Skip to comments.Sad at results of Educational Testing. Any suggestions going forward? (Vanity)
Posted on 05/30/2014 9:47:04 PM PDT by MacMattico
I've brought up education issues before. I've tried to help other people's children with school difficulties and dealing with school administration. I have an Education background. My first child is a HS student and even with all of the public school problems we encounter, she enjoys her school (for the most part) and it is a small enough place where everybody pretty much knows everyone else. My daughter has nearly a 4.0 average. I went to the same school and was happy and grade obsessed. I never could understand how people thought HS was "hard". I must have been obnoxious. Going into the Education field (not any longer there) I got an attitude adjustment and realized different people have different strengths and weaknesses, and grades aren't everything.
But you know how when it comes to your own family things can seem so hard and different? My youngest daughter is in 6th grade. She is adopted, and I don't mean to imply anything by that except that we have no record of her life before age 1 and don't know anything about who her biological parents were or prenatal care.
She has really struggled with school this year. Common core hit really hard. She will pass, but with very low grades in the grade level curriculum, and I think some of these grades have been inflated because she is such a nice, outgoing kid, the most helpful,and that she tries so hard, and her teachers just love her. But we wanted a true reflection of her abilities so we took her for some outside testing.
Her IQ came back at 81. I'll be honest and tell you this broke my heart. She is also so trusting it seems no matter how much we try to teach her right and wrong that she has no impulse control and is going to get herself into some real trouble later in life. I hate to say it but the kind of kid that you could give the whole "don't take candy from strangers" talk to and five minutes later she'd be doing just that. It takes hours to get her through homework and it's like she never was at school that day sometimes-- no retention whatsoever. We study for a history test and even though it takes forever, she'll seem to understand the material and then fail the test miserably. I can't say "you didn't study" when I studied hours with her!
So a few weeks ago I stopped studying with her and only helped with homework when specifically asked a question because I didn't want her going in with perfect homework I had basically done. I wanted them to see her real work. Needless to say, she's not doing well. We got her a tutor once a week. When going through things one on one with someone outside the family, homework is done but info not retained.
The school has said because she is passing, she will not qualify to take special Ed classes but need to pass a foreign language(starting next year) and all of the usual high school courses including trigonometry and lab sciences. I know in my heart she can't do it. I'm not sure what to do. Even homeschooling I don't think I could teach her these things, and she loves school-- sports, friends and clubs especially. Testing by the school and by the private educational psychologist we brought her to both say she is "a few points above" being given Special Education services in NY. They did give her an IEP, though, which allows her to take a test in a quiet area and she can have a little extra time, but that's not helping the situation. She did come home crying after a state test because they had her take it in the regular classroom and she needs to whisper hard words and talk out math problems if she even has a chance to get them right. Other kids were telling her to shut up, and complaining she was bothering them. Which, really, she was but she needed to do that. She cried that she had told the sub she usually takes tests away from the group but was told no.
I'm very scared, as her mom, about her future. We're not sure what to do. Some days we think she'll never be able to live on her own. And it's not her fault but taking every evening doing homework and giving her all my attention and ignoring family time has caused us all great stress. She and I get so stressed it becomes a shouting match. Which I know is so wrong. And we're not even in jr high until next year... The good thing is, they believe their to be no mental health issues.
You need to get her testing by a learning specialist. She also needs to be evaluated for either down’s syndrome or fetal alcohol syndrome. Your child needs additional help. Federal mandates (and I really hate them) apply in educational settings. You will have to fight the school and the policies but work towards an IEP for her. You will need the evaluations to get this in place.
If you can put her in private school.
The problem is not that your child’s IQ is 81 but that she is being raised by parents whose IQ is much higher. Biological parents have some kind of special gift for their own children, no matter what their IQ.
This is not a calamity. I think you are suffering right now from a sudden encounter with the facts, but you can compensate for this and have a wonderful, competent child. Probably you have to simplify your initial impulses in some way.
The challenge is probably going to be a great gift to you and your child. One person’s opinion, anyway.
I agree with firebrand. I don’t think anyone here is going to say there are easy solutions. The good thing is that you love your daughter and want to do what is best for her.
The solution is “Separation of School and State”. Put the kid in private school and put off buying the new Honda or end the yearly family vacation tradition.
We sacrifice to send our kids to a Christian based private school. The cost is around $500 per month per kid....or $15 per kid-day. Most parents spend way over that on after school snacks and bullshiite.
Your Public School is just like all the rest; a union operated, taxpayer funded hellhole. Missing out on government funded sports programs is NOT a loss!
It sounds like your daughter has memory issues like Dori in Finding Nemo. Once you come to an acceptance of her abilities, you can come up with a plan or rather a guide for her future and for maximizing her potential. Surround her with loving, Christian persons and pray for God to guide you and her as she matures. She can have a very happy, fulfilling life. It may not be what you would find fulfilling, but your wants don’t matter. Love her and nurture her where she is. Let God take care of the hard stuff.
I’m not sure when things are ever ‘OK’; we just hang in there and do our best. Her IQ is whatever her IQ is. Grades are not determinants of what the rest of her life will be, nor, presumably, of the support she will receive from her family now or in the future.
We’re homeschooling, so I have no advice for the school issues themselves. But I did want to share this thought.
First, your daughter sounds like a delightful *person*, and that by itself is worth gold! She could be the opposite, you know — bright as a whip but mean and spiteful. Instead she’s lovely and good, and that’s worth an awful lot.
My thought is that though of course you want her to do well in school, you should also be thinking about what she can do with her entire life. For instance, I am not sure trig is going to be a terribly useful information set for her to learn. But maybe she has less intellectual but still valuable skills that she could use to make a living (or if not actually a living, then at least make herself happy by being useful and busy). For instance, is she clever with her hands? Does she have a good eye for color? Can she draw well? I wonder if some sort of trade or craft might be her ticket. For example, I have a friend who has always been artsy-craftsy but couldn’t seem to make a living from it. But in this last year she bought a spinning wheel and took lessons on how to use it. She also contacted alpaca owners and got raw wool from them. Now she is dyeing and spinning some really beautiful and unusual yarns (with things like gold and sparkly beads worked into the yarn) and it’s selling like hotcakes on Etsy and at farmers markets that she takes it to. She is well on her way (finally) to becoming financially independent, and although what she does takes shrewdness and judgment, as well as an artistic sense, she doesn’t have to remember numbers or anything like that. She’s a craftsperson now and she loves it.
Anyway, I just wanted to remind you to look for and help develop any special talents your daughter may have. Looking so hard at what’s missing, sometimes it’s hard to see the good things that are there already. Best of luck!!!
I have only the sparsest experience teaching academic subjects, but I did give guitar lessons for many years. So these are not highly organized thoughts.
Is there any kind of craft, with hands, with focus, with satisfactory result at the end you might get her involved in? Some people learn better with their hands.
Maybe that chain is not established for her. (think: painting, say) Interest > have idea > gather materials > focus > work while focused > happy result.
Maybe mystery books. Maybe playing an instrument. Does she read with reasonable ease, or does she stumble? Have you had her checked for dyslexia?
There are many people for whom solving a math problem bears no satisfaction. Thus they don’t internally assemble the steps req’d to do so and they resist that assemblage since they don’t see the point. Or they can’t readily (because they are inexperienced doing it) command their brains to concentrate and keep the steps in separate boxes as part of the problem solving process.
I believe that someone in the position you describe, eg; her social skills appear to come easily but her learning skills are underdeveloped, needs to experience some successes in the learning department in order to stoke her motivation and confidence. She needs to feel that she can have success not necessarily immersed in a gaggle of other people. Most crafts, or learning an instrument, are solitary pursuits. Maybe some successes out of a social climate would help her.
Why don’t you consider technical school? Although I have no
idea how that works pre-j.h.
I have a relative who is a SPED director and she constantly tells me that the “battle Moms” get the iep’s,
Many prayers for you.
These were my thoughts all along, and why we took her to a private Educational Psychologist (may I add at $200/hr) who basically said go with what the school is doing. She told us we could go to a higher level of testing with a specialist but thought we’d just be paying thousands of dollars for the same results. I’m trying to be proactive because I see HS on the horizon and I’m worried.
I looked at Private schools in our area and the Catholic ones (we are Catholic) don’t have much in the Special Ed dept and two others said if
your child needs Special Ed services, they get sent to the local (very good) public school for part of the day! (not our district)
If I may say so, the first part is the hard part, or at least the main part. Having attended to that, it is the DETAILS that may be entrusted to God's wisdom.
It all depends on one’s perspective. And maybe it is hard to accept reality sometimes, so we need God to help us do that. I can see it both ways. :-)
My daughter is a wonderful person, don’t get me wrong. I love her with all my heart and anyone that comes in contact with her is completely drawn to her personality. It is one of her greatest assets. She is the sweetest, most helpful person in this household! She is willing, and has, helped anyone who needs it in anyway she can.
She does love to work with her hands and be active. In NY we have BOCES, which is technical education, but still certain courses must be passed to graduate and I’m afraid that her social skills will allow her to be taken advantage of monetarily and in every other way. She went to a play with school and they stopped on the way back to get dinner. She was so excited to be with friends and buy her own food at a rest area! We gave her a $20 bill. She had used $10 of it at the play for a souvenir and had $10 left. Another student had no money. They kept complaining they were hungry. With a big heart she bought them dinner, leaving no money for herself. She went ten hours without eating. I had went through every scenario with her on how to make sure she would have money to eat. I even said if the situation arose where she wanted to help someone, get a teacher to help her figure out the money situation. Instead she just gave it all away.
The bad news is IQ counts, for a lot. The good news is that it’s not everything. One thing I would suggest is that please don’t tell her about the IQ number....it will not be helpful.
The great boxer M. Ali had an IQ of 78 & he did fine. She can do will in the right environment.
There are MANY, MANY, fields this young lady could support herself in life doing without trigonometry ect. ect., wedding cake bakery, floral
design, landscape design, interior design, there are many creative fields
she could choose and have a small business of her own!!!! I was never
great at math, science, I did love history and English but my true passion
was in the food industry!!!! I LOVE TO BAKE and have had very successful small businesses doing just that!!!!
I think you will find a VERY creative streak in this child if you just lighten
up and search it out!!!! Maybe she is NOT meant for college but a culinary
Type of school. A wedding cake today costs about $500.00-$1000.00
many states have cottage kitchen laws where cup cakes and wedding cakes can be made and sold from your own home!!!!
There are many options for this child STOP WORRYING and search out
Because she is within the huge majority in the bell curve: 80 to 120 IQ. That is perfectly adequate for her to function in society. The real danger is that the expectations of the adoptive parents can be too high and leave the child with enduring feeling of inferiority. It’s a blessing that you discovered this now and can adjust your teaching within the family to her level.
I wouldn’t worry about technical school or whatever. Those worries are minor. The big one is to not expect her to perform above her ability. It’s more of a day-to-day, nurturing effort rather than any particular course of action, like private school or homeschooling, although both of those could be good.
Be VERY THANKFUL this wonderful child has a heart like this, she is a very giving child a VERY SPECIAL HEART!!!! She IS VERY social which
WILL help her in business, she WILL be fine you are worrying way to much be VERY thankful you are blessed with such a thoughtful human
being she is VERY young and I bet she grows up to be a VERY creative
My thoughts and prayers are with you. Your letter could have been written by my wife with a few changes. Tenth grade daughter, has within the year shown anxiety disorder and OCD. Wonderful girl, but it takes her a LONG time now to get her homework done, and perceived slights can set her mood back.
BUT - she is also very kind, friendly, etc. The story about the money sounds familiar from when she was much younger.
In our state (Washington) the schools need to make allowances for kids that have trouble with learning, even if they don’t get the worst grades. BUT - you need to push them on it. We have her in counseling and the pyschologist was able to push it. We also had a dear friend and one of her teachers really step up to the plate to advocate for her. “Advocate” is a good term - the child can’t do it, and the schools don’t want to (can’t afford) to do it. So the parents (and perhaps a professional) have to.
For us, her spending all of her time studying (hence the okay grades, not A’s like before, but B’s and C’s) short-changed her on a “normal” social life. lack of sleep was becoming an issue. There were some other aspects too that forced the school to adopt some changes for her. We finally have a plan in place that gives her a few more options (taking more time on some lessons, reduced load on some lessons, etc.) Before that we had talked with her teachers and some of them made changes on their own to accomodate her. (At some resistance by our daughter as she didn’t want any special treatment.)
And yes - the long hours of studying, with me and mom helping, is wearing on the entire family.
Find others in your situation. In the state of Washington they have an “obudsman” for disabilities. Find and use someone like that. I still have a hard time that my daughter has a “disability”. “Come on - just DO YOUR WORK!” still comes out once in awhile. But as our one friend said, she has a disability just the same as a child without a leg. And you wouldn’t yell at the legless child to run faster.
One of the things my wife and I just learned in counseling with our daughter (”DBT” class) was “acceptance”. Not giving up, or giving in, but acceptance of one’s circumstance at a particular moment. Hard to do.
May God continue to watch over ALL our children.
“They did give her an IEP, though ...”
Sorry - I should have read your post better. You obviously know what you are doing. But it IS so frustrating.
I can’t offer much, but one trick is to make sure closed captioning is on for every television program she watches. It can help reading skills.
The story precisely describes the real situation at a local restaurant. The best employee is developmentally disabled.
Thank you. She does have a wonderful heart and doesn’t let things bother her. I love her to pieces! I just want the best for her, and want to know the best way to go about that.
That’s ok! She’s got an IEP but is not in the Special Ed program, which I didn’t know was possible until this year. The private Educational Psychologist said the school was doing us a favor because with her test scores being above the cut off (just above) they didn’t have to give her the IEP. This at least allows her extra time for tests in a quiet place. And a resource class (basically a study hall with teachers and aids to help) 3x a week.
Thank you. My thoughts and prayers with you also. My daughter has always loved going to school, but that is starting to change as we get into the higher grades. I think it’s becoming overwhelming. We will work on it!
I’ve come to the realization that we all have different qualities and challenges. My older daughter with the high grades is much less happy go lucky and probably couldn’t deal with the challenges younger daughter does. Older daughter was furious when we were ecstatic that younger daughter had a report card that showed she had worked hard. Older daughter was mad that she wasn’t given more credit for her grades being so much higher. I think she’s finally understanding younger daughter works just as hard or harder to achieve what she does.
The story precisely describes the real situation at a local restaurant. The best employee is developmentally disabled.
A quick-serve savant! What a concept!
Methinks the pay scales at the Onion must be substandard. How else would their reporter have gathered such an accurate picture than by having had to work at a joint like the Frontage Road BK?
Sorry to hear about your troubles with your daughter.
Since nobody said it so far, I will: do NOT put faith into her IQ test. From what you say, the way she approaches things and tests may have resulted in a low number and some people just can’t take tests.
DO NOT GIVE UP on her.
Is she able to follow logic and rationalize? Explaining to her WHY she needs to do whatever may help her understand things.
There are people who just have difficulties taking tests — did you try to give her a “test” informally at home — not call it a test, just review some material you just went over, ask her questions about what you just covered to see if retention is really the problem or test taking.
Maybe you can teach her to NOT talk out loud when thinking her math problems through.
What I see from the limited info is that on one hand you truly love her, and want to help her, but on the other hand, you are accepting judgments of others which may be totally wrong.
I recommend turning over a new leaf, so to speak.
You also mention that socially she is active. There are many jobs where social skills are more important.
Did you check out some other options for help?
I just did a search on the internet and came across:
they say they can schedule an assessment of your child and are able to help with childhood learning disabilities, etc.
I don’t know anything about them — but the main point I am trying to make is for you to keep your hope, do not give up and keep searching for help for your child.
Good luck and best wishes
I will ping my Missus - she may not be able to respond until later. She will be able to share some experience with our adopted son.
My thought is to concentrate on those things that your child has demonstrated an affinity for. First among these is cultivation of the virtues. Second is to teach her to work and to realize the benefits of what her work can bring to herself and to others.
And the bottom line - “Love never faileth.” Never does.
“The great boxer M. Ali had an IQ of 78”
I find that extremely hard to believe. I never thought Ali was a genius, but he always seemed sharp and articulate, until the decline of his later years obviously.
Of course I never met him in real life or anything, but one saw plenty of him in live interviews, etc.
One of the authors of Common Core stated this week that the program was written to lower white privilege. Common Core’s purpose is to pull smarter students down and ruin their education.
Advice: Home school. Teach your children traditional reading, writing, and mathematics.
Standard essential nutrients we don't get in high enough quantities:
Magnesium, Vitamin K, Vitamin D, Omega-3s (salmon) -
Magnesium May Improve Memory
Does Vitamin D Deficiency Cause Memory Loss?
Higher vitamin K levels associated with improved verbal episodic memory
Omega-3 Intake Improves Memory In Young Adults
A lot of research has been done on common foods, so investigate things like blueberries (encourages neuron growth) and white and green tea. Nootrophics:
These are alao known as "smart drugs." Natural derivative examples include Sulbutiamine, Citicoline, Alpha-GPC, among others. Both I and my wife can vouch that these help with focus and memorizing. Other exist that appear to be completely engineered, and these also work, but I would always keep ingested items for kids as close to naturally available options as is possible.
This is not diagnosis, but rather a possibility: her frontal lobe is "lazy," so the limbic center is not being sufficiently controlled for her to focus. If this happens to be the case, something like Vyvanse would "wake up" the lobe, putting it in gear to control the limbic system.
It's quite possible that your daughter has a higher IQ--probably not above average, but higher than 81--but that she could not focus while taking the "IQ test," causing the score to be lowered. Find a female Christian child psychologist in your area and let her do a workup on your daughter; if it isn't what I'm guessing here, there are other possibilities and other options.
P.S. My 17yo daughter is adopted, and my 29yo biological son was/is a certifiable genius (National GeoBee, International Baccalaureate, Rose-Hulman). Her elementary school years were plagued by the same issues as your daughter has, and she kept comparing herself to her brother, even though we never did it, and always told her she was her own person and God had His own plans for her. She is dual-enrolling in local com-col and senior year of high school, knows she wants to be a nurse, and has her education all mapped out ahead of her. I am praying a similar future for you and for your daughter.
TRUST YOUR GUT FEELINGS about your daughter's abilities and then act according to those feelings.
IQ test are unreliable.
Re: What to do
Consider homeschooling. You know your daughter, her strengths and weakness, far better than any school functionary. **You** can best prepare her for life as an adult and cultivate her talents.
So?...Do you think that being around gangs of impulsive school kids it the best way to curb impulsivity in your daughter? I don't think so. She needs the quiet reassurance of **your** CALM presence on which to model her behavior.
Re: School friends
Your daughter does not seem likely to be moving toward academic excellence. This means she will not be making friends with, or associating with, those kids who are tracking in the AP ( Advanced College Placement) courses. If she is impulsive will be likely be running with the worst elements and dregs of the school.
Every parent who I have know who has had a wayward child has given me some variant of , “ It was his friends he met in school”.
Re: Academic Excellence
A successful life is often built upon solid character, honesty, and reliability. These the very qualities that are least likely to be nurtured in a the government school kiddie factories.
That is why I said you will have to FIGHT. You have to keep going at it. Is there any way you can home school? zI know some parents ( more than a dozen over the years) and they had to keep fighting. Be your child’s advocate. Go in with the results. Find out what the criteria are for special ed. I would think her IQ would make her eligible for help.
This is what happened when we let the feds decide what education should be. Not a real surprise all things considered.
I wish you well. It is a long up hill battle
So there are good lessons for everyone here. I’ve heard kids complain when their parents are complimented on the kids’ achievements. “Good work, Mom!” people say when the kid gets some kind of success. “Hey. I did that. Not my mom.” They don’t say it that rudely, but they do love to get praise and credit for what they do. Not for every little thing but for the more important victories.
Can you give a source on that Common Core remark? I believe it but would like to cite it to others. Thanks!
Find a metronome app or a real metronome and teach her to use it.
Oh and there are special ways to count time by breaking each beat down. There’s no shame at all in counting each measure out this way to be sure each note is on the proper beat, practicing it slowly then getting up to the proper tempo.
I did the band thing for 6 years and was by no means talented, but I got by pretty well using this...made up for being massively uncoordinated.
There’s info on Ali’s IQ testing on the internet that seems valid. It surprised me also.
Let me know what you think.
I don’t get that from the clip. He seems to be saying that it will help kids learn to read and that everyone should have that opportunity, not just white kids. But that is quite different from saying Common Core was created to dumb the white kids down. It was garbled, so I’m not sure I caught everything.
Indeed. Stylistically there’s nothing at all wrong with that when it’s a choice. It adds flavor and interest to the music!
At the same time, for a struggling beginner it helps to learn the rules starting off, as well as the little tricks to help you get there. School bands sadly aren’t big on improv.
I found counting off each note to understand where it fits into the beat to be one of the most useful learning tools, hence I’m cheerful to pass it along to someone else who’s struggling a bit in the hopes it helps them as well.
‘Her IQ came back at 81’
I just looked it up and that is just a hair below average and 68% of the test takers are average, where average starts at 85.
Her problems with taking tests in general could account for it.
Thanks everyone! It may be an up hill battle at times but you’ve all helped me to look at things more positively. Thank you for all the great advice!