Under our system every voter and officeholder is a man who has demonstrated through voluntary and difficult service that he places the welfare of the group ahead of personal advantage.” ― Robert A. Heinlein, Starship Troopers
35 posted on 05/08/2014 8:43:09 PM PDT by melsec (Once a Jolly Swagman camped by a Billabong.)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
At least Russian women can drive a tractor and harvest potatoes. Most American women can’t do that.

Russian farm women can do that. And there probably isn't a single American farm woman who can't do it, too.

36 posted on 05/08/2014 8:47:32 PM PDT by okie01
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To: USNBandit

In the book everybody could serve in some form or another. They would find a job you were capable of doing. For example, even a paraplegic could be used to test new medicine.


37 posted on 05/08/2014 8:55:06 PM PDT by Hugin
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To: NYFriend
If only someone besides humans would take charge...

Ah, yes; great idea. Keith Laumer explored it...

The Monitors

38 posted on 05/08/2014 8:57:17 PM PDT by ApplegateRanch (Love me, love my guns!©)
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To: NYFriend
But, The Moon is a Harsh Mistress, Starship Troopers, Stranger in a Strange Land, etc, are awesome. Written by a man who loved humanity and loved in country. By the way, same can be said for Slaughterhouse Five, Breakfast of Champions, and Cat Cradle, different people, different perspectives, but the same love of mankind in general and the American way in particular, but very different.

You might want to try out some of John Ringo's books.  The first book in his Aldenata series is A Hymn Before Battle, and is available for free at Baen Publishing's website at the aforementioned link. The Last Centurian is not free, but you won't find a more conservative freeper-style book short of Matt Bracken.

39 posted on 05/08/2014 9:04:35 PM PDT by zeugma (Don't cry because it's over, smile because it happened - Dr. Seuss (I'll see you again someday Hope))
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To: Perdogg
Neither William F. Buckley nor even Winston Churchill could win a college debate by the rules used today.

College Wins US Debate Championship By Repeating the N-Word Over and Over, Speaking Incomprehensibly

40 posted on 05/08/2014 9:21:06 PM PDT by AZLiberty (No tag today.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans

Because it has an unpopular name ... Fascism. Perhaps we can re-brand it as Smileists and Smileism.


41 posted on 05/08/2014 9:42:44 PM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: SatinDoll

Yea, that’s happened to me a few times. It’s like getting a bucket of cold water tossed in your face. Good for some, not for me.


42 posted on 05/08/2014 9:46:36 PM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: Perdogg
Wow! I don't what to say. I thought for only a moment when I clicked this post, that the story would be some leftist tripe. I could not find exception with anything Mr. Wright presented in the article.

Thanks for posting this.

I love Major Mike's comment to the article at the link.

Can you imagine the invective and vitriol that Farnham's Freehold would bring if it were published today?
[no Muslim would hold a white slave eunuch - that's racist]

43 posted on 05/08/2014 9:53:55 PM PDT by higgmeister ( In the Shadow of The Big Chicken!)
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To: Perdogg

Starship troopers is a bit dated today. It’s Jingoism at it’s finest. Today’s U.S you can’t even be an otherwise law abiding citizen and not offend somebody.

I read a lot of his books. Entertaining, easily understood if a bit over the top but his style and my tastes evolved over time.

I mean who doesn’t like: “An armed society is a polite society”?


44 posted on 05/08/2014 9:54:31 PM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: NYFriend; zeugma; Ransomed

You might also want to look at the work of Tom Kratman. He’s collaborated with John Ringo on a couple of books, and written some on his own. Also, Michael F. Flynn writes very intelligent, not left-leaning books. He’s been compared to Heinlein on numerous occasions.


45 posted on 05/08/2014 10:06:25 PM PDT by Doug Loss
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To: Perdogg

bkmk


46 posted on 05/09/2014 2:54:20 AM PDT by spankalib ("I freed a thousand slaves. I could have freed a thousand more if only they knew they were slaves.")
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To: Ransomed
From wiki

The novel (Pirates of Venus) contains elements of political satire aimed at communism. The novel's villains, the Thorists, start a revolution in the nation of Vepaja for their own good only, cheating the uneducated masses and killing or driving away those doctors and other highly educated that form the foundation of the society. Throughout the book the Thorists remain distant and unreal, and those few that the hero Carson Napier meets are often stupid or incompetent.
47 posted on 05/09/2014 3:15:57 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: MadMax, the Grinning Reaper
Now they're even whining about a show that isn't even on the air about something a guy (Adam Baldwin) said and he isn't even particularly conservative.

Tolerance: ‘When you support FIREFLY you support a right wing racist’
48 posted on 05/09/2014 3:24:22 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
To be honest, I think we need compulsory military service the way South Korea does. I believe that when they reach a certain age, they have to put in 2 years. I would like to make it “compulsory” if you want the right to vote. I also think we need better war preparations in this country, particularly by building the same type of shelters and giving the same kind of basic training and drills that the Russians put their people through.

Something we are in agreement on, who knew?

49 posted on 05/09/2014 3:31:48 AM PDT by verga (When protestants post scripture I am reminded that even the devil can quote scripture.)
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To: Greetings_Puny_Humans
I’ve read this earlier. Reminded me of Starship Troopers and how they limiting the vote to the military. I’d seriously consider running for office on such a platform. What’s wrong with the idea?

REALLY!

If you are unfortunate enough to be in the military under this regime... You are knowingly or unwittingly a tool of the Marxist in the white hut.

The Heinlein paradigm only works when patriots are commander in chief.

50 posted on 05/09/2014 3:59:30 AM PDT by Vaquero (Don't pick a fight with an old guy. If he is too old to fight, he'll just kill you.)
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