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A former special-operations doctor explains why he would rather be shot with an AK-47 than an M4
Business Insider ^ | December 21, 2015 | Dan Pronk

Posted on 12/22/2015 6:54:03 AM PST by C19fan

Admittedly, I'd rather not be shot with either, but if I had to choose, I'd take a round from the AK-47 over the M4 any day of the week. To add a caveat to that statement, I'm talking from relatively close range here — say up to 150 to 200 meters. To understand why, it's important to first take a very basic look at the physics behind terminal ballistics.

In this case, consider the science of what happens when a penetrating missile enters a human body.

(Excerpt) Read more at businessinsider.com ...


TOPICS: History; Military/Veterans
KEYWORDS: banglist; rifles; weapons
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The macabre side of the AK v. AR debate. The properties of the 5.56 MM come close to violating the prohibition of using expanding bullets in warfare.
1 posted on 12/22/2015 6:54:03 AM PST by C19fan
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To: C19fan

Tumbling terror.


2 posted on 12/22/2015 6:55:28 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: C19fan

Any high velocity hunting round would be worse than the bullets from a “military grade” bullets as many military bullets are meant to incapacitate and create logistics logjam vs. outright killing someone.

Where as hunting rounds are meant to kill as quickly as possible to prevent animal suffering.


3 posted on 12/22/2015 6:56:38 AM PST by GraceG (Protect the Border from Illegal Aliens, Don't Protect Illegal Alien Boarders...)
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To: C19fan
The properties of the 5.56 MM come close to violating the prohibition of using expanding bullets in warfare.

Stupidity. War is war, and all is fair when trying to win.

4 posted on 12/22/2015 6:58:28 AM PST by Timber Rattler ("To hold a pen is to be at war." --Voltaire)
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To: C19fan

I really do not know about the physics, but I have seen several wounds from AK-47’s. They tear out large chunks with them because most of the energy goes into and stays with the body being hit.

I have not seen M-4 wounds, but M-16 wounds that did not hit something solid usually went out the other side pretty quickly.

Maybe hitting a bone or piece of metal changes all that, but the AK-47 wounds were “religious expletive” awful.


5 posted on 12/22/2015 7:00:30 AM PST by wbarmy (I chose to be a sheepdog once I saw what happens to the sheep.)
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To: C19fan

Interesting. Thanks.

L


6 posted on 12/22/2015 7:01:15 AM PST by Lurker (Violence is rarely the answer. But when it is it is the only answer.)
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To: C19fan

It ain’t like in the movies.


7 posted on 12/22/2015 7:02:05 AM PST by skeeter
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To: C19fan

does not explain how, if at all, the M4 round discussed is different from round available for commercial purchase.


8 posted on 12/22/2015 7:09:08 AM PST by School of Rational Thought
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To: C19fan

Though it certainly doesn’t conclusively win the debate, this guy did some great research. It has applied science, empirical observation, and qualitative theory. It’s a tough debate though. Both weapons have good reasons to choose one over the other and many of the reasons are a matter of life or death. I guess one should choose both.


9 posted on 12/22/2015 7:11:58 AM PST by demshateGod (The fool hath said in his heart, There is no God)
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To: C19fan

This is all nonsense. I’ve seen the old movies from the 1930’s and 1940’s, and a battle death is not very painful or bloody. All that happens is a person will clutch their chest and fall over. There is never any blood.


10 posted on 12/22/2015 7:17:15 AM PST by Lazamataz (It has gotten to the point where any report from standard news outlets must be fact-checked.)
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To: Gaffer

It was always my understanding that the slow rifling (1 to 12 I think) of the early M-16 and it’s prototypes would just barely stabilize the (then) 55 gr. bullet...thus giving it the propensity to tumble when striking an adversary. The trend has always been to faster rifling to stabilize heavier bullets and give better accuracy.


11 posted on 12/22/2015 7:20:59 AM PST by VR-21
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To: skeeter
It ain't like in the movies.

But TV and movies are where all liberals (especially politicians) get their vast knowledge of firearms. Like magazines that have to be thrown away when they run out. That why we have such enlightened gun laws.

12 posted on 12/22/2015 7:21:34 AM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s, you weren't really there....)
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To: C19fan

The vast majority of the complaints about the 5.56 round came from shooting them out of a weapon with a short 10” barrel this will significantly reduce the V1-V2 portion of the equation. The 5.56 fired out of a 16” barrel or longer is a nasty weapon.


13 posted on 12/22/2015 7:23:01 AM PST by BobinIL
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To: C19fan

I’m not squeamish, but I could “feel” those wounds......wow!

I was aware before I enlisted during Nam, that the .223 tumbled and did more damage, by design. But that shattered femur was telling.


14 posted on 12/22/2015 7:26:02 AM PST by G Larry (ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS impose SLAVE WAGES on LEGAL Immigrants.)
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To: School of Rational Thought

You can buy the same rounds used by the military at any big box store.


15 posted on 12/22/2015 7:26:31 AM PST by mad_as_he$$ ("It gets late early around here..." Yogi)
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To: C19fan

Regardless of one caliber’s (slight?) superiority over another, the key is a rifle that is sufficiently accurate to hit the enemy, and that is utterly reliable under harsh conditions.

If it won’t fire, caliber is worthless. That’s why the AK is so ubiquitous. Extreme reliability that takes no skill to maintain.


16 posted on 12/22/2015 7:26:43 AM PST by ChildOfThe60s (If you can remember the 60s, you weren't really there....)
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To: School of Rational Thought

no difference


17 posted on 12/22/2015 7:27:31 AM PST by G Larry (ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS impose SLAVE WAGES on LEGAL Immigrants.)
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To: C19fan

How about the AK-74? Nasty little round.


18 posted on 12/22/2015 7:29:03 AM PST by Jewbacca (The residents of Iroquois territory may not determine whether Jews may live in Jerusalem)
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To: VR-21

Yep...I have an early 1970s Colt SP1 with that slow rifling.


19 posted on 12/22/2015 7:29:42 AM PST by Gaffer
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To: C19fan; wbarmy

(Not directed at you)

This article ignores reality.

The 5.56mm is a medium distance varmint round. It over-penetrates and is illegal to use to hunt deer in many states because it is insufficient to bring down the animal in single shot. The 7.62x39mm and similar.30-30 are far more effective one-shot killers and used for deer and pigs.

This yawing/tumbling/magical BB effect is more associated with the 5.45x39mm from the AK74, which earned it the name “poison bullet.” Like the 5.56mm, the 5.45x39mm is designed to be lightweight and capable of hitting targets up to 500m-600m with a DMR.

The 5.56mm is facing increased scrutiny by our military because jihadists are taking several hits before staying down. The magical yawing is not doing much to stop them.


20 posted on 12/22/2015 7:32:59 AM PST by Azeem (There are four boxes to be used in the defense of liberty: soap, ballot, jury and ammo.)
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