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No apology: Japan deserved Enola Gay's visit
The Hook ^ | December 11, 2003 | Neil Steinberg

Posted on 08/06/2014 8:52:08 PM PDT by right-wing agnostic

There's a museum in Tokyo dedicated to Japan's ample history of warfare. But if you visit the plainly named Military Museum, you'll find no reference to the grotesque medical experiments the Japanese army conducted in World War II or the sex slaves it kidnapped.

(Excerpt) Read more at readthehook.com ...


TOPICS: History
KEYWORDS: atomicbomb; enolagay; hiroshima; nagasaki
Harry Truman really had no choice but to order the atomic bombs be dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. To invade Japan would have taken years and cost countless lives. The dropping of the atomic bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki undoubtedly saved tens of thousands of American lives and probably saved Japanese lives, too. Americans should not feel guilty that our leaders used the tools necessary to end the bloodiest war in human history. FYI, my paternal grandfather's first cousin survived Pearl Harbor so I think the Japanese got exactly what they deserved. Napoleon was correct: WAR IS HELL. Considering the alternative, anyone who blames the United States for the dropping of the atomic bombs on Japan is morally bankrupt./rwa
1 posted on 08/06/2014 8:52:09 PM PDT by right-wing agnostic
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To: right-wing agnostic

Obama already apologized on behalf of the United States.

Press here didn’t cover it.


2 posted on 08/06/2014 8:56:57 PM PDT by TigerClaws
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To: right-wing agnostic

Some people.push revisionist history, and tell us Japan was on the verge of surrender. Not sure of their sources in that. But even if true there was no way for us to have known that at the time.


3 posted on 08/06/2014 8:57:45 PM PDT by Dilbert San Diego (s)
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To: right-wing agnostic

Fewer and fewer people today have first hand knowledge that the japanese were little more than vicious bloodthirsty nazi’s with slanty eyes that deserved every fast neutron and gamma ray that came their way. My family was touched by it firsthand.


4 posted on 08/06/2014 8:58:20 PM PDT by SpaceBar
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To: SpaceBar

Agreed.


5 posted on 08/06/2014 9:00:29 PM PDT by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: right-wing agnostic

They asked for it — and they got it.


6 posted on 08/06/2014 9:01:30 PM PDT by BenLurkin (This is not a statement of fact. It is either opinion or satire; or both.)
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To: right-wing agnostic

It’s not even open to question

And I’m thankful that HST made the decision (although he realistically didn’t have a choice) My Dad likely would have been in that invasion force. Far better the Japanese than him.

Case closed.


7 posted on 08/06/2014 9:03:13 PM PDT by A_Former_Democrat (Get rid of "birthright citizenship" Out of room . . . no mas)
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To: right-wing agnostic

I have pictures of the mass graves found in Indonesia. My grandfather told me that you could smell the death and know the Japs had been there and worked the locals to death building their fortifications. Same thing in China. Everywhere they went, death followed in a way similar to the Nazis. The japs were xenophobic and looked down on other Asians, especially with the sweep of communism. It was a weak and pathetic system. The level of barbarism practiced by Japanese soldiers is rarely discussed, but I carry picture proof of it. Those poor souls left to die in the street, not even given burial rights. That alone is an unforgivable sin and shows that anyone not Japanese was lower than a dog.

I have this photo of a tank company rolling into town and you clearly see the bloated corpse of a local just laying in the street. My Grandfather pointed to it and told me this was almost every town the Americans came through. The cleanup of bodies was horrid work, dumping human meat that were once souls into pits because there wasn’t enough time or resources for proper burial.


8 posted on 08/06/2014 9:03:15 PM PDT by drunknsage
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To: right-wing agnostic

My father was in the Navy in the South Pacific. If Truman hadn’t dropped the bomb, I might not be here.


9 posted on 08/06/2014 9:05:26 PM PDT by BigEdLB (Now there ARE 1,000,000 regrets - but it may be too late.)
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To: right-wing agnostic
Two bombs ended it. Period.

Saved a lot of dead people (on both sides) and postwar BS.

10 posted on 08/06/2014 9:06:48 PM PDT by Smokin' Joe (How often God must weep at humans' folly. Stand fast. God knows what He is doing.)
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To: right-wing agnostic

By the time Pear Harbor came along, Japan had been at war for 10 years in China.

When they invaded Hong Kong and Singapore the troopers of the Japanese Imperial Army burst into hospitals and simply bayonetted patients right in their beds as they were being cared for.

After the Atomic Bombings in fact there was great celebration in much of Asia.

The American view of warfare in Asia at that general time starts on Dec. 7th and ends with Nagasaki. That is appropriate somehow but that view is skewed.

There are 100 wonderful things about Japan but accurate widespread teaching of Japan’s role in Asia is….so/so. There has been no process of reflection in Japan on her role, as took place in Germany and with things afoot in Asia again, well…such reflection would not now be constructive, probably.


11 posted on 08/06/2014 9:08:07 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: Dilbert San Diego

“and tell us Japan was on the verge of surrender.”

Yeah right. They were so close to surrender that they didn’t surrender after the Hiroshima bomb. We demanded unconditional surrender, they wouldn’t. The second bomb made them rethink


12 posted on 08/06/2014 9:09:13 PM PDT by Figment
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To: right-wing agnostic

Japan was a terrible enemy, and is still widely hated in Asia for her crimes of WWII.

My uncle survived the Bataan Death March, only to be taken to Japan to work as a slave in their mines. When repatriated, he looked like a Dachau survivor.

Funny to think how much Japan (and Germany) benefited from ‘The Allies’ winning the war: both countries are now thriving democracies. Where would their own people be today if they had won the war? Likely, both Jap and Nazi populations would have been living a somewhat ‘Soviet Era USSR’ type existence.


13 posted on 08/06/2014 9:10:03 PM PDT by InkStone (Omni Vivum Ex Surfboard)
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To: right-wing agnostic
 photo WWIIPacificForeignMassGrave_zpse04442fe.jpg
14 posted on 08/06/2014 9:17:30 PM PDT by drunknsage
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To: gaijin

Less than 1% of US teachers understand why Japan REALLY surrendered.

The Atomic bombings made a HUGE impression on the Japanese, but they were not the key reason:

The Churchill/FDR/Stalin meeting at Potsdam stipulated that after the defeat of Germany the USSR would make haste to assist the Brits and the US in the fall of Japan.

With Stalin’s grab of Eastern Europe becoming more and more obvious, the American side naturally wondered what a post-war Japan would look like: Germany itself and Korea had not yet been carved up but there was strong foreshadowing of events there:

If Stalin’s contributions to Japan’s fall were strong, Japan would clearly have to be subdivided.

How much? Less if her fall came sooner, and more if her fall involved Stalin more.

The Japanese made inquiries about whether or not a surrender to the USA could include a continuation of the Emperor system, and the answer was positive.

She surrendered and Japan remained whole —almost:

The only truly Japanese islands she lots are still lost to this day —to *Russia*, north of Hokkaido.

If Japan had been told clearly that the whole Imperial Family would be destroyed it is very likely we would have seen a North Japan/South Japan divide, just like we see in Korea to this day.

The bombs made a huge contribution to her defeat but there was some very important politics going on, behind the scenes.


15 posted on 08/06/2014 9:19:59 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: drunknsage

Who are the dead in this picture?


16 posted on 08/06/2014 9:20:21 PM PDT by EinNYC
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To: EinNYC

I’d say Japanese troopers.

Not our guys.


17 posted on 08/06/2014 9:24:03 PM PDT by gaijin
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To: InkStone

True. When you think of the Germans and Japanese, there is a common thread. A rabid ideology, combined with utterly ruthless cruelty. Nowadays, Germans and Japs are the nicest people you could ever meet. They make nice cars and electronics. They are both nearly crime free and basically pacifist to almost a fault.
The good solid ass whooping they both got is the common denominator. Flattened every town in Germany. Nuked and burned and starved Japan.

Now today, in modern times, is there a culture that is driven by a raid genocidal culture? Who craves world domination? Who exhibit utter inhuman ruthlessness?
I like to think that we missed a golden opportunity after 9/11. Mecca, Medina, and Islamabad should have been flattened with ICBMs without comment and every Saudi dollar findable should have been confiscated.

With short overwhelming nation conquering, making Islam illegal violence, we really could make those people nice. I know, “its a religion”,,yada yada,,. But we outlawed Nazi stuff after we conquered Germany. Besides, its not true anyway,,,,outlaw it.


18 posted on 08/06/2014 9:32:38 PM PDT by DesertRhino (I was standing with a rifle, waiting for soviet paratroopers, but communists just ran for office.)
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To: right-wing agnostic
RIP...

Theodore Van Kirk (February 27, 1921 – July 28, 2014)

19 posted on 08/06/2014 9:36:47 PM PDT by Berlin_Freeper
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To: Figment

Nope. The first one wasn’t enough for ‘em. Harry T. then gave the sneaky Japs one more chance to quit, (imm. following bomb number one), with his: ....”If they do not now accept our terms, they can expect a rain of ruin from the air the likes never before seen on this earth”....GREAT speech. Still no uncle so.........BOMBS OVER TOKYO!!!!! (Remember that old saying?) They than had enough. I can’t stand these limp dicks who whine and snivel every August that it was wrong to finish the Japs off with Fat Man and Little Boy. Bull Crap. They started the damn war, the Mighty USA finished it. Case Closed.


20 posted on 08/06/2014 10:03:42 PM PDT by bobby.223 (Retired up in the snowy mountains of the American Redoubt and it's a great life!)
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To: right-wing agnostic

Fk em


21 posted on 08/06/2014 10:22:28 PM PDT by Vendome (Don't take life so seriously-you won't live through it anyway-Enjoy Yourself ala Louis Prima)
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To: BigEdLB

After being bombed on New Years Day 1945 Europe(German “Operation Baseplate”)...My Dad survived to be loaded on a ship and sent towards the South Pacific...He had just exited through the Straits of Gibraltar when they got the news of the Atomic bombing of Japan...

I am a Baby Boomer that probably would not be here if not for the Manhattan Project and God’s Grace for our Country.
(I have read of hardened Combat Veterans breaking down in tears with the News of the Bomb...they were going to live...
after seeing so much death.)

They had bombs, bullets, beans...but needed the 17 year olds out of High School....(Dad’s youngest brother)
1,000,000 Americans would be dead or wounded in Japan...The war was planned to end in 1948.
Millions of Japanese would have been starved, gassed-Yes we were preparing to exterminate...The Bomb saved us both.

And Yes the Japanese were brutal beyond belief...Bush 41 was shot down near an Island where several Japanese officers were later executed for cannibalism after butchering captured American pilots(on the same raid as Bush 41).
Very few Japanese were punished for war crimes.
Many Pacific Theater Allied combatants were very upset about it.


22 posted on 08/06/2014 10:57:29 PM PDT by DavidLSpud ("Go and sin no more"-Rejoice always, pray continually...)
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To: right-wing agnostic
I visited the Atomic Bomb museum at Hiroshima. It is living proof that the Japanese are still in denial and an have, for the most part, avoided a deep nation soul-searching like the Germans did in the post-war world. They are VERY pacifist and democratic...today.
The museum basically details what happened TO THEM on that fine, clear August 6th morning. As if OUT OF THE BLUE the US devastated their city and they were just victims of that horrible blast and the aftermath of it.
I came away feeling that they presented themselves as victims and the most urgent supporters of a nuclear free world.
Why they were blasted and why they had to be destroyed was not detailed in the museum. A side note, thousands of leaflets were dropped over A-bomb target cities a few days before. I think they said:

Surrender or face utter destruction.

Like the Paleostinian Arabs in Gaza, they didn't budge and now they whine about casualties. Sorry, had to get that last one in...

23 posted on 08/06/2014 11:29:20 PM PDT by Netz
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To: right-wing agnostic
1 Harry Truman really had no choice but to order the atomic bombs be dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. ...

NewsMax, 8/05/2014, Hiroshima Anniversary: Rethinking That Day

The article above is worth reading. Some may consider it revisionist history. According to the author, many, many of our top WWII military leaders opposed the atomic bombing of Japan because (1) Japan was clearly defeated by mid-1945 and (2) they opposed the continued bombing of civilians. The author does not paint a good portrait of POTUS #33 HST.

24 posted on 08/07/2014 12:00:43 AM PDT by MacNaughton ("... something wicked this way comes." 1606, Macbeth, Act IV Scene i, by the "Bard")
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To: Dilbert San Diego

I’d like the revisionist historians (obviously you are NOT one) to explain to me this: If the Japs were on the verge of surrendering unconditionally before Truman dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, then why did it take them until August 14, 1945— five days AFTER THE SECOND BOMB WAS DROPPED on Nagasaki— to surrender? I hate these anti-American revisionist historians./rwa


25 posted on 08/07/2014 12:02:43 AM PDT by right-wing agnostic (The Democratic Party's symbol is an ass because ALL DEMOCRATS are @$$holes!)
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To: gaijin

[ There are 100 wonderful things about Japan but accurate widespread teaching of Japan’s role in Asia is….so/so. There has been no process of reflection in Japan on her role, as took place in Germany and with things afoot in Asia again, well…such reflection would not now be constructive, probably. ]

I wonder, if we had really forced Japan to repent like Germany would Japan have shifted into a multicultural cesspool of “white-guilt” like Germany is in today and would they now have a Muzzie problem like Germany has today?????

Japan today is still apologetically Xenophobic to a certain degree and that seems to be good thing in light of all this crazy immigration issues that are going on in Europe.


26 posted on 08/07/2014 12:06:42 AM PDT by GraceG (No, My Initials are not A.B.)
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To: DesertRhino

[ Now today, in modern times, is there a culture that is driven by a raid genocidal culture? Who craves world domination? Who exhibit utter inhuman ruthlessness?
I like to think that we missed a golden opportunity after 9/11. Mecca, Medina, and Islamabad should have been flattened with ICBMs without comment and every Saudi dollar findable should have been confiscated. ]

Why do you think that a certain number of pages are blacked out / redacted in the 9/11 report... It all has to do with the Saudis...


27 posted on 08/07/2014 12:09:41 AM PDT by GraceG (No, My Initials are not A.B.)
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To: DavidLSpud
22 ... And Yes the Japanese were brutal beyond belief ... Bush 41 was shot down near an Island where several Japanese officers were later executed for cannibalism after butchering captured American pilots(on the same raid as Bush 41). Very few Japanese were punished for war crimes. Many Pacific Theater Allied combatants were very upset about it.

Just finished reading James Bradley's 2003 book, Flyboys: A True Story of Courage. You may remember Bradley's father was 1 of the 6 Marines to raise the 2nd flag on Mt. Suribachi, Iwo Jima. It was a disturbing read on several levels. Yes, he described in detail the 6 U.S. Naval aviators who were captured on Chi Chi Jima, executed, and some partly canabalized. He also provided an accouting of the Japanese war crimes trials - most of which I had never heard before.

~5,700 Japanese were indicted for war crimes in tribunals scattered across the Pacific and East Asia. Of these, 920 were executed, 525 received life sentences, 2,944 were sentenced to more limited prison terms, 1,018 were acquitted, and 279 were never brought to trial.

Contrast that with the Wikipedia account of the Nazi war crime trials. The Allies tried 23 of the most important political and military leaders of the Third Reich at Nuremburg with 12 convicted and 10 executed (Martin Bormann was tried in absentia and Herman Goering committed suicide the night before his hanging). After the main Nuremburg trial, the Allies conducted 12 additional Nuremburg Military Tribunals in which 142 of the 185 defendants were found guilty of at least 1 of the charges. Twenty-four persons received death sentences, of which 11 were subsequently converted into life sentences; 20 were sentenced to life imprisonment, 98 were handed down sentences of varying lengths, and 35 were acquitted. Four defendants had to be removed from trials due to illness, and 4 more committed suicide during the trials. 22

28 posted on 08/07/2014 12:11:11 AM PDT by MacNaughton ("... something wicked this way comes." 1606, Macbeth, Act IV Scene i, by the "Bard")
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To: right-wing agnostic
1 Harry Truman really had no choice but to order the atomic bombs be dropped on Hiroshima and Nagasaki. ...

Discovered an interesting passage in James Bradley's 2003 book about American aviation in the Pacific theater during WWII, Flyboys: A True Story of Courage.

The United States Strategic Bombing Survey was a board of nearly 1,000 experts, about a third of whom were civilian, assembled to produce an impartial assessment of the effects of Anglo-American strategic bombing of Nazi Germany during the European theater of WWII. The Board was not associated with any branch of the military, it was established by the U.S. Secretary of War Henry L. Stimson, and chaired by a civilian, Franklin D'Olier. After publishing its report, the Survey then turned its attention to the efforts against Imperial Japan during the Pacific War, including a separate section on the recent use of the atomic bombs. It concluded with the following comments:

“It seems clear that, even without the atomic bombing attacks, air supremacy over Japan could have exerted sufficient pressure to bring about unconditional surrender and obviate the need for invasion.

Based on a detailed investigation of all the facts, and supported by the testimony of the surviving Japanese leaders involved, it is the Survey’s opinion that certainly prior to 31 December 1945, and in all probability prior to 1 November 1945, Japan would have surrendered even if the atomic bombs had not been dropped, even if Russia had not entered the war; and even if no invasion had been planned or contemplated.”

29 posted on 08/07/2014 12:17:23 AM PDT by MacNaughton ("... something wicked this way comes." 1606, Macbeth, Act IV Scene i, by the "Bard")
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To: MacNaughton

Thank you for posting the Newsmax article; I learned a lot I didn’t know from it. I had posted my previous comment before I read that article. I still think it is unfair for people to judge Harry Truman using information only known through hindsight. FYI, substantially more civilians were killed during the bombing of Dresden, Germany by Britain and the United States than were killed in either of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima or Nagasaki./rwa


30 posted on 08/07/2014 12:37:50 AM PDT by right-wing agnostic (The Democratic Party's symbol is an ass because ALL DEMOCRATS are @$$holes!)
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To: right-wing agnostic; Dilbert San Diego
25 I’d like the revisionist historians (obviously you are NOT one) to explain to me this: If the Japs were on the verge of surrendering unconditionally before Truman dropped the atomic bomb on Hiroshima, then why did it take them until August 14, 1945— five days AFTER THE SECOND BOMB WAS DROPPED on Nagasaki— to surrender? I hate these anti-American revisionist historians./rwa

Watched an interesting episode on the History Channel a few years back when it still produced history shows unlike today's wall-2-wall pawnbrokers. The episode dealt with the events in Japan and the USAAF XX Bomber Command between the nuking of Hiroshima and the surrender of Japan - which was not unconditional - the emperor was not charged with war crimes but he was clearly guilty of them. Gen. Curtis LeMay continued ordering incendiary bombing strikes of Japanese cities after the nuking of Nagasaki. It was during this period that a small group of Japanese army mid-level officers attempted a coup against the emperor because they learned that he was about to surrender. They failed and committed suicide.

The Japanese detested communism and the U.S.S.R. Uncle Joe had just invaded Manchuria and was rolling over Japanese forces there - many who were captured disappeared in the Soviet Gulag system in Siberia. And the Soviets had just seized most of the Kuril Islands north of Hokkaido Island. It seems the Japanese high command chose to dance with Uncle Sam instead of Uncle Joe.

31 posted on 08/07/2014 12:41:19 AM PDT by MacNaughton ("... something wicked this way comes." 1606, Macbeth, Act IV Scene i, by the "Bard")
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To: right-wing agnostic
30 ... FYI, substantially more civilians were killed during the bombing of Dresden, Germany by Britain and the United States than were killed in either of the atomic bombings of Hiroshima or Nagasaki./rwa

James Bradley mentioned that in Flyboys. He also went on to write that Gen. Curtis LeMay's XX Bomber Command caused even more death and destruction during 1945 with its incendiary bombing raids of Japanese cities. Bradley cited a quote by LeMay:

“If I had lost the war, I would have been tried as a war criminal.” quoted in Dark Sun: The Making of the Hydrogen Bomb, © 1995.

32 posted on 08/07/2014 12:54:06 AM PDT by MacNaughton ("... something wicked this way comes." 1606, Macbeth, Act IV Scene i, by the "Bard")
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To: right-wing agnostic

The fact that the Japanese won’t even admit their atrocities is plenty enough for me. They deserved what they got.


33 posted on 08/07/2014 2:38:26 AM PDT by caver (Obama: Home of the Whopper)
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To: right-wing agnostic

“Japan deserved Enola Gay’s visit”.
Just as Iran deserves one right NOW.


34 posted on 08/07/2014 3:21:25 AM PDT by Joe Boucher ((FUBO) obammy lied and lied and lied)
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To: Dilbert San Diego
Some people.push revisionist history, and tell us Japan was on the verge of surrender. Not sure of their sources in that. But even if true there was no way for us to have known that at the time.

The U.S. had broken Japanese diplomatic codes. Towards the end the Japanese were trying to get the Russians - who only made war on Japan in the closing days, and seized islands in Northern Japan which they still hold - to act as an intermediary with the United States, a role the Russians declined. The U.S. learned of these approaches through deciphered cables. The Japanese terms were continued Japanese occupation of Manchuria, and no occupation of Japan by foreign troops. Both of these terms were non-starters with the U.S. The Japanese were completely unrealistic in their appraisal of Western attitudes. The Allies demanded unconditional surrender almost to the end. In the event Truman agreed not to depose the Mikado, but other than that Japanese capitulation was complete.

Prior to Hiroshima, the Japanese cabinet was split on surrender, with the majority voting to hold out. After Nagasaki, not one vote had changed. What did change was that the Emperor took the unprecedented step of speaking during a cabinet meeting in order to announce that it was time to surrender. Even then, there was a last minute coup attempt by young army officers, suppressed by the commander of the Imperial bodyguards, who then went home and committed Hari-Kari.

Under conditions that actually obtained in August 1945, Hiroshima and Nagasaki were godsends for all, except the unfortunate inhabitants of those two cities.

35 posted on 08/07/2014 3:59:12 AM PDT by Lonesome in Massachussets (This is known as "bad luck". - Robert A. Heinlein)
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To: right-wing agnostic

“There’s a museum in Tokyo dedicated to Japan’s ample history of warfare. But if you visit the plainly named Military Museum, you’ll find no reference to the grotesque medical experiments the Japanese army conducted in World War II or the sex slaves it kidnapped.”

I doubt you’ll see displays as to how American Air Force POWs were treated too, by the Japs. I saw that display in Dayton at the Air Force Museum 30 years ago and I’m still dealing with it. To gave you a taste, it made the Germans look like a bunch of angels.


36 posted on 08/07/2014 4:14:20 AM PDT by BobL
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To: right-wing agnostic

If I encounter anyone wringing their hands over the use of the bombs, I tell them to go research Nanking and get back to me.


37 posted on 08/07/2014 4:22:51 AM PDT by william clark (Ecclesiastes 10:2)
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To: Dilbert San Diego

I’ve read some of that revisionist history, and I don’t believe it. The Japanese leaders, including the emperor, had to know by the fall of Iwo Jima and Okinawa that the war was hopeless. Yamamoto knew it before he was killed in 1943. They were hoping for a grand conflagration that would have killed millions of Japanese citizens and soldiers and probably over 100,000 thousand American servicemen. The bombs stopped all that.


38 posted on 08/07/2014 8:59:00 AM PDT by driftless2 (For long term happiness, learn how to play the accordion.)
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To: DavidLSpud

It is unfortunate that the Gen-X and younger seem to think of Truman as a Genocial evil, when he saved many lives. ‘Saint’ FDR would have dropped it if he had lived... I am no Dem, but in that instance those two were patriotic Americans.


39 posted on 08/07/2014 10:35:26 AM PDT by BigEdLB (Now there ARE 1,000,000 regrets - but it may be too late.)
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To: DesertRhino

re Your post 18

I don’t think I have ever seen that opinion stated so well.
I’m saving it to spread around (if you don’t mind).


40 posted on 08/07/2014 6:36:15 PM PDT by Dartman (CDN PM Stephen Harper may not be perfect, but we don't have to be ashamed or embarassed of him.)
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To: right-wing agnostic

Japan started the war. Having sowed the wind they have no right to complain when they reaped the whirlwind.


41 posted on 08/07/2014 6:39:26 PM PDT by DoodleDawg
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