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Bodies of nearly 800 babies have been found buried at a former home for unwed mothers in Ireland
Global Post ^ | 6-2-2014 | Sarah Wolfe

Posted on 06/11/2014 7:03:49 AM PDT by Renfield

A mass grave containing the bodies of up to 800 babies has reportedly been found near a former home for unwed mothers in Ireland.

The children were likely buried in secret in a concrete tank alongside the St. Mary's Mother and Baby Home, which was run by nuns in Tuam, Galway for a period of 36 years. The home closed in 1961.

The exterior of the St. Mary's Mother and Baby Home in Tuam, Galway.(Catherine Corless/Facebook)

Newly-discovered reports show that many of the children died from malnutrition and neglect, or from complications associated with measles, pneumonia, TB, gastroenteritis, and other diseases.

Local historian Catherine Corless uncovered the grave and is part of a group pushing for an investigation and a memorial to mark the site, which is now surrounded by a housing estate.

The mass grave is the latest and most shocking development in the home's dark history. Local health board inspectors reported horrifying conditions after a visit to the home in 1944. At that time, 333 unwed women and their children were living there, far exceeding the home's capacity of 243.

Most children were between the ages of 3 weeks and 13 months. They were "fragile, pot-bellied and emaciated," according to the inspectors' report.  One of them, a 13-month-old boy, had "no control over bodily functions" and was "probably mentally defective."

A 1932 ad from a local newspaper offers a chilling glimpse into that world.

Children's Home Tuam: Contract for Coffins (Connaught Tribune, 30 Jan, 1932): pic.twitter.com/skBTbnDuAW

— Shane (@scary_biscuits) May 27, 2014

Homes for unwed mothers were common in Ireland during the late-19th and early-20th centuries.

Another such home, Sean Ross Abbey in Tipperary, was depicted in the Oscar-nominated flim "Philomena." The film tells the true story of Philomena Lee, a young Irish woman was staying in an Irish home for unwed mothers in the 1950s when suddenly one day the nuns took her 3-year-old son and adopted him to an American couple. 

That was one very tragic story. Now we have 800 more.

The "outside nursery" at Sea Ross Abbey. (Brian Lockier/Adoption Rights Alliance)

Children in the play room at Sean Ross Abbey. (Brian Lockier/Adoption Rights Alliance)

The tea room at Sean Ross Abbey. (Brian Lockier/Adoption Rights Alliance)

Nuns stand over the cribs of small babies at Sean Ross Abbey. (Brian Lockier/Adoption Rights Alliance)


TOPICS: Miscellaneous
KEYWORDS: catholic; ireland
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1 posted on 06/11/2014 7:03:49 AM PDT by Renfield
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To: Renfield

Ireland: Historian refutes ‘septic tank’ story ... http://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=24911


2 posted on 06/11/2014 7:06:22 AM PDT by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
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To: Renfield

The children in those pictures don’t appear malnourished.


3 posted on 06/11/2014 7:06:40 AM PDT by driftdiver (I could eat it raw, but why do that when I have a fire.)
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To: Renfield

Not sure if this is related but there was a movie called “sisters of Magdalene” i think, about these nuns in Ireland raising orphan girls... it was horrific!!


4 posted on 06/11/2014 7:06:57 AM PDT by wyowolf
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To: Renfield
Forbes: Why That Story About Irish Babies In A Septic Tank Is A Hoax
5 posted on 06/11/2014 7:07:11 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." --Tacitus)
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To: Renfield; rbmillerjr; Lowell1775; JPX2011; NKP_Vet; Jed Eckert; Recovering Ex-hippie; ...

Albion Wilde said, on another thread:

I am not defending any misconduct. But I am disappointed some freepers’ open eagerness to believe the rank inaccuracy and sensationalism of the reporting, in light of the anti-Christian and anti-Catholic agenda and propaganda sweeping Western nations supported and funded by Marxists, from the One World financiers to the UN to the Islamists.

Let’s take a look at how hysterically misleading this “800 babies in a septic tank” headline is. As two earlier posts have indicated:

• There has not even been an establishment of fact that the container was a septic tank, and
• the historian on whose work this story was based said she did not characterize the container as a septic tank,

• nor did she report on any 800 remains in such a tank.

• What she did was research public records on paper of 800 child deaths at the home from various causes, over a period of many decades.

• The actual burial places of approximately 775 of those children had not been determined as of the above article, due to a lack of funding.

• There is no evidence whether Catholic rites were or were not performed.

• The eyewitnesses who discovered the container in 1975 said they saw, at most, 20 small skulls.

• The remains could have been children, could have been miscarried fetuses, could have been from the 20th century or could have been from the Potato Famine era.

Since so few forensic determinations have yet been made, the headline is obviously intended to stir up hatred and disgust, and it has worked among quite a number of freepers.


6 posted on 06/11/2014 7:08:59 AM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: wyowolf

Another left wing fraud bash on Catholicism and Christendom.


7 posted on 06/11/2014 7:10:23 AM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

Good catch.

I was gonna point out to Renfield that this is old news and that Forbes had debunked it.

(Although I’m not convinced Forbes is right. This may be a hoax - maybe not)


8 posted on 06/11/2014 7:10:31 AM PDT by Responsibility2nd (NO LIBS. This Means Liberals and (L)libertarians! Same Thing. NO LIBS!!)
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To: narses

Since 2001, the Irish government has acknowledged that women in the Magdalene laundries were victims of abuse. However, the Irish government has resisted calls for investigation and proposals for compensation; it maintains the laundries were privately run and abuses at the laundries are outside the government’s remit.[29]


9 posted on 06/11/2014 7:13:23 AM PDT by wyowolf
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To: Renfield

Well, at least they dropped the septic tank bit.


10 posted on 06/11/2014 7:19:32 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: narses

Also, at what level were these children found? I’ve learned through my interest in the finding of King Richard the Third that at what level of soil a body is buried is what determines when the person lived and died. Obviously, the closer to the surface, the later the burial. Now that they’ve knocked off the septic tank lie, I wonder if these were 19th and early 20th century children. Just a thought.


11 posted on 06/11/2014 7:24:13 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: Renfield

Seems this hateful rubbish is still making its rounds on FR.


12 posted on 06/11/2014 7:24:54 AM PDT by PGR88
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To: All

After having read the links posted here to refute the original post, I see them as straw-man arguments, focusing on impertinent details. The fact is that hundreds of children were kept (by a church-run institution) in deplorable and inhumane conditions, and died of preventable ailments.


13 posted on 06/11/2014 7:28:20 AM PDT by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: Renfield
Forbes: Why That Story About Irish Babies in a Septic Tank is a Hoax
14 posted on 06/11/2014 7:40:09 AM PDT by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

I just duplicated your link. I guess I should read a few posts before posting, eh?


15 posted on 06/11/2014 7:41:02 AM PDT by al_c (Obama's standing in the world has fallen so much that Kenya now claims he was born in America.)
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To: al_c

The more the merrier.


16 posted on 06/11/2014 7:46:08 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." --Tacitus)
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To: Renfield
My goodness. They care about babies, all of a sudden? Or is this just another way to promote abortion?

Are we taking into account the general health of infants at this era in time? Infant mortality was once very high. We take the reverse for granted.

Put me down as having high suspicion that this is a catholic-bashing enterprise.

17 posted on 06/11/2014 7:47:50 AM PDT by Mamzelle
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To: wyowolf
Not sure if this is related but there was a movie called “sisters of Magdalene” i think, about these nuns in Ireland raising orphan girls... it was horrific!!

Related only in the sense that it was another hateful screed against Catholic Christianity:

MYTHS OF THE MAGDALENE LAUNDRIES

18 posted on 06/11/2014 7:58:34 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: Renfield

Looks like a cousins birthday party in my Gramma's basement in the 50s.

19 posted on 06/11/2014 8:00:24 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: wyowolf
Not sure if this is related but there was a movie called “sisters of Magdalene” i think, about these nuns in Ireland raising orphan girls... it was horrific!!

If it was in a movie, it must be true!

20 posted on 06/11/2014 8:03:04 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." --Tacitus)
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To: Renfield; narses
The fact is that hundreds of children were kept (by a church-run institution) in deplorable and inhumane conditions, and died of preventable ailments.

Deplorable an inhumane conditions existed in the struggling classes of much of post-WWI and WWII Europe, and particularly in post Potato Famine Ireland. Have you never read anything about the widespread poverty in Ireland, even Angela's Ashes? How about the struggles in Naples and the rest of Southern Italy? Why do you think so many Europeans gave up everything to come here during the last century?

Possibly you think our foster-care system (in which welfare "moms" apply for several so they can get a bigger government check each month) that commodifies the cast-off children of drug addicts and teen moms, supervised by our stellar system of social workers who routinely overlook egregious child abuse and murder, is a far superior system to what you see in those photos above.

21 posted on 06/11/2014 8:13:32 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: Albion Wilde

From a Catholic Website.. how objective. Not saying the movie was 100% true of course, but the Church has just a bit of credibility problem i think..


22 posted on 06/11/2014 8:52:52 AM PDT by wyowolf
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To: Renfield; rbmillerjr; Lowell1775; JPX2011; NKP_Vet; Jed Eckert; Recovering Ex-hippie; ...

“The fact is that hundreds of children were kept (by a church-run institution) in deplorable and inhumane conditions, and died of preventable ailments.”

Except that statement is false to fact. The Tuam home was a government institution, it regularly was inspected and regularly passed with high marks.

What alternate reality portal did you get your falsehoods from, the DemocraticUnderground?


23 posted on 06/11/2014 9:01:55 AM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: wyowolf

“Not saying the movie was 100% true of course, ...”

But yet you brought it up, odd.


24 posted on 06/11/2014 9:43:45 AM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: driftdiver

I’m thinking some children that went there died from all kinds of things and for some reason maybe they decided to put the dead where they did. I don’t know that it was some wicked event.
Maybe they didn’t have the resources to pay for burial and such.
Not classy though.


25 posted on 06/11/2014 9:51:44 AM PDT by A CA Guy ( God Bless America, God Bless and keep safe our fighting men and women.)
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To: wyowolf

There is a vast difference between facts in evidence and sensationalized movie scripts. When there is a serious accusation, bringing a movie into the discussion? Really?


26 posted on 06/11/2014 10:10:09 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: wyowolf
Church has just a bit of credibility problem i think

For you maybe. Wait... you mean an organization is doubted by people that disagree with it? Yeah that is stellar logic. Guess what genius, the Catholic Church will ALWAYS be doubted by people that DON'T AGREE WITH IT. What is disturbing to me is that so many protestants are perfectly willing to team up with humanists and all manor of anti Christian secularists, anyone and anything to score an attack on Catholics. The enemy of your enemy is NOT your friend. This goes double for the media so stop buying their smear campaign.

Name one independent third party that would have an objective opinion on anything Catholics do? Anyone? No. Because you either agree with them or you don't and if you don't then you aren't really unbiased are you? So take your pick, a Catholic source or anyone else. The objective truth will be somewhere in between.
27 posted on 06/11/2014 10:23:41 AM PDT by TalonDJ
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To: Albion Wilde; wyowolf; narses
Took the photos back in the day just to fake out people if they were ever "discovered", right?

Suck on that media teet, bub, that's exactly why "Conservatives" and "Christians" in this country are losers.

They believe anything the media says about the traditional targets of the democrat party (blacks, Jews, & Catholics) and would rather fight one another or attack the traditional democrat targets than build a majority that could fix the country.

28 posted on 06/11/2014 11:29:31 AM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: Rashputin

You can’t fake photos of chubby little children in clean clothes with untangled hair sitting calmly at little tables in spotless rooms if the children were starving in squalor a few hours before the photo shoot.


29 posted on 06/11/2014 11:41:35 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: wyowolf
From a Catholic Website.. how objective. Not saying the movie was 100% true of course, but the Church has just a bit of credibility problem i think..

By your logic, anything that appears on the White House web site, and any negative conditions in the United States in your lifetime -- abortion, child abuse, unemployment due to globalism and illegal labor, promiscuity, widespread pornography and rape, children shooting other children, illegals burdening the system and acting out Slavery.2 -- all those things can be attributed to you because you are an American citizen? You voted for all those things, right?

30 posted on 06/11/2014 11:46:18 AM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: Albion Wilde
Shhhhhhh !!!!
Don't make logical points or bring truth and reality into it.

People who claim to know the media is one giant democrat propaganda machine are still beating this particular dead horse. Don't distract them from their favorite pass time.

Any pretext the media spews, no matter how transparent, the liars and dedicated anti-Christians ride it for all it's worth, half of them pretending to be Christian while they spread the media lies.

31 posted on 06/11/2014 12:05:30 PM PDT by Rashputin (Jesus Christ doesn't evacuate His troops, He leads them to victory.)
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To: narses
The statement is not false. While the facility was owned by the Irish government, it was run by the Catholic church.
32 posted on 06/11/2014 12:31:53 PM PDT by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: Rashputin
I just can't understand why American Christians, either Cath, Prot, Evang or any other type, want to use this Forum to spout the old religious prejudices they heard around the kitchen table. The Thirty Years' War was over centuries ago.

We all have a common enemy now, and they darn near outnumber us. We need to set aside the rancor and band together.

And if they must discuss theological differences, do it respectfully and with a heart to learn or illuminate, on the Religion Forum.

33 posted on 06/11/2014 1:07:23 PM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: Renfield

So, because various non-Catholic churches let divorced people marry, are ok with abortion, IVF, and homosexual clergy, that gives Catholics the right to snark and nitpick non-Catholic freepers on the Forum, is that how it works?


34 posted on 06/11/2014 1:12:30 PM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: Albion Wilde

“and they darn near outnumber us”

Oh my goodness, I had 2 children 5 and 7 at my house for the last few days, they were into everything. The oldest brought me a Divine Mercy prayer card and wanted to know who it was. She hadn’t heard of Jesus at all! No concept of religion whatsoever.


35 posted on 06/11/2014 1:33:59 PM PDT by tiki
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To: Renfield

I saw on another site that this story was totally bogus


36 posted on 06/11/2014 6:45:47 PM PDT by terycarl
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To: Renfield

Indeed it is false. The government owned and inspected that home for decades. The facility regularly received top reviews. The claim is false to fact.


37 posted on 06/11/2014 7:56:41 PM PDT by narses (Matthew 7:6. He appears to have made up his mind let him live with the consequences.)
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To: Renfield
While the facility was owned by the Irish government, it was run by the Catholic church.

Americans in general have difficulties in grasping the concept of a State Church. The two were not separate entities.

38 posted on 06/11/2014 8:03:31 PM PDT by RegulatorCountry
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To: Renfield; knittnmom; driftdiver; wyowolf; E. Pluribus Unum; narses; Responsibility2nd; ...
I did considerable digging and reading on this. I learned that the Tuam Home run by the Bon Secours sisters did an extraordinary job of saving babies' and children's lives at a time when there were no antibiotics or vaccines, and when TB, pneumonia, influenza and gastroenteritis could wipe out whole wards of vulnerable children, as well as adults in "poor houses" and similar institutions.

The Sisters managed a better than 80% survival rate in their Home, when we know historically that orphanages and foundling homes even in the USA during the pre-antibiotic era could have the horrifyingly opposite result: an 80% death rate. This is not because of abuse or neglect, but the simple fact of life and death when populations were ravaged by infectious childhood diseases.

The best medical advice of the time was that the remains of children who succumbed to these diseases should be buried as soon as possible to prevent the spread of the infection. Hence their interment in vertical shaft graves or crypts, which were common in public institutions throughout the region. The Sisters concentrated their resources on food, soap and clothing for the living, not on caskets, headstones or individual graves for those who died.

It is crazy that the people now being blamed, trashed and libeled for these children's tragic deaths are in fact the dedicated care-giving women who were the only ones who labored to save them.


Oh, and by the way: the Magdalene Sisters torturing and abusing women in their Laundries? The publication of the Irish government's McAleese Report actually debunked this vicious lie.

(From the McAleese Report, Chapter 19, which describes living and work conditions:)

i. Sexual abuse

32. No other women in contact with the Committee made any allegation of sexual abuse during their time in the Magdalen Laundries. However a significant number told the Committee that they had suffered sexual abuse in the family home or in other institutions, either before or after their time in the Magdalen Laundries.

ii. Physical abuse

33. A large majority of the women who shared their stories with the Committee said that they had neither experienced nor seen other girls or women suffer physical abuse in the Magdalen Laundries.

34. In this regard, women who had in their earlier lives been in an industrial or reformatory school drew a clear distinction between their experiences there and in the Magdalen Laundries, stating clearly that the widespread brutality which they had witnessed and been subjected to in industrial and reformatory schools was not a feature of the Magdalen Laundries. "

And from Spiked Magazine's Brendan O'Neill (who is unconnected with the Catholic Church: an atheist, in fact):

"For the thorough, 1,000-page study found not a single incident of sexual abuse by a nun. Not one. Also, the vast majority of its interviewees said they were never physically punished in the laundries. As one woman said, "It has shocked me to read in papers that we were beat and our heads shaved and that we were badly treated by the nuns… I was not touched by any nun and I never saw anyone touched."

39 posted on 06/14/2014 7:56:28 PM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("See something, say something.")
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To: Mrs. Don-o
All you have are history and facts on your side. Other than that, you got nothin!

I hate having to point out obvious sarcasm, but there are so many room-temperature IQ types around here that you have to do it.

40 posted on 06/14/2014 8:00:37 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." --Tacitus)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thank you yet again, Mrs. Don-o. It’s nice to see the other side of the story. I only hope someone who wants to think ill of all Catholics and Catholic institutions will at least try and see the other side. I can only hope and pray.

Not to go too off-topic, I have recently been reading a book about Jewish orphanages in the East End of London in the early 20th Century. Amazing how those children, despite extreme poverty, were very well educated for their class and time, given time for sports and awarded prizes for extra effort. The food was admittedly basic and the worst that happened to them seemed to be that their heads were shaved to prevent lice.


41 posted on 06/15/2014 3:39:04 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: miss marmelstein

And there ya go. Thank you.


42 posted on 06/15/2014 4:38:23 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("See something, say something.")
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

What does not cease to amaze me, is that there are people who show evidence of feeling personally vindicated if Catholics are spotlighted as evil, and personally defeated if it turns out they were innocent.


43 posted on 06/15/2014 4:42:21 AM PDT by Mrs. Don-o ("Love does not delight in evil, but rejoices with the truth." 1 Cor. 3:16)
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To: Mrs. Don-o
It is crazy that the people now being blamed, trashed and libeled for these children's tragic deaths are in fact the dedicated care-giving women who were the only ones who labored to save them.

Amen! Well said to your entire post.

44 posted on 06/15/2014 12:28:53 PM PDT by Albion Wilde ("The commenters are plenty but the thinkers are few." -- Walid Shoebat)
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To: wyowolf

“Not sure if this is related but there was a movie called “sisters of Magdalene” i think, about these nuns in Ireland raising orphan girls... it was horrific!!”

How come we all detest and disbelieve Hollyweird and lamestream media on every issue but this one?


45 posted on 06/15/2014 5:03:19 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

Thank you. Would that the media did half as thorough an investigation!!


46 posted on 06/15/2014 5:08:11 PM PDT by knittnmom (Save the earth! It's the only planet with chocolate!)
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To: Mrs. Don-o

“and personally defeated if it turns out they were innocent”

One explanation seems plausible to me.


47 posted on 06/15/2014 5:08:20 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

“room-temperature IQ types”

Room temperature? Dern, how cold do you keep your house?


48 posted on 06/15/2014 5:09:54 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: knittnmom

http://www.indcatholicnews.com/news.php?viewStory=24911";

Has that story been posted here, or this one: http://www.irishtimes.com/news/social-affairs/tuam-mother-and-baby-home-the-trouble-with-the-septic-tank-story-1.1823393?fb_action_ids=10152435393495560&fb_action_types=og.recommends&fb_ref=.U5NN_0FZ0nU.like&fb_source=aggregation&fb_aggregation_id=288381481237582


49 posted on 06/15/2014 5:18:53 PM PDT by dsc (Any attempt to move a government to the left is a crime against humanity.)
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To: Renfield; All

These institutions were hell-holes and women living in himes for unwed mothers reported being treated like $&#!, and looked upon as worthless.

This does not jive with the RCC prating that they are oh so holy and all.

This lines up with the Magdalene graves found, but never fully investigated, and with other sites where babies were buried, but the RCC can’t provide proof that any priest could bother to get off his pampered butt and bother himself to perform a baptism for the unfortunate child, nor give him/her a proper burial.

In short, don’t show us your righteousness by chanting in Latin, or shaking an incense container - show it by caring for the least of these.....


50 posted on 06/15/2014 9:34:32 PM PDT by Laissez-faire capitalist
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