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Hearing: Electric Grid Vulnerable to EMP
The Washington Free Beacon ^ | May 8, 2014 5:15 pm | Elizabeth Harrington

Posted on 05/09/2014 6:15:29 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network

Experts on Capitol Hill Thursday warned that an electromagnetic pulse (EMP) attack aimed at the nation’s electrical grid could leave the majority of Americans dead.

(Excerpt) Read more at freebeacon.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat; Health/Medicine; Military/Veterans; Weird Stuff
KEYWORDS: usa
It is beyond belief that this huge problem continues to be ignored in America today.

America needs to address this.

Now.

1 posted on 05/09/2014 6:15:29 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I wonder what a 737 fitted with a nuke that is exploded at its max altitude would do to our electric grid?


2 posted on 05/09/2014 6:22:11 AM PDT by bayliving
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To: bayliving

Nothing, I would think - it might affect an area about 50-100 miles wide. A typical effective EMP needs to be at least 250 miles up.


3 posted on 05/09/2014 6:29:28 AM PDT by struggle
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To: bayliving

“I wonder what a 737 fitted with a nuke that is exploded at its max altitude would do to our electric grid?”

At airline altitudes it would directly impact only a 100 mile radius, and would have to be very big to even do that.


4 posted on 05/09/2014 6:29:28 AM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I am as well “shocked” at this “electrifrying” news. Nah, not really. As long as the low/no infos get their news about kims wedding, they couldn’t care less. I may be wrong but I believe that hairy reid-iculous is most likely pinning the blame for any future attacks on the Koch brothers. :>}


5 posted on 05/09/2014 6:31:04 AM PDT by rktman (Ethnicity: Nascarian. Race: Daytonafivehundrian)
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To: struggle; babygene

While a 50 to 100 mile blackout would be significant depending on the location, (New York, L.A. or D.C.) for instance, I understand that a plane borne EMP would not have a big enough impact to shut the whole electric grid down.


6 posted on 05/09/2014 6:39:37 AM PDT by bayliving
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To: struggle

“A typical effective EMP needs to be at least 250 miles up.”

And it would have to be really big, in the megaton range even then, because the pulse is diminished with the square of the distance.


7 posted on 05/09/2014 6:40:54 AM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

So what is the fix? Putting all electrical lines underground and in metal pipe?

Physically and economically nearly impossible.


8 posted on 05/09/2014 6:53:17 AM PDT by CPOSharky (If a libtards lips are moving...)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

gosh if only someone had a few $trillion for ‘shovel ready’ jobs we could have fixed this


9 posted on 05/09/2014 7:00:04 AM PDT by Mr. K (If you like your constitution, you can keep it...Period. PALIN/CRUZ 2016)
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To: CPOSharky

All I am saying is, if this problem is what it seems (not that this is certain, but it seems to be potentially big) America is being completely irresponsible not paying attention to such a very large issue.

Now.

We need to bring back American industry, and there are a whole lot of things to worry about. But this goes beyond those other things.

America as a whole appears to be at (significant) risk.

All I am saying is, we need to pay attention to this.

Now.


10 posted on 05/09/2014 7:04:02 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: CPOSharky

Have a stock of the Transformers on hand. It takes a very long time to build and supply the critical transformers. Not the little dudes on the pole outside your house.


11 posted on 05/09/2014 7:13:59 AM PDT by Gadsden1st
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Do all of your posts.
End this way.
Now.


12 posted on 05/09/2014 7:16:15 AM PDT by Kozak ("It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal" Henry Kissingerhaha)
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To: Kozak

Haha.

No. I seem to have overused that a tad though this morning, looking at my history.

Thanks for the feedback.


13 posted on 05/09/2014 7:18:00 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: babygene

“And it would have to be really big, in the megaton range even then, because the pulse is diminished with the square of the distance.”

Yeah, I really wonder what would happen if NK or Iran lofted a 20kt-er up over the US and then found out it fizzled. India and Pakistan couldn’t get over 20 kt and I seriously wonder what our enemies are planning.


14 posted on 05/09/2014 7:18:24 AM PDT by struggle
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To: Gadsden1st
>> Have a stock of the Transformers on hand. <<

More than that, a lot more!

I believe you may be confusing the effects of a nuclear-explosion's EMP with the effects of a "Carrington" (solar flare) event.

A Carrington event would knock out the power grid, but would not destroy run-of-the-mill electronics. So it could be mitigated by:

1. A big stock of high-voltage transformers, per your suggestion; and

2. A warning system that would take the power grid's functioning transformers off-line temporarily when an incoming flare is detected.

But a nuclear EMP not only would cripple our power grid, but it also could fry most solid-state electronic devices (e.g., in all modern cars) under its "umbrella" -- unless those devices had been suitably shielded, grounded and otherwise hardened.

15 posted on 05/09/2014 7:31:53 AM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: Gadsden1st

“Have a stock of the Transformers on hand.”

Good point... Even with the lack of probability of an EMP weapon being deployed, there is always the possibility of a solar flare or even lightning.

I would expect that the power industry already has some degree of redundancy built in. This is something that I would expect would be handled by private industry and not some wasteful government program.


16 posted on 05/09/2014 7:33:01 AM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: Hawthorn

“But a nuclear EMP not only would cripple our power grid, but it also could fry most solid-state electronic devices (e.g., in all modern cars) under its “umbrella” — unless those devices had been suitably shielded, grounded and otherwise hardened. “

‘most’ = possibly some

And a Faraday cage yes, but grounding doesn’t do squat...


17 posted on 05/09/2014 7:40:42 AM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: Hawthorn

There is no doubt an EMP attack would be much more deadly than a Carrington event. I think we could deal with a flare with “reasonable” success especially with the advanced warning we would have.

I agree that an “EMP” attack would send us back to horse and buggy days very quickly. As bad as a nuke over Washington or New York would be, it would be nothing compared to even a “small” EMP attack.

And the worst part of this is that I am convinced it is only a matter of when, not if.


18 posted on 05/09/2014 7:47:34 AM PDT by Gadsden1st
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To: Kozak

I, too, am frequently annoyed by that ridiculous use of the period. Apparently, the use of punctuation marks is no longer taught in schools.


19 posted on 05/09/2014 7:51:31 AM PDT by Bigg Red (1 Pt 1: As he who called you is holy, be holy yourselves in every aspect of your conduct.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Sorry, I just couldn’t stop myself.

Glad to see you’re a good sport.


20 posted on 05/09/2014 8:00:32 AM PDT by Kozak ("It may be dangerous to be America's enemy, but to be America's friend is fatal" Henry Kissingerhaha)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

They need to be more concerned about whats going to happen if and when CWII kicks off. Internal forces will put the grid down. IMO its more likely the grid will be hacked and brought down or some ticked off Americans. EMP is only one of the ways the grid goes down. Getting an alternative source of electrical power for your home is a really good idea.


21 posted on 05/09/2014 8:03:13 AM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose o f a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: babygene

>> a Faraday cage yes, but grounding doesn’t do squat <<

I ground all of my Faraday cages!

(All of those grounds are connected to one another via no. 6 AWG cable, plus being connected to the main electric service ground, per the NEC. And for good measure, all of the above are connected to a separate 8-foot copper grounding rod that’s as close as possible to the Faradays.)


22 posted on 05/09/2014 8:10:18 AM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Is this not the original plot line for the Dark Angel series with Jessica Alba? An EMP sets everyone back to the pre-transistor technology.

EMP will generate a charge in all the conductors and fry anything needing a pure crystal semi-conductor, but the lines will still be there. How soon would we be able to remake breakers and switches pre-semiconductor? We would be out for a bit, and mass chaos will ensue, but we will recover.

Start putting fiber optic in your home. Glass fiber is immune to EMP because it does not depend on an ordered crystal structure, and you only need to Faraday cage the transmitters.


23 posted on 05/09/2014 8:11:27 AM PDT by Seraphicaviary (St. Michael is gearing up. The angels are on the ready line.)
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To: bayliving

A 737 at max altitude ? It would do practically nothing to no one. At about 40,000 feet, or about 8 miles up, even a 1 megaton bomb wouldn’t touch Earth with its fireball, which is about 1.5 miles radius. There would be some wind from the blast but not much else.


24 posted on 05/09/2014 8:14:06 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

“All I am saying is, if this problem is what it seems (not that this is certain, but it seems to be potentially big) America is being completely irresponsible not paying attention to such a very large issue.”

Same thing has been said of the Ozone Hole, Global Warming, etc. Junk ‘science’ lead by people that are not scientists spread by the Internet.


25 posted on 05/09/2014 8:15:15 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: CodeToad

I don’t know.

The issues you mention seem like leftist rallying points.

I’m not sure this is a leftist rallying point.

This seems like a very large (potential) issue which we need to pay a large amount of attention to.

Or not. But it seems like to me.


26 posted on 05/09/2014 8:34:17 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: Kozak

:)

Sure thing.


27 posted on 05/09/2014 8:34:52 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

You don’t spend large amount of anything on potential. You spend it on probable.

EMP has far less science behind it that most other fads people demand everyone else follow.


28 posted on 05/09/2014 8:36:28 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: Hawthorn

“I ground all of my Faraday cages!”

Tough to use an earth ground in a car or plane. Faraday cages do not need one.


29 posted on 05/09/2014 8:37:25 AM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: CodeToad
I have not stayed at a Holiday Inn, so I know next to squat about this. I have tried to research it as much as possible. From what I have gathered, there is a lot of differing views, such as grounding Faraday cages actually being a bad idea, etc. Much of this is caused by the different effects of an EMP vs a solar flare.

However I think the possibility of a solar flare large enough to cause grid outages or even an EMP attack to have a more likely possibility of happening than trouble from the Ozone Hole, Global Warming, Over Population, junk science scams you list.

Since you seem to have a firm grasp of the details, I value your opinion. Do you really rate them all the same?

30 posted on 05/09/2014 8:47:05 AM PDT by Gadsden1st
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To: CodeToad

I agree with the poster in 30.

However I also tend to being concerned with this issue. So I also tend to remain concerned with this.

It appears to me, the military is prepared for EMP, but the civilian population is not.


31 posted on 05/09/2014 8:50:20 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: CodeToad
You don’t spend large amount of anything on potential. You spend it on probable. EMP has far less science behind it that most other fads people demand everyone else follow.

Then why has it been something the military spends money on and has for many decades, both in enhancing EMP weapons, and in hardening against EMPs?

32 posted on 05/09/2014 9:00:30 AM PDT by ansel12 ((Ted Cruz and Mike Lee-both of whom sit on the Senate Judiciary Comm as Ginsberg's importance fades)
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To: babygene

>> Tough to use an earth ground in a car or plane. Faraday cages do not need one. <<

OK, I’ll disconnect all of my grounds this afternoon or tonight!


33 posted on 05/09/2014 9:28:23 AM PDT by Hawthorn
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To: ansel12

They have? Got proof?


34 posted on 05/09/2014 9:57:17 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: CodeToad

I thought you were military, you never noticed that some of your equipment was hardened against EMP, such as my PRC70 in the 1980s, or the PRC 77, and vehicles, aircraft and all kinds of gear?


35 posted on 05/09/2014 10:00:50 AM PDT by ansel12 ((Ted Cruz and Mike Lee-both of whom sit on the Senate Judiciary Comm as Ginsberg's importance fades)
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To: CodeToad

Here is a piece of a Boeing 2008 news release.
“Major survivability discriminators for the Boeing KC-767 included:
More robust surface-to-air missile defense systems
Cockpit displays that improve situational awareness to enable flight crews to better see and assess the threat environment
Better Electro-Magnetic Pulse (EMP) hardening — the KC-767 is better able to operate in an EMP environment compared with the KC-30
Automatic route planning/rerouting and steering cues to the flight crew to avoid threats once they are detected
Better armor-protection features for the flight crew and critical aircraft systems
Better fuel-tank-explosion protection features.”
http://boeing.mediaroom.com/index.php?s=20295&item=179


Here is a paper on military vehicles
White Paper
EMP Mitigation
Protecting Land Mobile Vehicles from
HEMP Threat Environment
Abstract
This paper discusses the possibility, requirements and necessary steps to protect land mobile vehicles
from the effects of an electromagnetic pulse event to ensure continuous mobility of the vehicle. While this
discussion applies to civilian and military vehicles alike, the defense industry’s recognition of a general
EMP (electromagnetic pulse) / HEMP (high-altitude electromagnetic pulse) threat has long resulted in
the establishment of military standards that set requirements for effective EMI/EMP hardening of critical
defense systems. As such, the applicable military standards MIL-STD-188-125 and MIL-STD-464 are
being referenced in this discussion.
http://www.protectiongroup.com/ProtectionTechnologyGroup/media/PTG/WhitePapersandTechnicalNotes/1474-001.pdf

From NATO
“3. APPLICABLE STANDARDS FOR MILITARY SYSTEMS
Standards/Specifications are important means for (military) systems including electrical/electronic equipment
to achieve Intra-System Electromagnetic Compatibility and to protect them sufficiently against
electromagnetic environment effects like e.g. “High Intensity Radiated Fields (HIRF)”, Lightning, HPM or
Electromagnetic Pulse (EMP).
Standards/Specifications will specify the electromagnetic environment parameters to be considered, they
include requirements on equipment and sometimes system design, they should define procedures, how to
demonstrate sufficient protection. They also should keep in mind how to guarantee sufficient protection
during service time of the system.
This chapter deals with an analysis of the existing Standards/Specifications which are mainly applied by
NATO respectively which might be applicable for the military systems.”
http://ftp.rta.nato.int/public/PubFullText/RTO/TR/RTO-TR-059/TR-059-03.pdf

The Canadian military study on the PRC 77 radio
EMP HARDENING INVESTIGATION OF THE PRC-77 RADIO SET
DEFENCE RESEARCH ESTABLISHMENT OTTAWA
REPORT NO. 1167 February 1993
http://www.dtic.mil/dtic/tr/fulltext/u2/a266481.pdf

High Altitude Electromagnetic Pulse (HEMP) and
High Power Microwave (HPM) Devices: Threat Assessments
Congressional Research Service Report for Congress
Clay Wilson
Specialist in Technology and National Security
Foreign Affairs, Defense, and Trade Division
Congressional Research Service, The Library of Congress
Order Code RL32544
Updated August 20, 2004
http://www.history.navy.mil/library/online/hemp_hpm.htm


36 posted on 05/09/2014 10:51:17 AM PDT by ansel12 ((Ted Cruz and Mike Lee-both of whom sit on the Senate Judiciary Comm as Ginsberg's importance fades)
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To: CodeToad; ansel12

>> You don’t spend large amount of anything on potential. You spend it on probable. <<

That’s a misleading statement. You want to look not only at the probability of an event, but also at its potential effects. If you can quantity the effects, say as in a cost estimate, then you should multiply this estimated cost by the estimated probability. That multiplication gives an “expected cost” — and the relative expected costs of different potential disasters are what should determine your rankings of the various expenditures for mitigation.


37 posted on 05/09/2014 10:59:20 AM PDT by Hawthorn
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