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America’s Medieval Universities: They are now becoming a costly relic
National Review ^ | 06/05/2014 | Victor Davis Hanson

Posted on 06/05/2014 7:18:32 AM PDT by SeekAndFind

Edited on 06/05/2014 8:42:56 AM PDT by Admin Moderator. [history]

Employment rates for college graduates are dismal. Aggregate student debt is staggering. But university administrative salaries are soaring. The campus climate of tolerance has utterly disappeared. Only the hard sciences and graduate schools have salvaged American universities’ international reputations.

For over two centuries, our superb system of American public and private higher education kept pace with radically changing times and so ensured our prosperity and reinforced democratic pluralism.


(Excerpt) Read more at nationalreview.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Culture/Society; Extended News; Government; Politics/Elections
KEYWORDS: college; university

1 posted on 06/05/2014 7:18:32 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

See what happens when you lower the standards to where a college degree is meaningless and teach nothing useful...........


2 posted on 06/05/2014 7:25:40 AM PDT by Red Badger (Soon there will be another American Civil War. Will make the first one seem like a Tea Party........)
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To: Red Badger

Which is one of the reasons I predict more Americans will choose to study abroad, and foreign universities tap into the US student market.


3 posted on 06/05/2014 7:27:00 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

The student loan debt is troubling.

But, students and families have to be realistic about things.

Students should focus on majors which help them into job and career paths, in my opinion.

Why major in women’s studies, for example? Studying women may be fascinating in some ways, but, how many jobs look for women’s studies majors as a qualification?

It may make sense to take on student loan debt, if you are getting a degree in a field which leads to a good paying career. But it makes no sense to take on debt, to major in women’s studies, or history, or many other areas which won’t qualify you for a job at which you earn high enough pay to pay off that student loan.

Some observers have said that tuition and fees have risen dramatically in recent years, precisely because of the availability of student loan funds to pay the freight.


4 posted on 06/05/2014 7:30:24 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego (et)
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To: SeekAndFind
We cannot expect the current self-interested establishment in charge of the university to reform it. Its failure to educate students for well-paying jobs while charging them excessive fees, may alone force a reckoning

The sooner the better.

5 posted on 06/05/2014 7:31:04 AM PDT by corlorde (forWARD of the state)
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To: dfwgator

RE: Which is one of the reasons I predict more Americans will choose to study abroad

Is that going to be any cheaper?


6 posted on 06/05/2014 7:32:00 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: SeekAndFind

Thanks for posting. You can count on VDH to use the word “reactionary” correctly.

Many in the universities recognize some of these problem. I went to a lecture last semester by David Krakauer from the Wisconsin Institute of Discovery at the University of Wisconsin Madison. He was basically saying the same thing as VDH.


7 posted on 06/05/2014 7:33:36 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Red Badger
See what happens when you lower the standards to where a college degree is meaningless and teach nothing useful...........

True. Most colleges, even at the junior college levee, have to offer remedial courses because the students aren't ready to do the basics out of our high schools.

The whole education system is in a crisis state.

8 posted on 06/05/2014 7:34:20 AM PDT by Parmy
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To: SeekAndFind
The Internet, tech schools, and correspondence courses are already eroding the monopolies of the campus.

Tech schools are popping up everywhere. However, none of them specialize in minority women's studies or community organizing.

9 posted on 06/05/2014 7:34:51 AM PDT by oldbrowser (The only way to defeat this country is to turn us against each other.)
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To: SeekAndFind

But they sure have some pretty buildings.


10 posted on 06/05/2014 7:35:41 AM PDT by left that other site (You shall know the Truth, and The Truth Shall Set You Free.)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

It’s funny, my daughter goes to a pretty “significant” university for her art major. Most of her recently graduated seniors had decent jobs before they graduated. For her small group, they averages $45k-$60k.

In addition, they were all making pieces that would sell in your run of the mill finr art store for a couple hundred dollars a piece.

I think we might want to rethink the “BFA is a ticket to nowhere” thought process.

Although, this is no “state college art history” degree.


11 posted on 06/05/2014 7:36:15 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

I was surprised how many people were majoring in “social justice” in a PhD level class I took last semester.


12 posted on 06/05/2014 7:36:21 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: SeekAndFind

We should also re-think this idea that everyone should go to college.

The structure of the economy is such that, there is is not enough demand in the economy for college graduates who have not majored in specific fields. In some areas, such as the hard sciences, accounting, nursing, there is demand for graduates with those degrees. In many other fields, there is simply no demand in the economy for graduates with majors in these other fields. Which means that whatever jobs these graduates get do not require that college education.

So many politicians, from Barack Obama on down, tell us we need to send more young people to college, to compete in the 21st century global economy and all that. Is this really necessary? Should our policies really encourage that, through programs such as student loans encouraging more and more to go to college?


13 posted on 06/05/2014 7:36:40 AM PDT by Dilbert San Diego (et)
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To: Vermont Lt

RE: It’s funny, my daughter goes to a pretty “significant” university for her art major. Most of her recently graduated seniors had decent jobs before they graduated. For her small group, they averages $45k-$60k.

Just curious, what is the name of the university? Thanks.


14 posted on 06/05/2014 7:37:42 AM PDT by SeekAndFind
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To: Red Badger
The standards were not lowered.
They were abandoned outright in favor of pursuit of Income.
This did not happen today.
It isn't a recent development.
It happened before most Free person were born.

A bellwether to show when this happened for any particular institution will be looking back to see when they limited the amount of course work could be challenged and tested out of. At that point, the institution ceased to focus on who had learned what in favor of who paid what.

No one I have ever challenged with this point has ever continued the conversation for very long. To their credit, people from the hard sciences have never had such an infatuation with their alma mater as to contest the observation.

15 posted on 06/05/2014 7:43:32 AM PDT by MrEdd (Heck? Geewhiz Cripes, thats the place where people who don't believe in Gosh think they aint going.)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
Some observers have said that tuition and fees have risen dramatically in recent years, precisely because of the availability of student loan funds to pay the freight.

Same reason that health care costs skyrocketed once we got Medicare, and people relied on insurance to pay for it. When somebody else is paying, you don't care how much something costs.

16 posted on 06/05/2014 7:44:09 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: MrEdd

They have to pay all those tenured profs that sit on their duffs and let the post grad students teach the classes if they even do that any more. Last I saw was a classroom full of recorders on the desks and a automated tape playing up on the dias................


17 posted on 06/05/2014 7:48:38 AM PDT by Red Badger (Soon there will be another American Civil War. Will make the first one seem like a Tea Party........)
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To: SeekAndFind

Racial politics have killed our once great colleges and universities. As usual the Federal Government, in particular the Judiciary, is the culprit


18 posted on 06/05/2014 7:51:17 AM PDT by AEMILIUS PAULUS (It is a shame that when these people give a riot)
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To: Vermont Lt; Parmy

The crisis in education is that liberal education has morphed to mean “Leftist Education”. David Krakauer said “we’re raising a generation of Philistines.” The sixties radicals, having successfully razed the “mettanarratives” of Western tradition, are currently building new, idiotic mettanarratives that have no historical, natural vetting.

One of the problems with hard science, it’s easy to disconnect it from cultural considerations. Fine Art doesn’t have that luxury/problem. It must needs look at history even if only to offer straw-man critiques. FA people should make good employees, because they understand people.


19 posted on 06/05/2014 7:52:04 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: SeekAndFind

The WI university system was recently found to have huge secret slush funds all over the system. This despite crying poor every year for decades to justify 5.5% tuition hikes every year. Gov Walker imposed a tuition freeze. Ok, I think a refund should have been ordered but I’m in the minority on this.

The UW leadership did, after this realize they had a problem. Their brilliant solution? Increase spending and raise room and board fees! Yes these are the people we send out kids to for education?


20 posted on 06/05/2014 7:55:41 AM PDT by logic101.net (How many more children must die on the altar of gun control?)
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To: Red Badger

A college degree today is the tollbooth for gaining access to the job market. Without a degree, most office type jobs are out. Which leaves jobs for tech school grads, service industry jobs and entry level retail jobs.

Having the degree doesn’t mean you have a job. You are taking thousands of dollars in student loans so you can check off a box on the job application. Degree from accredited college? Yes. Why do womyn’s and black studies majors work at Starbucks? Because outside of working for some leftwing organization, the degree is worthless.


21 posted on 06/05/2014 8:00:28 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz ("Heck of a reset there, Hillary")
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To: Dilbert San Diego
students should focus on majors which help them into job and career paths

A smart path is to have a job skill or a plan to be able to work instead of taking on student loans.

22 posted on 06/05/2014 8:00:57 AM PDT by grania
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To: SeekAndFind

Alfred University in NY. They specialize in Ceramic arts. She works harder there than I did for an MBA. Art school—at least for her—is a lot of work. And I figure after the big collapse, people will still need pots and plates.


23 posted on 06/05/2014 8:03:36 AM PDT by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

I think everyone should have a thorough understanding of the history of Western Culture. Sadly, they won’t get that in most Universities. As we lose our connection with history in our mainstream institutions, it becomes more important for plumbers and mechanics to find it elsewhere. They can find it by independent study, but there isn’t a better assimilation of the disparate disciplines that make up Western Culture than at colleges.

I have two daughters and a son. I’ll be disappointed in my girls if they’re not homemakers, but I’ll also be disappointed if they don’t know the difference between Plato and Augustine or Burke and Paine. Everyone should know this stuff.


24 posted on 06/05/2014 8:04:02 AM PDT by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God.)
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To: Vermont Lt

I am an art dept graduate from the Cal State Univ system. Either I misunderstood your post or you need to rethink your assertion.


25 posted on 06/05/2014 8:09:32 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: SeekAndFind

When you think that the IVY League schools were all once Seminaries, training young men for godly service, it is even more ghastly the outcome of the educations received today. Today’s studies and many of the degrees awarded are a slap in the face to God, and purposely meant to be. God is not mocked.

Another observation is this: when professors’ salaries go up, and the quality of education goes down, it really is a signal of the END. This is not sustainable, and soon they will not be able to fill enough university “seats” to pay those outrageous wages. As soon as parents get the real facts that those degrees are nearly worthless in the real world, they will start sending their kids to a good state school, let the kids do their higher degrees on their own at the IVY Leagues, if they want to take on the debt themselves.


26 posted on 06/05/2014 8:10:28 AM PDT by Shery (in APO Land)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

Plumbers, carpenters, AC techs and electricians make good money. Oftentimes more than college grads..................


27 posted on 06/05/2014 8:11:23 AM PDT by Red Badger (Soon there will be another American Civil War. Will make the first one seem like a Tea Party........)
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To: Vermont Lt

Never mind! I did misunderstand your post.


28 posted on 06/05/2014 8:11:23 AM PDT by SoCal Pubbie
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To: Dilbert San Diego
how many jobs look for women’s studies majors as a qualification?

Nothing really new here.

There have always been niche fields where the only jobs where expertise in that field was a qualification was in teaching it to the next generation.

History, for the most part. How many businesses are looking for a PhD in Byzantine History?

Or a major, like Rita of Groundhog Day, in Medieval French Poetry"

The difference is that those with a degree in these fields were assumed to be well-rounded and able to learn quickly how to do business administration, become a bureaucrat, etc.

Not true for today's Hispanic, black, womyn's or gay "Studies" majors. If I were a businessman, I'd assume their education was an actual negative in practical terms.

Of course, they are always needed by large businesses for their "diversity education" indoctrination departments. But nothing actually productive.

29 posted on 06/05/2014 8:24:26 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: demshateGod
there isn’t a better assimilation of the disparate disciplines that make up Western Culture than at colleges.

Used to be, you mean.

30 posted on 06/05/2014 8:27:28 AM PDT by Sherman Logan
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To: Red Badger

“Plumbers, carpenters, AC techs and electricians make good money. Oftentimes more than college grads..................”

No question. Welders also. Especially in Texas.

So my kid is home from school for the summer. Freshman at one of those snooty lib NE schools. He is home not three hours and has a job at a local restaurant as a waiter. First week he works 50 hours, picking up every shift he can. Comes home with close to 600 bucks. He wants a car so he can go to his job when at school.

Degree or no degree, if you are willing to bust your butt you can make a living. Maybe not drive a Volvo or have season tickets to the LA Kings, but still be able to live.


31 posted on 06/05/2014 8:31:23 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz ("Heck of a reset there, Hillary")
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To: SeekAndFind

Every president since Reagan has been an Ivy Leaguer.


32 posted on 06/05/2014 8:36:40 AM PDT by Moonman62 (The US has become a government with a country, rather than a country with a government.)
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To: EQAndyBuzz

You bust your butt when you are young so that when you are old you don’t have to........................


33 posted on 06/05/2014 8:41:06 AM PDT by Red Badger (Soon there will be another American Civil War. Will make the first one seem like a Tea Party........)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

“So many politicians, from Barack Obama on down, tell us we need to send more young people to college”

To stamp out any remaining vestige of traditional thinking, values or Christianity that may have been instilled in them by their families. Then fill the void with the atheistic, “progressive” garbage.


34 posted on 06/05/2014 8:47:17 AM PDT by all the best (sat`~!)
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To: Vermont Lt
Although, this is no “state college art history” degree.

My daughter just graduated University of Connecticut with her BA in History. Her interests combine East Asian art with her interest in history.

She will be studying in London, England for her MA in Art History through Sotheby's International -- the famous auction house -- and her Masters program through Sotheby's is accredited through the University of Manchester. Her academic sponsor is head the East Asian galleries at the Victoria and Albert Museum.

So after a year's time she will complete a Master's program and a kind of internship/specialization with Sotheby's = a meaningful business-world application. The hire rate out of the program is a minimum 70% success rate at Sotheby's, and the program is one which is mirrored similarly at Christie's in the US (out of NYC).

Sotheby's gets a suitably trained individual in their line of work, and the student studies what their realm of interest is at the graduate level -- with a good chance of being employed on the backside with a very prestigious firm.

My daughter has no undergraduate student debt since she was employed through my consulting firm and the salary I paid her accommodated her costs. She will be taking out a loan for the graduate work, but I suspect she will be able to pay it back through gainful employment on the back side of completing the program in good time.

FReegards!

 photo million-vet-march.jpg

35 posted on 06/05/2014 8:49:18 AM PDT by Agamemnon (Darwinism is the glue that holds liberalism together)
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To: Red Badger

“You bust your butt when you are young so that when you are old you don’t have to........................”

Amen!


36 posted on 06/05/2014 8:56:37 AM PDT by EQAndyBuzz ("Heck of a reset there, Hillary")
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To: SeekAndFind

Interesting article. There are certainly big changes occurring with respect to education.


37 posted on 06/05/2014 10:01:29 AM PDT by ForYourChildren (Christian Education [ RomanRoadsMedia.com - a classical Christian approach to homeschool])
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To: Agamemnon

UConn has a good program. I meant no offense. But you know what I meant. There is a difference in some school with three throwing wheels and the building sized kilns with dozens of wheels.


38 posted on 06/05/2014 12:51:50 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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