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The "fall of Baghdad"
6/12/2014 | ChocChipCookie

Posted on 06/12/2014 7:54:07 PM PDT by ChocChipCookie

There's something I've been wondering about whenever I hear of rebels or insurgents or whatever, "taking over a city."

How do these people, "take over a city"? I'm trying to picture tanks or troops coming down I-45...and then what? What do they do to gain control of an entire city?

I live in a fairly big city and have been wondering about the sequence of events for something like this to happen.

Your input?


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: baghdad
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1 posted on 06/12/2014 7:54:07 PM PDT by ChocChipCookie
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To: ChocChipCookie

If you step outside your home, they will cut your head off. They control movement, water, food, and general policing and “control” of the masses.


2 posted on 06/12/2014 7:56:12 PM PDT by Vermont Lt (If you want to keep your dignity, you can keep it. Period........ Just kidding, you can't keep it.)
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To: ChocChipCookie
To take over a city you occupy government buildings, police stations and media outlets. You kill or arrest any leftover officials, disarm or kill police, and broadcast new orders to the populace along with the penalties for disobedience.

Simple.

3 posted on 06/12/2014 7:57:01 PM PDT by hinckley buzzard
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To: ChocChipCookie

In America I think it would be a simple matter of going directly to the schools and seizing control of the kids.


4 posted on 06/12/2014 7:57:02 PM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: ChocChipCookie

basically it means they take over the city hall or other main government buildings


5 posted on 06/12/2014 7:58:21 PM PDT by TexasFreeper2009 (Obama lied .. the economy died.)
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To: ChocChipCookie

If your city was invaded by a group of well-armed individuals, you have some decisions to make...leave, fight or wait. Few if any will fight, leaving is perhaps to difficult. Wait and see might seem to be the most logical decision. Jews did not leave Warsaw though a few fought. Human nature and not too difficult to understand.


6 posted on 06/12/2014 8:01:24 PM PDT by yetidog
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To: ChocChipCookie

Gibbons wrote, paraphrasing, that a well fortified city of 10,000 can withstand an assault by an army of 100,000. But once within, a well organized armed group of 10,000 can control a city of one million.


7 posted on 06/12/2014 8:02:49 PM PDT by Williams
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To: ChocChipCookie

The Nazis took over the Warsaw ghetto, but it look months and the power of several divisions. The Jews in the ghetto had very few guns, but they used them.

In a city where resisters had guns and knew how to use them, it would be difficult to “take over” in any real sense, if the people truly were “resisters”.

This is the essence of Solzhenitsyn’s “How we burned in the camps ...”


8 posted on 06/12/2014 8:03:32 PM PDT by ClearCase_guy ("Harvey Dent, can we trust him?" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBsdV--kLoQ)
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To: ChocChipCookie

They kill or drive out police and security forces, controlling gas stations and other points of need for citizens


9 posted on 06/12/2014 8:04:06 PM PDT by Viennacon
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To: ChocChipCookie

There are many ways to take over a city. Look at Detroit.


10 posted on 06/12/2014 8:04:31 PM PDT by umgud
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To: ChocChipCookie
I think everybody else leaving might have something to do with it.
11 posted on 06/12/2014 8:07:49 PM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." --Tacitus)
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To: Viennacon

Another facet of the mideast is the Civilized Western lifestyle vs the pig lifestyle.

In those areas, one can offer a choice to the locals who have occupied the region for millennia, would you like for us to rebuild your society, so you can live free, with liberty and justice, as has matured in western civilization,....OR,...do you prefer to live like a pig?

Many will prefer the pig option, if for no other reason than to NOT live like a civilized westerner.


12 posted on 06/12/2014 8:08:19 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: ChocChipCookie

Soldiers, including guerrillas, are mostly very young, trained to fight, and are much more physically fit than most non-combat folks realize. Real training for real combat soldiers (very small percentage of total military personnel) is very uncomfortable, necessarily humiliating, lengthy and not “as seen on TV” or on civilian commando ranges. But without such training, people won’t fight like soldiers. Regardless of previous plans or determination, they’ll only be afraid and generally compliant.


13 posted on 06/12/2014 8:08:34 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: ChocChipCookie

Very fearful of what’s ahead.


14 posted on 06/12/2014 8:11:39 PM PDT by DefeatCorruption
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To: ChocChipCookie

The citizenry is unarmed. Those paid to protect them are cowards. Those who want to dominate them are utterly ruthless. After that, it’s easy.


15 posted on 06/12/2014 8:13:25 PM PDT by clintonh8r (Can Juan Williams possibly be that stupid?)
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To: ChocChipCookie

I know that you are a prepper in Phoenix right? Are you thinking of what you would do if Arizona was invaded? Yeah, me, too.


16 posted on 06/12/2014 8:17:04 PM PDT by lulu16 (May the Good Lord take a liking to you!)
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To: familyop

Even armed citizens will be this fearful?


17 posted on 06/12/2014 8:20:44 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: ChocChipCookie
all it takes is for an overwhelming mob of angry fanatics with swords....you think cops would come rushing to help?...no way....they'd wait for the guard which could take days....

from one neighborhood to another, taking on willing enlistees....

they could stop traffic coming into their hood...they could cut down cell phone towers....

it could happen....

18 posted on 06/12/2014 8:21:16 PM PDT by cherry
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To: ChocChipCookie

I think of two scenarios...Paris which fell without a shot, and Stalingrad. I suppose it depends on the willingness to fight. Frankly, I’m too old and it hurts when I kneel so I guess I would have to fight.


19 posted on 06/12/2014 8:21:24 PM PDT by W.Lee (After the first one, the rest are free.)
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To: Cvengr

“would you like for us to rebuild your society, so you can live free, with liberty and justice, as has matured in western civilization,....OR,...do you prefer to live like a pig?”

would you like for us to rebuild your society, so you can live free, with liberty and justice, as has matured in western civilization,....OR,...do you prefer to live on welfare?


20 posted on 06/12/2014 8:21:47 PM PDT by willywill
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To: ChocChipCookie
How do these people, "take over a city"?

First, you take over their health care and refuse to treat the residents.

Then you flood the city with immigrants from another country, and give the health care resources to them instead.

Then you drain the bank accounts of the residents and use the money to feed the immigrants.

Then you shut down the businesses that keep the residents employed, or enact punishing fines on the businesses so that they can't afford to keep the residents employed.

Then you break down the family structure of the residents in order to weaken their value system.

Then you stop teaching the children about math, science, and history, so that they lose their connections to their culture and national heritage, and make them dependent on those who took over the cities.

-PJ

21 posted on 06/12/2014 8:23:23 PM PDT by Political Junkie Too (If you are the Posterity of We the People, then you are a Natural Born Citizen.)
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To: familyop
But without such training, people won’t fight like soldiers.

Like this: What is your profession..?

22 posted on 06/12/2014 8:25:42 PM PDT by spokeshave (OMG.......Schadenfreude overload is not covered under Obamacare :-()
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To: ChocChipCookie

The Middle East is on fire, let it burn.


23 posted on 06/12/2014 8:26:35 PM PDT by anchorclankor (From the main part of Missouri)
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To: Olog-hai

Baghdad is not self sufficient for food. Want to starve the kids, or quietly MYOB?

The Sunni side will welcome the “liberators” Assume the Sadr militia will fight. If they lose, I would not want to be a Shia caught there after sundown. Lots of scores to settle.


24 posted on 06/12/2014 8:26:50 PM PDT by redlegplanner ( No Representation without Taxation)
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To: ChocChipCookie

The Middle East is on fire, let it burn.


25 posted on 06/12/2014 8:27:32 PM PDT by anchorclankor (From the main part of Missouri)
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To: ChocChipCookie

“taking over” is a very vague term. It basically means they can operate and move around in specific area without encountering severe combat.

That’s not to say the control the electricity, TV, radio, police, organs of government, etc... - that takes a long time, and from the sound of it Islamists are not very good at governing, only killing.


26 posted on 06/12/2014 8:27:37 PM PDT by PGR88
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To: ChocChipCookie

The Middle East is on fire, let it burn.


27 posted on 06/12/2014 8:28:22 PM PDT by anchorclankor (From the main part of Missouri)
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To: willywill

Well, the Marshall Plan only succeeded in turning western Europe into a Fabian socialist paradise, with the elites conspiring the whole time with respect to creating that European Union. Never mind further seducing US politicians into their socialistic mindset.


28 posted on 06/12/2014 8:30:04 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: willywill

seems to be a contagion.


29 posted on 06/12/2014 8:30:17 PM PDT by Cvengr (Adversity in life and death is inevitable. Thru faith in Christ, stress is optional.)
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To: redlegplanner

I was speaking rhetorically with respect to them.

This is a setup to give Iran an excuse to do something after all. They already regard their western borders as encompassing Iraq and Syria anyway.


30 posted on 06/12/2014 8:31:54 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Political Junkie Too

Where would I look to see your astute summary? /s


31 posted on 06/12/2014 8:32:55 PM PDT by KitJ (Shall not be infringed)
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To: clintonh8r

You have summed it up most exactly.


32 posted on 06/12/2014 8:33:10 PM PDT by jocon307
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To: Olog-hai

So sad, but true in highsight. The cafe society of the socialist is very seductive to those who are soft.


33 posted on 06/12/2014 8:33:56 PM PDT by lulu16 (May the Good Lord take a liking to you!)
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To: ChocChipCookie

It should be easy as a good portion of the population considers these monsters to be holy men.


34 posted on 06/12/2014 8:38:11 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: anchorclankor

They’ll be seeking revenge on the Great Satan no matter who is really responsible for the fire.

And Israel would be caught up in such a conflagration too.


35 posted on 06/12/2014 8:39:29 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: hinckley buzzard

don’t forget roadblocks to restrict travel.


36 posted on 06/12/2014 8:40:08 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: PGR88

” - - - Islamists are not very good at governing, - - - “

Not so anymore!

Taliban Mullah in Chief Hussein Obama made sure of that by promoting the Fab Five from Gitmo to Quatar.

So far, in just over a week all is going well for the Fab Five:

* Pakistan Airport attacks;

* Easy takeover of Mosul (pop. 2 million);

* Saddam’s hometown;

* Cake walk tomorrow to Bagdad.

The Taliban has no better ally than B. Hussein Obama - - - he truly has fulfilled the dreams of his Father(?s).


37 posted on 06/12/2014 8:41:57 PM PDT by Graewoulf (Democrats' Obamacare Socialist Health Insur. Tax violates U.S. Constitution AND Anti-Trust Law.)
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To: ChocChipCookie

1. Isolate the target by setting up checkpoints on the major land or sea arteries.
2. Move in and neutralize the security forces.
3. Occupy the government buildings and media outlets (radio/tv).
4. Take over the power, water and telephone facilities. Bribe or coerce the operators so they do what you say.
5. Enforce your will. Go house to house at your leisure.

Now you own the city. You are controlling the food and supplies that come in. You can turn the electricity and water on or off for punishment or reward. You can broadcast your instructions. You control the population.

Your occupation only took ten days or so. If there is a resistance, it will take several months to take shape. In the meantime, you eliminate them before they become a problem.

70% of the people won’t or can’t fight. 20% will only fight if they think they can win. 5% will bide their time until they think they will win. 5% will fight immediately. The last 5% are the ones you will neutralize in the first couple weeks. The other 5% you’ll neutralize in the next few weeks. You’ll need to knock out another 20% or so just to send a message. Very violent. Very merciless. Very effective.

K


38 posted on 06/12/2014 8:46:06 PM PDT by KitJ (Shall not be infringed)
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To: ChocChipCookie

They’re Muslims. Don’t think of an American city.


39 posted on 06/12/2014 8:48:11 PM PDT by gura (If Allah is so great, why does he need fat sexually confused fanboys to do his dirty work? -iowahawk)
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To: redlegplanner
Shia....that's who we rescued from Saddam and the minority Sunni....but Iran is Sunni....so is Syria....then there's AlQueda..the Taliban...ISIS....

its a difficult game to understand....

40 posted on 06/12/2014 8:52:19 PM PDT by cherry
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To: ChocChipCookie

Intimidation has a lot to do with it, I would imagine.

http://patdollard.com/2014/06/watch-graphic-horror-in-iraqi-roads-al-qaeda-killing-without-mercy/

Warning: it’s really graphic. Which was their point, I suppose.


41 posted on 06/12/2014 8:53:43 PM PDT by Nita Nupress ( Use your mind, not your emotions. Refuse to be manipulated by Marxists.)
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Comment #42 Removed by Moderator

To: ChocChipCookie

Take-over city hall, all key intersections, broadcast media stations, police stations.

Announce curfew.

Arrest Mayor, make him broadcast an acknowledgement of the power transition, then disappear him.

Replace police commanders, keep patrol officers & give them a totally new set of orders.

Issue new ID’s to citizens, assign Block Captain roles to “new patriots”.


43 posted on 06/12/2014 8:55:50 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: ChocChipCookie

Obama’s Vietnam, the redo.


44 posted on 06/12/2014 9:06:30 PM PDT by ExTexasRedhead
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To: Vermont Lt
If you step outside your home, they will cut your head off. They control movement, water, food, and general policing and “control” of the masses.

Kinda like post-Katrina New Orleans... or post Marathon Bombing Boston.

45 posted on 06/12/2014 9:08:12 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: cripplecreek
In America I think it would be a simple matter of going directly to the schools and seizing control of the kids.

Already in place.

46 posted on 06/12/2014 9:10:11 PM PDT by Rodamala
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To: ExTexasRedhead

This does have the feel of the last days of South Vietnam.


47 posted on 06/12/2014 9:19:55 PM PDT by bubbacluck (America 180)
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To: Olog-hai
"Even armed citizens will be this fearful?"

Yes. The most important training consists of activities without using a weapon--activities that cleanse a mind of emotions (e.g., absolute humility to be rid of pride, see drill sergeants) and distractions while training the body to extreme endurance.

An ancient Asian described it pretty well: a mind that is as calm as the surface of a still pond (during a fight). Focus without distraction is extremely important. No hate, no rage,...nothing. So, mind like pond water, body not like pond water. Heh.

Even some fire-and-maneuver courses require extreme endurance for success (e.g., not being hit in a sensor), and those are nothing nearly as exhausting as intense combat. Moving fast, often and in ways that are very uncomfortable for civilians is very important.


48 posted on 06/12/2014 9:28:41 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: spokeshave
"Like this: What is your profession..? "

That's true in regards to perfecting skills, but movies convey much vanity. A soldier can be trained initially very well for focus and fitness within a little over three months and can be more useful upon graduation than one who has long been in a lax home unit.

In other words, the tradesmen depicted in the video could have done very well, if they'd undergone an intensive, round the clock initial training and continued to develop skills and attitudes (analytical and focused) in training sessions along the way.

An ancient Roman leader once said that soldiers fresh out of well done initial training, with no combat experience, will experience a first battle as nothing more than a bloody exercise.


49 posted on 06/12/2014 9:35:43 PM PDT by familyop (We Baby Boomers are croaking in an avalanche of corruption smelled around the planet.)
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To: ChocChipCookie

A well armed society makes a huge difference.
And who is behind those guns of course.


50 posted on 06/12/2014 9:40:29 PM PDT by rwoodward ("god, guns and more ammo")
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