Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

Skip to comments.

AMERICANS GAIN 7 MILES IN ITALY; FRENCH TURNING THE HITLER LINE (5/22/44)
Microfilm-New York Times archives, Monterey Public Library | 5/22/44 | A.C. Sedgwick, Joseph M. Levy, Harold Denny, Tillman Durdin, Alexander P. de Seversky, more

Posted on 05/22/2014 5:06:12 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson

1

 photo 0522-germans_zps5f902e1d.jpg

2

 photo 0522-germans2_zpsa3dd7019.jpg

3

 photo 0522-germans3_zps9c14acc5.jpg

4

 photo 0522-germans4_zps0b832f84.jpg

5

 photo 0522-germans5_zps5dc96bfa.jpg

6

 photo 0522-germans6_zps8cc3b057.jpg

7

 photo 0522-germans7_zpse62a4548.jpg

8

 photo 0522-germans8_zps26cd488b.jpg

9

 photo 0522-germans9_zpsd71a2b2d.jpg

10

 photo 0522-germans10_zpsc3be2670.jpg

11

 photo 0522-germans11_zps4a5cd602.jpg


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: milhist; realtime; worldwarii
Free Republic University, Department of History presents World War II Plus 70 Years: Seminar and Discussion Forum
First session: September 1, 2009. Last date to add: September 2, 2015.
Reading assignment: New York Times articles and the occasional radio broadcast delivered daily to students on the 70th anniversary of original publication date. (Previously posted articles can be found by searching on keyword “realtime” Or view Homer’s posting history .)
To add this class to or drop it from your schedule notify Admissions and Records (Attn: Homer_J_Simpson) by freepmail. Those on the Realtime +/- 70 Years ping list are automatically enrolled. Course description, prerequisites and tuition information is available at the bottom of Homer’s profile. Also visit our general discussion thread.
1 posted on 05/22/2014 5:06:12 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson
Selections from West Point Atlas for the Second World War
Anzio-Cassino Area, 1943: Attempts to Cross Rapido and Garigliano Rivers, 17-20 January 1944. Anzio Landing, 22 January 1944. German Counterattack at Anzio, 16-19 February 1944
Anzio-Cassino Area, 1943: Situation 18 May 1944 and Advance in Operation Diadem, 11-18 May. Anzio Breakout, 23-25 May and Turn to Rome, 25-30 May
The Western Pacific, New Guinea and the Philippine Islands: Allied Advances to the Marianas, Biak and Noemfoor, 22 April-24 July 1944, and Japanese Kon and “A” Go Operations 30 May-19 June 1944
China, 1941: Operation Ichigo, April-December 1944 and Situation 31 December
2 posted on 05/22/2014 5:06:47 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson
 photo 0522-germans12_zps695d7983.jpg

The Nimitz Graybook

3 posted on 05/22/2014 5:07:22 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson
 photo 0522-germans13_zps6d20bc02.jpg

Winston S. Churchill, Closing the Ring

4 posted on 05/22/2014 5:07:52 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: r9etb; PzLdr; dfwgator; Paisan; From many - one.; rockinqsranch; 2banana; henkster; meandog; ...
Germans Eye Flank (Sedgwick) – 2-3
Nazis Bar Rescue of 1,350 Orphans (Levy) – 3
Clark Has Close Call as Booby Trap Bursts 25 Feet from Jeep Touring Italy Front – 3
Eisenhower Order Alarms Vichyites (Denny) – 4
‘D-Day’ Exploiting Hit by Elmer Davis – 4
American Nurses, Invasion Boats and British Troops Prepare in Britain for D-Day (photos) – 5-6
War News Summarized – 6
Enemy is Isolated in Northern Burma – 7
Merrill’s Raiders Make War Record (Durdin) – 7
Air Power and the War (de Seversky) – 8
How Members from This Area Voted in Congress Last Week – 8
Officer’s Sacrifice Wins High Award – 9
Status of the German Air Force (by Hanson W. Baldwin) – 9
The Texts of the Day’s Communiques on the War – 10-11
5 posted on 05/22/2014 5:08:51 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 4 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.onwar.com/chrono/1944/may44/22may44.htm#

Free French capture Pico
Monday, May 22, 1944 www.onwar.com

In Italy... US 5th Army forces continue to advance. The US 2nd Corps (Keyes) advances north along the coast and Route 7. The French Expeditionary Corps captures Pico. There is continued heavy German resistance in the Liri Valley.

In the Sulu Sea... An American submarine detects the concentration of the Japanese fleet around Tawitawi.

In New Guinea... Japanese forces attack US positions around Aitape. American forces make some withdrawals.

In Wake Island... An American destroyer force bombards Japanese positions.

In Occupied France... French resistance members blow up the hydroelectric station at Bussy.


6 posted on 05/22/2014 5:13:13 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson

http://www.etherit.co.uk/month/thismonth/22.htm

May 22nd, 1944 (MONDAY)
UNITED KINGDOM:

The USAAF’s Eighth Air Force in England flies two missions.

Mission 361: 438 bombers and 568 fighters are dispatched on PFF attacks to targets in Germany and France; five bombers and seven fighters are lost:

- 342 B-17 Flying Fortresses are dispatched to the port area at Kiel, Germany; 289 hit the primary and five bomb targets of opportunity; five B-17s are lost.

- 94 of 96 B-24 Liberators hit V-weapon sites at Siracourt, France.

Escort is provided by 145 P-38 Lightnings, 95 P-47 Thunderbolts and 328 P-51 Mustangs; P-38s claim 8-1-5 Luftwaffe aircraft, P-47s claim 12-1-2 and P-51s claim 2-2-1; three P-38s, three P-47s and a P-51 are lost.

130 P-47s are dispatched on a fighter-bomber attack on railroad bridges at Hasselt and Liege, Belgium; one P-47 is lost.

Mission 363: Four B-17s drop 320,000 leaflets on The Hague, Haarlem, Rotterdam and Utrecht, The Netherlands without loss.

Twelve B-24s are dispatched on CARPETBAGGER missions without loss.

The USAAF’s Ninth Air Force on England dispatches about 330 B-26 Marauders and A-20 Havocs to bomb airfields and other targets in the Cherbourg, Calais, and Paris areas of France while a like number of P-47s and P-51s dive-bomb marshalling yards, airfields and other targets in the same general areas.

Submarine KNM Utsira (ex-HMS Variance) launched.
Corvette HMS Caistor Castle launched.

Minesweeper HMS Cheerful launched.

Salvage vessel HMS Kingarth launched.

ARCTIC SEA: U-476 encountered an enemy submarine in the Arctic Sea, but neither boat attacked.

BALTIC SEA: U-1164 hit a mine in the Baltic Sea and was damaged.

FINLAND: The Soviet 21st Army begins to transfer its tank and artillery units to the Karelian Isthmus against Finns. This is done by rail and boats during nights to keep it secret. Gen. Gusev’s 21st Army comprises of 97th and 109th Army Corps and the crack 30th Guards Army Corps.

Gusev’s Army has spent the most of May in intensive training, which is of essence, because it’s to act as the Soviet spearhead in the coming offensive against the Finnish Army. The Red Army has not forgotten the fierce resistance of the Finns in the Winter War, so as little as possible is left to chance. To practice storm-troop tactics, training-grounds has been built south-west of Leningrad to resemble as much as possible the first Finnish defence-lines. The morale of the soldiers is also taken care of: they have received intensive political training.

ITALY: US II Corps push north on Route 7. The French take Pico.

In an attack on the Hitler Line, the Canadian Three Rivers Regiment’s tanks arrive at their jump off point where 30-40 British Churchill tanks (of the North Irish Horse and the 21st RTR) sat burning in front of them. These have been destroyed by a few well-placed 88mm anti-tank guns. Fortunately the 88’s were moved back by the time the Three Rivers Regiments Shermans arrived. (Stuart Millis)

The weather clears again and the USAAF’s Fifteenth Air Force in Italy dispatches 550+ B-17s and B-24s to attack communications and military targets in central and northwestern Italy; B-17s bomb the marshalling yard at Avezzano; B-24s hit port areas at Fano, Porto Civitanova and La Spezia; fighters fly 200+ sorties in escort to bombers; there is no fighter opposition.

PACIFIC OCEAN: A US submarine spots the IJN forces near Tawi Tawi.

The destroyer escort USS England (DE-635) sinks a second Japanese submarine in three days. HIJMS RO-106, part of Operation “NA,” is sunk 250 miles north of Kavieng, New Ireland, Bismarck Archipelago.

Two USN destroyers bombard Wotje Atoll, consisting of 65 islets in the Marshall Islands.

WAKE ISLAND is bombarded by a strong US destroyer force.

CANADA: Frigate HMCS Charlottetown visited namesake enroute Halifax from builder Quebec City, Province of Quebec.

Corvette HMCS Ville de Quebec commenced workups at Bermuda.

ASW towing vessel HMCS Wildwood assigned to Esquimalt, British Columbia.

U.S.A.: Ben Prime graduates Aviation Cadet School and goes on to join the USAAF.
Destroyer USS Duncan laid down.

Minesweeper USS Inaugural laid down.

Destroyer escort USS John L Williamson laid down.

Submarine USS Trutta laid down.

Submarine USS Trepang commissioned.

Minesweeper USS Instill commissioned.
Frigate USS Forsyth launched.

Destroyer USS Little launched.

Escort carrier USS Mantanikau launched.

ATLANTIC OCEAN: Two new RCN torpedo boat flotillas start operating off coast of France.


7 posted on 05/22/2014 5:14:15 AM PDT by Homer_J_Simpson ("Every nation has the government that it deserves." - Joseph de Maistre (1753-1821))
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 6 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson
Nazis Bar Rescue of 1,350 Orphans (Levy) – 3

Interesting comments from a Romanian Jewish businessman who escaped to "Palestine." It's only be 70 years, but alert Jewish people are evacuating Europe, again.

8 posted on 05/22/2014 5:21:43 AM PDT by Tax-chick (You say I'm insane ... I say you're afraid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 5 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson

Not much news about the Eastern front lately.

Maybe because there finally seems to be movement in Italy and D Day right around the corner.


9 posted on 05/22/2014 5:26:35 AM PDT by Mikey_1962 (Democrats have destroyed more cities than Godzilla)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson

French Choose ‘Hun’ victims

London, May 21 - The French underground was reported today to be scrawling the following invasion-day slogan on walls throughout France: “Choose your Hun; there won’t be enough to go around.”


Part of the propaganda war but this short article caught my attention. It would force the issue of choosing a side for the Vichy. The use of the word Hun is a throw back to WWI but the word would still have an emotional patriotic element to it for the French.

Common American words for Germans would be “kraut”, “heinie”, “fritz”, “jerry”

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_terms_used_for_Germans


10 posted on 05/22/2014 5:37:10 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 2 | View Replies]

To: PeterPrinciple

I was listening to a lecture about the Huns recently. The professor mentioned that Kaiser Wilhelm chose to associate his imperial regime with the idea of Huns, who were actually Central Asian and not Germanic at all.


11 posted on 05/22/2014 5:40:35 AM PDT by Tax-chick (You say I'm insane ... I say you're afraid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 10 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson

Asks Ignoring of Axis

WASHINGTON, May 21 — Mr Davis renewed appeal to the people to ignore Axis reports of invasion operations which were designed to arouse hysteria. Concurrently, he told The United Press that there might be a time lag between the beginning of actual landings and the official announcement from Allied headquarters in London.

“An during that lag,” he added, “Mr Goebbels unfortunately will have the floor. But I trust the American people will remember that Joe Goebbels is in business for this own health and not for theirs.”


An interesting short article but also a notice to us to pay attention to the releases from Mr. Goebbles during the next few weeks.

I nice subtle way to call Joe a liar................


12 posted on 05/22/2014 5:45:30 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson
D-Day-Royal Canadian Navy Motor Torpedo Boat Operations: 6-8 June 1944 Combined Operations Headquarters assigned the task of protecting the Normandy invasion fleet to the Royal Canadian Navy's (RCN) 29th and 65th MTB (Motor Torpedo Boat) flotillas. These two RCN units were responsible for preventing any German warships from attacking Allied vessels as they ferried troops and equipment across the English Channel to Normandy. The 29th MTB Flotilla covered the eastern flank of the invasion force, while the 65th MTB Flotilla guarded the western flank. In the course of the initial landings on 6 June 1944 (D-Day), the RCN flotillas repulsed several attempts by German destroyers and motor torpedo boats to attack the Allied ships. Over the course of the next two days, both the 29th and 65th MTB flotillas provided vital protection for Allied ships transporting reinforcements to Normandy.
13 posted on 05/22/2014 5:47:40 AM PDT by Snowyman
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson

Regarding the article about Lt Robert Craig I am reminded about how I grew up with real heroes and the value of those heroes. This current generation doesn’t have that..............


14 posted on 05/22/2014 5:51:05 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 3 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick

It appears the press used his statement of the Huns to communicate how savage the Germans were. He used “huns” once in an official speech and then the press continued it?

Here is a little WWI history that had some impact on our attitudes toward Germans in WWII? It is important to understand how our attitudes develop. Reading the following site France was viewed as the real enemy for many in Britian during WWI and some remnants for WWII?, carry over from Napoleon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anti-German_sentiment

During World War I, German Americans were sometimes accused of being too sympathetic to Germany. Former president Theodore Roosevelt denounced “hyphenated Americanism”, insisting that dual loyalties were impossible in wartime. A small minority came out for Germany, or ridiculed the British (as did H. L. Mencken). Similarly, Harvard psychology professor Hugo Münsterberg dropped his efforts to mediate between America and Germany, and threw his efforts behind the German cause.[13]

The Justice Department attempted to prepare a list of all German aliens, counting approximately 480,000 of them, more than 4,000 of whom were imprisoned in 1917-18. The allegations included spying for Germany, or endorsing the German war effort.[14] Thousands were forced to buy war bonds to show their loyalty.[15] The Red Cross barred individuals with German last names from joining in fear of sabotage. One person was killed by a mob; in Collinsville, Illinois, German-born Robert Prager was dragged from jail as a suspected spy and lynched.[16]

An old black and white comic strip. Two characters are talking about a clown that was bought for a birthday present. One character smashes the doll because it was made in Germany.

A 1917 comic strip in which the character smashes a clown doll present because it was made in Germany.
Anti-German sentiment was stoked by the success of German saboteurs in the 1916 bombing of Black Tom island; the operation had been directed and financed by German intelligence officers under diplomatic cover.[17]

When the United States entered the war in 1917, some German Americans were looked upon with suspicion and attacked regarding their loyalty. Some aliens were convicted and imprisoned on charges of sedition, for refusing to swear allegiance to the United States war effort.[18]

In Chicago, Frederick Stock was forced to step down as conductor of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra until he finalized his naturalization papers. Orchestras replaced music by German composer Wagner with French composer Berlioz.

The town, Berlin, Michigan, was changed to Marne, Michigan (honoring those who fought in the Battle of Marne).

German street names in many cities were changed. German and Berlin streets in Cincinnati became English and Woodward.[19] In Chicago Lubeck, Frankfort, and Hamburg streets were renamed Dickens, Charleston, and Shakespeare.[20][21] In New Orleans, Berlin Street was renamed for General Pershing, head of the American Expeditionary Force.[22]

Businesses changed their names. In Chicago, German Hospital became Grant Hospital.[20] In New York, the giant Germania Life Insurance Company became Guardian.[23]

Many schools stopped teaching German language classes.[19] The City College of New York continued teaching German courses, but reduced the number of credits students could receive for them.[24] Books published in German were removed from libraries or even burned.[19][25] In Cincinnati, the public library was asked to withdraw all German books from its shelves.[26] In Iowa, in the 1918 Babel Proclamation, the governor prohibited all foreign languages in schools and public places. Nebraska banned instruction in any language except English, but the U.S. Supreme Court ruled the ban illegal in 1923 (Meyer v. Nebraska).[27]

Vocabulary changed. Sauerkraut came to be called “liberty cabbage”,[22] German measles became “liberty measles”, hamburgers became “liberty sandwiches”[22] and dachshunds became “liberty pups”.[28]

The response of German Americans to these tactics was often to Americanize names (e.g. Schmidt to Smith, Müller to Miller) and to limit the use of the German language in public places, especially churches.[29


15 posted on 05/22/2014 6:20:34 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: PeterPrinciple

You’d think German measles would remain “German measles,” since measles are bad.


16 posted on 05/22/2014 7:27:19 AM PDT by Tax-chick (You say I'm insane ... I say you're afraid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson

May 22, 1944:


"These Hungarian women and children, possibly an extended family, were assembled for a photograph in front of an electrified fence at Auschwitz-Birkenau."



17 posted on 05/22/2014 7:41:05 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: PeterPrinciple; Tax-chick; Homer_J_Simpson
PeterPrinciple: "Here is a little WWI history that had some impact on our attitudes toward Germans in WWII?"

All of my ancestors were "German-Americans", some of more recent arrival than others (the first came around 1700).
None that I know of suffered persecution as a result of the First World War.
Many grew up speaking German (well, Pennsylvania-Dutch) at home, and English out in the world.
Their children learned English at home, and some modified their names, long before the First World War.

It's important to remember that Americans of German descent are second in numbers only to Americans of English descent, and many (including my ancestors) were involved in founding & defending our republic.
Also, there's no comparison of the treatment of German-Americans (or Italian-Americans) to that of Japanese-Americans who were rounded up wholesale, regardless of reasonable suspicions or not.
Germans or Italians were only arrested on probable cause.

18 posted on 05/22/2014 8:05:04 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: BroJoeK

I did not mean to imply persecution of Germans. Just that these were interesting observations, the news that was read, not the majority of views.

It is interesting that town names were changed. I suspect that most of those towns had heavy German population and they were the ones promoting the name change to show their allegiance.

Some things never change, todays headline is Senate votes to change name of Redskins. But today, I don’t see the Indians that worried about the name change.

Probable cause is very loose terminology. Interesting that if you bought a bond, you might no longer be suspect. There were similarities and differences with WWII. I have no problem with the way the Japanese and Germans were handled in WWII. It was the RECENT immigrants that were suspect and It was war, there were many whose allegiance were to the home country and it took a while to sort it out. and it WAS sorted out. Perfect and fair, hell no but it never will be.

Hindsight gives a different perspective. I was just interested in the carry over of attitudes for WWII. “Hun” does not evoke a gut feeling for me in my generation. “Jerry” is a friendly term in many ways. “Heine” was short for Heinrich a common name but evokes a juvenile derogatory thought.


19 posted on 05/22/2014 8:58:49 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson
It's interesting to watch the "exile armies" of French and Poles so involved in the Italian fighting. My amateur impression is that fighting for the nation was common in ancient Greece and Rome (think Pericles' funeral oration), but once European wars became squabbles among kings their armies (including mercenaries) became more like private property.

Certainly by the time of the French and American revolutions the idea of fighting and dying for the nation was back, but I don't know of any circumstance like this - large-scale use of foreign nationals, organized as national units after their homelands were conquered, in the campaign against the enemy.

20 posted on 05/22/2014 9:28:48 AM PDT by untenured
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: BroJoeK; PeterPrinciple

My father’s family also came to the United States from Germany; Stettin, in fact, 1848. My Great-Great Grandfather was a tailor, a trade he learned in the Prussian Army. They, like so many other other Germans, settled in Wisconsin. There are no family histories of any sort of ethnic abuse, but that’s probably because their communities were ethnically German. Also, many of the German families who arrived during the great German immigration in 1848 had been here three generations. A lot of Germans served in the Civil War, including my great-great-grandfather. German was spoken in their home until sometime in the early 1900s. My grandfather was 17 when we entered WW1, and did not serve. There is some suspicion his background kept him out.

Getting back to the topic, in World War 2 Americans with strong ethnic German ties tended to be assigned to the Pacific Theater, generals Krueger and Eichelberger being prime examples.

What was done with Germans in the United States is nothing compared to what Stalin did to the Volga Germans in the USSR during World War 2. Ironically, if you look up the Volga Germans, you would find that a lot of them emigrated from Russia to the United States in the later 1800s, and settled in Harris County Nebraska. Their ethnic culture was a curious mix of primarily German, but with some Russian mixed in.


21 posted on 05/22/2014 11:32:24 AM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: PeterPrinciple

“Vocabulary changed. Sauerkraut came to be called “liberty cabbage”,[22] German measles became “liberty measles”, hamburgers became “liberty sandwiches”[22] and dachshunds became “liberty pups”.[28]”

And I thought “Freedom Fries” was stupid, but apparently there’s a past history of this kind of ridiculousness.


22 posted on 05/22/2014 12:11:56 PM PDT by Rebelbase (Tagline: optional, printed after your name on post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 15 | View Replies]

To: henkster

It’s my understanding that the smoked sausages Texas were created by German immigrants.

God bless’em.


23 posted on 05/22/2014 12:13:17 PM PDT by Rebelbase (Tagline: optional, printed after your name on post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson

“WAKE ISLAND is bombarded by a strong US destroyer force.”

Another 15 months of misery in store for those unfortunate and abandoned Jap soldiers.


24 posted on 05/22/2014 12:18:08 PM PDT by Rebelbase (Tagline: optional, printed after your name on post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 7 | View Replies]

To: Rebelbase

Go to Fredricksburg, Texas, some time. They kept the German heritage, you can get some very good German/Texas food.

I suggest Opa’s Sausage at The Auslander

http://www.theauslander.com/

Also, since Chester W. Nimitz hailed from Fredricksburg, you can tour the National Museum of the Pacific War.


25 posted on 05/22/2014 12:21:08 PM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 23 | View Replies]

To: Homer_J_Simpson

deSeversky’s rant on page 8 is about as absurd as I’ve seen from him.


26 posted on 05/22/2014 12:28:10 PM PDT by Rebelbase (Tagline: optional, printed after your name on post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 1 | View Replies]

To: henkster

I’m planning on ordering a Christmas dinner of brisket and sausages from Kruez Market in Lockhart this year.


27 posted on 05/22/2014 12:30:37 PM PDT by Rebelbase (Tagline: optional, printed after your name on post)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 25 | View Replies]

To: Rebelbase

You still read de Seversky? I gave up on him long ago. I’m convinced he drank heavily.


28 posted on 05/22/2014 12:33:56 PM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 26 | View Replies]

To: BroJoeK; henkster; Tax-chick; Homer_J_Simpson
Jews whose parents were murdered in Balkans

There really can't be any doubt in the minds of Times readers what the Nazis are doing in Eastern Europe.

29 posted on 05/22/2014 12:36:48 PM PDT by colorado tanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 18 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker; BroJoeK; Tax-chick; fso301; Homer_J_Simpson

Yes, we all know that the Jews are being killed. But it’s another thing altogether for GIs from Kenosha, Jacksonville and Sacramento to walk through Buchenwald and see for themselves exactly what that means. That hasn’t happened. Yet.

And by the way, those guys never walked through the Gulag. It’s the only reason the left has been able to keep its love of communism from being as loathed as the Nazis.


30 posted on 05/22/2014 12:41:11 PM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker

I think the missing piece of information is the industrial scale of the extermination camps. It’s clear that very large numbers of Jews are being killed, but the whole picture isn’t there.


31 posted on 05/22/2014 12:42:54 PM PDT by Tax-chick (You say I'm insane ... I say you're afraid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 29 | View Replies]

To: henkster

Same point I was making. I’ve just reached the liberation of the camps in Germany in “The Guns at Last Light.”


32 posted on 05/22/2014 12:45:40 PM PDT by Tax-chick (You say I'm insane ... I say you're afraid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: henkster; Tax-chick
Excellent point, henkster. It's one thing to know Jews are being killed, but no one had killed on an industrial scale and method before this. The GI Joes did not know what they would find in the camps.

The regiment that stumbled across Dachau originated in the Colorado National Guard. The battalion commander that found the camp was Felix Sparks of Colorado and I was fortunate enough to hear him speak about it. All of the troops were shocked by what they found, although he forcefully denied the persistent rumors that his troops lost discipline and began killing guards. Not that they didn't deserve it.

That said, the people high in the Roosevelt administration with access to the Times and even better information being supplied by Jewish groups should have done much more to get Jews out of occupied Europe. We've had several discussions in these threads about people claiming to be helpful and attending meetings and conferences who were in fact decidedly unhelpful.

33 posted on 05/22/2014 2:52:12 PM PDT by colorado tanker
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick
Kaiser Wilhelm chose to associate his imperial regime with the idea of Huns, who were actually Central Asian and not Germanic at all.

Yep, their language isn't Indo-European either.

34 posted on 05/22/2014 4:00:55 PM PDT by fso301 (uires that you believe)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 11 | View Replies]

To: henkster; colorado tanker; BroJoeK; Tax-chick; fso301; Homer_J_Simpson
And by the way, those guys never walked through the Gulag. It’s the only reason the left has been able to keep its love of communism from being as loathed as the Nazis.

Add to that the effect on leftist Jews had Stalin not died at the outset of the Doctor's Plot.

35 posted on 05/22/2014 4:04:48 PM PDT by fso301 (uires that you believe)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 30 | View Replies]

To: fso301

Someone had a piece up about a book about the Gulag, “Walking Around Kolyma” or something like that, in the last few days.

I saw some video of one of the slave labor camps in the Russian Far East on Michael Palin’s “Full Circle” program. It was so far from anywhere! And “to be fair,” those camps weren’t organized for the purpose of killing people in large numbers. You weren’t going to walk into a Gulag establishment unexpectedly and find bodies stacked because the ovens couldn’t burn them fast enough.


36 posted on 05/22/2014 4:07:40 PM PDT by Tax-chick (You say I'm insane ... I say you're afraid.)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 35 | View Replies]

To: Tax-chick
Someone had a piece up about a book about the Gulag, “Walking Around Kolyma” or something like that, in the last few days.

That vaguely rings a bell.

I saw some video of one of the slave labor camps in the Russian Far East on Michael Palin’s “Full Circle” program. It was so far from anywhere! And “to be fair,” those camps weren’t organized for the purpose of killing people in large numbers. You weren’t going to walk into a Gulag establishment unexpectedly and find bodies stacked because the ovens couldn’t burn them fast enough.

The German concentration camp system basically evolved from the Gulag. The death camps were more of a German inovation.

37 posted on 05/22/2014 4:26:35 PM PDT by fso301 (uires that you believe)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 36 | View Replies]

To: colorado tanker; BroJoeK

One American who was decidedly very helpful was Herman Wells, President of Indiana University. He brought a lot of Jews out of Germany on professorships, “exchange programs” and really whatever he could to get around immigration quotas. It was not only in the hard sciences, which gave IU strong Schools of Medicine and Chemistry. Wells brought over quality people in literature and Music, and made IU one of the top schools in the country in Music and Germanic Languages.

I had the privilege the privilege of taking two courses from one of those remarkable gentlemen, Henry H. H. Remak. Every year Herr Remak and his gracious wife would host a dinner for the senior German students, and in 1981 there were about a dozen of us. It was a wonderful evening, the memory of which I will always treasure.


38 posted on 05/22/2014 5:54:23 PM PDT by henkster (Do I really need a sarcasm tag?)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 33 | View Replies]

To: henkster; PeterPrinciple
henkster: "My father’s family also came to the United States from Germany; Stettin, in fact, 1848.
My Great-Great Grandfather was a tailor, a trade he learned in the Prussian Army."

Stettin? Army? Ah, so, one of Uncle Otto's Pomeranian grenadiers? And young henkster escaped in 1848, after the revolution?

My most recent arriving ancestors escaped from East Frisia, aound 1860 to avoid a draft -- when Hannover was preparing for war against Prussia.
They landed near Springfield, Illinois, and two military age brothers (one my great-grandfather), neither speaking English, soon enlisted in Lincoln's Union Army.
Though captured he was released (by Nathan Bedford Forrest), though wounded he survived (at Fort Blakely, Mobile Bay), and eventually received a veteran's pension, which, iirc, was about the same as the salary my young grandmother received for teaching elementary school, in Kansas.

The point of this discussion is that "German-Americans" served loyally in every US war, and were not automatically held in suspicion during the First World War.

The fact that my Dad was sent to MacArthur's command may have less to do with his ancestry than to the mistaken assumption that he was related to another very famous MacArthur soldier, from the First World War... ;-)

39 posted on 05/23/2014 3:57:25 AM PDT by BroJoeK (a little historical perspective....)
[ Post Reply | Private Reply | To 21 | View Replies]

Disclaimer: Opinions posted on Free Republic are those of the individual posters and do not necessarily represent the opinion of Free Republic or its management. All materials posted herein are protected by copyright law and the exemption for fair use of copyrighted works.

Free Republic
Browse · Search
General/Chat
Topics · Post Article

FreeRepublic, LLC, PO BOX 9771, FRESNO, CA 93794
FreeRepublic.com is powered by software copyright 2000-2008 John Robinson