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This IT worker had to train an H-1B replacement (Bring back American jobs!)
Computerworld ^ | June 10, 2014 03:10 PM ET | Patrick Thibodeau

Posted on 06/16/2014 7:06:58 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network

U.S. workers protested job losses to foreign workers by displaying American flags in their cubicles

(Excerpt) Read more at computerworld.com ...


TOPICS: Business/Economy; Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: aliens; computers; h1b; outsourcing
Computerworld - This is the story of an IT worker who was replaced by a worker on an H-1B visa, one of a number of visa holders, mostly from India, who took jobs at this U.S. company. Computerworld is not going to use the worker's name or identify the companies involved to protect the former employee from retaliation.
1 posted on 06/16/2014 7:06:58 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

http://www.computerworld.com/s/article/9248996/This_IT_worker_had_to_train_an_H_1B_replacement


2 posted on 06/16/2014 7:07:28 AM PDT by Cringing Negativism Network (http://www.census.gov/foreign-trade/balance/c5700.html#2013)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I knew someone who worked in the IT department for Barkleys Bank and had to train his replacement. This was about 8 years ago.


3 posted on 06/16/2014 7:14:16 AM PDT by CaptainK (...please make it stop. Shake a can of pennies at it.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
Last year it was in reverse for me.

I was brought in to replace an Indian QA Manager who spent my first month training me on the Process in place. But the cost win for the company wasn't in replacing the Manager with me but in replacing the 4 offshore resources he was managing with less expensive resources from the Philippines for me to get up to speed.

After they got up to speed in 6 months I was let go as they made the senior offshore resource the QA Lead.

4 posted on 06/16/2014 7:16:48 AM PDT by AU72
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

American coders are the best in the world, period.


5 posted on 06/16/2014 7:18:59 AM PDT by ComputerGuy (BS, MS, PhD and a BMF besides)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

The H1 Visa program is a complete scam... it is meant ONLY for finding workers when NONE exist in the US for the job (IE outdated tech that all the folks who do it have retired etc), the idea you can’t find coders in the US is nonsense.

The H1B program is to skilled labor what illegal immigrants are to unskilled.

The very idea that a US employee is training his replacement that is an H1B visa holder should never be happening.


6 posted on 06/16/2014 7:19:44 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: HamiltonJay

Saw all this coming years ago. That’s why I ramped up on skills that neither a machine, computer or foreigner could do. I’m certified in English which helps too.


7 posted on 06/16/2014 7:21:52 AM PDT by bicyclerepair (The zombies here elected alcee hastings. TERM LIMITS ... TERM LIMITS)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I understand why it is advantageous for a corporation to be able to select employees from the largest possible pool.

What I resent the HELL out of is them LYING about the reason for increasing immigration - that there are no Americans capable doing of the job.

Make your argument but don’t spit on and besmirch Americans to get your way.


8 posted on 06/16/2014 7:29:21 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

This has been happening for years. Back in the 90’s we derided the code produced by Indians as throw away code (and it was) that had to be rewritten every time you had to make a change to it. Later companies got smart and would bring in about a dozen Indian workers to work with the American Coders. There they would learn proper coding techniques and buy into the company ethos. The top 2 or 3 were picked as managers and were sent back to India to “preach the gospel” so to speak and set up coding centers. The quality of code went up. Fact is the American worker cannot compete because there are many eager young Indian coders who will work long hours for little pay.


9 posted on 06/16/2014 7:30:38 AM PDT by crusadersoldier
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To: ComputerGuy
American coders are the best in the world, period.

I don't disagree, but companies still believe that they can get comparable work from an army of Indians vs. 1 or 2 competent American coders who'll work until their fingers bleed.

As much as I respect their culture, it's been my experience that many Indian IT workers are lazy and cut corners where they can.

I work in IT Infrastructure. I've had to train my replacement in previous entry-level IT jobs (i.e. Help Desk and account administration). It's the most emotionally and mentally taxing experience I've ever had. They don't want to learn. They figured out ways around how we did things to do them the way they were trained. Last I heard, the FCR numbers were in the toilet and most of the American reps quit in protest. Good riddance.

10 posted on 06/16/2014 7:30:48 AM PDT by rarestia (It's time to water the Tree of Liberty.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

I understand why it is advantageous for a corporation to be able to select employees from the largest possible pool.

What I resent the HELL out of is them LYING about the reason for increasing immigration - that there are no Americans capable doing of the job.

Make your argument but don’t spit on and besmirch Americans to get your way.


11 posted on 06/16/2014 7:36:44 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Harley motorcycles this. They fired their in house IT and went with a contracting service notorious for H1B workers. The company offered some of the old guys their jobs back for ridiculously low wages.

Harley... pretending to care about being American.


12 posted on 06/16/2014 7:38:12 AM PDT by drunknsage
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To: rarestia
I look for:

Curiosity
Conceptual Thinking
Creativity
13 posted on 06/16/2014 7:38:30 AM PDT by ComputerGuy (BS, MS, PhD and a BMF besides)
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To: crusadersoldier

I have worked in two shops that off-shored. One stayed with it even though the code sucked and had to be re-worked every time because in their words they were too deeply invested (and about half the American staff was still foreigners). The second I had the say so and within 6 months of taking the reigns I cut loose the off-shore element and hired two in house developers to take the place of four. Code quality and communication went up exponentially.


14 posted on 06/16/2014 7:38:56 AM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: DManA; Cringing Negativism Network

I disagree. I think these American companies are traitors.

Anybody who would look for serf laborers so they could fire their loyal employees and pay less is a slime. And I think they set it up from the beginning.

They’re damn leeches on our society, and they’re what’s wrong with America not recognizing that we have the best playing field and should charge others just to play in it.

This is classic predatory big business, and since it’s hand in glove with the government, it is NOT a free market.


15 posted on 06/16/2014 7:48:08 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Many governmental agencies are abusing the H1B process. I contracted at AAFES (Army Air Force Exchange Service) where many H1B-ers from India where treated like crap, were essentially salves to their contracting offices, and performed about as well as expected.

Every time I hear Bill Gates or a Fortune 100 company demand more H1Bs, I translate it as ‘we need more money and screw the American economy’.


16 posted on 06/16/2014 7:54:19 AM PDT by pikachu (After Monday and Tuesday, even the calender goes W T F !)
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To: ComputerGuy
I look for:

Curiosity
Conceptual Thinking
Creativity


Sometimes just looking for the simpler “Common Sense” is enough.

Sadly lacking in many applicants.

17 posted on 06/16/2014 8:06:29 AM PDT by az_gila
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To: bicyclerepair

This isn’t something new, been watching this for at least 15 years now if not longer, and of course no one in government cares... They don’t care if the system is abused, they set it up to be.

I am not worried myself, I have had to clean up too many messes these folks have made to worry about losing my job to them. I have at many times in my career told execs they were screwing their pooch with these types of actions, and then been called back years later to clean up the messes they made.

I have worked with countless folks from these countries, and on average they are 3rd tier, 2nd at best, once in a great great while I run into a top tier talent that happens to be from these places, but its incredibly rare.

However as long as companies view IT as a sunk cost instead of a strategic benefit, driving your direct costs down will be the criteria the management of such departments will get their bonuses based on and as long as that is the case, they will keep filling up their IT departments with 3rd tier talent from the 3rd world.


18 posted on 06/16/2014 8:11:44 AM PDT by HamiltonJay
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To: xzins

You aren’t disagreeing with me. I thing traitors lie about and besmirch American workers.


19 posted on 06/16/2014 8:12:08 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Does anyone know what company this is?


20 posted on 06/16/2014 8:15:47 AM PDT by privatedrive
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To: HamiltonJay

I came here on an H1-B and it is an injustice that someone with my skill had to be subject to a lottery. Luckily I won the lottery but a low level techie with 1/5 the salary could have received the honor of working in the US before me.


21 posted on 06/16/2014 8:30:36 AM PDT by impimp
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

Here is the truth... the Indian companies are exploiting the H1B visa program not by bringing over a single worker to replace an American but using the position to cycle through many IT workers. They do this by sending a worker here from India for one to two years then they go home. The American worker loses their job but the Indian worker makes 2 to 3 times more with an American Salary than with an Indian salary. Its rare to find an Indian worker who stays longer than 2 years unless they are management. Of course for certain things, its federal law that only a US Citizen can do so these companies based in India will hire a US Citizen but they will not give those people any career advancement because those jobs are only reserved for Indian employees of that company. A couple of years back it was under the radar but a well-known Indian company was sued because of this tactic. It is well known in India but very few people see it happening here. People complain that an foreign worker is taking their job, but its more that a position is being filed by many foreign workers who get cycled through the position.

I have worked for an multi billion international Indian company like this and there were major issues with their code that I would consistently bring to my lead who was Indian. I think at one time we had to rollback one integration that went on for several months before the Indian lead would finally admit there was a problem. Another data was not getting through and the Indian worker refused to own up to the mistake. I had to raise the issue up the chain of command finally to an American PM. Another time I was spending three to four hours a day with a worker in India who was supposed to know how to do basic SQL commands and I was training him on how to do it. I once sent him back the script and told him to fix it. He told me to fix it. I knew more about how to do the job but I was getting paid less than he was.

Another time there was a major memory leak because resources kept getting opened and but never closed. That’s basic coding 101 people! Open a resource, close it.

I don’t frown down upon these people for wanting to have a better way of life for themselves but I do frown upon it at my expense and every other American’s expense.


22 posted on 06/16/2014 8:49:43 AM PDT by zaxtres
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To: DManA

I am sorry for misunderstanding what you wrote, DManA. Thanks for clarifying.


23 posted on 06/16/2014 8:55:11 AM PDT by xzins ( Retired Army Chaplain and Proud of It! Those who truly support our troops pray for victory!)
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To: zaxtres

Once I asked new H1B programmer from India to find data from table. then I went somewhere, when I came back that joker was searching my desk, I asked him what are you doing ? He told me, he is searching data. He got fired same day but his Indian based company offered two more for same price.


24 posted on 06/16/2014 9:03:24 AM PDT by jennychase
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To: xzins
"I think these American companies are traitors."

Any companys that puts money before country are indeed greedy traitors. Soldiers in the military are dying for their country, is it too much to give up a few bucks?

And you can include those members of Congress who voted to make it possible.

25 posted on 06/16/2014 9:10:46 AM PDT by ex-snook (God forgives and forgets.)
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To: crusadersoldier
Fact is the American worker cannot compete because there are many eager young Indian coders who will work long hours for little pay.

I posted along the following line a while back, but it bears repeating. I worked with Indian programmers in Texas back in the late '90s. One of the married woman told me she'd be glad when her husband finished his 6-month gig at another business as he was putting in 60-70 hour weeks. I mentioned that at least he got overtime and she said "No, he was on salary and got only a $500 bonus" at the end of the gig. The real hooker was that his H1B company worked him all those hours, but only billed the customer for 40. So the customer always hired Indians as, under that arrangement, they nearly worked for half the U.S. rate.

Some high-powered economist was praising the H1B system, saying that the companies had to pay the same rate as U.S. citizens, so they weren't taking any jobs away. I wrote him about the above incident and he replied, "That's against the law!" No S... Sherlock, as employers will always find a dodge. What got me was that this guy was supposed to be an expert. It reminded of of that Rodney Dangerfield bit in "Back to School" where he clued the professor in on how the world REALLY works:
Thornton Melon (Dangerfield): Oh, you left out a bunch of stuff.
Dr. Phillip Barbay: Oh really? Like what for instance?
Thornton Melon: First of all you're going to have to grease the local politicians for the sudden zoning problems that always come up. Then there's the kickbacks to the carpenters, and if you plan on using any cement in this building I'm sure the teamsters would like to have a little chat with ya, and that'll cost ya. Oh and don't forget a little something for the building inspectors. Then there's long term costs such as waste disposal. I don't know if you're familiar with who runs that business but I assure you it's not the boyscouts.
Dr. Phillip Barbay: That will be quite enough, Mr. Melon! Maybe bribes, kickbacks and Mafia payoffs are how YOU do business! But they are NOT part of the legitimate business world!

26 posted on 06/16/2014 10:44:04 AM PDT by Oatka (This is America. Assimilate or evaporate.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network

We already have a massive population of illegal aliens from places like India. They overstay their visas then apply for a Taxpayer Identification Number. They get one, then a driver’s license, and then can always apply for jobs.


27 posted on 06/16/2014 10:50:35 AM PDT by CodeToad (Arm Up! They Are!)
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To: Oatka

Risking Topic Drift, here’s the YouTube link to that bit: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlVDGmjz7eM


28 posted on 06/16/2014 10:55:12 AM PDT by Oatka (This is America. Assimilate or evaporate.)
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To: Cringing Negativism Network
what would happen if the U.S. government were to impose restrictions on the H-1B visa and raise the cost of using it, and whether that could change the economics of offshoring and encourage more insourcing.

The cost of using an H-1B to an employer should be whatever the displaced US worker was earning per year, for each and every year the employer uses the H-1B worker, plus whatever the employer is paying directly for the H-1B worker.

Why? Because that is what the employer's actions are costing the US economy.

There are more available US citizens with the required degrees and skills than there are jobs available, yet the jobs are going to foreign workers, and for higher salaries than the US workers they are replacing. The quality of work is no better; the knowledge, skills, and abilities are no better. Someone has to be subsidizing this economic slaughter of US workers, and government is the only such entity I know of that subsidizes such backward, destructive policies.

29 posted on 06/16/2014 11:16:31 AM PDT by meadsjn
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To: Resolute Conservative
I have worked in two shops that off-shored. One stayed with it even though the code sucked and had to be re-worked every time because in their words they were too deeply invested (and about half the American staff was still foreigners). The second I had the say so and within 6 months of taking the reigns I cut loose the off-shore element and hired two in house developers to take the place of four.

The decisions to offshore are often made by higher ups (at the companies I've worked) who never have to personally deal with the repercussions of that decision. They see it as cost savings (salaries and benefits). They don't want to hear of impact on established project schedules which makes it rougher on the team working stateside with the offshore workers.

I'm still looking for a new gig but have been pleased to learn that at least a few companies I've interviewed with have gotten tired of dealing with issues associated with offshore or even just outsourced work and are bringing jobs back to inhouse permanent positions.

30 posted on 06/17/2014 5:29:43 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The new witchhunt: "Do you NOW, . . . or have you EVER , . . supported traditional marriage?")
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To: drunknsage
Harley motorcycles this. They fired their in house IT and went with a contracting service notorious for H1B workers. The company offered some of the old guys their jobs back for ridiculously low wages.

IBM laid off their technical staff and then expected them to move to India to earn 17% of their old salaries.

US corporations like US talent, but they don't want to pay for it. We are talking billion dollar corporations. I don't want wage caps on executives but persons like Bill Gates lied to Congress about the LACK of US talent to personally enrich himself of BILLIONS. If he's going to p!ss on my career by lowering salaries industry wide, then I am going to point out his deliberate deceit to the legislature of this nation. Mr. Gates may no longer run MS, but the legacy of his actions live on.

31 posted on 06/17/2014 5:30:16 PM PDT by a fool in paradise (The new witchhunt: "Do you NOW, . . . or have you EVER , . . supported traditional marriage?")
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