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NRA says Open Carry Texas demonstrations 'downright scary'
Foxnews ^ | 6/3/2014 | Foxnews

Posted on 06/03/2014 5:12:35 AM PDT by driftdiver

The National Rifle Association has issued a strongly-worded criticism of a fellow gun rights group, calling its practice of so-called "open carry" demonstrations "downright scary."

The criticisms of Open Carry Texas were noted in an unsigned post published Friday on the NRA's Institute for Legislative Action page. Open Carry Texas members have become known for gathering in public places, mostly notably restaurants, carrying large, high-powered rifles.

Most recently, Sonic, Chipotle, and Chili's joined Starbucks, Wendy's, Jack in the Box, and Applebee's in banning firearms from their premises after protests by Open Carry Texas.

"Let’s not mince words," the post on the NRA's site said, "not only is it rare, it’s downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself. To those who are not acquainted with the dubious practice of using public displays of firearms as a means to draw attention to oneself or one’s cause, it can be downright scary. It makes folks who might normally be perfectly open-minded about firearms feel uncomfortable and question the motives of pro-gun advocates.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnews.com ...


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: banglist; nra; opencarry; yesterday
I used to think this kind of action would be a negative. However it seems to be helping and pushing back the boundary.

I wonder if these same ninnies get scared when they see a cop openly carrying.

1 posted on 06/03/2014 5:12:36 AM PDT by driftdiver
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To: driftdiver

Pushing the boundary back is exactly the point.


2 posted on 06/03/2014 5:22:53 AM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: driftdiver
It could get interesting if someone were to see an LOE in uniform, and start yelling "Man with a gun! Man with a gun!".

Question to any actual lawyer in the group - Could that person be charged with anything? Would that be a case of reckless endangerment since the nearby crowd would be falling all over themselves trying to get away? Please, no lawyer wannabe opinions.

Personally, I think open carry is just poor tactics. I want the first recognition by the bad guy that I have a weapon is when multiple rounds go thru his center of mass.

3 posted on 06/03/2014 5:23:12 AM PDT by Pecos (The Chicago Way: Kill the Constitution, one step at a time.)
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To: driftdiver

It is no more scary than say, an Occupy Wall Street [or other local] demonstration, or a Greenpeace, Environmental, or Illegal Alien demonstration, or seeing two Black Panther goons with billy clubs outside a Philadelphia polling place.

Frankly, I don’t feel entirely comfortable that the NRA represents me and my rights fully. I have stopped adding “round-ups” to all my purchases from on-line gun parts sites that have that option.


4 posted on 06/03/2014 5:27:29 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: driftdiver
carrying large, high-powered rifles.

Fox News slinging a bit of that gun-grabber bullsh!t terminology.

5 posted on 06/03/2014 5:48:20 AM PDT by Jagdgewehr (It will take blood.)
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To: driftdiver

NRA surrender monkeys.


6 posted on 06/03/2014 5:50:21 AM PDT by Timber Rattler (Just say NO! to RINOS and the GOP-E)
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To: Gaffer

People on nra board think guns are for hunting, at least some of them. Busch left the board because nra was too strong on gun rights.

They are very powerful and I think we’re better off bringing the nra to the light then forsaking it.


7 posted on 06/03/2014 5:50:58 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Pecos
“I want the first recognition by the bad guy that I have a weapon is when multiple rounds go thru his center of mass.”

Thats kinda the way I feel. Got into a discussion yesterday on another thread about open v/s concealed carry. Alot of different opinions about it. Guess it's just personal preference.

8 posted on 06/03/2014 5:51:20 AM PDT by V_TWIN (white pri)
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To: driftdiver

9 posted on 06/03/2014 5:54:06 AM PDT by Mechanicos (When did we amend the Constitution for a 2nd Federal Prohibition?)
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To: V_TWIN

Open carry is poor self defense tactic but good for normalizing lawful carry by law abiding citizens.


10 posted on 06/03/2014 5:54:16 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: driftdiver

Open Carry Texas website


11 posted on 06/03/2014 6:05:55 AM PDT by deport
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To: All

Isn’t one of the purposes of the 2nd Amendment to make certain people afraid?


12 posted on 06/03/2014 6:10:33 AM PDT by Maverick68
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To: driftdiver

“It makes folks who might normally be perfectly open-minded about firearms feel uncomfortable and question the motives of pro-gun advocates.”

I agree with this. I don’t appreciate the bully-tactics used by those who support the gay agenda and I don’t think these tactis will work for the Open Carry guys either. It’s going to backfire... no pun intended.


13 posted on 06/03/2014 6:10:35 AM PDT by bearkat
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To: driftdiver
The problem with Texas is that your gun has to be concealed.
If someone happens to see it under your jacket, even if safely holstered, they can report you.
That's nuts. Other states have open carry, no problem.
If Texas gets open carry, someone getting a glimpse of your gun is no longer a problem.
You can still choose to carry open, concealed (or both).

14 posted on 06/03/2014 6:28:31 AM PDT by BitWielder1 (Corporate Profits are better than Government Waste)
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To: driftdiver

I haven’t seen all of the photos, but the one of two men in a Chipotle, one wearing dark sunglasses (indoors) and holding his rifle in the low ready position made me cringe.

I wouldn’t have a problem if they popped that particular guy for brandishing. I don’t want to be around some yahoo who is finger**** a loaded rifle in public.

Slung AR-15, muzzle pointed in a safe direction - no problem.

I open carry when in Arizona. I make sure to dress nicely, haircut, shave, handgun in a retention holster and I do not touch my sidearm.


15 posted on 06/03/2014 6:37:43 AM PDT by barefoot_hiker
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To: V_TWIN

I had a talk with the guys at my workplace about this, too. They know I have my CCW (I’ve taken a few of them shooting) and they asked, “Wouldn’t you freak out if you saw these guys walking in the place where you and your family were eating?”

I told them, “If they weren’t breaking any laws, I wouldn’t. But I’m not the kind of guy who’d tell others what they should or shouldn’t do because it made me, ‘FEEL,’ uncomfortable.”


16 posted on 06/03/2014 6:41:39 AM PDT by RandallFlagg (Uninstall Fascist Firefox. Get Pale Moon.)
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To: BitWielder1

This is exactly the thing. There have been several ugly incidents were someone carrying accidentally showed and someone flipped out. Those need to stop. Education is the key and open carry is one way to do it.


17 posted on 06/03/2014 6:45:41 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: Pecos

Shouting those words, in the circumstances where a uniformed peace officer is simply wearing a firearm, would not be protected speech. Whoever was shouting that could be charged criminally and punished. Charges could range from Disturbing the Peace to various more severe charges if anyone were to be injured.

The most famous case on point here is Schenck v. United States 249 U.S. 47 (1919). In that U.S. Supreme Court opinion, written by Justice Holmes, we see the emergence of the “clear and present danger” doctrine: false and dangerous speech is not protected, such as falsely shouting fire in a crowded theater.

Oh, but it’s true, one may say, that the officer does in fact have a gun? Well, in the year 1919, when the Schenck opinion was published, people commonly smoked tobacco in crowded theaters. They ignited their cigarettes, cigars, and pipes with matches (little fires). That was just normal behavior and no cause for alarm. Likewise, in the year 2014, peace officers commonly wear sidearms. It is no cause for alarm.


18 posted on 06/03/2014 6:51:10 AM PDT by Unknowing (Now is the time for all smart little girls to come to the aid of their country.)
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To: driftdiver

they walk around in israel with these weapons and nobody blinks.

i guess the nra has no ide of the concept of conditioning. it will become norml and accepted. again.


19 posted on 06/03/2014 6:51:53 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man (Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: driftdiver

Since open carry of pistols/revolvers is against the law in Texas, I guess this is the only legal way for this group to express themselves. Many of us that are CHL holders have a concern that this activity and handgun open carry legislation could have the negative effect of more businesses putting up 30.06 signs, which they have every right to do. Very few are doing it now. More 30.06 signs would be a backward step for gun rights and differentiating between open carry and concealed carry in that regard would be quite complicated.

Unless I was in rural areas, I would not carry openly. The BG doesn’t need to know that I am carrying. That doesn’t mean I am opposed to open carry. But it does mean that I don’t want my rights restricted (30.06 or similar) because of the actions of this group or any other group. BTW I’m sure the IRS/ATF/NSA and all the other gestapo in the banana republic know from all the surveillance and pics of these people who to go after first.

In any event if conservatives maintain the balance of power in the Statehouse, open carry of handguns will likely become a reality in the next session of the legislature. Be careful what you wish for.


20 posted on 06/03/2014 6:52:24 AM PDT by secondamendmentkid
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To: driftdiver
I used to think this kind of action would be a negative. However it seems to be helping and pushing back the boundary.

In California, starting in 2004, some people decided to "push the boundaries", with open-carry activists meeting up in places like Starbucks.

The result was the passage of California Assembly Bill 144, which starting in 2012 outlawed open carry of pistols, followed by laws which outlawed open carry of rifles and shotguns. Way to go, guys!

There are places where open carry can be done without alarming people, and places where open carry will freak people out. Freaking out the sheep WILL lead to laws against open carry.

21 posted on 06/03/2014 6:54:00 AM PDT by PapaBear3625 (You don't notice it's a police state until the police come for you.)
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To: BitWielder1
The problem with Texas is that your gun has to be concealed.

Nope, not for long guns (ie rifles). For hand guns that is correct, except you can carry one on your person traveling to and from hunting. And it is very common to do so on private property, like on a ranch or farm. There are places for hand guns related to wildlife.

The prohibition of open carry of hand guns goes back to laws passed by Fed Supervised Reconstruction era Texas. Too many carpet baggers felt threatened by open carry, so they got the law changed.

22 posted on 06/03/2014 7:03:54 AM PDT by Texas Fossil (Texas is not where you were born, but a Free State of Heart, Mind & Attitude!)
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To: driftdiver

It seems to me the 2A says we have the right to keep and BEAR arms. Frightening girls or girly men while bearing arms shouldn’t matter.


23 posted on 06/03/2014 7:04:34 AM PDT by afsnco
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To: driftdiver

It is a pity when a former rapper Ice-T knows the reason for the Second Amendment and the NRA does not. It is not about hunting or any of the other liberal diversionary canards.


24 posted on 06/03/2014 8:01:23 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Pecos

“Personally, I think open carry is just poor tactics.”

This is not about tactics. It is about establishing our rights under the second amendment.

I carry but concealed and agree with you about what good tactics are.


25 posted on 06/03/2014 8:06:01 AM PDT by cpdiii (Deckhand, Roughneck, Mud Man, Geologist, Pilot, Pharmacist THE CONSTITUTION IS WORTH DYING FOR!)
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To: cpdiii

2nd Amendment, Use it Or Lose it


26 posted on 06/03/2014 8:06:42 AM PDT by GeronL (Vote for Conservatives not for Republicans)
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To: driftdiver

In this day and age of nutjobs walking into places and slaughtering innocent people, why in sam hell would you want to open carry in an establishment with lil kids around.

I understand what they are attempting to do, but this is just down right stupid.

It doesn’t help our cause.


27 posted on 06/03/2014 9:19:38 AM PDT by servantboy777
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To: driftdiver

Imagine if the homos would tell their people what you are doing is down right scary....................


28 posted on 06/03/2014 9:22:08 AM PDT by PeterPrinciple (Where is your thinking cap? The one you were issued in elementray school.)
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To: achilles2000; driftdiver
Pushing the boundary back is exactly the point.

In an ironic twist, there is truth in this... and liberals use this strategy to perfection. I personally cannot bring myself to encourage the protests that includes folks open carrying "assault rifles", but I won't condemn them either. Hell, it make me a little uncomfortable. But that is apparently the point. And I have to admit, it is working. Here is how...

It changes the sensitivities of people and affects social opinion. At one time our culture found the killing of babies (abortion) abhorent. Sucking the brains out of an unborn baby was a repugnant thought. Then the debate shifted to actually giving birth to a live baby and cutting it's spinal cord outside the womb (Late term abortion). To some extent, we have been desensitized to the original horror. There are many other examples; immigration, healthcare, taxes, gay rights, marriage.... I could expand on how we have been fooled into arguing details instead of premise based on liberal talking points and agendas.

In this case, folks are starting to be uncomfortable around folks with AR-15 strapped to their back at Star Bucks. They are far more comfortable with a clean cut citizen at Star Bucks open carrying a .45 on their belt.

29 posted on 06/03/2014 10:52:12 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (Tagline deleted at the request of an offended FReeper.)
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To: TalonDJ
This is exactly the thing. There have been several ugly incidents were someone carrying accidentally showed and someone flipped out. Those need to stop. Education is the key and open carry is one way to do it.

I've been carrying concealed daily for about 8 years now. It's now like my wallet and keys. My holsters and weapons are part of my attire whether I'm dressed casually or formerly. I think this is the way it is for most. But to your point....

I never gave much thought to "who else" was carrying until about a year ago. My wife and I were meeting with another couple in a Pinerra Bread Restaurant. I happened to notice an elderly couple sitting a little ways from us enjoying their meal. The Gentlemen was sitting in a way that I noticed his concealed piece "printing". I had to grin a bit. From that point on, I started paying more attention and looking for tell tale signs on occasion when in public places. When you know what to look for, I think many people would be surprised how many folks are carrying concealed weapons.

I live in Indiana. I think Hoosiers, in general, are pretty comfortable with full knowledge that many unsuspecting folks are carrying weapons. At a Casino in Shelbyville, IN, I have had to stand in line to check my weapon in. They have a window for that.

30 posted on 06/03/2014 11:04:53 AM PDT by Tenacious 1 (Tagline deleted at the request of an offended FReeper.)
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To: driftdiver

My letter sent to the chicken NRA:

Dear NRA:

your
“Let’s not mince words,” the post on the NRA’s site said, “not only is it rare, it’s downright weird and certainly not a practical way to go normally about your business while being prepared to defend yourself. To those who are not acquainted with the dubious practice of using public displays of firearms as a means to draw attention to oneself or one’s cause, it can be downright scary. It makes folks who might normally be perfectly open-minded about firearms feel uncomfortable and question the motives of pro-gun advocates.

“Using guns merely to draw attention to yourself in public not only defies common
sense, it shows a lack of consideration and manners,” the NRA wrote.
“That’s not the Texas way. And that’s certainly not the NRA way.”

My humble opinion concerning your NRA`s apparent ignorance:

NRA should really read American history to learn about the Second Amendment and how my ancestors knew what it meant. You appear to be totally ignorant of the history of America or you would not appear to be uttering such preposterous nonsensical statements per above..

WEARING ARMS< BEARING ARMS
Volunteers#War of 1812
“Governor Synder, 1815- Our militia and volunteers were actually engage with the enemy..”p99 ...if we destroyed the militia system, we did not indeed take away the right of the people to bear arms, but we destroyed the inclination, the habit of WEARING ARMS; and such was not his [Gov. Snyder]sentiment as to what ought to be the condition of things in a country like ours. He believed that not only right, but the habit of WEARING ARMS was essential to freemen, and to the preservation of the liberty of freemen.
This was the principle inserted into the Constitution of the United States; and if we did away with this, the effect would be to destroy the principle and the feeling
altogether.” .100 p.105.

p.168 et alii pages are sourced from “Proceedings and Debates of the Convention of the Commonwealth of Pennsylvania”, Vol. 4, by the Pennsylvania Constitutional Convention, 1837-8

Shape up or ship out.
Best regards,


31 posted on 06/03/2014 12:08:47 PM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits on firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: servantboy777

I used to have that opinion but I have changed. By being afraid to open carry where its legal we’re allowing the enemy to dictate the battleground.

This is exactly what the left has been doing to further their agenda.

Do you swoon when you see a cop? Then you shouldn’t care about someone open carrying. In Florida 5% of the population has a CCW. So most likely there are already armed people in any restaurant. Should we swoon at the thought of someone carrying concealed?


32 posted on 06/03/2014 2:10:35 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Tenacious 1

I completely agree. There is even a literature on this subject (how public opinion gets shifted).You have made well the point that I was too lazy to type ;-)


33 posted on 06/03/2014 2:29:55 PM PDT by achilles2000 ("I'll agree to save the whales as long as we can deport the liberals")
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To: driftdiver
All the open carry folks are going to do is cause lawmakers to pass legislation banning the open carry of arms in eateries and such.

I think it's counter productive to get a bunch of folks together and walk into an eatery with weapons exposed. Just freaks people out and pisses a bunch of dad's off when they are there with their kids.

How can this help the cause? Seriously, how can any law maker refuse to come to the aid of a parent just wanting to protect their child from some nutball with a gun?

I whole heartily support open carry and I wish the laws were more clear, but until that day there is no need to go about freaking parents out.

34 posted on 06/03/2014 2:48:40 PM PDT by servantboy777
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To: servantboy777

And how will you get those laws changed?


35 posted on 06/03/2014 2:51:25 PM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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