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'Stolen Our Flag': Pope Says Communists Are Closet Christians
NBC News ^ | 06/29/2014 | Reuters

Posted on 06/29/2014 9:34:47 AM PDT by Rusty0604

Pope Francis, whose criticisms of unbridled capitalism have prompted some to label him a Marxist, said in an interview published on Sunday that communists had stolen the flag of Christianity.

The pontiff gave an interview to Il Messaggero, Rome's local newspaper, to mark the feast of Saints Peter and Paul, a Roman holiday.

He was asked about a blog post in the Economist magazine that said he sounded like a Leninist when he criticized capitalism and called for radical economic reform.

"I can only say that the communists have stolen our flag. The flag of the poor is Christian. Poverty is at the center of the Gospel," he said, citing Biblical passages about the need to help the poor, the sick and the needy.

"Communists say that all this is communism. Sure, twenty centuries later. So when they speak, one can say to them: 'but then you are Christian'," he said, laughing.

(Excerpt) Read more at nbcnews.com ...


TOPICS: Religion
KEYWORDS:

1 posted on 06/29/2014 9:34:47 AM PDT by Rusty0604
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To: Rusty0604

Putting sugar on a turd doesn’t make it a brownie.


2 posted on 06/29/2014 9:39:17 AM PDT by Arm_Bears (Rope. Tree. Politician. Some assembly required.)
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To: Rusty0604

Another rube self-identifies.


3 posted on 06/29/2014 9:41:25 AM PDT by Sparklite
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To: Rusty0604

Either the Pope can’t manage to express himself coherently or these newspapers can’t translate and/or write properly. I wonder which it is.


4 posted on 06/29/2014 9:45:32 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: Rusty0604

Christianity and Communism are polar opposites, the welfare of the individual as opposed to the collective. Jesuit-trained Catholics used to know this.


5 posted on 06/29/2014 9:46:30 AM PDT by Argus
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To: Rusty0604

perception..... use it er lose it!

Dick.G: AMERICAN!
aka: Gunny G
*****


6 posted on 06/29/2014 9:49:22 AM PDT by gunnyg ("A Constitution changed from Freedom, can never be restored; Liberty, once lost, is lost forever...)
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To: Rusty0604
The more he opes his mouth, the more he lets you know who he is. When he was fist enthroned, everyone was saying how humble he was. Now the more coverage and attention he gets, the more he seems to enjoy it, and the more he puts his foot in his mouth.
7 posted on 06/29/2014 9:52:09 AM PDT by Fungi
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To: Rusty0604

This Pope is a not well closeted Communist.


8 posted on 06/29/2014 9:53:39 AM PDT by GladesGuru (Islam Delenda Est. Because of what Islam is - and for what Muslims do.)
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To: Rusty0604

Communism is based on the concept of envy, which is regarded as a sin. The Bible teaches, “Thou shalt not steal.” Communists have butchered millions of Christians in Russia, China, and elsewhere. A fair proportion of the martyred were Catholics. There should be no compromise with Communists, but rather their repentance and conversion.


9 posted on 06/29/2014 9:59:49 AM PDT by Wallace T.
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To: Rusty0604

What? What a strange thing to say. Is The Pope writing his own public statements? If so, it might be time to hire out, get more consistency and professional management of his messages. Maybe I haven’t heard this statement in proper context.


10 posted on 06/29/2014 10:09:21 AM PDT by lee martell
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To: Rusty0604
Except for that little thing about murdering a hundred million-plus of their own citizens in the last century.

Other than that they're are exactly like Christians.

11 posted on 06/29/2014 10:16:17 AM PDT by E. Pluribus Unum ("The more numerous the laws, the more corrupt the government." --Tacitus)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

‘Except for that little thing about murdering a hundred million-plus of their own citizens in the last century.

Other than that they’re are exactly like Christians.’

That plus the matter of atheism. Communism is aggressively atheistic. How can even a sane, much less semi-educated/intelligent person, not know this?


12 posted on 06/29/2014 10:22:15 AM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Rusty0604

Yeah, they’re “Christians.” How did I not see this before.

Most Communists deny the existance of God (at least the God of David, Abraham and Paul), just like Christians.

They place complete faith and allegience to the State, just like Christians.

They reject traditional families, just like Christians.

They punish hard work and reward incompetence, just like Christians.

It’s all clear now!


13 posted on 06/29/2014 10:23:41 AM PDT by Rides_A_Red_Horse (Why do you need a fire extinguisher when you can call the fire department?)
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To: Fantasywriter

Can’t give your life to the State and to God at the same time.


14 posted on 06/29/2014 10:26:03 AM PDT by Rusty0604
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To: Rusty0604

Communists are atheists. Maybe he wants to start “Communists for Christ.”


15 posted on 06/29/2014 10:27:27 AM PDT by DManA
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To: Rusty0604

Don’t immanentize the eschaton.


16 posted on 06/29/2014 10:28:30 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: Rusty0604

That is true. But there is another point as well. Namely, Communism claims to be for the poor, but in practice they create a vastly larger, more destitute class of poor—which concomitantly creating a princely class of multi-millionaire/billionaire overlords. What is Christian about that?


17 posted on 06/29/2014 10:30:05 AM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Fantasywriter

which concomitantly = while concomitantly


18 posted on 06/29/2014 10:31:14 AM PDT by Fantasywriter (Any attempt to do forensic work using Internet artifacts is fraught with pitfalls. JoeProbono)
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To: Rusty0604
Closet Christians? It's always been my *clear* understanding that Communists are of the opinion that *all* the “rendering” should be unto Caesar.
19 posted on 06/29/2014 10:40:00 AM PDT by Gay State Conservative (Rat Party Policy:Lie,Deny,Refuse To Comply)
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To: Rusty0604

I have NEVER thought “POVERTY” was the center of the Gospels!!! It is SALVATION!!!! You don’t get to heaven because you are in poverty. OMG!


20 posted on 06/29/2014 10:47:06 AM PDT by Ann Archy (Abortion.....the Human Sacrifice to the god of Convenience.)
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To: Rusty0604

lost. his. flipping. mind.

charity is voluntary from the heart. not forced by government and confiscated on threat of fines and jail.


21 posted on 06/29/2014 11:02:28 AM PDT by Secret Agent Man ( Gone Galt; Not averse to Going Bronson.)
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To: Argus

Pope Francis is coming out of the closet as an open follower of Marxist Liberation Theology.

Pope Francis is more open to the followers of proscribed Marxist liberation theology than to orthodox traditional Catholics.

According to cardinal Muller, the prefect for the Congregation for the Doctrine of the faith, and he himself a follower of liberation theology, pope Francis have close ties with that Marxist movement.

Keep in mind that the Jesuits have been at the front lines of the expansion of the “liberation theology” through out Latin America.

Pope Francis is maintaining as incontrovertible fact that “communists care passionately for the poor” even though more than 150 million human being have been sacrificed at the altar of that diabolical ideology.

I wonder if it as another of the manifestations of the “passionate care” of the communists for the poor the Holodomor ordered by Stalin when more than 7 million Ukrainian peasants, many of them Catholics, were starved to death?

It is blasphemous that Pope Francis equate the Gospel’s preferential option for the poor to the communist false pretense of caring for the poor while conducing to “the enslavement of man despoiled of his rights, the horrible abuse of public power in the service of a collectivist terrorism, are the very contrary of all that corresponds with natural ethics and the will of the Creator.” (Divini Redemptoris, 33)(Cuba and North Korea are typical examples of communist “passionate care” for the poor)

Pope Francis concurs with communists in criticizing “certain elements of an economic system that can at times lead to inequities and social exclusion”.

Although there are shortcomings in the free enterprise capitalist system, it is a fact that no other system has improved the lives of the poor more successfully.

Pope Francis has repeatedly attacked and belittled the achievements of the free enterprise system, to the extreme to affirm that “In his view, the successful implementation of such theories “have never been confirmed by the facts,” but I never heard the Pope criticizing the even worse inequities, lost of freedoms and brutal oppression inherent on the communist system, a system defined by the Magisterium of the Church as intrinsically evil (S.S. Pius XI Encyclical letter “Divini Redemptoris” on Atheistic Communism. 1937)


22 posted on 06/29/2014 11:11:24 AM PDT by Dqban22
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To: Rusty0604; metmom; Alex Murphy

**Poverty is at the center of the Gospel,**

Spiritual poverty certainly is. Not being broke.

Comrade Frank’s Socialist roots are showing.


23 posted on 06/29/2014 11:16:28 AM PDT by Gamecock (There is room for all of God's animals. Right next to the mashed potatoes and gravy.)
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To: Rusty0604
As a cradle Catholic, it pains me to see the spectacle that Pope Francis is making of himself and the Church. Gregarious, kind, humble, and with a reformist zeal, Francis had -- and I hope still has -- the potential to be an effective pastoral Pope who makes the Catholic faith more approachable and the Vatican more effective.

Unfortunately, on Church and society issues, Pope Francis manifests uncritical, reflexive populism and a dose of liberation theology that is at odds with his predecessors and core Catholic teachings. Enough such comments have gone on record without correction that one is forced to conclude that Pope Francis is usually being quoted accurately.

Before making any more absurdly generous comments about communists being crypto Christians, Pope Francis would do well to review the record of brutality and persecution experienced by Catholics at the hands of communists in Eastern Europe. He might also consult with his priests and bishops in China, where they and ordinary Catholics frequently suffer abuse, beatings, and imprisonment by communists. Catholics in China deserve to hear steadfast public support and earnest prayer by Pope Francis, not sappy, half-baked public compliments toward their tormentors.

24 posted on 06/29/2014 11:34:02 AM PDT by Rockingham
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To: Rusty0604

I am sure this pope misses feudalism which was soviet style communism wrapped in divine right and peppered with swords. In the Middle Ages the Church was where the money was at.


25 posted on 06/29/2014 11:37:03 AM PDT by WMarshal (Free citizen, never a subject or a civilian.)
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To: Rusty0604

As a Catholic I’m gonna have to say he has lost his ever-Lovin’ mind. It is not possible for communists to be Christians, seeing how the former love to murder the latter.

And all this so called humility, riding the bus, sleeping in area different from all previous Period, etc., draws a lot of attention to him, which is why I’m beginning to see this as a false humility.


26 posted on 06/29/2014 11:44:23 AM PDT by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God! ROLL TIDE!!)
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To: Rusty0604

Huh?


27 posted on 06/29/2014 11:45:33 AM PDT by SkyDancer (If you don't read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read newspapers you are misinformed)
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To: Lil Flower

Oh and the salvation of souls is his calling, which is certainly more important than poverty. He is failing in his calling.


28 posted on 06/29/2014 11:49:13 AM PDT by Lil Flower (American by birth. Southern by the Grace of God! ROLL TIDE!!)
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To: Rusty0604
Huh? is right.

What in the netherworld is he talking about? No comprendo!

Does he deliberately talk in amorphous language so everyone can read anything they want to into his pronouncements?

Oh, I know, it's the translators' fault again.

Actually, I think he's in a contest with Rand Paul for attention.

Leni

29 posted on 06/29/2014 11:53:07 AM PDT by MinuteGal (The Infernal Revenue Service - forever to be known as the BS-IRS)
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To: miss marmelstein

There is no reason in the world that the Pope cannot clearly explain the precise meaning of the words he uses, especially in retrospect. He can even employ a plethora of helpers.

A shepherd knows his own sheep, and the sheep know their shepherd.


30 posted on 06/29/2014 11:55:22 AM PDT by jjotto ("Ya could look it up!")
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To: Rusty0604

Yet another poor translation, no doubt. Remember, it is he socialist media that writes these stories.


31 posted on 06/29/2014 12:15:51 PM PDT by Captain Jack Aubrey (There's not a moment to lose.)
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To: Captain Jack Aubrey

The socialist media


32 posted on 06/29/2014 12:16:24 PM PDT by Captain Jack Aubrey (There's not a moment to lose.)
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To: Rusty0604
"Communists say that all this is communism. Sure, twenty centuries later. So when they speak, one can say to them: 'but then you are Christian'," he said, laughing.

Sounds like the Pope is claiming that Christianity and Communism are the same. He clearly does not understand the pure evil that is Communism and the over 100 million deaths it has caused.

33 posted on 06/29/2014 12:38:16 PM PDT by Repeal 16-17 (Let me know when the Shooting starts.)
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To: E. Pluribus Unum

From “Dark REBELLION in the Church” - Jesuits, theology of liberation, Carmelites, Marianists and Socialists: the final complaint.” Ricardo de la Cierva. P. 11-13

“Your theology helps the transformation of Latin America more than millions of books on Marxism” Fidel Castro to Leonardo Boff and Frei Beto in the presence of the Spanish Bishop in Brazil, Pedro Casáldiga, C.M.F., who plays end the phrase in his book Nicaragua, combat and prophecy, Madrid, helped, 1986, p.134

“The Mission of the Jesuits in the third world is to create conflict. We are the only powerful group in the world that makes it.” César Jerez S. J., provincial of Central America 1976-1982, at a meeting of Jesuits in Boston, New England Jesuit News, April, 1973.

“At the same time we Christians are children of a Virgin and a whore (Ivan Illich) and believe that this is the truth.” Ernesto Cardenal, priest and then Minister of Nicaragua, in the biography of J. L. González, Salamanca, “Follow me”, 1978, p.23

“The Communists, and not the Jesuits, are winning the battle of atheism.” Igor Bonchkovski in New Times, n.40, Moscow, 1975

“The national planning of the Society of Jesus in the United States should, following the example of China, become an international planning. Towards the convergence of problems in all areas of the world around a single theme: the construction in different times and forms of a world Communist society.”

Strategic document of a group of Dutch Jesuits - in collaboration with other Jesuit revolutionaries—published for internal debate in the official journal of the society of Jesus in the United States, National Jesuit News, April 1972.

“Socialist societies are very ethical, clean, physically and morally. If it weren’t for his materialist doctrine it could be argued that they carried out the ethical teaching of the social doctrine of the Church.” Leonardo Boff on his return from a trip to Moscow, cfr.ABC, 16-VII-87, p.45...

Marxist theologian, Leonardo Boff was elated at the election of Pope Francis... It seems that Pope Francis share with the Liberation Theologians the same high regard for Communist values.

“Marxism provides a scientific understanding of the mechanisms of oppression in the world, at local and national levels; It offers the vision of a new world which must be built as a socialist society, the first step to a classless society, where genuine brotherhood can be hopefully possible, and by which deserves sacrifice everything.” Declaration of the theological Association of India in the magazine Vidyajyoti, of the Theological Faculty of the Jesuits in Delhi, April, 1986.

Pope Francis has persecuted traditional Catholics that follow the Tridentine Mass, but it seems to maintain close ties with the leaders of the Marxist liberation theology, a movement condemned by Pope John Paul II and Benedict XVI and the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith.

Pope Francis has affirmed that he has met many Marxists in his life who are good people, so he doesn’t feel offended when he’s questioned about his Marxist proclivities. I wonder how Pope Francis’ remarks would have been received if he were referring to the many good people he has met who were Nazis? After all, many more Christians have been murdered and persecuted by the “good Marxists” than by the “good” Nazis.

It is very worrisome that it is the Prefect of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith, Cardinal Muller, he himself a follower of the liberation theology, who confirms that Pope Francis has close ties with the liberation theology, something that is in clear defiance to the Magisterium of the Church.


34 posted on 06/29/2014 3:19:40 PM PDT by Dqban22
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To: Rusty0604

Stupid thing to say. Apples and oranges.


35 posted on 06/29/2014 5:34:08 PM PDT by WriteOn (Truth)
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