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Historians claim typo in Declaration of Independence changes its meaning
downtrend.com ^ | 07/04/2014 | Robert Gehl

Posted on 07/04/2014 9:10:19 AM PDT by Sasparilla

And, of course, an over reaching government agrees...

(Excerpt) Read more at downtrend.com ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: biggovernment; feldercarb; garbage

1 posted on 07/04/2014 9:10:19 AM PDT by Sasparilla
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To: Sasparilla

Oh oh....typo...Sounds like a call to Dan Rather is in order.


2 posted on 07/04/2014 9:12:18 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Sasparilla
A professor at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton argues the period is nothing than an errant ink stain and shouldn’t be there.

This sentence reads like satire. This should be funny, but it's disgusting.

3 posted on 07/04/2014 9:14:27 AM PDT by CommieCutter ("For an idea to be too simplistic, it must first be proven wrong" --Thomas Sowell)
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To: Sasparilla

And of course no one at the time, 1776 discovered the error.


4 posted on 07/04/2014 9:14:35 AM PDT by Maine Mariner
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To: Sacajaweau

The capital ‘T’ in the word ‘That’ should end any controversy. It is the beginning of a new sentence.


5 posted on 07/04/2014 9:15:04 AM PDT by Right Brother
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To: Sasparilla

So are the “Federalist Papers” a typo too?


6 posted on 07/04/2014 9:15:48 AM PDT by SecondAmendment (Restoring our Republic at 9.8357x10^8 FPS)
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To: Sasparilla

Not enough information but “Typo”? Typewriter were not invented for a couple hundred years after the Constitution was written, probably with quill pens. Lets go to the original signed document to see what the law really is and leave the sensationalism behind.


7 posted on 07/04/2014 9:16:42 AM PDT by mountainlion (Live well for those that did not make it back.)
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To: CommieCutter
argues the period is nothing more than an errant ink stain and shouldn’t be there.

I could argue the same for the current occupant of the White House.

8 posted on 07/04/2014 9:17:27 AM PDT by Right Brother
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To: Sasparilla

No REAL historian would say any such thing...particularly given the background and copious writings of the Founding Fathers and/or signers.


9 posted on 07/04/2014 9:19:00 AM PDT by SumProVita (Cogito, ergo....Sum Pro Vita - Modified Descartes)
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To: mountainlion

That’s my understanding: one cannot have a “typo” unless the document is printed with some sort of a machine.


10 posted on 07/04/2014 9:19:13 AM PDT by 1rudeboy
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To: Right Brother

“The capital ‘T’ in the word ‘That’ should end any controversy. It is the beginning of a new sentence.”

Bingo!


11 posted on 07/04/2014 9:19:32 AM PDT by Larry - Moe and Curly (Loose lips sink ships.)
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To: Right Brother

Liberals also agree that the Second Amendment is an errant ink stain and shouldn’t be there.


12 posted on 07/04/2014 9:19:47 AM PDT by Sasparilla
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To: Sasparilla
That's what they get for letting Betsy Ross type the dang thang. She never was very good at typing. They should have let Abigail Adams type it. She is much better because she didn't have callouses on her finger tips from all that sewing.
13 posted on 07/04/2014 9:24:57 AM PDT by TomGuy
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To: Right Brother
BINGO!

when asked for comment....Sheila Jackson Lillipops Lee was Unavailable for Comment...




14 posted on 07/04/2014 9:25:02 AM PDT by MeshugeMikey ( "Never, never, never give up". Winston Churchill)
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To: Sasparilla
"The American Revolution was all a big mistake. The Founding Fathers actually wanted a socialist dictatorship."





NOT!


15 posted on 07/04/2014 9:26:06 AM PDT by Paine in the Neck (Socialism consumes EVERYTHING)
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To: Right Brother

Also, the presence of the word “and” before “the Pursuit of Happiness” indicates the end of a list of discrete items. It would make no sense to put “and” after the second item in a list of four items.

Talk about grasping at straws!

And isn’t it the liberals who always say that the Declaration of Independence is not a governing document? It’s disingenuous of them to appeal to it to justify big government. But then, disingenuousness is the very foundation of liberalism.


16 posted on 07/04/2014 9:27:03 AM PDT by scouter
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To: Sasparilla

I suspect Danny Boy Rather would rather stay out of this tempest in a teapot.

Reading the words “Life, Liberty, and the pursuit of happiness” as used by the Founders, the phrase which follows is clear and unambiguous whether or not any punctuation precedes it.

This argument started as a valid historical document examination and publication of a hypothesis. Thanks to America having allowed a plague of lawyers upon the face of the land, and having tolerated commies beyond number in the agencies and among the Academented, this debate now reeks of the agenda driven seeking a peg on which to hang their totalitarian helmet.

George Washington didn’t just talk to the abusive English “swarm of officers sent hither”, when goaded beyond toleration,he and the Americans he led, shot them.

Obamoids think history ended with their glorious assumption of power. End the end, it will be as it must be -
History: 1
Obamoids: 0


17 posted on 07/04/2014 9:33:48 AM PDT by GladesGuru (Islam Delenda Est. Because of what Islam is - and for what Muslims do.)
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To: CommieCutter

I don’t see what difference it makes whether it’s a new sentence or not.

(A) We hold these truths to be self-evident,
(B) that all men are created equal,
(C) that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights,
(D) that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
(E) —That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
(F) —That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

Whether or not Clause (E) is subordinate to clause (D), they are both still subordinate to clause (A).


18 posted on 07/04/2014 9:36:42 AM PDT by scrabblehack
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To: SumProVita

A REAL historian would have looked closely at the development of the phrase and known that it was the subject of great discussion - that “property” was preferred by some to “pursuit of Happiness”. The connotation property perhaps having a wider meaning than today, but was determined to be subsumed by the term adopted. Liberals would never want anyone to understand the ramifications of the original intent. Today’s Government would never let one think that they can actually have a property right not subject to the Governments ability to take it.


19 posted on 07/04/2014 9:38:20 AM PDT by LibertyOh
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To: Right Brother
The capital ‘T’ in the word ‘That’ should end any controversy. It is the beginning of a new sentence.

Not necessarily, since there's another capital 'T" in the word 'That' found later in the same sentence.

Both 'Thats' follow a dash, a punctuation mark seldom used today, so I'm unclear what it's supposed to mean.

However, the second 'That' and its dash are preceded by a comma, and to my mind if the first 'That' was intended to also be part of the same sentence, it would also be preceded by a comma.

A quick look at the Declaration will show clearly that capital letters are used a lot more frequently and apparently randomly than they are today.

20 posted on 07/04/2014 9:42:21 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles. Reality wins all the wars.)
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To: Sasparilla

I just happen to have a photo copy of that document (given out everywhere back in 1976). This is what it says....

” ...the pursuit of Happiness.- That to secure these rights Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,- ...”
Please notice the first break has .- and the second has ,- that is, a period on the first, and a comma on the second.


21 posted on 07/04/2014 9:53:09 AM PDT by Ruy Dias de Bivar (Sometimes you need more than seven rounds, Much more.)
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To: CommieCutter

Sorry it won’t work, its a period, period!
If it looks like a period ad walks like a period, its a period.


22 posted on 07/04/2014 9:55:56 AM PDT by Rock N Jones
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To: scrabblehack

I could not agree more with your conclusion but there is clearly a period there. I would suggest that this professor is nothing but an errant ink stain on The Institute which was home to Einstein who must be rolling over in his grave


23 posted on 07/04/2014 9:59:33 AM PDT by cmwy
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To: Sasparilla
Aside from the fact that good penmanship was considered an important skill at the time the Declaration was written, the idea that a document so monumentally important would be released for the entire world to see with an ink smear on it is an unbelievably stupid assertion.

The American colonists were not unaware that they were regarded as back-country rubes by their English "betters" and would have been hyper-aware of the presentation of the document.

What a monumentally stupid broad this "historian" is.

24 posted on 07/04/2014 9:59:53 AM PDT by Madame Dufarge
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To: Sasparilla
Is this an argument rooted in some attempt to Constitutionally justify big government? I’m not sure, but it’s got the attention of the National Archives, which is considering changing their online presentation of the founding document.

The stupid hurts.

1. This is the Declaration of Independence, not the Constitution of the United States, so even a change would not "constitutionally" justify big government.

2. While the upper case T in "That" is not conclusive (upper case was common mid-sentence due to the German influence on grammar in that century), the period is clearly in the right location and of the right size. There is no indication in the form of the mark that this is anything but an intentional punctuation mark. Further, the presence of the same mark in multiple previous drafts is essentially conclusive proof that the sentence was intended to end at that point.

25 posted on 07/04/2014 10:01:41 AM PDT by Pollster1 ("Shall not be infringed" is unambiguous.)
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To: Sacajaweau

“Oh oh....typo...Sounds like a call to Dan Rather is in order.”

In between blowing spit bubbles and farting into a sofa cushion, he says that the period there is not the same period as that found on an IBM Selectric with a script type ball, so it must be an ink stain.


26 posted on 07/04/2014 10:06:13 AM PDT by The Antiyuppie ("When small men cast long shadows, then it is very late in the day.")
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To: Right Brother
IIRC, the phrase goes back to Locke...and read: "life liberty and property"

It's always important that these phrases are in context.

27 posted on 07/04/2014 10:06:41 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau
Oh oh....typo...Sounds like a call to Dan Rather is in order

Mr. Rather faxed me over a copy of the original that was faxed to him from Kinkos. Yep, no period. Case closed.

Per Dan if fake his copy is real and accurate. Who are you going to believe, the brilliant men that wrote that document or Dan Rather? /S

28 posted on 07/04/2014 10:08:15 AM PDT by cpdiii (=)
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To: Right Brother

Besides the capitalization, there’s an extended space between the words which also indicates the start of a new sentence. This “historian” is grasping at straws and coming off as a joke.


29 posted on 07/04/2014 10:09:06 AM PDT by Bob
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To: Sasparilla
A professor at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton argues the period is nothing than an errant ink stain and shouldn’t be there.

UNMITIGATED BULLSHIIT.

30 posted on 07/04/2014 10:09:20 AM PDT by GoldenPup
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To: Sasparilla; All

Good observations freepers!

For what it's worth, there's related issues with the Constitution, issues which have been noted. The problem with the Constitution is that it was hand-written, intermediate revisions of Constitution before final draft probably not destroyed like they should have been. Multiple versions of the 2nd Amendment are an example. Have a look.

Second Amendment to the United States Constitution

31 posted on 07/04/2014 10:21:04 AM PDT by Amendment10
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To: mountainlion

“Typewriter were not invented for a couple hundred years after the Constitution was written, probably with quill pens.”

Your statement that the “Typewriter were not invented for a couple hundred years after the Constitution was written” is incorrect. I own a Caligraph typewriter that was manufactured about 1880-1883, so typewriters were in existence only 93 years after the Constitution was handwritten and engrossed in 1787.

Yes, the draft and final copies of the Constitution were handwritten and engrossed using quill pens.


32 posted on 07/04/2014 10:25:21 AM PDT by WhiskeyX
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To: Sherman Logan

Would you care to repeat that?


33 posted on 07/04/2014 10:34:02 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: SecondAmendment

No, they’re a revolutionary Rohrschach test.


34 posted on 07/04/2014 10:35:36 AM PDT by liberalh8ter (The only difference between flash mob 'urban yutes' and U.S. politicians is the hoodies.)
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To: Sasparilla
Professor Danielle Allen argues that also a “truth” is the role of government in securing these rights.

Along with that "truth" comes the czar and fetters. It's the 1960s Marxist-Alinsky campus radical, psycho spoiled brat The Fetteralist Capers.

35 posted on 07/04/2014 11:16:42 AM PDT by WilliamofCarmichael (If modern America's Man on Horseback is out there, Get on the damn horse already!)
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To: Right Brother
I could argue the same for the current occupant of the White House.

^^^^100^^^^

36 posted on 07/04/2014 11:34:37 AM PDT by Las Vegas Ron ("Medicine is the keystone in the arch of socialism" Vladimir Lenin)
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To: scrabblehack
(F) -That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness.

That right there dismisses any argument based on ink splotches or the primacy of any form of government over the people.

Case closed.

37 posted on 07/04/2014 11:35:49 AM PDT by Covenantor ("Men are ruled...by liars who refuse them news, and by fools who cannot govern." Chesterton)
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To: Sasparilla

So a progressive professor (redundant I know) finds what she thinks is a typo on a 240 year old document that gives MASSIVE power to the government but can’t find a single anomaly on Obama’s birth certificate.


38 posted on 07/04/2014 11:56:49 AM PDT by Organic Panic
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To: scrabblehack

I honestly don’t see it either to tell you the truth.

All the variables are still there as you have listed.


39 posted on 07/04/2014 1:02:13 PM PDT by CommieCutter ("For an idea to be too simplistic, it must first be proven wrong" --Thomas Sowell)
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To: Sasparilla

The only protection of those rights is supposed to be founded in the Constitution itself, not the government structure it lays out and particularly not a functioning government which makes of itself a higher right than the individual rights the Constitution is founded to protect. The protection of THAT CONSTITUTION and its individual rights is the OBLIGATION of the government, above any political prerogatives or policy ambitions of those elected or appointed to the government.


40 posted on 07/04/2014 2:11:17 PM PDT by Wuli
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To: Sacajaweau

“Historians Claim A Typo In Declaration Of Independence Changes Its Meaning”

I would only point out the irony of a “Typo” Being found in the Declaration of independence.


41 posted on 07/04/2014 3:22:31 PM PDT by Pete from Shawnee Mission
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To: Pete from Shawnee Mission

Democrip voters won’t know why this is a deeply flawed lie.


42 posted on 07/04/2014 3:23:55 PM PDT by MHGinTN
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To: Sasparilla
"That among these" is conclusive in saying that life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness are only 3 of them.

Look at the original writing. There is a period and a dash....in fact there are several of them. Its a technique...a period and a pause. Almost like a new paragraph.

43 posted on 07/04/2014 3:29:33 PM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Sasparilla
Ink smear? There are 26 surviving copies of the original, not "rough drafts". That would be an awful lot of chances to correct an "ink smear". Count me among the skeptics.
44 posted on 07/04/2014 3:34:13 PM PDT by Billthedrill
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To: CommieCutter

While pointing out a possible, and not at all probable, as it is meant to afford further intrusion on citizens, error in the most important document in history outside of the Bible is typical of non-journalist’s journalism where no one proof reads their work: “A professor at the Institute for Advanced Study in Princeton argues the period is nothing (more?) than an errant ink stain and shouldn’t be there.”

Parentheses mine.


45 posted on 07/04/2014 7:06:35 PM PDT by Blue Collar Christian (There's only one reason for authorities to take the arms of good people.)
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To: Sasparilla

Totally pathetic and bogus. Whether it’s a comma or a period, it alters the meaning not one iota.

Just some Statists grasping at straws.


46 posted on 07/04/2014 10:48:56 PM PDT by Arthur McGowan
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