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leads rally after Eric Garner's apparent NYPD chokehold death
newsday ^ | 7-19-2014

Posted on 07/19/2014 9:51:10 AM PDT by Citizen Zed

The widow of a Staten Island man who died after a police officer apparently used an unauthorized chokehold on him collapsed in tears into the arms of the Rev. Al Sharpton during a rally Saturday morning at his Harlem headquarters.

Esaw Garner had to be ushered off the stage as Sharpton described how her husband, 43-year-old Eric Garner of Port Richmond, died Thursday following a confrontation with police after complaints that he was selling single untaxed cigarettes. Part of the confrontation was captured in video taken by a bystander.

(Excerpt) Read more at newsday.com ...


TOPICS: Chit/Chat
KEYWORDS: donutwatch
Untaxed cigarettes? Is Sharpton defending a Tea Party member?
1 posted on 07/19/2014 9:51:10 AM PDT by Citizen Zed
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To: Citizen Zed

Selling CIGARETTES? Taxed or not, deserving of the death penalty! < /sarc >


2 posted on 07/19/2014 9:55:11 AM PDT by JimRed (Excise the cancer before it kills us; feed & water the Tree of Liberty! TERM LIMITS NOW & FOREVER!)
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To: Citizen Zed

I’ll wager the guy did not die from the ‘choke hold,’ he likely died from a heart attack from exerting himself during the arrest. The ‘choke hold’ is actually very safe.


3 posted on 07/19/2014 10:11:02 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Cap'n Crunch

The problems I saw with the “choke hold” was that instead of creating a little space across the wind pipe caused by the crook in the arm inside the elbow, , the person applying the hold couldn’t or didn’t extend their arm all the way over to pressure the carotid on the far side, so their forearm crushed the wind pipe. Some people have died from this. One I remember with LAPD in the 1980s.

I had short arms and it’s something I was aware of the three times I actually applied the hold.

Our director banned it because of the problems in LA.


4 posted on 07/19/2014 10:16:40 AM PDT by morphing libertarian (Advanced technological development.)
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To: Cap'n Crunch; Alaska Wolf; TexasFreeper2009; DCBryan1; Slings and Arrows; Doomonyou; ...
I’ll wager the guy did not die from the ‘choke hold,’ he likely died from a heart attack from exerting himself during the arrest. The ‘choke hold’ is actually very safe.

JBT Ping list


5 posted on 07/19/2014 10:19:00 AM PDT by null and void (If Bill Clinton was the first black president, why isn't Barack Obama the first woman president?)
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To: Cap'n Crunch

People definitely used to die from it when it was used frequently.


6 posted on 07/19/2014 10:19:21 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: Citizen Zed

This proves cigarettes are bad for your health.


7 posted on 07/19/2014 10:19:58 AM PDT by longfellow (Bill Maher, the 21st hijacker.)
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To: morphing libertarian

The LAPD police chief said that black peoples throats don’t open as quickly as normal peoples.
That caused a real uproar among blacks and jokes among the Cops who started referring to their patrol cars as “ Blacks and Normals”.


8 posted on 07/19/2014 10:20:52 AM PDT by Yorlik803 ( Church/Caboose in 2016)
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To: Citizen Zed

A friend of mine who used to sell “lucies” out of her small coffee shop was fined. She was not put in a choke hold.


9 posted on 07/19/2014 10:23:12 AM PDT by miss marmelstein (Richard Lives Yet!)
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To: Yorlik803

I heard about the comment, but not the last line.

Thanx.


10 posted on 07/19/2014 10:25:18 AM PDT by morphing libertarian (Advanced technological development.)
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To: Citizen Zed
From Newsday =>

An ambulance was called and Garner went into cardiac arrest while he was being taken to Richmond University Medical Center, where he was later pronounced dead, Bratton said.

http://www.newsday.com/news/new-york/eric-garner-died-after- cops-use-chokehold-on-him-nypd-says-1.8837654

______________________________________________________________

Looks like he was unresponsive on the sidewalk before the medics got there. At the 1:36 mark, one of the witnesses can be heard saying that he was having a seizure. Bratton is on shaky ground with this claim.

11 posted on 07/19/2014 10:26:25 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Ken H

Post #11 refers to this you tube vid => https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pvATEjsf41g


12 posted on 07/19/2014 10:29:30 AM PDT by Ken H
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To: Citizen Zed

Never thought I’d be on the same side as Sharpton, but in this particular case I am. Cops seem to get off on using tasers... why didn’t they in this case?


13 posted on 07/19/2014 10:32:53 AM PDT by ScottinVA (If it doesn't include border security, it isn't "reform." It's called "amnesty.")
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To: Ken H

“An ambulance was called and Garner went into cardiac arrest while he was being taken to Richmond University Medical Center, where he was later pronounced dead, Bratton said.”

That’s Bratton’s story and he’s sticking to it.


14 posted on 07/19/2014 10:34:28 AM PDT by ScottinVA (If it doesn't include border security, it isn't "reform." It's called "amnesty.")
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To: ansel12

No, they did not die from being choked. They died from either exertion or drugs in their system or a combination of both.

I used the choke for nearly 30 years and never hurt anybody. The only person I saw hurt from a choke was from a cop who was not very good at it letting go of the guy he was choking after the guy was out. The guy fell over and hit his head on the floor and needed a few stitches.

When I was sent to a school to be a police instructor I did research on the “choke hold.” In the entire history of Olympic Judo, nobody had ever died from a strangulation technique. The choke is very prevalent in MMA, nobody has died to date from that either.

The Kansas City PD did an extensive search on this subject. They now teach what is commonly known at the ‘Lateral Vascular Neck Restraint.” No deaths that I am aware of.

Attributing deaths to the choke hold is another media lie.

In my nearly 30 years I saw countless people choked. Not one died. We did have 1 die from reaction to pepper spray and 1 by reaction to the Tazer.


15 posted on 07/19/2014 10:55:25 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: ScottinVA

I was issued a Tazer. The first 5 times I tried to use it it did not work. I even wrote in a police report that I had no confidence in it. I didn’t ‘get off’ on using it either, we were ordered to use it. Because of lawsuits the ‘next best thing’ is going to continue to be used by police forces to use the least force to make an arrest.


16 posted on 07/19/2014 10:58:42 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Cap'n Crunch
In my nearly 30 years I saw countless people choked. Not one died.

Los Angeles had 16 die in a 7 year period.

17 posted on 07/19/2014 11:13:20 AM PDT by ansel12
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To: morphing libertarian
what is your opinion of this demonstration of how to get out of a choke hold.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uzm6_szUkYk
18 posted on 07/19/2014 11:20:24 AM PDT by Kid Shelleen (Beat your plowshares into swords. Let the weak say I am strong)
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To: Cap'n Crunch

I don’t believe a word you say.

This choke hold killed many people in LA during the 80’s and was subsequently banned because of that and it’s probably banned in New York because of that.


19 posted on 07/19/2014 11:21:46 AM PDT by Usagi_yo
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To: Kid Shelleen

I have seen something similar. Lift the elbow, grab the fist, tuck the chin and try to move out. Without the arm lock at the end.

I believe there is not enough time spent on physical training, self defense and restraint. I kept trying to get an ongoing program start from more time at the academy and then twice a month on the job. Never enough money. I recommend to employees they attend some training off the job on their own dimes.

A little physical training can be dangerous.


20 posted on 07/19/2014 11:27:21 AM PDT by morphing libertarian (Advanced technological development.)
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To: morphing libertarian

They were on his back. Between that and his weight, he couldn’t inhale. That was probably what did it.

Either way, he was murdered.

If Bratton is pressured on this, prepare to hear him invoke 9/11.


21 posted on 07/19/2014 11:37:17 AM PDT by Forgotten Amendments (Peace On Earth! Purity of Essence! McCain/Ripper 2016)
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To: Forgotten Amendments

wasn’t addressing this incident just choke holds in general.

The problem in training is it’s half speed and everyone is standing up. The perp is primarily compliant.


22 posted on 07/19/2014 11:42:15 AM PDT by morphing libertarian (Advanced technological development.)
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To: ScottinVA

Never thought I’d be on the same side as Sharpton, but in this particular case I am. Cops seem to get off on using tasers... why didn’t they in this case?


Same here, I used to be friends with the police force and even helped them at times when I was a kid but saw so many things which changed my view.


23 posted on 07/19/2014 12:07:17 PM PDT by ravenwolf
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To: morphing libertarian
Thanks for your response. I believe everyone should know basic self defense but the problem is finding the correct instruction and making the personal commitment.
I also worry some people might get a false sense of security and will wind up getting in more trouble.
24 posted on 07/19/2014 12:10:41 PM PDT by Kid Shelleen (Beat your plowshares into swords. Let the weak say I am strong)
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To: Kid Shelleen

No problem.

I was academy administrator for the CYA when the director dumped the carotid without talking to anyone including the restraint instructors.

In the end, many decisions are political. We taught some subjects at the academy for PC and CYA reasons when we could have increased practice time for self-defense and restraint.


25 posted on 07/19/2014 12:13:46 PM PDT by morphing libertarian (Advanced technological development.)
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To: morphing libertarian

We fatties have a hard time being face down. An obese Down’s Syndrome kid died in Frederick, MD last year when off duty cops piled on him. Very similar. I’m guessing the “choke hold” is not the issue.


26 posted on 07/19/2014 12:18:55 PM PDT by Forgotten Amendments (Peace On Earth! Purity of Essence! McCain/Ripper 2016)
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To: Forgotten Amendments

We’ll know in 2017 or 2018, when the investigation is completed...


27 posted on 07/19/2014 2:24:48 PM PDT by Ken H
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To: null and void; Uncle Chip; DariusBane; sport; dragnet2

We have a name. Remember it, so we can track the investigation of this crime.

The NYPD Saturday identified Daniel Pantaleo as the officer who put Garner in the chokehold and said he had been placed on desk duty.


28 posted on 07/19/2014 9:41:12 PM PDT by FBD
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To: ansel12

What did they die from? Please don’t say ‘the choke hold’ without any other information. Ever hear of positional asphyxia? There is no way that 17 people died from the choke hold. Not possible.


29 posted on 07/20/2014 4:46:08 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Usagi_yo

I don’t care if you believe me or not. Remain ignorant or do your own research.


30 posted on 07/20/2014 4:47:09 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Cap'n Crunch

Chief Daryl Gates abandoned the choke hold after 16 deaths from 1975 to 1982.


31 posted on 07/20/2014 9:19:33 AM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: ansel12

The Bar-arm method is what he wanted discarded, the Police Commission set a moratorium on both methods but eventually allowed the modified carotid method to used if the rusk of serious injury or death justified the technique.


32 posted on 07/20/2014 9:24:25 AM PDT by ansel12 (LEGAL immigrants, 30 million 1980-2012, continues to remake the nation's electorate for democrats)
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To: Cap'n Crunch
Section 203-11 of the NYPD Patrol Guide is clear:


“Members of the New York City Police Department will not use choke holds. A choke hold shall include, but is not limited to, any pressure to the throat or windpipe, which may prevent or hinder breathing or reduce intake of air.”


http://pbs.twimg.com/media/Bs2xuuKCIAABh7S.jpg:medium

33 posted on 07/28/2014 9:30:14 AM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD

We have a similar policy. Placing an arm around the neck for control is not a choke hold. That’s why it says pressure to the throat or windpipe.

If the cop choked the guy out he’d be in trouble according to NYPD policy, and the policy of my department as well.

He didn’t choke the guy out and he did not die from being choked, he died from a heart attack. Which is my point, the man did not die from the choke.

I understand NYPD does not allow officers to have tasers. Maybe if they had tasers the guy would still be alive. Then again, maybe not.

Maybe the city of NY should learn what the choke really is and re-instate it. Then again that would require them to actually have some brains. The lateral vascular neck restraint is very safe and very effective.


34 posted on 07/28/2014 10:22:06 AM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Cap'n Crunch

While we disagree on this case, (Garners only crime was suspicion of selling untaxed cigarettes)
- I would like to compliment you on your civility in your responses. Thanks for your courtesy.

This is little more than arrest for revenue collection. Our founders revolted in part because of a 3% tax on imported items. Today, our government is imposing ridiculous taxes on cigarettes, among other things.
($4.35 per pack in NYC)
It’s no wonder there’s a black market on cigarettes.

Bottom line; Eric Garner was arrested, and ultimately killed, over *suspicion* of selling untaxed Indian reservation cigarettes. What a farce our supposedly *free* republic has become.

In Tax Fight, Tribes Make, and Sell, Cigarettes

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/02/23/nyregion/indian-tribes-make-own-cigarettes-to-avoid-ny-tax.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0


35 posted on 07/28/2014 10:40:57 AM PDT by FBD
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To: FBD

Your welcome for the courtesy. I completely agree with you about the tax and the pettiness of the ‘crime.’ I also believe the government is way too big for it’s britches and needs to be completely gutted.

Unfortunately for us, morons keep voting themselves into servitude. The cops are in the middle. If you don’t take action, you risk your job. If you do take action and something like this happens, you risk your job, your property and your freedom.

When I worked I would not enforce the seat belt law. In my opinion if people didn’t want to wear their seat belt that was their option.

In my opinion the moral decay in America has lead to the advancement of socialism and increasing tyranny. Liberal politicians are indirectly responsible for this guys death but they will not be put on trial.


36 posted on 07/28/2014 1:44:33 PM PDT by Cap'n Crunch
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To: Cap'n Crunch
You make some very good points, and now I understand your position better. I appreciate your position on seat belts, there's been times when I've neglected to buckle up. I'll pass a patrol car, and cringe, hoping I'm not going to get stopped, and then buckle I'll up. Not because I know it's a good idea, but because of fear of being stopped and ticketed.

My gripe has always been the initiation of force against non-violent crimes, particularly where two consenting adults are engaged in some sort of mutually agreed transaction, be it the sale of unpasteurized milk, sex, or some plant/products that are sin-taxed to be legal for commerce. These are areas of the law that should never allow the initiation of what often turns into deadly force, as in this case. (in my opinion of course).

If Garner was selling untaxed cigarettes ( there doesn't appear to be any evidence that he was at this time) then write him a warning/ civil citation, and move on. The story emerging, is that there had been a disturbance, and Garner had stepped in an stopped it. The agitators had moved on, leaving Garner there to answer to the police as to what had happened. Garner was known to two of the officers on scene, and it was at this point that they accused him of causing the disturbance. After the incident was when they brought up his past cigarette transactions. Panteleo has had a history of stretching the truth, so it sounds like CYA to me.

Regards

37 posted on 07/29/2014 9:27:22 AM PDT by FBD
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