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Marlins fume after new home-plate collision rule helps Reds get a win
yahoo sports ^ | 8-1-14 | Mike Oz

Posted on 08/01/2014 6:09:08 AM PDT by FlJoePa

From manager Mike Redmond after the game:

"To lose a ballgame tonight on that play is a joke. It's an absolute joke. I don't think anybody who plays this game should feel good about winning that game. And I would say that if had been reversed. That guy was out by 15 feet. It was a great baseball play. G threw a strike to Matty. He was out by 15 feet. He didn't slide because he couldn't slide because he was out by so far. And yet those guys in New York decided the outcome of that game ...

"No doubt we have some grinders out there in this clubhouse. To look at them in the face and say we lost the game on a technicality is [B.S.]. Absolutely [B.S.]. I'm so [upset]. Like I said I played this game for so long. I've given this game everything I've had as a player and a manager. What a joke. What a [freaking] joke. That's ridiculous."

(Excerpt) Read more at sports.yahoo.com ...


TOPICS: Sports
KEYWORDS: baseball; mlb
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Video at site will blow you away - the fact that the runner was called safe and continued the inning.

Just a giant FAIL for MLB. Stupid rule all centered around a sissy catcher that got hurt a few years ago.

Fix it. Now!

1 posted on 08/01/2014 6:09:08 AM PDT by FlJoePa
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To: FlJoePa

This happened earlier this month when a Texas Ranger’s catcher crossed from foul to fair just inf front of the plate, caught the ball and swiped the runner out. They called the rule because I guess he went across the foul line. All BS.


2 posted on 08/01/2014 6:16:05 AM PDT by mfish13 (Elections have Consequences.)
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To: FlJoePa

http://www.johnspeedie.com/healy/opinion.wav


3 posted on 08/01/2014 6:17:46 AM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: FlJoePa
Just a giant FAIL for MLB. Stupid rule all centered around a sissy catcher that got hurt a few years ago.

It was more than on single minor injury and Alex Avila is still the toughest catcher in the game.
4 posted on 08/01/2014 6:17:47 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: cripplecreek

It’s called the “Buster Posey” rule for a reason.


5 posted on 08/01/2014 6:20:05 AM PDT by FlJoePa
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To: FlJoePa

I don’t think there’s any dispute whatsoever. the runner had no place to slide.

On the other hand, not sure what the catcher could do? Catch the ball up field then come back?

Absolutely rediculous rule, but no doubt the runner is safe because the catcher did not allow a clear path to the runner.


6 posted on 08/01/2014 6:22:08 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: BenLurkin

Check out the video. Austin Jackson was traded in the middle of the 7th inning yesterday. Yanked right off the field then and there.

http://www.latimes.com/sports/sportsnow/la-sp-sn-tigers-fans-austin-jackson-standing-ovation-trade-20140731-htmlstory.html


7 posted on 08/01/2014 6:24:27 AM PDT by cripplecreek (Remember the River Raisin.)
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To: nikos1121

When the runner is out by 15 feet, there isn’t much reason for leaving a “path to the runner”.


8 posted on 08/01/2014 6:28:27 AM PDT by FlJoePa
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To: FlJoePa

Diamondbacks got bit by this dumbass rule earlier this week too. It’s stupid. MLB needs to dump this one.


9 posted on 08/01/2014 6:32:22 AM PDT by FlingWingFlyer (America is not a refugee camp! It is my home!!!)
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To: FlJoePa

True, and I see it the umpires agreed. The guy was so out that he didn’t try to slide, but then again he could have purposely rehearsed that.


10 posted on 08/01/2014 6:33:25 AM PDT by nikos1121
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To: FlJoePa
The only problem is that home-plate collisions are NOT allowed in high school and NCAA college baseball and is often frowned upon in the minor leagues. MLB should have banned home plate collisions after what happened to Ray Fosse at the 1970 MLB All-Star Game.
11 posted on 08/01/2014 6:43:55 AM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: nikos1121

Ironic because at a 11-12 yr olds game this summer the kid crossed home plate standing up, he had the throw beat by a mile, and he got thrown out of the game for NOT sliding.


12 posted on 08/01/2014 6:47:57 AM PDT by heylady
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To: RayChuang88

OK...then mandate feet first sliding.

Ironically, in the Cousins/Posey collision of 2011, it would be Posey that would have been in violation of the current rule.

The onus needs to be on the base runner, not the catcher. The catcher is in a defensive position (trying to secure the ball and tag the runner).


13 posted on 08/01/2014 6:48:06 AM PDT by FlJoePa
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To: FlJoePa

http://nesn.com/2014/08/marlins-lose-on-home-plate-collision-review-mlb-to-look-over-rule-video/

more video and tweets from Redmond and MLB. looks like MLB will be reviewing


14 posted on 08/01/2014 6:49:26 AM PDT by sten (fighting tyranny never goes out of style)
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To: sten

Not much to review as the game is in the history books. The Marlins got to .500 then went out and traded some good prospects for a quality starter. This was their reward for trying to find their way to the playoffs.


15 posted on 08/01/2014 6:52:41 AM PDT by FlJoePa
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To: RayChuang88
Meh.

I miss the old days.


These modern guys would soil themselves if they had to face someone like Ty Cobb. He would've killed* to win a game.


*He filed his spikes until they were razor sharp

16 posted on 08/01/2014 7:00:39 AM PDT by Bratch
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To: FlJoePa
The onus needs to be on the base runner, not the catcher.

Yup. Nothing's stopping him from trying to get back to third base.
17 posted on 08/01/2014 7:00:42 AM PDT by Dr. Sivana ("If you're litigating against nuns, you've probably done something wrong."-Ted Cruz)
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To: nikos1121; All

“Absolutely (rediculous) rule, but no doubt the runner is safe because the catcher did not allow a clear path to the runner.”
Why isn’t that rule also applied to second and third bases, also?
I also have seen a first baseman standing with ball in hand tag the runner, in the runner’s path! This prevented the runner from having a clear path to the bag.
Another play that was not reviewable was when a Red’s Batter attempted to bunt and ball hit him when he was out of the Batter’s box. Should have been called out. First Base Umpire should have made call., plate umpire was blocked from seeing ball making contact. Play is not REVIEWABLE! Why not?
+++++++++++++++
Not the first time MLB F”D up, on Rule 7:13!
http://espn.go.com/mlb/story/_/id/11129670/mlb-adjusts-rule-home-plate-collisions-controversy


18 posted on 08/01/2014 7:00:46 AM PDT by GOYAKLA (Waiting for the Golden Screw to be removed from Obama's navel and his a$$ falls off!)
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To: nikos1121

“On the other hand, not sure what the catcher could do? Catch the ball up field then come back?”

I have never understood this rule too well. What does a first baseman do when the throw is into the runner up the line? I guess he can choose to stick his arm out into the runner and risk breaking it, or let it go and risk having it go into the seats. So if runs are so important and that 2 out single will drive in a run, why don’t you see first basemen setting up in front of the plate like catchers on infield dribblers where the play is at first?

Freegards


19 posted on 08/01/2014 7:05:03 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Ransomed

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/playoffs2004/news/story?id=1905510

Good read!

Freegards backatcha


20 posted on 08/01/2014 7:13:45 AM PDT by GOYAKLA (Waiting for the Golden Screw to be removed from Obama's navel and his a$$ falls off!)
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To: FlJoePa

This new rule needs to go, it makes no sense.

It has always been simple common sense:

runner must be entitled to the bag he is running to.

field chooses whether or not they want to block runner by standing between them and the bag.

the slide/collision is between two athletes with an assumed “gentlemen’s agreement” to play hard but not resort to dirty tactics that could seriously maime or injur.

baserunners know that they could use dirty tactics in sliding, that are very prone to causing injury, but that someday there may be retribution on them if they push it too hard.

men who push the limits will tend to get hit by pitches more, for example.

It has always all worked fine, the new rule needs to go.

It’s a completely idiotic rule, catcher can’t block the plate.

It’s hardly worth watching those plays this year, it’s like playing “tag” football.

It does not look professional, it looks like a bunch of weenies.

MLB should feel ashamed for contributing to ruining the game.


21 posted on 08/01/2014 7:15:43 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: FlJoePa

David Stern ruined basketball; Bud Selig ruined baseball and Roger Goodell is ruining football!


22 posted on 08/01/2014 7:20:09 AM PDT by Dr. Ursus
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To: RayChuang88

23 posted on 08/01/2014 7:21:30 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: Ransomed
Reds won=Good call. We are a nation of laws. The rule of law. Rules are rules...........

Rounding third and headed for home. (the late Joe Nuxhall)

24 posted on 08/01/2014 7:24:04 AM PDT by MPJackal ("From my cold dead hands.")
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To: GOYAKLA

Heh. The other good one is a-roid calling the ball as he was running the bases between 2nd and 3rd.

I guess my point is you see 1st basemen pull their arm back from contact in front of the runner a lot, but that option is never considered for catchers receiving throws to home.

FReegards


25 posted on 08/01/2014 7:25:00 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: FlJoePa; Bratch
You are so right. I'm not one of those NHL fans who goes to see a fight and a hockey game breaks out. But seriously! There is a huge difference between a catcher blocking the plate without a ball and one that happens to take a throw halfway down the thirdbase line. This "moral equivalence" crap is an outgrowth of PC culture and anyone who cannot see the difference is an idiot.

A friend's boy got suspended from high school for fighting back against a thug three times his size who initiated the fight. That was the rule, they told him. What the hell was the kid supposed to do? Curl up in the fetal position and take a beating?

26 posted on 08/01/2014 7:39:47 AM PDT by Vigilanteman (Obama: Fake black man. Fake Messiah. Fake American. How many fakes can you fit in one Zer0?)
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To: FlJoePa
Stupid rule all centered around a sissy catcher that got hurt a few years ago.
If you're referring to Buster Posey, you haven't a feckin' clue what you're talking about.He blocked the plate, he broke his leg. WTF do you want him to do?
27 posted on 08/01/2014 7:43:16 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: MPJackal

I’m glad the Reds won, but I don’t know if it was the right call. Also sounds like Marlins errors put them in a bad position.

“I could’ve made the play, short-hop myself by getting out of the way and coming back to tag him. But I’m not going to do that. You get him a lane as the play develops and then you see where the ball goes and you catch it and make a tag. That’s what I did. It’s disgusting to think that a game could be decided like that.”

—Jeff Mathis

If he could have done that and made the play like he said, then do it I guess. The ball beat the runner by a lot. Don’t give the umps a chance to rule on it this way. They are notoriously inconsistent with this nebulous rule. That said, I could easily see this happening to any catcher.

FReegards


28 posted on 08/01/2014 7:43:45 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: Ransomed; All

The White House, MLB and John Kerry have made a joint statement today and have agree to change rule 7:13!
The new rule 7:13BS will include a RED LINE 30” from Home Plate, on the Third Base to Home, baseline. If a runner reaches this RED LINE prior to the ball being in the Catchers glove, the runner will be called safe! During the play of any ball being thrown to the Catcher, he must remain at least(minimum ) 20 “ behind Home Plate. Any player(runner is coming from Second base and rounding third heading Home) can raise his hand and be given a “Ollie, Ollie, Oxen Free” free pass to Home Plate. /s, really?


29 posted on 08/01/2014 7:51:00 AM PDT by GOYAKLA (Waiting for the Golden Screw to be removed from Obama's navel and his a$$ falls off!)
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To: oh8eleven

I expected him to do exactly what he did - try to prevent the run from scoring. He got hurt and it sucked, but that happens.

My Dad PLAYED in MLB for the Giants, and I thought the bellyaching and crybabying that ensued (some from Posey himself) was dead wrong.

To take that one isolated incident, and center a new rule around it was a catastrophic mistake. We see this daily within our local/state/*&^&%#@^ gubbmints - and the results are predictable.


30 posted on 08/01/2014 7:52:34 AM PDT by FlJoePa
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To: PieterCasparzen

Look at post #16 to see how well the gentleman’s agreement worked. Ty Cobb is pictured making a flying, feet-first leap into the crotch of the catcher, wearing actual, sharpened spikes (not just “spikes”) on his feet. How do you retaliate adequately? Drive nails into a bat and smash Ty Cobb’s brains out all over the playing field?


31 posted on 08/01/2014 7:55:16 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dfwgator

That shouldn’t be allowed for sure. No effort to slide at all. He tackled the catcher.


32 posted on 08/01/2014 7:55:23 AM PDT by sigzero
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To: sigzero

And that was in the All-Star Game.


33 posted on 08/01/2014 7:56:37 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dangus
Meh, Eric Cantona did it to a fan.


34 posted on 08/01/2014 7:57:33 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dfwgator

That was a harder hit than I’ve seen in the NFL Pro Bowl in 10 years!


35 posted on 08/01/2014 7:58:50 AM PDT by FlJoePa
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To: dfwgator

... And was banned for life, worldwide.


36 posted on 08/01/2014 8:00:32 AM PDT by dangus
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To: dfwgator

That famous collision effectively shortened the career of Ray Fosse. That’s why MLB should have banned home plate collisions way back in the day.


37 posted on 08/01/2014 8:01:22 AM PDT by RayChuang88 (FairTax: America's economic cure)
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To: dfwgator

... And was banned for life, worldwide... and convicted and sentenced to jail and fined L200,000. (But he did eventually get the ban eased, of course.)


38 posted on 08/01/2014 8:02:15 AM PDT by dangus
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To: RayChuang88

as well as awarding Rose with a lifetime supply of FDS


39 posted on 08/01/2014 8:02:21 AM PDT by Hegewisch Dupa
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To: GOYAKLA

Just have all calls at the plate reviewed by a panel of liberal female college professors. They will home in on the party most responsible for any deplorable violence in an instant, modified by the race and ethnicity of the players involved of course.

Freegards


40 posted on 08/01/2014 8:02:47 AM PDT by Ransomed
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To: dangus

But it led to one of the greatest quotes of all time:

“When the seagulls follow the trawler, it’s because they think sardines will be thrown into the sea.”


41 posted on 08/01/2014 8:04:55 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: FlJoePa

Heck that would be a 15-yard penalty in the NFL now.


42 posted on 08/01/2014 8:06:20 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dangus
... And was banned for life, worldwide... and convicted and sentenced to jail and fined L200,000. (But he did eventually get the ban eased, of course.)

He also lost his place as captain of the French National Team.....but it paved the way for Zidane to take over leadership of the team, which in the end was a blessing in disguise.

43 posted on 08/01/2014 8:22:03 AM PDT by dfwgator
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To: dangus
How do you retaliate adequately? Drive nails into a bat and smash Ty Cobb’s brains out all over the playing field?

Just a bat to both kneecaps.

The problem is that there are players like Cobb who like hurting other people in the course of a game. And that is where these rules come from.

44 posted on 08/01/2014 8:23:51 AM PDT by Harmless Teddy Bear (Proud Infidel, Gun Nut, Religious Fanatic and Freedom Fiend)
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To: dangus
Look at post #16 to see how well the gentleman’s agreement worked. Ty Cobb is pictured making a flying, feet-first leap into the crotch of the catcher, wearing actual, sharpened spikes (not just “spikes”) on his feet. How do you retaliate adequately? Drive nails into a bat and smash Ty Cobb’s brains out all over the playing field?

Look at Cobb's actual position - he has jumped in the air, he is not in contact with the ground, he is no longer running. His body is nothing but a projectile at that point, because he is not a bird and can not change his direction by flapping his arms.

He does this, with spikes out front, to intimidate. But he leaves himself wide open for being tossed about 10 feet by a catcher who knew enough to stay low.

This catcher stupidly opted to simple stand their like a pincushion. In the face of the fearsome flying spikes, the only choices he could figure out where standing there like a brave moron and abandoning his post. The intimidation pressured him so he could not think of anything to do to counter the flying spikes, and the sportsmanship of the day prevented him from abandoning his post.

Ty Cobb's intimidation principle was simple: here I come, I'm comin' in spikes first, I'm getting to the bag if I have to slice you in half to do it. The implicit demand was for the fielder to get out of his way and let him have the base. And it all happens in a fraction of second, so Cobb succeeded where the catcher had no plan to counter Cobb's moves.

Skilled catchers and runners learn the mechanics of successful sliding and succesful countering of slides - and the all-important mechanics of protecting oneself from jerks who push the envelope solely to intimidate.

A key point is that the base is on the ground. So ultimately the runner needs to get to ground level to touch the bag. A skillful catcher will leave 1 "best" way to the bag for the runner, not completely block the basepath. Completely blocking the basepath - under the "real" "normal" rules - entitles the runner to collide with the catcher, since he's in the way, which greatly increases the likelihood of the catcher dropping the ball, which, as long as the runner touches the plate, allows the runner to be safe.

Of course faking is often used, like, in this case, the catcher could fake as Cobb is coming down the line like he's going to stand tall and block, luring Cobb to take to the air, then at the last second the catcher could get down on the ground and shove him from underneath as he flies through the air.

When the runner comes in feet first sliding low to the bag, even though the catcher can be hurt by the runner's spikes, the runner is extremely vulnerable to the catcher seriously hurting their legs by putting his weight on them, twisting them, getting his spikes into the runner's legs, etc. There certainly would be scenario where a smart catcher would allow a guy like Cobb to score a run but make sure to rip Cobb's calves to shreds with his spikes in the process, thereby trying to put him out of the game. Oops, in all that action, I guess I kinda stood on your calf and twisted, then fell on your leg and broke your leg or ripped tendons at the knee by crushing it with my other leg. Oh, and when I tagged you as your face ran into my glove, I guess my glove sort of broke your jaw, Mr. Cobb. Sorry about that. Walk it off.

Catching is no position for a man without a plan. But the best catchers are very, very difficult to get past if they get the ball in time.
45 posted on 08/01/2014 8:36:44 AM PDT by PieterCasparzen (We have to fix things ourselves)
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To: FlJoePa
I expected him to do exactly what he did - try to prevent the run from scoring.
Then why did you call him a sissy?
I don't agree with the new "leave a lane" rule, but I also don't think a catcher (or any player) has the right to block the plate w/o the ball.
I grew up in NYC area when Giants were still there. I still root for them.
46 posted on 08/01/2014 8:47:37 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven

Because (as I said) he did his share of crying to the media after the injury. For quite awhile, I might add.

I don’t think that sped up his rehab any, so what was the point? It wasn’t a dirty play. At all. He was in a bad position and got hurt. That’s all.

I don’t have anything against him, and I’ve always followed the Giants. I think he’s a good (but somewhat overrated) player.


47 posted on 08/01/2014 8:52:02 AM PDT by FlJoePa
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To: PieterCasparzen

I had an easy solution when I was a catcher. I simply would jump up and avoid Cobb’s “Flying Crotch Stab” and land on his legs or abdomen with my own cleats.


48 posted on 08/01/2014 9:02:58 AM PDT by Pox (Good Night. I expect more respect tomorrow.)
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To: FlJoePa
Because (as I said) he did his share of crying to the media after the injury.
That would make him a whiner, not a sissy.
Posey over-rated? LOL ... rookie of the year, MVP, league batting title, 2x all star, 2x world series rings, comeback player of the year, silver slugger, and more. All in about 4 years.
49 posted on 08/01/2014 9:13:18 AM PDT by oh8eleven (RVN '67-'68)
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To: oh8eleven

I said “somewhat” overrated.


50 posted on 08/01/2014 9:15:50 AM PDT by FlJoePa
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