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Does a "legitimate redistribution" of wealth include the Vatican archives, Vatican library...?
5/10/2014 | Laissez-Faire Capitalist

Posted on 05/10/2014 2:47:21 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist

I wonder if a "limited redistribution" of wealth includes selling the Vatican archives, the Vatican library, Vatican papers, vatican treasures, etc, etc to various museums and other institutions around the world, and then "redistributing" the wealth that would be procured from this?

Some may say that words have been misinterpreted. If so, then clarify without any possible misunderstanding. But... if there is no misinterpretation, then why not include these in the redistribution of wealth?


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: catholic; francis; incomeinequality; liberationtheology; popefrancis; rcc; redistribution; vatican
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1 posted on 05/10/2014 2:47:21 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

It has been called “charity” for the past two-thousand years.


2 posted on 05/10/2014 2:49:13 PM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist; All

If the See wasn’t misinterpreted, then are the aforementioned fair game?


3 posted on 05/10/2014 2:49:48 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
They won't even consider that is a fair idea because of a certain mentality!


4 posted on 05/10/2014 2:52:48 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("Let's keep the grassroots momentum going ..." -Sarah Palin 4/19/14)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Ignore AP & the rest of the MSM who prefer to misquote Pope Francis on everything he says. I refer you to Ed Morrissey

I liked this line I saw a couple of days ago on Ed Morrisey’s Hot Air Column:

“How do you know Pope Francis is being misquoted? His lips are moving.”

Please read Ed’s column and why it is best to ignore the MSM which is NOT Pope Francis’ friend; he suggests that people read the speech rather than the coverage::

http://hotair.com/archives/2014/05/09/pope-francis-zacchaeus-and-legitimate-redistribution/


5 posted on 05/10/2014 2:52:52 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: SatinDoll
I have no problem with that. Nor do I have a problem with:

“And they sold all that they had and had all things in common and laid everything at the Apostles feet.” as the New Testament said.

No one in the Apostolic Age church was forced to give or to sell. If you wanted to and then give it all away, then fine. If not, then fine. Just DONT make it look like you did one thing when you were doing another, as Ananias and Sapphira did.

That was “Commonism.”

Communism, though, takes - by force.

Commonism says “What is mine is thine.”

Communism says “What is thine is mine.”

If Pope Francis is preaching Commonism then that lines up with the New Testament. If not, then he is in grave error and heresy.

6 posted on 05/10/2014 2:54:36 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I heard they have some original Michaelangelos!


7 posted on 05/10/2014 2:56:08 PM PDT by aynrandfreak (Being a Democrat means never having to say you're sorry)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

It’s a reasonable question. Walk the walk and not just talk the talk.

If one wants others to,give up their wealth, their wealth should be the first to go.


8 posted on 05/10/2014 2:56:08 PM PDT by Jonty30 (What Islam and secularism have in common is that they are both death cults)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I don’t know what he is thinking.


9 posted on 05/10/2014 2:57:40 PM PDT by SatinDoll (A NATURAL BORN CITIZEN IS BORN IN THE US OF US CITIZEN PARENTS.)
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To: aynrandfreak

Seriously...

Who knows what they have or how much...


10 posted on 05/10/2014 2:58:04 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: GreyFriar
What you are offering is similar to the tactic Colmes would do use his and Hannity’s old show when Colmes was debating a conservative or a full-bore Republican:

“But a fellow Republican of yours said this, though..”

11 posted on 05/10/2014 3:01:34 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Let’s see, I wonder what the retail price of the Sistine Chapel ceiling by Michelangelo would be?


12 posted on 05/10/2014 3:04:55 PM PDT by Vinylly (?%)
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To: GreyFriar

May be nuanced in Morrissey’s mind but the rest of the world will see a pope promoting socialism. I find it hard to disagree. Please tell me how Morrisey’s interpretation will become popular belief?


13 posted on 05/10/2014 3:08:04 PM PDT by raybbr (Obamacare needs a death panel.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Kind of a silly comment realy...the treasures held in the Vatican are not expendable assets used to run the church. They are world treasures, held by the Vatican for the benefit of the world’s peope who can se and appreciate them. The Smithsonial Museum has many such treasures an for institutions like the Vatican and the Smithsonian to “cash out” their holdings to help the poor wouldn’t solve poverty for a week.


14 posted on 05/10/2014 3:08:49 PM PDT by terycarl (common sense prevails over all else)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

“Does a “legitimate redistribution” of wealth include the Vatican archives, Vatican library...?”

No. 1) Those treasures are not “wealth” but patrimony. 2) More “wealth” is made from holding on to them than selling them off. Some of the revenue made from their possession is used for charity to the poor.


15 posted on 05/10/2014 3:09:01 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Jonty30

“It’s a reasonable question. Walk the walk and not just talk the talk.”

The Catholic Church has done more for the care of the poor, sick, refugees, and other needy people than any other organization for the last 2,000 years.


16 posted on 05/10/2014 3:11:07 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
There a different between distribute and redistribute..let me give you an analogy.

Christ distributed salvation by willing self sacrifice

Pontius Pilate redistributed by crucifying Christ.

17 posted on 05/10/2014 3:11:27 PM PDT by tophat9000 (An Eye for an Eye, a Word for a Word...nothing more.)
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To: SatinDoll

Saw some pretty impressive art, sculpture, massive tapestries and statues too,, wished I had more time to spend in an almost endless sprawling space full of history and passions of the heart.

It ain’t DisneyLand.

The HolyLand remains my bucket list.


18 posted on 05/10/2014 3:14:24 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi - Revolution is a'brewin!!!)
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To: GreyFriar
"A contribution to this equitable development will also be made both by international activity aimed at the integral human development of all the world’s peoples and by the legitimate redistribution of economic benefits by the State, as well as indispensable cooperation between the private sector and civil society"
19 posted on 05/10/2014 3:16:48 PM PDT by all the best (sat`~!)
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To: raybbr

Only if folks like you, me, and Morrissey spread the correction to fight against the “big lie” the MSM spreads about every thing the Pope says.


20 posted on 05/10/2014 3:17:10 PM PDT by GreyFriar (Spearhead - 3rd Armored Division 75-78 & 83-87)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

THE KEY BEING

You DISTRIBUTE what YOUR TO GIVE

but

You REDISTRIBUTE what OTHERS HAVE

REDISTRIBUTE is GIVING whats NOT YOURS in the first place..


21 posted on 05/10/2014 3:21:15 PM PDT by tophat9000 (An Eye for an Eye, a Word for a Word...nothing more.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I take the Pope’s remarks as a criticism of the United Nations.

About 90% of the money allocated by UN for Humanitarian and Economic Development aid from funds contributed by First World counties for redistribution to Third World counties is stolen, skimmed or purchased at inflated prices by UN employees,well connected grifters and the kleptocrats in the Third World.

UN aid contracting is basically a license to steal by the unscrupulous well connected in the feeding chain

Only about 10% at best actually ends up going to help the the intended recipients.

Pope is telling the UN to stop ripping off the charitable contributions sent to help the poor and needy in less advantaged countries


22 posted on 05/10/2014 3:21:53 PM PDT by rdcbn
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To: rdcbn

Nothing the government does is charitable


23 posted on 05/10/2014 3:28:36 PM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans!)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Why not include their banking, as well?

They are said to be worth $10 to $15 billion.


24 posted on 05/10/2014 3:28:38 PM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

This sounds like the debate that raged in my house during my entire formative years. My mom was Catholic and my Dad brought up Baptist. She wanted 10% of the income to go to the church and charity, my dad said he gave at the office and would give more when and if he felt it was needed and he was able, and he wasn’t listening to the Priest until the Catholic Church used it’s assets to help the poor. My mom would say you don’t get rid of your history and past tradition when we can give now.

So I ended up a Catholic that doesn’t tithe but gives to charity regularly.


25 posted on 05/10/2014 3:37:28 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: Vinylly

I will start the bidding at $10.


26 posted on 05/10/2014 3:39:28 PM PDT by razorback-bert (Due to the high price of ammo, no warning shot will be fired.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

I think liberals need to learn to be more charitable with their own money. Most conservatives already are. I don’t want to bankrupt the Church because like it or not Atheism and Extremism are both industries that it takes money to combat. Still, the Church could tighten it’s belt a bit, but they do so much that people are not even aware of. Catholic charities, for one, does not just help Catholics.


27 posted on 05/10/2014 3:46:02 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico; Laissez-faire capitalist
...they do so much that people are not even aware of. Catholic charities, for one, does not just help Catholics.

I moved to the Philippines last year, a country that is mostly Roman Catholic (tho the Protestants are growing exponentially, as people find Christ!). I see the poverty of the hordes here and wonder why the RCC does so little to help them. Instead, they readily take the poor people's money and send a portion of it to Rome. The majority of RC's here are among the poorest.

The Roman Catholic cult is rife with liberal policies and redistribution is just a part of it. They love to display their wealth and brag about it all the time, as if it is something proper.

But, Jesus said ...

Matthew 19: 21 Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” 22 When the young man heard this, he went away sad, because he had great wealth. 23 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “Truly I tell you, it is hard for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of heaven. 24 Again I tell you, it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for someone who is rich to enter the kingdom of God.” 25 When the disciples heard this, they were greatly astonished and asked, “Who then can be saved?” 26 Jesus looked at them and said, “With man this is impossible, but with God all things are possible.” 27 Peter answered him, “We have left everything to follow you! What then will there be for us?” 28 Jesus said to them, “Truly I tell you, at the renewal of all things, when the Son of Man sits on his glorious throne, you who have followed me will also sit on twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel. 29 And everyone who has left houses or brothers or sisters or father or mother or wife[e] or children or fields for my sake will receive a hundred times as much and will inherit eternal life. 30 But many who are first will be last, and many who are last will be first.

28 posted on 05/10/2014 4:01:47 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("Let's keep the grassroots momentum going ..." -Sarah Palin 4/19/14)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Let’s trust government with the dispensation of our property. After all, in the 20th century, governments were responsible for the deaths of 260 million people.


29 posted on 05/10/2014 4:15:11 PM PDT by grumpygresh (Democrats delenda est. New US economy: Fascism on top, Socialism on the bottom.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Were these private individuals, or government people he was telling this to?


30 posted on 05/10/2014 4:26:40 PM PDT by ansel12 ((Ted Cruz and Mike Lee-both of whom sit on the Senate Judiciary Comm as Ginsberg's importance fades)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

The phrase was “legitimate redistribution of benefits,” meaning that a country that has huge prosperity and also huge taxes, as Latin American countries do, should be able to have drinkable water and passable roads for its citizens. In Spanish or Italian, the word was not “REdistribution,” but a word equivalent to distribution or sharing.

I think the Pope is a bit of a statist, which is not a good thing, and is touchingly innocent in his reliance on the State to see to this. But on the other hand, he’s also calling on governments to remember that the point of all their taxing and enforcement powers is not to enrich themselves (which they all do, especially here in the US, where anybody who goes into government emerges as a millionaire) but to use this money to provide the benefits of development to the people of their country.


31 posted on 05/10/2014 4:42:34 PM PDT by livius
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

HA!


32 posted on 05/10/2014 5:09:31 PM PDT by ealgeone (obama, borderof)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

If you have no problem with an external agency deciding how to distribute your worldly goods then you have no reason to complain when some external agency decides how to distribute the goods owned by the Vatican.


33 posted on 05/10/2014 5:10:37 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

when private people decide to give voluntarily it is charity.

when government confiscates money from private people and gives it to who they like, that’s not charity, that’s tyranny.

i have given this “pope” a lot of slack and benefit of the doubt. no more.


34 posted on 05/10/2014 5:35:40 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Does it include the pope’s golden throne?


35 posted on 05/10/2014 5:43:59 PM PDT by jersey117
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To: Secret Agent Man

If you believe that everything you have is given you by God for His purposes (anyone want to debate that?) then if anyone takes that away from you by force they are thwarting the Will of God.

God expects us to decide what is equitable.


36 posted on 05/10/2014 5:48:51 PM PDT by DManA
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To: DManA

God wants voluntary giving, giving freely without coercion, not forced giving. if he wanted forced giving, he’d also want forced worship and he would have made us so we had no choice but to worship him.


37 posted on 05/10/2014 5:52:53 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Secret Agent Man

Voluntary is the key word. Equitable is a satanic diversion.


38 posted on 05/10/2014 5:55:19 PM PDT by DManA
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To: terycarl

But it may shut their stupid progressive mouths for a few.


39 posted on 05/10/2014 6:26:23 PM PDT by nomad
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist
When the vatican empties its art and other treasures and coffers first, THEN the vatican can speak about the legitimate redistribution of wealth.

Not a minute before that is anything the church says on the topic legitimate or non-hypocritical. The vatican is one of the biggest hoarders of wealth on the planet.

40 posted on 05/10/2014 6:30:02 PM PDT by usconservative (When The Ballot Box No Longer Counts, The Ammunition Box Does. (What's In Your Ammo Box?))
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To: Laissez-faire capitalist

Why would any collective be attacking individual rights?

/sarcasm

(thanks for posting)


41 posted on 05/10/2014 6:41:02 PM PDT by PGalt
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To: DManA

further,

voluntary is decided by the individual.

equitable is decided by everyone else who wants your stuff.


42 posted on 05/10/2014 7:15:52 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: usconservative

It isn’t that the Vatican has wealth, or the magnitude of their wealth. It’s that we should collectively decide how to distribute that wealth. I nominate the UN to decide this. I propose a 100% tax on Vatican wealth and let the representatives decide on how it should be equitably be distributed.

Step one would be for the Vatican bank to open its books to UN representatives.


43 posted on 05/10/2014 7:37:38 PM PDT by DManA
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To: Secret Agent Man

I really did not have any opinion of this Pope after he was named. I did wonder why some posters on that other site were so thrilled with him. Guess we are learning.


44 posted on 05/10/2014 7:46:37 PM PDT by MamaB
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To: MamaB

well i/did think the usa media was twisting his words and possibly making him into the kind of pope THEY wanted.

i don’t think that anymore.


45 posted on 05/10/2014 9:31:32 PM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: WVKayaker

If you wanted me to read your full reply to me, or for me to even take you seriously, you should have left the word “cult” out. You have no idea how uninformed and unchristian it is of you to call me, in essence, a cult member.

In a world gone crazy, do you really want to push Conservative Catholics away by calling us cultists?

You complain about the Catholic church in the Philippines,what have you and your “cult” done to help?


46 posted on 05/11/2014 12:56:15 AM PDT by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico
You have no idea how uninformed and unchristian it is of you to call me, in essence, a cult member.

Actually, your post to me is much better described as uninformed and unChristian. The definition of a cult aptly describes the RC organization. It is an organization that sets itself up as the only true arbiter of truth.

The RCC relies on obedience to traditions of men, and only gives a nod toward the validity of Scripture as our guidepost. The RCC teaches that graven images are not only acceptable, but are to be held up as the goal of its adherents. The RCC organization says it is the sole arbiter of the truth, while perverting the truth and putting undue requirements on its members.

Jesus came to Earth to liberate from such an organization. He gave His life so that through simple faith in His sacrifice, we can have eternal life. He NEVER said that we should be part of some organization, being lead by clowns in fancy garments. Instead, He told His followers to sell everything and that He is the way, the truth, and the life.

No man comes to the Roman Catholic Church for salvation. You can only get that from Jesus Christ, and He has made us (His followers) joint heirs and grafted us directly into His family.

I am sorry if that does not line up with your catechism.

I take Scripture as my guide. I trust the Holy Spirit to guide my steps and to direct my life. If I need to pray, I can go directly to the throne of God... and find perfect peace and solace. Jesus is the only intercessor, not some statue of a dead person, nor do I find anything in Scripture which qualifies Mary as a co-redeemer, yet your organization teaches just that.

Jesus is the ONE! He is the Only one! There is no other name under heaven with which we might be saved.

I would post the Scripture references for you, but you probably wouldn't read them!

47 posted on 05/11/2014 4:57:06 AM PDT by WVKayaker ("Let's keep the grassroots momentum going ..." -Sarah Palin 4/19/14)
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To: WVKayaker; All

I really don’t need you ATTEMPTING to explain something you obviously know nothing about to some one that has spent much of their life as a Catholic. I’m sure you also believe I pray to the Pope and worship Mary, right?


48 posted on 05/11/2014 4:10:34 PM PDT by MacMattico
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To: MacMattico
If the Pope came by you, you would gladly kiss his ring hand, right?

You say redundant "Hail Mary's", don't you? You can try and justify the RC Cult, but it is based on man-made constructs, not on Scripture. It is at odds with so much Scripture, that it has become like rat poison.

Matthew 6: ...7 And when you pray, do not keep on babbling like pagans, for they think they will be heard because of their many words. 8 Do not be like them, for your Father knows what you need before you ask him.

Rat Poison = 90% food, 10% of stuff that kills you DEAD!

Just because it has so well established itself, does not add to its credibility. Satan has been around far longer than the RC cult, and has succeeded in perverting the truth so that men and women will worship the creation, rather than the Creator. Nowhere in Scripture do you find the foundations for your cult, without changing the Truth of what is written.

Paul wrote to the church at Rome. It was full of itself just like the Roman Catholics of today.

Romans 8: 1 Therefore, there is now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus, 2 because through Christ Jesus the law of the Spirit who gives life has set you free from the law of sin and death. 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh, 4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fully met in us, who do not live according to the flesh but according to the Spirit. 5 Those who live according to the flesh have their minds set on what the flesh desires; but those who live in accordance with the Spirit have their minds set on what the Spirit desires. 6 The mind governed by the flesh is death, but the mind governed by the Spirit is life and peace. 7 The mind governed by the flesh is hostile to God; it does not submit to God’s law, nor can it do so. 8 Those who are in the realm of the flesh cannot please God.


49 posted on 05/11/2014 7:21:39 PM PDT by WVKayaker ("Let's keep the grassroots momentum going ..." -Sarah Palin 4/19/14)
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To: WVKayaker
I say “Hail Mary” out of respect for the woman that became Jesus Christ's earthly mother. I may kiss the Pope's ring out of a show of respect. I don't think either one of them is Jesus Christ or are to be worshiped. Mary is a woman of great importance in the history of Christianity and The Pope is elected by Cardinals as the one chosen to lead the organization of the church, all have dedicated their lives to the service of the Lord.

Of the few people that have ever called me a Cultist, they all have had one thing in common: ignorance and judgment unbecoming of a Christian.

50 posted on 05/11/2014 9:24:33 PM PDT by MacMattico
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