Posted on 09/03/2018 7:52:45 AM PDT by Optimist
I do understand the point of a Convention of States. There are certainly things that have gone wrong constitutionally in this country.
It appears, however, that the issue is not the constitution, but rather ADHERENCE to the constitution. Although there are items that MIGHT be able to correct that problem (term limits? return to the original election of senators by state legislatures? just for example) the real issue is that the constitution is NOT followed by either those elected to serve and protect it nor those appointed to justify the laws based upon it.
I assume if we are taking this as a long term process, it may make sense, but just the passage of any amendments would likely take a very long time and the resulting course correction even longer.
If a goal is returning power back to the states, can we even trust the state legislative swamp to be better than the federal legislative swamp? I personally do not believe any State Legislature would turn out its own party's Senator (still a good ol' boy system). The swamp may change color but it's still a swamp.
In my opinion, a COS is only a good idea if you agree with the attendees. It’s kinda like a dictatorship is fine as long as you agree with the dictator’s plans.
There is no magic bullet to “fix” things. Term limits is the magic fix for many. But if the people are corrupt, it doesn’t matter.
Our Founding Fathers put together a well thought out system with many checks and balances. Time and resources are limited, Let’s use what we got instead of spending it on magic bullets.
For example, Trump has changed the regulation process. Current way is post it on the internets for comments and then do what you want. Trump has canceled much regulation on the basis of how it was implemented, not what it is. Laws should go back to legislation for clarification. With new judges and understanding the rules, the job is now ours to stand up to over reaching legislation.
I agree. Talk of overhauling the Constitution on this scale scares the hell out of me. Be careful what you wish for.
I agree entirely, Optimist. As the late, great Joe Sobran liked to point out, the Constitution poses no threat whatsoever to our current form of government. While I enjoy Mark Levin’s explanations of how and why a CoS would work, alas it’s no more than an interesting intellectual exercise.
It’s not the same Constitution that the 13 colonies made. The Republican-Democrat war amendments centralized power in Washington to outlaw slavery and discrimination. The Income tax has made slaves out of everybody and the direct voting of Senators has made even the existence of the Senate itself pointless. Repealing those alone would be worth the price of admission.
You are correct of course but IMO this thread is pointless as the OPs concern has been addressed so many times over posting it again appears more like trolling than an attempt at serious discussion.
A COS should absolutely be avoided.
Scope and scale are an issue for the attendees. The purpose of the Convention of States is for the people to regain and retain their government; to snatch it back from those who have subverted this grand experiment.
Passage of a PROPOSED Amendment at CoS does NOT guarantee it’s adoption by the nation at large as all that issue from CoS must still be ratified, in the manner prescribed in the Constitution.
There are a number of valid concerns, IMO, that could be addressed in CoS:
1. Balanced Budget amendment, with NARROW allowance for deficits.
2. Definition of NATURAL BORN CITIZEN spelled out; progeny of one or two US Citizens, birth anywhere in the world; address ‘anchor baby’ issue.
3. Term Limits for House (4 terms), and Senate (2 terms).
4. Define Presidential Electoral Votes to be cast by Congressional District, for the popular vote winner in the district, and one for each Senator, cast by the popular vote in the State.
And likely a couple more, perhaps.
Not trolling. Look how long I have been a member.
I have undoubtedly missed previous postings on the subject. In fact, I thought I was all-in on the original premise .... not afraid of a “runaway convention”.
However as each state legislature approves a COS, the “magic bullet” concept seems to be in doubt (as a previous poster replied).
If precisionshootist doesn’t want to have a serious discussion, that’s not my problem. I would actually like to have the case made that it can accomplish what is intended. If it turns stupid I can ask the mod to lock the thread.
Or we can just not post to it, if there is nothing to add.
Amendments coming from a COS will likely take generations to be effective, just as it took generations to see how the 17th gave Arizona senators like McCain and Flake.
The most important Amendments would reign in spending and the judiciary.
I support the COS path because it’s clear the DC swamp will not cleanse itself. The states need to either step up to the plate or surrender our once free republic.
It’s not the same Constitution that the 13 colonies made. The Republican-Democrat war amendments centralized power in Washington to outlaw slavery and discrimination. The Income tax has made slaves out of everybody and the direct voting of Senators has made even the existence of the Senate itself pointless.
Repealing those alone would be worth the price of admission.
BEARS REPEATING!
I’m going to get out of here and let this thread go where it may and hopefully someone can respond with information that you may not have seen or just missed.
Interesting.
(courtesy ping)
“It appears, however, that the issue is not the constitution, but rather ADHERENCE to the constitution.”
Yep, I agree. You can’t fix a document that is not even used by the Left - change it all you want and nothing in this country will change.
You have to DEFEAT THE LEFT first, and then go back and look at cleaning up the Constitution - so that their horrible stench may never rise again.
A COS needs to remove spending authority from Congress and return it to the taxpayer. As presently structured, congress is institutionally incapable of fiscal restraint.
I do not know how to achieve this, but this spending of trillions of dollars we do not have will cost the nation dearly in the future and has to be reversed. Presently, the congress has little or no incentive for fiscal responsibility, and on the contrary, grow their power via spending money and taking us further into debt, be those money sources be tax revenue, borrowing, or printing, the latter two of which are merely taxes by other names.
“(term limits? return to the original election of senators by state legislatures? just for example) the real issue is that the constitution is NOT followed by either those elected to serve and protect it nor those appointed to justify the laws based upon it.”
The established Republicans and Democrats will never propose amendments that don’t favor them retaining power. I doubt if a Concon would generate enough support from blue states to pass anything to help we the people and could it be subverted to eliminate something like the 2nd amendment?
Socialist office-holders will just demand strict adherence to any Constitutional updates they like while continuing to ignore the parts they don’t like. Until a respect for the document and the legal precedents based on it is restored, changes will be futile.
The best way to restrain spending is to pass/ratify an amendment to the US constitution which requires Congress to keep spending to a level at or below revenue (with an exception provision which would allow temporary deviation in case of national emergency).
States have shown that such a requirement can be done. There is no valid reason (other than the national emergency provision) the federal government cannot do the same.
Congress will not restrain themselves in this area. The people will have to force the issue and a COS is the way to do it, imo.
How’s that Revolutionary War saying go?
“Is it better to be ruled by 3000 tyrants a mile away, or 1 tyrant 3000 miles away?”
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