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'This baby's death is on your conscience, Putin - damn you for centuries'
dailymail.co.uk ^ | July 18, 2014 | KIERAN CORCORAN and DARREN BOYLE and TOM MCTAGUE and STEPHANIE LINNING

Posted on 07/18/2014 3:08:57 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe

Ukraine launched an extraordinary attack on Vladimir Putin tonight by accusing the Russian president of having the blood of one of the infant victims of flight MH17 on his hands by publishing a harrowing picture of the dead baby.

Senior government advisor Anton Gerashchenko today stepped up the rhetorical attack on the Kremlin by posting the picture with a message to Mr Putin saying: 'This baby's death is on your conscience', before adding 'Damn you for centuries!' ....

Shocking new accounts of the carnage at the MH17 crash site have emerged, with eyewitnesses describing distressing scenes of naked bodies strewn across fields as well as countless possessions including children's books and playing cards, slippers, letters and old vinyl records.

Tonight it has emerged looters have descended on the distressing scene, stealing valuable goods from the 298 passengers and crew, who all died in the blast.

Anton Gerashchenko, an advisor to the Kiev government, said: 'I have received information that terrorist death-hunters were collecting not only cash and jewellery of the crashed Boeing dead passengers but also the credit cards of the victims.

The image of the dead infant was published as it emerged that at least 80 children were among the 298 killed when a passenger jet was shot out of the sky at 32,000ft by a surface-to-air missile yesterday.

Two Indonesians aged just three and five who were flying with their parents, as well as three Australian children headed home with their grandfather, numbered among the dead after Malaysia Airlines flight MH17 was shot down over rebel-held Ukraine yesterday. ....

Those who died on board included three Australian children, aged between eight and 12, who were travelling with their grandfather.

(Excerpt) Read more at dailymail.co.uk ...


TOPICS:
KEYWORDS: mh17
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1 posted on 07/18/2014 3:08:58 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

You have to have a conscience before something like this can be on it.

That leaves out Vladimir Putin.


2 posted on 07/18/2014 3:11:50 PM PDT by P-Marlowe (There can be no Victory without a fight and no battle without wounds)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Ras’Putin lives..


3 posted on 07/18/2014 3:13:25 PM PDT by NormsRevenge (Semper Fi - Revolution is a'brewin!!!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

So there’s already been an investigation?


4 posted on 07/18/2014 3:16:05 PM PDT by 2ndDivisionVet (The most dangerous man to any government is the man who is able to think things out for himself.)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

It was only a matter of time until the insurgents jumped the shark. I think this party is over, not even the Putin pushers on FR must see that the rebels are puppets.


5 posted on 07/18/2014 3:18:12 PM PDT by Mike Darancette (Do The Math)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

“Barack Obama accused Russia of supplying arms to the separatist rebels” ..............

POT, meet Kettle.


6 posted on 07/18/2014 3:20:28 PM PDT by fivecatsandadog (IMPEACH THE IMPERIAL P.O.S.. ARREST, CONVICT, INCARCERATE, DEPORT.)
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To: Mike Darancette

No, I put this possible tragedy squarely on the hands of a failed Anerican leadership. Putin is a cheap opportunist who gets away with murder because no one has the balls to stand up to him-


7 posted on 07/18/2014 3:22:13 PM PDT by atc23 (The Confederacy was the single greatest conservative resistance to federal authority ever)
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To: Jim Robinson

Ping.


8 posted on 07/18/2014 3:23:22 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Heart wrenching pictures, from The Daily Mail, who has the guts to put faces and actual lives to these souls. God bless them all, and special blessings for the young. Taking down this plane was an act of pure evil.


9 posted on 07/18/2014 3:24:13 PM PDT by Toespi
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Every war invariably had a silent instigating third party benefactor. It would serve us today to keep that fact in mind.


10 posted on 07/18/2014 3:24:39 PM PDT by drypowder
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To: fivecatsandadog

“POT, meet Kettle.”

Yea, It’s different when we did the same thing in Seria and for that matter Mexico. /s


11 posted on 07/18/2014 3:27:21 PM PDT by babygene ( .)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

This is the second reference to “naked victims” I’ve read. I can understand clothes being burnt off, but this seems like more. Just me?


12 posted on 07/18/2014 3:28:38 PM PDT by dware (3 prohibited topics in mixed company: politics, religion and operating systems...)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

13 posted on 07/18/2014 3:31:49 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper (World Cup 2014 Final: Germany 1 Argentina 0)
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To: babygene

The actions of BJ Bill Jefferson in Serbia (which were horrific, brutal, and reckless) can not be ascribed to the American people any more than we could ascribe the actions of these perpetrators to Russia at large.

This low-level civil war is a power struggle between the European Union and Moscow, and McLame/Obama involvement was unwise to begin with. Now the nation is in chaos, something like this was bound to happen, but the circumstances surrounding it are bizarre.

1) Why was this area not declared a no-fly zone by either the Ukrainian government themselves (who were conducting aerial operations in the region), or our own government, let alone the Europeans? As dumb as flying over Mosul or Syria.

2) Why did the pilot divert the flight into a warzone to avoid mild weather because he felt ‘uncomfortable’ (another idiot pilot from Malaysia Airlines)

3) Whoever manned this BUK System (if it is that), had to be very skilled, so who pulled the trigger?

The third point is the most puzzling. From what I have heard the BUK System interrogates transponders it picks up for flight information which it relays to the ground crew. Commerical jets give out different code than military jets, so why was the missile fired?
Presumable other commercial flights had flown over this region that day and in days prior, so why were they not shot down?
This is not a system that can be operated by a rookie, so if the separatists fired it, it would have to be either a Russian special forces operator or a defecting member of the Ukrainian military. Street thugs would not know where to start.

Somebody operating this system knew what they were doing, got the information relayed that it was a commercial jet, and chose to fire. But why? There is no motive here, and I can’t see how the ‘accident’ story fits unless people were drunk.

The event is tragic, especially since many many children seem to be among the dead. Its made even more distressing by the clownery of Obama giving 40n seconds to the incident before joking about Biden.


14 posted on 07/18/2014 3:41:11 PM PDT by Viennacon (Rebuke the Repuke!)
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To: Viennacon

“...unless people were drunk.”

Well, we are talking about Russians.


15 posted on 07/18/2014 3:44:53 PM PDT by vladimir998
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To: babygene
Yea, It’s different when we did the same thing in Syria and for that matter Mexico.

It appears that we have all forgotten about the Aegis incident of Feb 28, 1994 ...

USS Vincennes mistakenly shot down Iran Air Flight 655 Killing all aboard. Vincennes was a state of the art Aegis class cruiser with advanced tracking radar.

Regards,
GtG

16 posted on 07/18/2014 3:46:48 PM PDT by Gandalf_The_Gray (I live in my own little world, I like it 'cuz they know me here.)
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To: vladimir998

Very true


17 posted on 07/18/2014 3:48:10 PM PDT by Viennacon (Rebuke the Repuke!)
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To: Viennacon
The photo of the three Aussie children breaks the heart.
18 posted on 07/18/2014 3:50:39 PM PDT by mware
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To: Viennacon

Thank you for a refreshing insertion of sanity into a thread that inevitably will act like a flame to the more hysterical moths. Your third point is, indeed, one of the more intriguing mysteries here. And given how these things generally go (early reports are almost invariably false), I wonder how accurate our assumptions are on things like the altitude of the plane, and the capabilities of other AA systems that are strewn throughout Ukraine.

But the fact that a plane was flying over an active civil war/separatist movement is just mind-boggling. Going by the adage to never look for conspiracy where stupidity will suffice, I have to think it was just a monumentally poor decision.


19 posted on 07/18/2014 3:51:55 PM PDT by jjsheridan5 (Remember Mississippi -- leave the GOP plantation)
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To: dware

This is the second reference to “naked victims” I’ve read. I can understand clothes being burnt off, but this seems like more. Just me?

When people are thrown from their airplane into a 500 mph slipstream, often their clothes are ripped from their bodies.


20 posted on 07/18/2014 3:52:10 PM PDT by magellan
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To: dware

People have been blown out of their shoes, I suspect they can have their clothing blown off too.


21 posted on 07/18/2014 3:52:21 PM PDT by mware
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To: mware

I’m sure more tragic images are to come. This is the worst air disaster since 9/11 in my opinion. I don’t count the first Malaysian jet because for all we know, that’s still out there somewhere.


22 posted on 07/18/2014 3:52:27 PM PDT by Viennacon (Rebuke the Repuke!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe
Many vivid photos of the crash scene, including the heartbreaking photos of the children, at link, upper right.

Leni

23 posted on 07/18/2014 3:54:04 PM PDT by MinuteGal
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To: jjsheridan5

The other motivation I could see is if they thought the passenger jet was Ukrainian, in which case there is some motive there for shooting it out of the sky.

Now, I am still assuming the reports of the BUK usage are correct. If it was some other missile battery, then all bets are off. Could have been anything from spilled coke on the control panel to a 14 year old at the joystick.


24 posted on 07/18/2014 3:55:05 PM PDT by Viennacon (Rebuke the Repuke!)
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To: Viennacon
Have you heard anything about how they are dealing with the bodies?
25 posted on 07/18/2014 3:55:59 PM PDT by mware
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To: Viennacon

re question 2: Commercial pilots do not make the decision to “divert” by hundreds of miles. They are ordered to do so by ATC or they request clearance to do so fomr ATC.

re Questin 3: the BUK functions with some interface from early warning and air traffic radars. So the operators know a target is approaching, when, altitude etc

So - who was manning Ukraine’s national ATC and what was their role in directing and communicating with this aircraft presumably via unsecure network? Why did they route that jet over that area when so many commercial routes are well to the south?

Talking pieholes on MEDia keep spouting that Russia is solely responsible because this sector is “controlled” by separatists, the territory is not controlled by Ukraine. BUT - Ukraine certainly does control its national airspace for civil aviation.

The airspace above this area could have been declared by the govt of Ukraine as a no-fly zone and commercial traffic diverted to the south- so why didn’t they do this?

Was the government of Ukraine setting up a provocation (and sending this airliner into harms way), knowing they would reap a political windfall from an incident like this?

If so, there is blame and culpability to share


26 posted on 07/18/2014 3:56:38 PM PDT by silverleaf (Age takes a toll: Please have exact change)
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To: mware

No, just the pictures of them covered in sheets.


27 posted on 07/18/2014 3:57:02 PM PDT by Viennacon (Rebuke the Repuke!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

And those villagers didn’t waste anytime looting the site.


28 posted on 07/18/2014 3:57:43 PM PDT by SkyDancer (If you do not read the newspapers you are uninformed. If you do read the newspapers you are misinfo)
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To: magellan
When people are thrown from their airplane into a 500 mph slipstream, often their clothes are ripped from their bodies.

Interesting. I can see where that would be the case.

29 posted on 07/18/2014 3:57:53 PM PDT by dware (3 prohibited topics in mixed company: politics, religion and operating systems...)
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray

No, the Vincennes systems worked perfectly and the Navy shot down the Iranian Airbus on purpose because the Iranian pilot headed directly for them and ignored all communications and orders to alter course and they were in a war zone.

Maybe if the Iranian pilots hadn’t been too arrogant to respond to the US yankee infidels and had responded to communciations, they would have saved their aircraft and all those lives.


30 posted on 07/18/2014 4:00:55 PM PDT by silverleaf (Age takes a toll: Please have exact change)
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To: silverleaf

You make a good point. From what I had heard, the pilot had seen bad weather on the usual southern route, so he requested the diversion (which is beyond strange considering the destination).

But you are correct, air traffic control had to sign off on it, and that should be investigated since it is all recorded presumably.

As to a plot by Ukraine to divert planes to an area they might be shot down, that seems like a really stupid plan. They would have to be counting on the Russian separatist group being insane, because if BUK was used, it was an intentionl shooting down of a commercial jet undoubtedly. That is IF it was the BUK System.


31 posted on 07/18/2014 4:01:27 PM PDT by Viennacon (Rebuke the Repuke!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

Odd I haven’t seen them outraged at all the Ukrainian children they Ukrainian government has killed since this conflict started. Selective outrage?


32 posted on 07/18/2014 4:03:23 PM PDT by McGruff (If you can't make an intelligent comment don't expect a reply.)
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To: Viennacon

or the separatists would have to think this was an IL-76 headed their way, not a commercial airliner

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2696975/Putin-blames-Ukraine-loss-Flight-MH17-298-innocent-souls-DOESNT-deny-Russian-separatists-shot-missile-McCain-warns-Hell-pay.html


33 posted on 07/18/2014 4:08:58 PM PDT by silverleaf (Age takes a toll: Please have exact change)
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To: silverleaf

Well that one point is valid..the rebels do not have a civilian air traffic control so did not directed the flight over this area..
the air traffic is controlled by Ukraine..

but both Russian and Ukraine because the do have aircraft control would be aware in was an airline and Wan would either gain by knowing downing one?

So that point back to the Rebel because they would be the only ones that would not have an traffic control and so not know what was flying over and stupid enough to shoot at an unknown aircraft flying over.


34 posted on 07/18/2014 4:35:39 PM PDT by tophat9000 (An Eye for an Eye, a Word for a Word...nothing more)
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To: Viennacon
BUK Capability - Although it has it own Identification Friend or Foe (IFF) system, this is only able to establish whether the target being tracked is a friendly aircraft. It is the electronic equivalent of a sentry calling out "Who goes there?” If there is no reply, all you know is that it is not one of your own side's combat aircraft. It would not give you a warning that you were tracking an airliner.
35 posted on 07/18/2014 4:39:07 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: McGruff

Now would be a good time for Putin fanbois to stop infesting FR.


36 posted on 07/18/2014 4:46:16 PM PDT by Dagnabitt (Amnesty is Treason. Its agents are Traitors.)
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To: Dagnabitt

I don’t think anybody really wants Putin.

But as an alternative to the potential Lizzie Warren v. NJFatboy matchup in 2016, he’s an appealing write-in candidate.


37 posted on 07/18/2014 4:48:33 PM PDT by nascarnation (Toxic Baraq Syndrome: hopefully infecting a Dem candidate near you)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

But a commercial aircraft would reply, would it not? They communicate with the transponders aboard aircraft, so if the transponder was on, it would respond to such an interrogation. Encountering SAMs cannot be a strange occurrence to commerical aircraft, I would guess the plane was interrogated by other Ukrainian air defense systems as it passed over the country.


38 posted on 07/18/2014 4:55:05 PM PDT by Viennacon (Rebuke the Repuke!)
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To: NormsRevenge

Very good.


39 posted on 07/18/2014 4:55:59 PM PDT by windcliff
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To: Tailgunner Joe

If it did not have information on any commercial flights approaching, then that raises the question of why it fired on this particular flight. It cannot have been the first that passed over the area.


40 posted on 07/18/2014 4:58:46 PM PDT by Viennacon (Rebuke the Repuke!)
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To: Viennacon

You’re just assuming that. If they diverted from their usual flight path then they were somewhere they didn’t usually fly.


41 posted on 07/18/2014 5:09:30 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Viennacon

bfl


42 posted on 07/18/2014 6:06:55 PM PDT by AllAmericanGirl44
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To: Viennacon
The plane was just in the wrong place at the wrong time. Once the Russky terrorists got their hands on that weapon, it was only a matter of time until this happened. If it wasn't this flight, it would have been another. They had only acquired the BUK a few days ago and it was probably only moved into that particular position that very same morning.
43 posted on 07/18/2014 6:12:07 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Tailgunner Joe

So, is it confirmed this BUK was stolen from the Ukrainian military?


44 posted on 07/18/2014 6:16:06 PM PDT by Viennacon (Rebuke the Repuke!)
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To: Viennacon
The conflict in Ukraine is not between the EU and Russia, it's between the USA and Russia. The EU is split into a pro-US camp led by the UK which includes Poland, the Baltics and the other Eastern European nations most threatened by Russia. The pro-Russia camp is led by Germany and France and includes those nations which oppose sanctions against Russia, such as the Socialist governments of Italy and Bulgaria.
45 posted on 07/18/2014 6:18:54 PM PDT by Tailgunner Joe
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To: Gandalf_The_Gray

Actually, Iran Air Flight 655 was shot down on July 3, 1988.


46 posted on 07/18/2014 7:23:04 PM PDT by july4thfreedomfoundation (I don't want to feel "safe." I want to feel FREE!)
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To: Tailgunner Joe

BTTT for the photos of the poor souls who lost their lives. Prayers up.


47 posted on 07/18/2014 7:32:05 PM PDT by P.O.E. (Pray for America)
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To: july4thfreedomfoundation

“Actually, Iran Air Flight 655 was shot down on July 3, 1988.”

And that December, Pan Am 103 was destroyed over Lockerbie. IMO, that was Iran’s revenge.


48 posted on 07/18/2014 8:39:43 PM PDT by Frank_2001
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To: jjsheridan5
Going by the adage to never look for conspiracy where stupidity will suffice, I have to think it was just a monumentally poor decision.

Why would any competent leader place or leave incompetents in charge of the use of missiles capable of bringing down commercial jets? How reckless can one get?

It amazes me that there are folks here in this country who actually admire Putin. The guy is an incompetent thug. Following more than a decade of his incompetent leadership, the Russian economy remains a pathetic joke. And, a year from now it will be even more anemic. What a great leader!

All these innocent people are now dead because Putin is a reckless, incompetent jerk. It sickens me to see Americans rising to his defense.

49 posted on 07/18/2014 9:35:17 PM PDT by Tau Food (Never give a sword to a man who can't dance.)
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To: Viennacon
By the way, I'm reading stories that Singapore Airlines Flight 333 (Copenhagen to Singapore) was one of the closest planes to the Malaysian Airlines Flight 17 at the time of the shoot down.

Just a few minutes' difference and we could have been talking a horrible tragedy with around 455 people dead, since SQ 333 is an Airbus A380-800, the world's largest operational airliner.

50 posted on 07/18/2014 9:38:12 PM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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