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DEBATE: Is Spanking a Reasonable Use of Force? (Keith Ablow says “never”)
Fox News Insider ^ | Jul 22, 2014 10:44AM

Posted on 07/22/2014 1:48:55 PM PDT by Olog-hai

Nine out of 10 parents admit that spanking their children is sometimes appropriate. This week, a New York court ruled in favor of a father charged with child abuse, saying that it was a “reasonable use of force.”

On Fox and Friends this morning, psychiatrist Dr. Keith Ablow said it’s “never a good idea” to spank kids.

“The bottom line is it’s always the end of the discussion—hitting your kids. It’s never the beginning of a discussion. It teaches them nothing,” he said.

(Excerpt) Read more at foxnewsinsider.com ...


TOPICS: Society
KEYWORDS: discipline; drkeithablow; parenting; spanking
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1 posted on 07/22/2014 1:48:55 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

Try training your dog without the threat of spanking...


2 posted on 07/22/2014 1:50:35 PM PDT by tcrlaf (Q)
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To: Olog-hai

Is “never” a reasonable answer to the question?


3 posted on 07/22/2014 1:50:36 PM PDT by PapaNew (Freedom always wins the debate in the forum of ideas)
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To: Olog-hai
The bottom line is it’s always the end of the discussion—hitting your kids. It’s never the beginning of a discussion. It teaches them nothing,

So smack first and ask questions later?

4 posted on 07/22/2014 1:50:48 PM PDT by dragonblustar ( Psalm 103, Psalm 37:7, Ephesians 6:12)
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To: Olog-hai

I think this psychiatrist ablows.


5 posted on 07/22/2014 1:51:24 PM PDT by Constitution Day
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To: Olog-hai
"The bottom line is it’s always the end of the discussion"

I think that's the point.

6 posted on 07/22/2014 1:53:12 PM PDT by Straight Vermonter (Posting from deep behind the Maple Curtain)
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To: Straight Vermonter

Clever. Depending on the child, spanking may or may not be the best way to discipline him. I think that the father in this case (NY) was correct in applying corporal punishment. There are very few cases where it would be appropriate for a child to curse an adult.


7 posted on 07/22/2014 1:57:44 PM PDT by punknpuss
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To: Olog-hai
admit

gotta love the use of that word - as if they're admitting to a crime

8 posted on 07/22/2014 1:58:59 PM PDT by vbmoneyspender
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To: Olog-hai
Mom gave spanking that you pretended hurt.

Dad never gave spanking, he ripped his belt from his pants.

The sound alone put the fear of God in me.

That "conditioning' worked well on me.

9 posted on 07/22/2014 2:00:18 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Olog-hai

From my experience as a parent I know that children, being self-centered, are often quite capable of ignoring what they do not wish to abide. Likewise, I know there are times when there is no room for discussion, which suggests future violations will be followed by more discussion. There are times when a parent must establish that there will be no more discussion.
Perhaps the good doctor’s kids sprung forth as fully rational beings with a sense of responsibility and the rights of others, but I can assure him that is not always the case.


10 posted on 07/22/2014 2:04:45 PM PDT by Old North State
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To: TexasCajun

The worse thing you can do for a child his not disciplining them and not holding them responsible for their actions.


11 posted on 07/22/2014 2:05:34 PM PDT by riverrunner
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To: Olog-hai

And yet Dr. Ablow probably gets spanked nightly by his mistress.


12 posted on 07/22/2014 2:05:41 PM PDT by struggle
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To: Olog-hai

Depends on age - the older >5 years, denial is a lot better. Can’t have this or that and go look at the paint in the corner ... under 5 they only understand that mommy or daddy hurt me. The memory fades in about two seconds and they’ll go right back and do the same.


13 posted on 07/22/2014 2:06:12 PM PDT by SkyDancer (If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed)
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To: Olog-hai
“The bottom line is it’s always the end of the discussion—hitting your kids. It’s never the beginning of a discussion. It teaches them nothing,” he said.

Wrong. It's the end of the discussion, and it teaches them that stupidity hurts.

14 posted on 07/22/2014 2:06:34 PM PDT by NorthMountain
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To: Olog-hai

Sounds like he is from the “Dr. Spock School of messing children up by making them spoiled little brats”...


15 posted on 07/22/2014 2:07:06 PM PDT by GraceG (No, My Initials are not A.B.)
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To: Olog-hai

Quack.


16 posted on 07/22/2014 2:10:58 PM PDT by Crim (Palin / West '16)
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To: tcrlaf

I did. Got a two month old Border Collie - never had to discipline her ... just showed her and told her what I wanted and she did it ... of course treats helped.


17 posted on 07/22/2014 2:12:53 PM PDT by SkyDancer (If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed)
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To: Olog-hai

No.


18 posted on 07/22/2014 2:13:36 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: tcrlaf

I did. He trained magnificently.


19 posted on 07/22/2014 2:14:01 PM PDT by RIghtwardHo
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To: RIghtwardHo

No what?


20 posted on 07/22/2014 2:14:17 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: Olog-hai

But what gays do with behinds is okay.


21 posted on 07/22/2014 2:16:09 PM PDT by goodwithagun (My gun has killed fewer people than Ted Kennedy's car.)
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To: Olog-hai

Depends on whether both sex partners are into it I suppose.


22 posted on 07/22/2014 2:17:02 PM PDT by wildbill (If you check behind the shower curtain for a murderer, and find one... what's your plan?)
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To: SkyDancer

Swat on the bottom to get the kid’s attention at any age, even gently under two if the child is about to do something like run in the street or bite an electrical cord or bite another child. It punctuates the “no.” Having said that, Mr. Mercat and I bought and read a book on spanking before we actually used it in any sort of premeditated way. It wasn’t especially effective. I was spanked one time and I deserved it. My mother was the one who had to do it and she cried the whole time. It didn’t hurt. It was more the humiliation. I had tried to make my older brother fall the day he returned from being in the hospital for a week with a compound fracture. LOL. I need to apologize to him again some day.


23 posted on 07/22/2014 2:17:23 PM PDT by Mercat
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To: Mercat

Thing is using any thing other than your hand is amplifying the hitting power of the adult; secondly the size of an adult hand is so much larger than the butt of a child. The force could do internal damage (has been documented)plus the welt on the child’s bottom often leads to some serious bruising. Most times it’s about frustration on the part of the parent when the child keeps acting out as in public. Only time I ever got smacked was when I disrespected my dad once, just once.. And nope, I’m not a mom ....


24 posted on 07/22/2014 2:25:25 PM PDT by SkyDancer (If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed)
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To: Olog-hai; All
Kids (of all ages) will break rules to test actual consequences of breaking rules. And a little bit of humiliating pain is sometimes the only way to effectively communicate such limits. Proverbs 13:24 and 29:19 comes to mind.

And if there are no "stop signs" then “kids” will establish their own "laws."

25 posted on 07/22/2014 2:27:02 PM PDT by Amendment10
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To: SkyDancer

As long as they were healthy treats so Moochelle doesn’t call your dog fat.


26 posted on 07/22/2014 2:28:38 PM PDT by Resolute Conservative
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To: riverrunner

The phrase, “Just Wait Till Your Father Gets Home!” would let you know has serious the trouble.


27 posted on 07/22/2014 2:29:50 PM PDT by TexasCajun
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To: Olog-hai
“The bottom line is it’s always the end of the discussion—hitting your kids. It’s never the beginning of a discussion. It teaches them nothing,” he said.

Absolute unadulterated horse puckey.

I spanked my daughter exactly once. It was never needed after that. My divorced ex-wife spanked her regularly. To no end except exercise for her arm.

The difference ? When I did it, it hurt. No damage, no bruises, but the message was very clear. Discipline problems were simply non-existent.

28 posted on 07/22/2014 2:32:23 PM PDT by jimt (Fear is the darkroom where negatives are developed.)
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To: Olog-hai

There’s spanking and then there’s beating. A little spanking once in awhile with an open hand gets a kids attention. I would say that from personal experience it teaches you to listen to what Mom and Dad tell you. Nothing like a couple of quick swats to get rid of the cobwebs. :-)


29 posted on 07/22/2014 2:43:59 PM PDT by Georgia Girl 2 (The only purpose o f a pistol is to fight your way back to the rifle you should never have dropped.)
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To: TexasCajun

Yes, my parents seldom spanked me but I KNEW they would, so the threat convinced me that there were consequences for bad behavior. “ Spare the rod and spoil the child” is ever so true.


30 posted on 07/22/2014 2:45:08 PM PDT by NotTallTex
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To: Olog-hai

A good parent learns it is important to establish boundaries for the safety of the child and for their own sense of security. Parents have many tools including verbal and physical methods of supplying consequences to children to enforce the boundaries.

Most parents want to avoid physical consequences and resort to them as a last resort. The ability to avoid physical consequence is related to the skills, imagination and the natural disposition of the child. The most skillful parents plan in advance for environment changes and the child’s maturity.

When its necessary, its necessary but it means the parent ought to review the situation to avoid having to use physical punishment.

That said, a swat on a diapered childs bottom is not abuse by any stretch.


31 posted on 07/22/2014 3:02:09 PM PDT by Raycpa
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To: Resolute Conservative

Rosie only got “healthy” treats; One company who makes a product called “Beggar Biscuits and something called “horse cookies” which is a molasses/dried apple/oats - it’s hard and a good teeth cleaner. As for regular food only lamb and rice based called Nutra-Nuggets, has other stuff for health in it.


32 posted on 07/22/2014 3:07:55 PM PDT by SkyDancer (If you don't read the newspaper you are uninformed. If you do read the newspaper you are misinformed)
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To: Olog-hai
“The bottom line is it’s always the end of the discussion—hitting your kids. It’s never the beginning of a discussion. It teaches them nothing,”

Aside from the obvious pun on "bottom" line, this is pure po-mo psych feces. Yes, it's the "end of the discussion." Some discussions should never start, and the sooner they're ended, the better. I don't have to "discuss" anything with my children; they're not my peers or my equals. I'm their parent. Period.

And it most definitely teaches them something. Specifically, it teaches them that when Dad says "Sit down and shut up!" they had better sit down and shut up or force will prevail. And if that teaches them to respect force, then so be it. As they get older, they can (respectfully) disagree and voice their side of the debate. But until then, I will not argue with a 5-year-old.

And I will punctuate that principle with a swat on the butt when necessary.

33 posted on 07/22/2014 3:19:50 PM PDT by IronJack
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To: Olog-hai

My parents never spanked us, beat the crap out of us, Hell yeah.


34 posted on 07/22/2014 3:26:19 PM PDT by longfellow (Bill Maher, the 21st hijacker.)
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To: Olog-hai
More Dr. Spocks working to F'up more generations of parents and children.
35 posted on 07/22/2014 3:45:13 PM PDT by Mastador1 (I'll take a bad dog over a good politician any day!)
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To: Mastador1

Well, at least the late mayor of Elizabeth NJ, James T. Kirk, can’t be blamed directly in the same capacity.


36 posted on 07/22/2014 3:57:07 PM PDT by Olog-hai
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To: riverrunner
The worse thing you can do for a child his not disciplining them and not holding them responsible for their actions.

This is the essence of liberalism - no one is responsible. Shrinks know undisciplined kids grow up to need psychiatric care. In my liberal town, there are no vacancies for counseling, they are all booked up.

37 posted on 07/22/2014 4:01:05 PM PDT by aimhigh (1 John 3:23)
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To: riverrunner
The worse thing you can do for a child his not disciplining them and not holding them responsible for their actions.

This is the essence of liberalism - no one is responsible. Shrinks know undisciplined kids grow up to need psychiatric care. In my liberal town, there are no vacancies for counseling, they are all booked up.

38 posted on 07/22/2014 4:01:06 PM PDT by aimhigh (1 John 3:23)
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To: Mercat
Swat on the bottom to get the kid’s attention at any age, even gently under two if the child is about to do something like run in the street or bite an electrical cord or bite another child.

I agree. Children under two don't always listen to explanations. They will run right into traffic. So, sometimes a stern expression and a quick swat on the diaper followed with "NO!" is necessary to keep a child from running into the street or running away at the store. Otherwise, I never believed in spanking.

OTOH, there are parents who won't lay a finger on their children. They just let their kids bully other kids, backtalk other parents, etc. You know, sometimes it's necessary to pull one's child off another child, or get in the middle of a fight to break it up, or take one's child by the arm and yell to make him stop doing something bad, or forcibly make him go to the corner when he's done something wrong, etc. But, some parents won't touch their kids at all.

39 posted on 07/22/2014 4:39:29 PM PDT by Tired of Taxes
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To: punknpuss

Doesn’t do much for a strong-willed child. Me? All you had to do was look at me mean.


40 posted on 07/22/2014 4:58:43 PM PDT by huldah1776
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To: TexasCajun

Mom use a wooden spoon,hair brush or anything she had in her hand. Now the “old Man” used a belt!!!


41 posted on 07/22/2014 5:03:26 PM PDT by markman46 (engage brain before using keyboard!!!)
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To: huldah1776

Dodson’s book on parenting the strong willed child.


42 posted on 07/22/2014 5:18:47 PM PDT by Mercat
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To: Mercat

Had it. He’s a Marine now. :)


43 posted on 07/22/2014 5:19:55 PM PDT by huldah1776
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To: Olog-hai
It’s never the beginning of a discussion.

Really, honey child?

It seems to me that with my parents the punishment was the "talk" that came afterwords. Gah! I absolutely HATED the "talk". Who, what, where, when and why with a topping of "we are disappointed in you".

44 posted on 07/22/2014 5:25:49 PM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: huldah1776

LOL, mine is a professional banjo player. Go figure.


45 posted on 07/22/2014 5:31:51 PM PDT by Mercat
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To: Mercat

I bet his dominatrix spanks him often.


46 posted on 07/22/2014 6:01:56 PM PDT by hal ogen (First Amendment or Reeducation Camp?)
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To: Olog-hai

“Nine out of 10 parents ADMIT that spanking their children is sometimes appropriate.”

ADMIT?? You ADMIT to a crime. How about the word AGREE??

It doesn’t take long to figure out what kind of reporter we’re dealing with here.


47 posted on 07/22/2014 6:09:17 PM PDT by BobL
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To: dragonblustar

“So smack first and ask questions later?”

Worked GREAT with my kids.


48 posted on 07/22/2014 6:20:46 PM PDT by BobL
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To: Olog-hai

A couple of the blacks that I work with (in a professional job, requiring serious education) come from very poor backgrounds.

They both told me that they had a lot more to deal with than having their I-Phone taken away for a week when they acted up (or got bad grades). No different for their kids either...and those kids will do just fine when they grow up.


49 posted on 07/22/2014 6:22:33 PM PDT by BobL
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To: aimhigh

“Shrinks know undisciplined kids grow up to need psychiatric care.”

You may be on to something there. That is the ONLY WAY I can see how a group of people that make their living studying and (supposedly) understanding this stuff can conclude that spanking doesn’t work.


50 posted on 07/22/2014 6:30:50 PM PDT by BobL
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