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The Minoans were Caucasian
Daily Mail (UK) ^ | 5-16-2013 | Damien Gayle

Posted on 07/12/2014 4:58:18 AM PDT by Renfield

DNA analysis has debunked the longstanding theory that the Minoans, who some 5,000 years ago established Europe's first advanced Bronze Age culture, were from Africa.

The Minoan civilisation arose on the Mediterranean island of Crete in approximately the 27th century BC and flourished for 12 centuries until the 15th century BC.

But the culture was lost until British archaeologist Sir Arthur Evans unearthed its remains on Crete in 1900, where he found vestiges of a civilisation he believed was formed by refugees from northern Egypt.

Modern archaeologists have cast doubt on that version of events, and now DNA tests of Minoan remains suggests they were descended from ancient farmers who settled the islands thousands of years earlier.

These people, it is believed, are from the same stock that came from the East to populate the rest of Europe....

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS: History; Science
KEYWORDS: anatolia; anthropology; archaeology; carian; carians; catastrophism; caucasian; epigraphyandlanguage; etruria; etruscan; etruscans; genetics; godsgravesglyphs; helixmakemineadouble; history; hurrian; hurrians; israel; lemnianstele; lemnos; letshavejerusalem; minoan; minoans; science; telkabri

1 posted on 07/12/2014 4:58:19 AM PDT by Renfield
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To: SunkenCiv

Ping


2 posted on 07/12/2014 4:58:35 AM PDT by Renfield (Turning apples into venison since 1999!)
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To: Renfield

But...but....it can’t be...we’re all descended from apes and I’ve never see a white ape.


3 posted on 07/12/2014 5:07:40 AM PDT by Sacajaweau
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To: Sacajaweau

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Snowflake_(gorilla)


4 posted on 07/12/2014 5:19:10 AM PDT by Truth29
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To: Renfield

More than likely they were the same racial stock as the Achaean Greeks and the Hittites.


5 posted on 07/12/2014 5:27:25 AM PDT by Daveinyork
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To: Renfield
Indeed, the Minoan shared the greatest percentage of their mitochondrial DNA variation with European populations, especially those in Northern and Western Europe.

When Atlantis sank we went north. ;)

6 posted on 07/12/2014 5:31:02 AM PDT by D Rider (Don't give sharp objects to small children)
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To: Renfield

Then, the DNA is raciss!


7 posted on 07/12/2014 5:54:58 AM PDT by Gaffer
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To: Renfield

So all white people are cretans now. That explains everything.


8 posted on 07/12/2014 5:55:53 AM PDT by bravo whiskey (we shouldn't fear the government. the government should fear us.)
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To: Renfield

I thought it was well established that Minoan script is a form of early Greek.


9 posted on 07/12/2014 5:56:45 AM PDT by sphinx
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To: Renfield

This explains the lack of graffiti found in archaeological digs.


10 posted on 07/12/2014 6:29:40 AM PDT by relictele (Principiis obsta & Finem respice - Resist The Beginnings & Consider The Ends)
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To: relictele

And crushed skulls.


11 posted on 07/12/2014 6:34:46 AM PDT by Vaduz
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To: Renfield

I have never read or heard of them being anything but Caucasian.


12 posted on 07/12/2014 6:38:34 AM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Renfield
Just had to look at their frescoes
13 posted on 07/12/2014 7:01:58 AM PDT by Mount Athos (A Giant luxury mega-mansion for Gore, a Government Green EcoShack made of poo for you)
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To: Sacajaweau

Try “Floquet de Neu”.


14 posted on 07/12/2014 7:07:29 AM PDT by peteyd (A dog may bite you in the ass,but it will never stab you in the back.)
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To: Mount Athos

I’ve always noticed how Minoan women wore short sleeve tops that bared their breasts.

That lovely distraction has proven fatal to many an ancient civilization.

;^)


15 posted on 07/12/2014 7:10:15 AM PDT by elcid1970 ("In the modern world, Muslims are living fossils.")
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To: sphinx

Not exactly.

The Minoans used two methods of writing, hieroglyphics (probably derived from but not the same as the Egyptian variety) and Linear A, a script but not an alphabet, which may have developed out of the hieroglyphs. Neither has been deciphered.

Linear A developed on the mainland among the barbaric Myceaneans into Linear B script, which has been deciphered and shown to be early Greek.

All attempts to similarly decipher Linear A have failed, which probably means the Minoans spoke a completely unrelated language.


16 posted on 07/12/2014 7:27:34 AM PDT by Sherman Logan (Perception wins all the battles. Reality wins all the wars.)
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To: Sacajaweau; Truth29

17 posted on 07/12/2014 7:30:52 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: Mount Athos

Somebody “repaired” 2 or 3 of those. You kinda have to give allowance for the preservationist’s sense of aesthetics.


18 posted on 07/12/2014 7:35:42 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: Renfield; Mount Athos
I bet $10 that the guys who owned one of these things -- -- would rub them with their thumbs for "good luck".
19 posted on 07/12/2014 7:44:21 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: bravo whiskey
See what Rev Manning has to say, you better never say it, but he lays it out, this man has more guts than one man could have.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AspYhwB8THU

20 posted on 07/12/2014 7:47:00 AM PDT by PoloSec ( Believe the Gospel: how that Christ died for our sins, was buried and rose again)
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To: Renfield
Dr. Steven Collins is excavating what he believes is Sodom and Gamorrah in Jordan right now (just outside the Dead Sea). They are finding what they believe to be Minoan artifacts.

The Minoans, like sodom and Gamorah, practiced paderastria. History says that the Minoans were destroyed by a cataclysmic volcanic event, similar to Sodom and Gamorah.
21 posted on 07/12/2014 8:01:19 AM PDT by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: Renfield

All I know about the Minoans is that their women went around bare-breasted. Now, that’s civilized!


22 posted on 07/12/2014 8:03:42 AM PDT by ought-six ( Multiculturalism is national suicide, and political correctness is the cyanide capsule.)
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To: BenLurkin

Eurieka! Amazing resemblance!


23 posted on 07/12/2014 8:11:25 AM PDT by Jan_Sobieski (Sanctification)
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To: Daveinyork

“The Baltic Origins of Homer’s Epic Tales” Felice Vinci


24 posted on 07/12/2014 8:14:45 AM PDT by Yollopoliuhqui
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To: BenLurkin

Actually the Minoans are descendants of Noah, hence the name” Mi-Noah, referring to the fact that everything aboard the Ark came aboard in twos, two snakes, two breasts etc., resulting in the memorial statuette thus displayed. I refuse to comment on her Cat On a Hat, tho.


25 posted on 07/12/2014 8:23:05 AM PDT by bunkerhill7 ("The Second Amendment has no limits n firepower"-NY State Senator Kathleen A. Marchione.")
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To: Renfield

I think the Minoans came from Europe but it really doesn’t matter. North Africans were also Caucasian.

Crete has always fascinated me because no one really knows much about them from ancient times. The early Greeks clearly had Crete as dominating them for a long time then around the time of Agamemnon, the Mainland Greeks began to dominate the Aegean.


26 posted on 07/12/2014 8:25:44 AM PDT by yarddog (Romans 8: verses 38 and 39. "For I am persuaded".)
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To: Mount Athos

No. 4 reminds me of a school girl carrying her books to class . . . right down to the pony-tail! I think I’m in love.


27 posted on 07/12/2014 9:27:50 AM PDT by Oratam
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To: Sherman Logan
Presumably if the Minoans and the Mycenaeans had spoken the same language, they would have used the same script.

The Minoan language clearly was not Greek, but what it was is still unknown. One theory is that it is Luwian (a language related to Hittite, spoken in Anatolia), but it could be a pre-Indo-European language (Hittite and Luwian belonged to a branch of the Indo-European language family).

The language spoken on mainland Greece in the third millennium B.C., before the arrival of the "Greek speakers," was probably the same or related to Minoan, since similar elements are found in place names on Crete and on the mainland and in non-Greek "loan words" that the Greeks borrowed from the previous inhabitants (such as -ss- or -nth- in words, such as Knossos, Tylissos, Parnassos, kyparissa [cypress], glossa, thalassa, Corinth, terebinthos, erebinthos). There are similar names in Asia Minor such as Halikarnassos and Ephesos.

28 posted on 07/12/2014 12:48:36 PM PDT by Verginius Rufus
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To: Renfield; StayAt HomeMother; Ernest_at_the_Beach; decimon; 1010RD; 21twelve; 24Karet; ...
Thanks Renfield. I think a topic about this was posted a year or so ago, but anyway, here's a ping.
But the culture was lost until British archaeologist Sir Arthur Evans unearthed its remains on Crete in 1900, where he found vestiges of a civilisation he believed was formed by refugees from northern Egypt.
Evans was an autocratic jackass who managed to destroy the first batch of inscribed tablets excavated at Knossos, and refused to publish 99 percent during his lifetime, insisting that they could NOT be in Greek (Linear B is in Greek; Linear A is not), and struggled to find another language, any other language. He failed. As noted in Lost Languages: The Enigma Of The World's Undeciphered Scripts Evans actually found a Greek word in one of the texts, discussed it, and used it as an example of how false translations creep in. In the reconstruction of Knossos he reproduced wall art based on either his imagination or then-current hair styles and fashions from the UK.

29 posted on 07/13/2014 7:25:37 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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30 posted on 07/13/2014 7:47:11 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: 75thOVI; agrace; aimhigh; Alice in Wonderland; AndrewC; aragorn; aristotleman; Avoiding_Sulla; ...
One of *those* topics.

The current version may not quite match, but I nabbed this off a post in one of the Minoan topics linked above.
The Prehistoric Archaeology of the Aegean
Lesson 18: The Nature and Extent of
Neopalatial Minoan Influence
in the Aegean and Eastern Mediterranean Worlds
Aegean Connections With Egypt
In The Amarna Period (ca. 1360-1340 B.C.)

Trustees of Dartmouth College
revised Friday, March 18, 2000
During the reign of the heretical pharoah Akhenaten (= Amenhotep IV), the capital of Egypt was moved downstream from Thebes to the new city of Akhetaten (= modern Tell el-Amarna). This city was only occupied from ca. 1352-1338 B.C., and the large quantities of Mycenaean pottery found within it are therefore supplied with a fairly precise absolute date. The almost complete absence of Minoan pottery at Amarna is one indication of Mycenaean mercantile dominance within the Aegean at this time. More significant is the Mycenaean character of the settlements which have by this time replaced sites characterized until the end of the LM IB period (ca. 1500 B.C.) by Minoan cultural remains at Trianda on Rhodes, Ayia Irini on Keos, Phylakopi on Melos, and Miletus and Iasos in Asia Minor.

31 posted on 07/13/2014 7:55:24 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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The Secret of Crete
by Hans Georg Wunderlich, Richard Winston (Translator)
http://www.goodreads.com/book/show/6483103-the-secret-of-crete


32 posted on 07/13/2014 7:57:59 AM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Renfield

Uhhh. North Africans like Berbers, Ancient Egyptians and Ancient Libyans were Caucasoid. The Black African element came later with Muslim slave traders.


33 posted on 07/13/2014 9:24:26 AM PDT by ZULU ("Show me the man and I will find you the crime" - Lavrentiy Pavlovich Beria)
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To: Renfield
I think the problem lay with the headline writer. He/she/it believes that if someone is African then they are not Caucasion. As others have said the North Africans are/were Caucasion and in anthropology that is not in dispute.

Nobody on the science side said anything about race. They are just saying the DNA shows an affinity with ancient near easterners of the same population that gave rise to later populations of europeans. Some had believed the Minoans had come from the same population that gave rise to the Egyptian civilization.

Read the paper here: A European population in Minoan Bronze Age Crete

34 posted on 07/13/2014 1:24:39 PM PDT by Varda
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To: Varda

Martin Bernal is responsible — his “theory”, seen in “Black Athena”, is analogous to the Face on Mars being artificial.


35 posted on 07/13/2014 5:05:10 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: SunkenCiv
Minoan is probably related to Luvvian, going by the Glifts, there was a change in culture post 3000 BC.
36 posted on 07/16/2014 11:38:59 AM PDT by Little Bill (EVICT Queen Jean)
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To: Little Bill

I’ve been reading a book I bought used sometime in the past few years (probably, I didn’t check the receipt I’ve been using for a bookmark, it’s probably the date of purchase), regarding Mycenaean Greeks and their relationship to Homer (among other things). I’d started looking through the book piles for something else, found this, finally gave up on whatever else I was looking for.

Anyway, turns out that this was written in the 1930s, after Emil Forrer’s work on the Hattusas archive (Forrer found cuneiform records referring to the Achaens, and Alexander, another name for Paris in the Iliad), so, right on the cutting edge as it were. Evans had already done all the damage he was going to do, and Linear B hadn’t been cracked yet. Quite a good read so far, must have been still in use as a text book in the 1970s.


37 posted on 07/16/2014 3:14:14 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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Lemnian stele (from Lemnos)

http://tyrsenoi.blogspot.com/2013/07/why-tyrsenoi.html


38 posted on 07/16/2014 3:27:20 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: Varda

Thanks for that link!

http://www.nature.com/ncomms/journal/v4/n5/pdf/ncomms2871.pdf


39 posted on 07/31/2014 8:12:40 PM PDT by SunkenCiv (https://secure.freerepublic.com/donate/)
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To: BenLurkin

Close but no cigar - Bombastic Bobby isn’t an albino.


40 posted on 12/28/2014 1:52:14 PM PST by norton
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Colonizing Cretans
by David Keys
May/June 2004
Europe's oldest civilization, the Minoans of ancient Crete, were also the continent's first colonialists, according to investigations in Turkey and elsewhere. While archaeologists have long been aware of Minoan trading activity along the Anatolian coast, excavations at Miletus in southwest Turkey are revealing how 3,700 years ago they expanded to the Asian mainland to set up at least one permanent colony. The discoveries lend credence to an ancient Greek myth of a Minoan colony there... 95 percent of the thousands of pottery sherds from this period found at the site were either made nearby in the Minoan style or imported from Crete itself. Seven inscriptions in Linear A, the undeciphered language of the Minoans, have also been found, inscribed on locally made pottery... With Miletus recognized as a Minoan colony, preparations are now being made by an Anglo-Italian expedition to reinvestigate Iasos, another site in Turkey where substantial quantities of Minoan material has been found. A German expedition from Tübingen University has unearthed the remains of a Minoan fresco inside a seventeenth-century Minoan palace at Qatna, Syria, the fourth such fresco to be discovered in mainland Asia and Africa in recent years. Back in the early 1990s, a fortified palace at Tel el Dab'a in the Nile Delta yielded a Minoan fresco complete with a Cretan religious "bull leaping" scene, while in Tel Kabri, Israel, archaeologists found frescoes of a Cretan religious nature in a great ceremonial hall.

41 posted on 12/28/2014 2:39:18 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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Inscription in Carian and Greek
Issue A976 of 27 Dec. 1997
On 8/9 November 1997 the Swiss newspaper Neue Zurcher Zeitung reported that German and Turks archaeologists, who conducted excavations at the ancient site of Kaunos on Asia Minor coast just across the Greek island of Rhodes, unearthed an inscription in two scripts. The top part is inscribed in the Carian language and the same text is repeated in the lower part in classical Greek. The inscription is a resolution of the city of Kaunos to honor two Athenians, one of whom is Nikokles of Lycekleous a fairly know person and contemporary of Demosthenes. Thus, the stone was safely dated to the second half of the 4th c. BCE.

42 posted on 12/28/2014 2:40:33 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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from "Giving Goliath His Due: New Archaeological Light on the Philistines":
The Origins of the Philistines: The Plague on the Philistines
by Neal Bierling
The area around Mount Sipylus was probably part of Arzawa, with the Carians and Lycians to the south. The Greek geographer Strabo (late first century B.C. to early first century A.D.) quotes the Greek poet Kallinos, who claimed that Troy was colonized by Cretans. Smintheus may be a Cretan word, though it has also been identified as western Anatolian (Mysian) (Leaf 1923, 240; R. Miller 1939, 35; M. Wood 1986, 180). The nth sound of Smintheus, according to A. R. Burn, is characteristic of Cretan, Carian, and southern Aegean (1930, 89). Whether the movement of culture and language was from Crete to western Anatolia or vice versa cannot be determined, and places in both regions sharing similar names are common and widespread. For example, Mount Ida in the Troad shares its name with the sacred mountain in Crete.
It's been online for years, and appeared in print once before; that edition is gone, but there's a new edition in print with a new foreword.
Philistines: Giving Goliath His Due, Marco Polo Monographs, No. 7.
Philistines: Giving Goliath His Due
Marco Polo Monographs, No. 7.

by Neal Bierling
foreword by Joe E. Seger

43 posted on 12/28/2014 2:44:08 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: SunkenCiv
One of the things that has bothered me for many years is that something nasty proceeds migrations.

Look at the Dorian invasion of Greece, what prompted them to move South?

If you look at History you have to look at East to West population movements and what caused them. If I had the energy to look at Chinese history at the time we may get some clues.

44 posted on 12/28/2014 3:09:36 PM PST by Little Bill (EVICT Queen Jean)
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To: Little Bill

The possibility exists that some kind of natural disaster precipitated each one of the large migrations; otoh, there are those who claim that there never was a Dorian invasion, which is of course a little difficult to fathom. I’ve been reading some of the backlog of books around here, and the most recent two have been about classical and preclassical Greece. The one I’m on now has a language map of Greece showing the predominant dialects. The author (Finley) stumbles over the various problems introduced by the introduction of the (imaginary) Greek dark age. One howler was that the end of the bronze age may have been due to the sea peoples, but that copper production on Cyprus never slowed down right on through to classical times. Must be they mined it for centuries in the hope that bronze would make a comeback. ;’)


45 posted on 12/28/2014 3:24:55 PM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: SunkenCiv
I think that Herodotus pointed out that the Cretans spoke strange Greek which differed from the norm.

Then there were the ship lists from the Iliad which should be looked at.

46 posted on 12/28/2014 3:43:11 PM PST by Little Bill (EVICT Queen Jean)
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To: Little Bill
This is smack in the middle of three paragraphs about spoken languages, between his observations about Pelasgians and before the Caunians.
The Histories
by Herodotus
Book I -- Clio
tr by George Rawlinson
Now, of the above nations the Carians are a race who came into the mainland from the islands. In ancient times they were subjects of king Minos, and went by the name of Leleges, dwelling among the isles, and, so far as I have been able to push my inquiries, never liable to give tribute to any man. They served on board the ships of king Minos whenever he required; and thus, as he was a great conqueror and prospered in his wars, the Carians were in his day the most famous by far of all the nations of the earth. They likewise were the inventors of three things, the use of which was borrowed from them by the Greeks; they were the first to fasten crests on helmets and to put devices on shields, and they also invented handles for shields. In the earlier times shields were without handles, and their wearers managed them by the aid of a leathern thong, by which they were slung round the neck and left shoulder. Long after the time of Minos, the Carians were driven from the islands by the Ionians and Dorians, and so settled upon the mainland. The above is the account which the Cretans give of the Carians: the Carians themselves say very differently. They maintain that they are the aboriginal inhabitants of the part of the mainland where they now dwell, and never had any other name than that which they still bear; and in proof of this they show an ancient temple of Carian Jove in the country of the Mylasians, in which the Mysians and Lydians have the right of worshipping, as brother races to the Carians: for Lydus and Mysus, they say, were brothers of Car. These nations, therefore, have the aforesaid right; but such as are of a different race, even though they have come to use the Carian tongue, are excluded from this temple.



47 posted on 12/29/2014 12:42:14 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: Little Bill
Here's another anecdote about Carian; glad I did the search last night (':
The Histories
by Herodotus
Book VIII -- Urania
tr by George Rawlinson
One thing which the Thebans declare to have happened at this time is to me very surprising. Mys, the European, they say, after he had gone about to all the oracles, came at last to the sacred precinct of Apollo Ptous. The place itself bears the name of Ptoum; it is in the country of the Thebans, and is situated on the mountain side overlooking Lake Copais, only a very little way from the town called Acraephia. Here Mys arrived, and entered the temple, followed by three Theban citizens -- picked men whom the state had appointed to take down whatever answer the god might give. No sooner was he entered than the prophet delivered him an oracle, but in a foreign tongue; so that his Theban attendants were astonished, hearing a strange language when they expected Greek, and did not know what to do. Mys, however, the European, snatched from their hands the tablet which they had brought with them, and wrote down what the prophet uttered. The reply, he told them, was in the Carian dialect. After this, Mys departed and returned to Thessaly.

48 posted on 12/29/2014 12:45:24 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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To: SunkenCiv

You might find this interesting regarding the Carians and Luvvian. I got interesterested in Luvvian when I saw the similarity of the glyphs on the Phastos disk and Luvvian Glyphs.

http://www.academia.edu/498331/Sociolinguistics_of_the_Luvian_Language


49 posted on 12/31/2014 7:08:52 AM PST by Little Bill (EVICT Queen Jean)
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To: Little Bill

Thanks, I’ll log on there sometime later today.


50 posted on 12/31/2014 9:22:06 AM PST by SunkenCiv (Imagine an imaginary menagerie manager imagining managing an imaginary menagerie.)
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